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Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices'

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From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices'
Date 13 Mar 2015 14:00:55 GMT
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
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On 2015-03-13, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> Don Bruder:
>> Unfortunately, there's no way to *REALLY* know if such a hole exists, in 
>> whatever cryptosystem is being discussed, or if it does, if it's been 
>> discovered (or perhaps even installed...) by the TLAs. Anybody who 
>> thinks the TLAs would admit they know of such a hole is a fool. Anybody 
>> who thinks they wouldn't exploit it if they could is even more a fool. 
>> But since it's all we've got at the moment, you either have to trust it 
>> (however reluctantly) or leave your secrets "in the clear".
>
>> Either that, or build a new tinfoil hat and hope for the best...
>
> The Intelligence Community (IC) does what is required of it by law. For
> an agency to admit this or that would be a violation of the espionage
> laws. Not going to happen.

It's a good thing we have people like Snowden who are willing to open
things up a bit so the average American citizen can be aware of the abuse
that is happening right under our noses.

> I don't know why it is so difficult for people to understand that the
> NSA is not looking for, or reading, the communications of the average
> American or ally.

The fact is their dragnet includes most average American communications.
And the way they link people's communications to each other to make
associations allows them to gather the records of thousands of
individual Americans when they target just one. For instance, if the
person they target happened to call a business that you happened to have
called, BINGO, your communications are automatically in the net as well.
And there are few real limits to what agents can do with the troves of
information they have on hand. The potential for abuse is vast, and
there are few checks and balances beyond the "you'll just have to trust
us" kind. Agents have been caught (mostly because they had guilty
consciences and came clean, or were so brazen about it they blabbed to
others) reading communications of average citizens:

<http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/23/nsa-officers-sometimes-spy-on-love-interests/>

> SIGINT collection and processing are incredibly labor intensive, and
> there are never enough people, especially those skilled in the hard
> languages, to cover the legitimate targets.

There are also not enough people to monitor them to make sure they aren't
abusing their power, which is the real problem.

> Anyone who thinks they have the time, the inclination, or the mandate
> to entertain themselves with John Q. Public's personal communications
> is delusional and really does need that tinfoil hat.

Anyone who thinks that human beings won't abuse their power hasn't
learned one of life's great lessons. Human beings with this much power
need proper supervision, and without it, and with this many human beings
being handed this much power, what we already know is abuse of that
power is probable and has happened. Yet we are told we should just trust
the very people abusing their power.

> I would sincerely hope that there are no publicly available cipher
> systems that the IC cannot read. That would do nothing to protect the
> average citizen because the average citizen does not need such
> protection, but it would be a boon to the enemies of civilization.

If encryption can be broken by the TLAs, it can be broken by others who
have the ability to invest the time and energy into breaking it for
whatever nefarious purposes they have in mind. And if the TLAs keep
these security holes to themselves, those holes are left gaping open for
others to use for whatever nefarious purposes they wish, with the
average American non the wiser, which means *anything* relying on that
encryption is available to *anyone* with the means to exploit it for
their own gain. That is the opposite of ensuring our security.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-10 17:48 +0000
  Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2015-03-10 16:57 -0700
    Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-10 18:07 -0700
      Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-03-10 18:26 -0700
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-10 18:31 -0700
          Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-03-10 21:41 -0700
            Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-03-12 01:54 -0400
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-03-12 06:49 -0700
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-12 08:43 -0700
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-12 19:03 -0400
          Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-12 13:22 -0700
            Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-12 22:30 +0000
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-12 23:04 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-13 01:28 +0000
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-13 01:28 +0000
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-13 01:56 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 02:12 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-03-12 20:14 -0700
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-03-13 00:30 -0400
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-13 09:11 -0400
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 14:00 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-13 16:17 -0400
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 21:06 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-14 14:02 -0400
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-14 19:48 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-14 17:02 -0400
      Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2015-03-10 21:12 -0700
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2015-03-16 08:44 -0700
  Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-12 19:49 -0500
    Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 01:14 +0000
      Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Leonard Oglesby <email@domain.com> - 2015-03-12 21:49 -0700
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-03-13 01:58 -0400
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 14:02 +0000
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-13 18:43 -0500
    Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Me, myself and I <baiheli.pip.li@xs4all.nl> - 2015-03-13 08:14 +0100
      Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 14:03 +0000
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-13 07:27 -0700
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Me, myself and I <baiheli.pip.li@xs4all.nl> - 2015-03-13 15:55 +0100
          Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 15:11 +0000
            Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Me, myself and I <baiheli.pip.li@xs4all.nl> - 2015-03-14 12:38 +0100
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-14 12:46 +0000
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2015-03-14 23:01 -0700
                Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2015-03-16 08:53 -0700
              Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-14 16:01 +0000
          Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-13 12:20 -0400
            Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-13 16:36 +0000
      Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-13 17:25 +0000
        Re: CIA 'tried to crack security of Apple devices' tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.org> - 2015-03-16 12:36 -0700

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