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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #56814

Re: Can't Eject a Volume

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On 2014-02-21, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <bmpmthF3of8U1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >> To expand on this, force quitting an application can cause any file that
>> >> the application currently has open to become corrupt, since it does not
>> >> give the application a chance to finish updating the file in question
>> >> and close it before quitting. Applications may have their own preference
>> >> files open, or other files on your startup volume. If an application's
>> >> preference file becomes malformed or corrupt, it can cause the
>> >> application in question to behave in unpredictable ways on subsequent
>> >> launches.
>> >
>> > that's possible, but very unlikely because files are written atomically.
>> 
>> mr.know-it-all won't be able to provide evidence that all (or even most)
>> files are written atomically by all applications. The fact is that
>> application developers may choose keep files open for relatively long
>> periods of time, and whether an application has a file open, or has
>> completed writing to that file, at any point in time cannot be predicted
>> ahead of time.
>
> developers could do a lot of things. that doesn't mean they do.
>
> the vast majority of developers are not stupid and write files
> atomically because they know that's the safest way to do it. 

Just as I predicted, mr.know-it-all can't produce a shred of proof of
his asinine assertion. No surprise. As an actual professional software
developer, I have seen with my own eyes quite a large number of both
lazy and even well-meaning developers fail to follow best practices a
large portion of the time. I've even observed this in code written by
Apple developers. I've also seen with my own eyes application preference
files becoming malformed due to force quitting in the past. So it's only
natural that I question mr.know-it-all's silly assertion that file
corruption due to force quitting applications is very unlikely. Notice
how he still is unable to offer proof of his assertion. I'm still
waiting, but I won't wait forever.

> not only that, but just because a file is open when an app is
> force-quit does mean it will be corrupted. a force-quit is typically
> done *after* an app has crashed, so the damage, if any, has already
> happened. 

Now mr.know-it-all is trying to move the goal posts, and suggesting that
typically force quitting is only done after applications have crashed,
(which is rather silly, considering an application that has crashed
*can't* be quit because it's no longer running - the very definition of
a crash). Ludicrous! But he'll keep digging the hole deeper, because he
simply cannot admit he is wrong - ever. He would love us to ignore that
he hasn't yet produced a single shred of proof of his original assertion
by distracting us with yet another hair-brained assertion. He's a silly
weasel, that's for sure!

> if this was a huge problem, we'd be hearing about data loss when people
> force-quit apps, and we don't, therefore it's not a serious issue.

Straw man. Nobody in this thread suggested there was a huge problem.
Nice try, weasel. Keep digging!

> real world experience is what matters.

As a professional software developer, I have enough real-world
experience to say with confidence that applications can and do keep
files open while running, and force quitting those applications can
result in malformed or incomplete data in said filed. Anyone disputing
this clearly doesn't know much about the reality of software
development. But mr.know-it-all thinks he knows better than every other
human being on planet Earth. And he'll continue to argue about this
until we get bored with his shenanigans. Then he'll take our lack of
participation in his petty argument as a sign that he has somehow won
the argument. Sad.

>> Now I predict mr.know-it-all will try to move the goal posts, which is
>> typical of his silly tit-for-tat arguments...
>
> i'm not the one who is moving the goalposts. 
>
>> >> > Force quitting an app like the Finder where you are never sure of the
>> >> > state it is in is absolutely to be avoided.
>> >> 
>> >> I'm not sure I would consider Finder to be that fragile - certainly not
>> >> as fragile as other applications or system processes.
>> >
>> > nonsense. finder is one of the buggiest parts of os x and apple has
>> > shown no interest in fixing it.
>> 
>> Now he's trying to move the goal posts yet again. He ignores that we are
>> talking specifically about files open by the Finder. Now he's trying to
>> change the topic to general Finder bugs. Lame. That's not what we are
>> discussing here. Nice try, but no cigar, mr.know-it-all.
>
> actually it is what is being discussed. 
>
> or have you already forgotten that *you* said finder was not fragile? 
>
> typical for you, when facts are shoved in your face, you get all bent
> out of shape.

DING DING DING! Straw man again! mr.know-it-all bullheadedly continues
insisting that we were talking about Finder bugs in general when it's
clear as day that my statement, in context with the entirety of this
thread, is about force quitting Finder and resulting file
malformation/corruption. He has to do this, because he knows he has no
valid argument about the topic at hand.  So he tries to change the topic
of discussion. Lame. Keep digging, you silly weasel boy!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Thread

Can't Eject a Volume nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid (Nick Naym) - 2014-02-18 14:32 -0500
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-18 14:48 -0500
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume billy@MIX.COM - 2014-02-18 19:52 +0000
    Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-02-22 12:05 -0800
      Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 21:25 +0000
        Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-02-22 21:03 -0800
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-18 20:13 +0000
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Ralph <alan.ralph@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 20:18 +0000
    Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-20 15:13 +0000
      Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Ralph <alan.ralph@gmail.com> - 2014-02-20 21:07 +0000
        Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 21:52 +0000
          Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 06:27 -0500
            Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-21 16:53 +0000
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 13:07 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 12:38 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 21:24 +0000
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-21 22:51 +0000
        Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-21 01:35 +0000
          Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 06:27 -0500
          Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-21 17:02 +0000
            Re: Can't Eject a Volume Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-02-21 17:10 +0000
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-21 17:21 +0000
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 13:07 -0500
            Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 13:07 -0500
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-21 19:14 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-21 14:49 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-21 22:13 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 00:29 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 16:59 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-02-25 16:49 +1100
              Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-21 18:28 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-22 00:29 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 10:02 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 10:22 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 17:01 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 12:13 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 17:16 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-22 12:34 -0500
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 21:23 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 21:46 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-22 21:53 +0000
                Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 17:00 +0000
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2014-02-18 20:37 -0500
    Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-19 02:13 +0000
      Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-18 21:42 -0500
        Re: Can't Eject a Volume Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-19 04:21 +0000
          Re: Can't Eject a Volume nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-18 23:35 -0500
  Re: Can't Eject a Volume Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-20 15:13 +0000

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