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  MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-16 10:13 +0000
    Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-17 09:50 +1100
      Re: MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 00:19 +0000
        Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-18 11:37 +1100
        Re: MailForge dead "R. Millstein" <usenet@spamaway.rlm.net> - 2014-01-18 15:06 -0800
          Re: MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-18 23:43 +0000
            Re: MailForge dead "R. Millstein" <usenet@spamaway.rlm.net> - 2014-01-18 16:45 -0800
            Re: MailForge dead Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-01-18 20:31 -0500
              Re: MailForge dead "R. Millstein" <usenet@spamaway.rlm.net> - 2014-01-19 09:33 -0800
            Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-20 15:45 +1100
              Re: MailForge dead Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 08:56 +0000
                Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-23 01:42 +1100
                  Re: MailForge dead Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 15:23 +0000
                    Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-23 09:56 +1100
                  Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 16:26 +0000
                    Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-23 10:02 +1100
                      Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 23:19 +0000
                Re: MailForge dead richgr@panix.com (Rich Greenberg) - 2014-01-23 20:03 +0000
                Re: MailForge dead Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-23 18:19 -0500
                Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-06-18 15:55 +1000
                  Re: MailForge dead Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-18 19:53 -0700
                    Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 02:58 +0000
                      Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 03:14 +0000
                      Re: MailForge dead Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-18 22:45 -0700
                        Re: MailForge dead billy@MIX.COM - 2014-06-19 10:34 +0000
                          Re: MailForge dead Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-19 21:18 -0700
                            Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:13 +0000
                        Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-19 16:02 +0000
                          Re: MailForge dead Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-06-19 21:20 -0700
                            Re: MailForge dead Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-06-20 16:15 +0000
        Re: MailForge dead cvb@compuserve.com - 2014-01-31 00:56 -0800
          Re: MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-31 10:08 +0000
      Re: MailForge dead peter@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) - 2014-01-17 07:23 +0000
        Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-18 11:50 +1100
          Re: MailForge dead David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> - 2014-01-18 11:52 +1100
          Re: MailForge dead peter@cara.demon.co.uk (Peter Ceresole) - 2014-01-19 10:39 +0000
          Re: MailForge dead kmorgan@spamcop.net (Kathy Morgan) - 2014-01-21 13:57 -0900
        Re: MailForge dead kmorgan@spamcop.net (Kathy Morgan) - 2014-01-21 13:57 -0900
        Re: MailForge dead Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-01-31 10:33 +0100
          Re: MailForge dead Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-31 12:37 +0000
            Re: MailForge dead Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-01-31 21:16 +0100
              Re: MailForge dead Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-01 17:02 +0000
                Re: MailForge dead Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-02 00:12 +0100
      Re: MailForge dead dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com (Hauke Fath) - 2014-01-17 14:37 +0100
        Re: MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 15:21 +0000
          Re: MailForge dead dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com (Hauke Fath) - 2014-01-17 19:03 +0100
            Re: MailForge dead Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 18:59 +0000
              Re: MailForge dead dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2014-01-18 10:48 +0000
                Re: MailForge dead Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-18 13:12 -0800
                  Re: MailForge dead nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:45 -0500
                    Re: MailForge dead snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk (Sn!pe) - 2014-02-03 22:46 +0000

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#20853

Lewis wrote:

> In message <e77sra-dfd1.ln1@news.chingola.ch> 
>   Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> I had a devil of a job with Apple Mail late last year.  I'm sure it
>> wasn't always like this but when I add a new email, if it sees that it's
>> the same domain as an existing email address it uses the outgoing
>> username and password of that address, not the new one.
>
>> As it happened, at first my ISP wasn't checking that the outgoing
>> address matched the username/password combination.  When
>> they tightened that up I suddenly couldn't post from a load of those
>> addresses.
>
> Your ISP is run by morons. There is absolutely no reason to require that
> the outgoing address match the authenticated user.
>
> Get a new ISP. Oh, and never use your ISPs email servers anyway.

I've just revisited my notes on that and I realise I described it badly.

It was my hosting ISP, not the one I used to connect to the outside
world from home.  It's all history now because I shifted to another
supplier some time ago.

>> Yes you can go into the outgoing SMTP server settings and add a new
>> entry but it's a lousy user interface.  When you have a dozen or so
>> addresses to set up it is a real pain in the neck-
>
> The problem is not Mail.app nor Apple, the problem is the dumbasses you
> allow to handle your mail.

Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
outgoing SMTP servers is too small.  Here's an example I found on the
web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
username.

<http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>

-- 
If you make it well enough, you give it immortality.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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#20857

In message <itctra-sk92.ln1@news.chingola.ch> 
  Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:

>> In message <e77sra-dfd1.ln1@news.chingola.ch> 
>>   Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a devil of a job with Apple Mail late last year.  I'm sure it
>>> wasn't always like this but when I add a new email, if it sees that it's
>>> the same domain as an existing email address it uses the outgoing
>>> username and password of that address, not the new one.
>>
>>> As it happened, at first my ISP wasn't checking that the outgoing
>>> address matched the username/password combination.  When
>>> they tightened that up I suddenly couldn't post from a load of those
>>> addresses.
>>
>> Your ISP is run by morons. There is absolutely no reason to require that
>> the outgoing address match the authenticated user.
>>
>> Get a new ISP. Oh, and never use your ISPs email servers anyway.

> I've just revisited my notes on that and I realise I described it badly.

> It was my hosting ISP, not the one I used to connect to the outside
> world from home.  It's all history now because I shifted to another
> supplier some time ago.

>>> Yes you can go into the outgoing SMTP server settings and add a new
>>> entry but it's a lousy user interface.  When you have a dozen or so
>>> addresses to set up it is a real pain in the neck-
>>
>> The problem is not Mail.app nor Apple, the problem is the dumbasses you
>> allow to handle your mail.

> Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
> outgoing SMTP servers is too small.  Here's an example I found on the
> web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
> username.

> <http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>

But you can set the Label of the SMTP server to anything you want. Mine
are "iCloud" "Gmail" "Work".

-- 
Oh, he's just like any other man, only more so.

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#20859

Lewis wrote:

> In message <itctra-sk92.ln1@news.chingola.ch> 
>   Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
>> outgoing SMTP servers is too small.  Here's an example I found on the
>> web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
>> username.
>
>> <http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>
>
> But you can set the Label of the SMTP server to anything you want. Mine
> are "iCloud" "Gmail" "Work".

Many thanks.  I hadn't spotted that.

-- 
If you make it well enough, you give it immortality.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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#20465

[f'up2 csma]

David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> wrote:

> I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
> of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
> to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but 
> frustrating in so many ways.

You might want to look at GyazMail <http://gyazsquare.com/gyazmail/>,
which I overall found closest to Eudora and have been using for about a
year now. Lean, and rock stable.

hauke


-- 
Now without signature.

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#20467

In article <1lfmgi9.ikvq37a0hxiN%dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com>,
Hauke Fath <dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com> wrote:

> David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> wrote:
> 
> > I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
> > of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
> > to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> > virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but 
> > frustrating in so many ways.
> 
> You might want to look at GyazMail <http://gyazsquare.com/gyazmail/>,
> which I overall found closest to Eudora and have been using for about a
> year now. Lean, and rock stable.

I composed a mail, clicked "Send later", and my mail vanished, never to
be seen again. It did ask whether I wanted it saved as a draft, but I
can't find it now.

They also call everything a folder, which is misleading. There should
be a distinction between mailboxes and folders.

They don't appear to distinguish between inline and non-inline
attachments. So a message with the former is flagged as having
attachments - but you can't save them.

No Fcc: feature.

No "Who" column, so if I move a mail from Sent to another mailbox, it
shows me as the sender rather than the recipient's name. And no styling
on the mail that I moved from Sent, to highlight that it was a mail I
sent rather than received (this is a bit odd, as they do style Junk
mail).

Mails being composed are in a separate window, as are mails you
double-click, so we end up with lots of windows just asking to get
lost. These should all be in *one* window under different tabs.

Ah, I see. There is apparently no "queueing" of mail, just a chance to
save it for later. Trying again, oops, pressed "Send later" and my mail
vanished again.


Hmmm. Like a lot of these mail client offerings - lacking usability
features.

-- 
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
 lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores 
 the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
 into it in the first place."                             - Douglas Adams

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#20472

Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> I composed a mail, clicked "Send later", and my mail vanished, never to
> be seen again. It did ask whether I wanted it saved as a draft, but I
> can't find it now.

Saved in a "Drafts" folder, I guess; the name is configurable. 

> They also call everything a folder, which is misleading. There should
> be a distinction between mailboxes and folders.

This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
that save each mail in its own file.

The folder list representation distinguishes clearly between nodes and
leaves, though.
 
> They don't appear to distinguish between inline and non-inline
> attachments. So a message with the former is flagged as having
> attachments - but you can't save them.

ISTR that Eudora inlines text attachments, so behaves similar.
 
> No Fcc: feature.

"'FCC'
    The name of a file, to which a copy of the sent message should be
appended."
<http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mail-Headers.h
tml>

-- rather obscure, no? Haven't used or missed this one in 20 years of
email... what I did is create a rule that copies all outgoing mail to a
mailbox, same as in Eudora, at least if you want your Outbox on the IMAP
server.
 
[...]

> Mails being composed are in a separate window, as are mails you
> double-click, so we end up with lots of windows just asking to get
> lost. These should all be in *one* window under different tabs.

That's... debatable. In fact, one reason why I stuck with Eudora for so
long is its multi-window mode. Tabs don't scale.
 
> Ah, I see. There is apparently no "queueing" of mail, just a chance to
> save it for later. 

Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
mail folders.

> Trying again, oops, pressed "Send later" and my mail
> vanished again.

You might check your Drafts folder? I don't know what happens when you
don't configure one. GyazMail should complain, I guess.

> Hmmm. Like a lot of these mail client offerings - lacking usability
> features.

While I have a list of issues myself that I'd like to see added to
GyazMail or changed (and will eventually send to the author), I found
the mailer quite complete.

YMMV, as always.

hauke

-- 
Now without signature.

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#20474

In article <1lfmryf.ipgjhnrumfuoN%dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com>,
Hauke Fath <dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> > I composed a mail, clicked "Send later", and my mail vanished, never to
> > be seen again. It did ask whether I wanted it saved as a draft, but I
> > can't find it now.
> 
> Saved in a "Drafts" folder, I guess; the name is configurable. 

Haven't got one. That is, in any case, another minus point. I want a
single Out mailbox, not Drafts, Sent, Might-be-thinking-about-sending,
etc.

> > They also call everything a folder, which is misleading. There should
> > be a distinction between mailboxes and folders.
> 
> This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
> IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
> that save each mail in its own file.

If it's IMAP I'm definitely not interested.

> The folder list representation distinguishes clearly between nodes and
> leaves, though.
>  
> > They don't appear to distinguish between inline and non-inline
> > attachments. So a message with the former is flagged as having
> > attachments - but you can't save them.
> 
> ISTR that Eudora inlines text attachments, so behaves similar.
>  
> > No Fcc: feature.
> 
> "'FCC'
>     The name of a file, to which a copy of the sent message should be
> appended."
> <http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mail-Headers.h
> tml>
> 
> -- rather obscure, no? Haven't used or missed this one in 20 years of
> email... what I did is create a rule that copies all outgoing mail to a
> mailbox, same as in Eudora, at least if you want your Outbox on the IMAP
> server.

Someone else's documentation is nothing to do with me. Fcc: lists a
mailbox where a copy of an outbound mail will be placed. Simples.

My work was always project based, and it could easily be that a reply
to an individual covered items related to more than one project. As I
kept all mails relating to a project in a mailbox named for the
project, the Fcc: feature allowed me to get copies of an outbound mail
into more than one mailbox.

> [...]
> 
> > Mails being composed are in a separate window, as are mails you
> > double-click, so we end up with lots of windows just asking to get
> > lost. These should all be in *one* window under different tabs.
> 
> That's... debatable. In fact, one reason why I stuck with Eudora for so
> long is its multi-window mode. Tabs don't scale.

Ultimately, nothing scales. But tabs scale a lot better than multiple
windows. Lessee now, I have 13 tabs open ATM. If I do a search or
modify filters or compose a mail or two, that will go up. One window
for all this suits me fine; having 15 or so would not.

At work, I did all my development and network monitoring on a MacPro
with a number of screens. For mail, however, I kept a klunky XP laptop
because Eudora-Win allowed tabs whereas Eudora-Mac doesn't.

> > Ah, I see. There is apparently no "queueing" of mail, just a chance to
> > save it for later. 
> 
> Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
> mail folders.

Sure it does. I might not want the mail to actually be sent until some
later time.

> > Trying again, oops, pressed "Send later" and my mail
> > vanished again.
> 
> You might check your Drafts folder? I don't know what happens when you
> don't configure one. GyazMail should complain, I guess.
> 
> > Hmmm. Like a lot of these mail client offerings - lacking usability
> > features.
> 
> While I have a list of issues myself that I'd like to see added to
> GyazMail or changed (and will eventually send to the author), I found
> the mailer quite complete.
> 
> YMMV, as always.
> 
> hauke

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#20485

Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <1lfmryf.ipgjhnrumfuoN%dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com>,
> Hauke Fath <dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com> wrote:

> > This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
> > IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
> > that save each mail in its own file.
> 
> If it's IMAP I'm definitely not interested.

YMMV very much here. I had to use IMAP for college mail, no choice. 

> > Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
> > mail folders.
> 
> Sure it does. I might not want the mail to actually be sent until some
> later time.

I agree. Plus one might be offline, problems with mail server, etc

I think one can set up local folders for Drafts, Queued, and any other
folders one wants.

I tried Gyazmail and there was always an issue around Drafts, I got an
error message, and the developer never did anything about it. Come to
think of it, college have changed their email system and I might try
again. 

Currently I am using Postbox, which works ok. I liked Gyazmail better,
but I doubt if there is enough reason to pay for another program.

-- 
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives 
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.

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#20491

In article <1lfnvnk.5kdc3iuc7jsN%dcohenspam@talktalk.net>,
 dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) wrote:

> Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1lfmryf.ipgjhnrumfuoN%dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com>,
> > Hauke Fath <dont.spam.usenet@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
> > > IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
> > > that save each mail in its own file.
> > 
> > If it's IMAP I'm definitely not interested.
> 
> YMMV very much here. I had to use IMAP for college mail, no choice. 
> 
> > > Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
> > > mail folders.
> > 
> > Sure it does. I might not want the mail to actually be sent until some
> > later time.
> 
> I agree. Plus one might be offline, problems with mail server, etc
> 
> I think one can set up local folders for Drafts, Queued, and any other
> folders one wants.
> 
> I tried Gyazmail and there was always an issue around Drafts, I got an
> error message, and the developer never did anything about it. Come to
> think of it, college have changed their email system and I might try
> again. 
> 
> Currently I am using Postbox, which works ok. I liked Gyazmail better,
> but I doubt if there is enough reason to pay for another program.

In contrast, Sparrow, which still works on MacOS even thought it was 
bought by Google, ONLY uses IMAP, which was why I threw it out within 5 
minutes of using it.

The space for mail clients is sadly very limited. There's a LOT of work 
that goes into making one that's functional and deals with attachments, 
spam, IMAP, POP, and works on multiple versions of various platforms.

I used Thunderbird when I was stuck on a Linux box for a couple weeks. 
It was OK. Everyone has their own version of "I'll never use THAT".  
Well, now there's one less of THAT.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#20494

In article <vilain-D0ECB3.13122618012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In contrast, Sparrow, which still works on MacOS even thought it was 
> bought by Google, ONLY uses IMAP, which was why I threw it out within 5 
> minutes of using it.

why do you not like imap? it's much better than pop and can do
everything pop can do and more.

> The space for mail clients is sadly very limited. There's a LOT of work 
> that goes into making one that's functional and deals with attachments, 
> spam, IMAP, POP, and works on multiple versions of various platforms.

yes there is, which is why they all have problems in one way or another.

i picked apple mail because it sucked the least out of everything i
tried, and i tried quite a few. one reason was that the company that
made it isn't going to suddenly discontinue it. 

> I used Thunderbird when I was stuck on a Linux box for a couple weeks. 
> It was OK. Everyone has their own version of "I'll never use THAT".  
> Well, now there's one less of THAT.

thunderbird's interface makes using pine look good.

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#20882

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <vilain-D0ECB3.13122618012014@news.individual.net>, Michael
> Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> > In contrast, Sparrow, which still works on MacOS even thought it was
> > bought by Google, ONLY uses IMAP, which was why I threw it out within 5
> > minutes of using it.
> 
> why do you not like imap? it's much better than pop and can do
> everything pop can do and more.

[...]

I too would like to know the reason for discarding IMAP. 
(genuine question)

-- 
^Ï^.      Sn!pe      <snipe@notforspam.fsnet.co.uk> 
 
My pet rock Gordon just is. 
 

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