Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #28976 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:45 -0400
Articles	20 on this page of 393 — 26 participants

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#29244

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 15:04 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkirfFg4haU24@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29232

On 2015-04-20, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <cpkh0eFg4haU10@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> There is no such thing as File > Save > File Format > {other formats}!
>
> Actually, in the Save As dialog for Rich Text documents there is a File
> Format popup that allows you to save as a Rich Text document, HTML
> file, various MS Word documents, etc.  That is what he is referring to.

While that's true, he's still missing the entire concept of the Format
menu command!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29023

From	dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)
Date	2015-04-20 14:58 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36mic.1tmh537z93w6cN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
In reply to	#29019

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> 190420152233070791nospamospam@nospam.invalid
> 
> >> And that saves an ASCII text file?
> > 
> > if you set the app to text it does.
> > 
> > are you even reading what people write??
> 
> Everyone says that TextEdit can save ASCII text.
> I'm fine with that.
> 
> If someone could just answer this question, we'd be done with this thread.

They already did, at least three or four times.

TextEdit defaults to Rich Text Format for new documents. You can change
its default for new documents to Plain Text, but you probably don't want
to fiddle with preferences as it isn't your Mac.

Once you have a new document window, you can change the mode for that
document without affecting the application default, by clicking on the
Format menu and choosing Make Plain Text (or Make Rich Text to go back
to rich mode again).

Once you have the document in plain text mode, you can save a plain text
file using File > Save. (The Save As dialog then offers a choice of
various plain text formats, including UTF-16, UTF-8 and various 8-bit
options with different character sets.)

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#29050

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 03:56 +0000
Message-ID	<mh1tcl$i5o$6@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29023

dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote in message
1m36mic.1tmh537z93w6cNMon, 20 Apr 2015 14:58:00 +1200empson@actrix.gen.nz

> They already did, at least three or four times.

Actually, only nospam mentioned that it was in the preferences and not in
the Save As dialog box, which, when I saw that, I changed it for the user 
(which may or may not be a good thing if it didn't just *add* the option).

Only after I had changed it, did Jolly Roger mention the same steps.

Nobody else (IIRC) mentioned that you have to unhide a hidden option, just
to get the default text editor to save as ASCII text.

There may be a downside to this though, which is that it may be that the 
default text editor, when allowed to save as ASCII text, may be disabled
from saving in any other format (which would be idiotic - but I'll have
to check when I have access to the Macintosh again tomorrow).

> TextEdit defaults to Rich Text Format for new documents. You can change
> its default for new documents to Plain Text, but you probably don't want
> to fiddle with preferences as it isn't your Mac.

I only belatedly realized, from something nospam said, that by adding
the option to save ASCII text, may have concurrently *disabled* the option
to "Save As", which would be a dumb thing, IMHO, if Apple set things up
that way. I'll have to check tomorrow - and - if that's the case, I'll
have to re-hide the hidden option.

But, if that's the case, it'd plain dumb because that means you can do
one or the other, by flipping a few switches, but that would mean there
simply isn't a Save As dialog that includes both.

I'll have to check tomorrow if that's the case.

> Once you have a new document window, you can change the mode for that
> document without affecting the application default, by clicking on the
> Format menu and choosing Make Plain Text (or Make Rich Text to go back
> to rich mode again).

That's a very odd way to do it, if I understand you correctly.
You save as the wrong format, and then you format the wrong format to the 
right format?

But, interestingly, if what nospam intimated is correct (that you can't
save as ASCII text *or* something else), then that oddball method may be 
the best method I can offer this Macintosh user. 

> Once you have the document in plain text mode, you can save a plain text
> file using File > Save. (The Save As dialog then offers a choice of
> various plain text formats, including UTF-16, UTF-8 and various 8-bit
> options with different character sets.)

Oh oh. That's bad news. That's what nospam intimated. So, if I understand
you correctly, this user can't save ASCII text and still have the option 
to save as the other formats. That's bad. Very bad. (dumb actually).

So, that means that tomorrow, I'll have to unset the option I set for
this Macintosh user, and then tell the user that they have to save first
into the wrong format, and then format into the right format (I'll have
to test if ASCII text is one of the available right formats though).

I'll test this tomorrow and report back - but this is sure way (way way)
more complex than it needs to be.

It should be as simple as "Save As" having the choice of "ASCII text" as
one of the options (along with the others).

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#29057

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:19 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjd3dF7dq8U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29050

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote in message
> 1m36mic.1tmh537z93w6cNMon, 20 Apr 2015 14:58:00 +1200empson@actrix.gen.nz
>
>> They already did, at least three or four times.
>
> Actually, only nospam mentioned that it was in the preferences and not in
> the Save As dialog box, which, when I saw that, I changed it for the user 
> (which may or may not be a good thing if it didn't just *add* the option).
>
> Only after I had changed it, did Jolly Roger mention the same steps.

No, I mentioned another much simpler way, and you flatly ignored it,
because you want to troll.

> Nobody else (IIRC) mentioned that you have to unhide a hidden option, just
> to get the default text editor to save as ASCII text.

Wrong. As I already told you, all you have to do is choose Format > Make
Plain Text before saving. No preferences need to be changed.

>> Once you have a new document window, you can change the mode for that
>> document without affecting the application default, by clicking on the
>> Format menu and choosing Make Plain Text (or Make Rich Text to go back
>> to rich mode again).
>
> That's a very odd way to do it, if I understand you correctly.
> You save as the wrong format, and then you format the wrong format to the 
> right format?

No, idiot. You create a new document, type some text, choose Format >
Make Plain Text (or Format > Make Rich Text if you wish) and then save
it. Only one save. Simple.

> But, interestingly, if what nospam intimated is correct (that you can't
> save as ASCII text *or* something else), then that oddball method may be 
> the best method I can offer this Macintosh user. 

He said no such thing, and you are wrong.

>> Once you have the document in plain text mode, you can save a plain text
>> file using File > Save. (The Save As dialog then offers a choice of
>> various plain text formats, including UTF-16, UTF-8 and various 8-bit
>> options with different character sets.)
>
> Oh oh. That's bad news. That's what nospam intimated. So, if I understand
> you correctly, this user can't save ASCII text and still have the option 
> to save as the other formats. That's bad. Very bad. (dumb actually).

Wrong. You can change the format to plain or rich text any time you want
and save the document accordingly.

> So, that means that tomorrow, I'll have to unset the option I set for
> this Macintosh user, and then tell the user that they have to save first
> into the wrong format, and then format into the right format (I'll have
> to test if ASCII text is one of the available right formats though).

You shouldn't have changed his preferences to begin with since it's not
your computer. If you had bothered to read my instructions, you'd have
known that simply choosing Format > Make Plain Text was all that you
needed to do before saving the document.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29075

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:43 +0000
Message-ID	<mh2053$i5o$10@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29057

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpjd3dF7dq8U6@mid.individual.net

> No, I mentioned another much simpler way, and you flatly ignored it,
> because you want to troll.

I think I *belatedly* understand the highly unintuitive use model that 
Mac users apparently endure in order to have both the option of saving 
to ASCII text and the option of Saving As other formats, at the same 
time, from the default text editor.

These Mac users either:
a. Temporarily save to the wrong format, and then convert the file to 
   the desired format, or, the Mac users...
b. Temporarily unhide the "Save To ASCII" option in the preferences, 
   then they save the file to ASCII, and then they re-hide the ASCII 
   option in the preferences.

Those are the *only* two ways that have been suggested for using the 
default text editor. Of those two methods, yes, I agree with you.

Option (a) is clearly simpler than option (b).

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#29080

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:48 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjeorF7dq8U13@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29075

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
> cpjd3dF7dq8U6@mid.individual.net
>
>> No, I mentioned another much simpler way, and you flatly ignored it,
>> because you want to troll.
>
> I think I *belatedly* understand the highly unintuitive use model that 
> Mac users apparently endure in order to have both the option of saving 
> to ASCII text and the option of Saving As other formats, at the same 
> time, from the default text editor.
>
> These Mac users either:
> a. Temporarily save to the wrong format, and then convert the file to 
>    the desired format, or, the Mac users...
> b. Temporarily unhide the "Save To ASCII" option in the preferences, 
>    then they save the file to ASCII, and then they re-hide the ASCII 
>    option in the preferences.
>
> Those are the *only* two ways that have been suggested for using the 
> default text editor. Of those two methods, yes, I agree with you.
>
> Option (a) is clearly simpler than option (b).

You are fucking dense. That's *not* what I told you to do. I didn't tell
you to save the document once in the wrong format and then again in the
right format. You made that shit up yourself in a lame attempt to make
things seem more complicated than they really are. 

All you need to do is:

1. Choose Format > Make Plain Text (or Make Rich Text).
2. Save the document.

No conversion is needed. No preference settings are needed. Nothing
unintuitive about it, considering TextEdit is designed primarily for
rich text editing.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29098

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:56 +0000
Message-ID	<mh24el$i5o$20@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29080

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpjeorF7dq8U13@mid.individual.net

> No conversion is needed. No preference settings are needed. Nothing
> unintuitive about it, considering TextEdit is designed primarily for
> rich text editing.

I apologize for misunderstanding but I believe I now understand the two 
suggested methods (neither of which is intuitive).

1. The preferences method
2. The two-menu method

The preferences method, we all agree, is suboptimal if the user wants to 
keep the option of saving to various formats easily available.

The two-menu method, while highly unintuitive, will keep all the options 
open to the user. The user merely needs to reconcile the use of the 
"format" menu versus use of the "save" menu, when deciding what type of 
file to save.

This menu sequence can save a new file to ASCII text:
1. Format > Make Plain/Rich Text, File > Save

This can't save a file to ASCII text (but it can save to other formats):
2. File > Save > File Format > {a variety of formats}

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#29106

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:04 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29098

In article <mh24el$i5o$20@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> I apologize for misunderstanding but I believe I now understand the two 
> suggested methods (neither of which is intuitive).
> 
> 1. The preferences method
> 2. The two-menu method

No, you do not understand.

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#29126

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:42 +0000
Message-ID	<mh273o$i5o$37@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29106

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org

> No, you do not understand.

What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which 
is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving 
either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.

1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will 
duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.

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#29145

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:06 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29126

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > No, you do not understand.
> 
> What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which
> is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
> simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving
> either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.
> 
> 1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
> 2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}
> 
> These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will
> duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.

Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29163

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:27 +0000
Message-ID	<mh29oc$i5o$54@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29145

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?

Do you add any value to the conversation?

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#29173

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:12 +1200
Message-ID	<1m370yq.1t5z00fxxyc92N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29163

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xuo.kxxgnk1e5a5a3N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > Do you ever stop and wonder why life is so hard for yourself?
> 
> Do you add any value to the conversation?

Do you ever consider learning how to use an OS before 'helping' someone
with it?
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29181

From	Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Date	2015-04-20 01:42 -0700
Message-ID	<20150420014254132-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMme.com>
In reply to	#29126

On 2015-04-20 06:42:00 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> 
>> No, you do not understand.
> 
> What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which
> is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are
> simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving
> either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.
> 
> 1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
> 2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}
> 
> These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will
> duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.

You as a non-Mac user, need to stop helping Mac users. The next time 
they ask for assistance, just appologise and tell them that you are not 
a Mac person, and you aren't able to help.

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#29183

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 21:06 +1200
Message-ID	<1m373y0.xkcb05wyul9nN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29181

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20 06:42:00 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
> 
> > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> > 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> > 
> >> No, you do not understand.
> > 
> > What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which
> > is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are
> > simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving
> > either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.
> > 
> > 1. Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
> > 2. File > Save > File Format > {other formats}
> > 
> > These unnatural distinctions were not obvious at the outset, and I will
> > duly inform the Mac user of the approach those of you in the know use.
> 
> You as a non-Mac user, need to stop helping Mac users. The next time 
> they ask for assistance, just appologise and tell them that you are not
> a Mac person, and you aren't able to help.

Or not even a rational person.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29205

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:11 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150711128764%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29126

In article <mh273o$i5o$37@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152304578213%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > No, you do not understand.
> 
> What I (now) understand is that three methods were proposed, one of which 
> is too limiting to be generally useful, and the other two are 
> simultaneously needed in order to preserve the user's option of saving 
> either *to* a plain text file, or *as* a variety of other formats.

As I said, you do not understand.

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#29071

From	Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
Date	2015-04-19 21:37 -0700
Message-ID	<2015041921371229077-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMme.com>
In reply to	#29050

On 2015-04-20 03:56:05 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote in message
> 1m36mic.1tmh537z93w6cNMon, 20 Apr 2015 14:58:00 +1200empson@actrix.gen.nz
> 
>> They already did, at least three or four times.
> 
> Actually, only nospam mentioned th...

Damn! Why do I think you are Liam O'Connor, Alphonse, Arnaud, Danny 
Diamico, Juan Camillo Blanco, Vinny P, et al wearing another sock?

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

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#29077

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 04:44 +0000
Message-ID	<cpjegrF7dq8U12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29071

On 2015-04-20, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> On 2015-04-20 03:56:05 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>> dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote in message
>> 1m36mic.1tmh537z93w6cNMon, 20 Apr 2015 14:58:00 +1200empson@actrix.gen.nz
>> 
>>> They already did, at least three or four times.
>> 
>> Actually, only nospam mentioned th...
>
> Damn! Why do I think you are Liam O'Connor, Alphonse, Arnaud, Danny 
> Diamico, Juan Camillo Blanco, Vinny P, et al wearing another sock?

Same guy.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29073

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 21:42 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29050

In article <mh1tcl$i5o$6@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> I only belatedly realized, from something nospam said, that by adding
> the option to save ASCII text, may have concurrently *disabled* the option
> to "Save As"

You realized no such thing; where do you get such idiotic notions?

> > Once you have the document in plain text mode, you can save a plain text
> > file using File > Save. (The Save As dialog then offers a choice of
> > various plain text formats, including UTF-16, UTF-8 and various 8-bit
> > options with different character sets.)
> 
> Oh oh. That's bad news. That's what nospam intimated. So, if I
> understand you correctly, this user can't save ASCII text and still
> have the option to save as the other formats. 

No, you do not understand correctly.

> So, that means that tomorrow, I'll have to unset the option I set for
> this Macintosh user, and then tell the user that they have to save first
> into the wrong format, and then format into the right format (I'll have
> to test if ASCII text is one of the available right formats though).

Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary
and counterproductive?

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#29096

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 05:50 +0000
Message-ID	<mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29073

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org

> Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
> counterproductive?

The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.

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#29105

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:04 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152304296494%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29096

In article <mh242t$i5o$19@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152142210843%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > Why in the world would you do that when it is completely unnecessary and
> > counterproductive?
> 
> The suggested preferences method hides options, while the suggested two-
> menu method apparently keeps your options available, that's why.

Nothing hides any options.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#29244

#29023

#29050

#29057

#29075

#29080

#29098

#29106

#29126

#29145

#29163

#29173

#29181

#29183

#29205

#29071

#29077

#29073

#29096

#29105