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Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #21536 > unrolled thread

No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out

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  No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-15 00:04 +0000
    Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-03-14 23:34 -0700
    Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-15 12:33 +0000
      Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-15 14:53 +0000
        Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-16 19:15 +0000
          Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-16 20:21 +0000
            Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-16 21:52 +0000
              Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-16 18:16 -0400
                Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 00:16 +0000
              Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-16 22:27 +0000
                Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 00:35 +0000
                  Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-17 13:13 +0000
                    Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 15:45 +0000
                      Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-17 16:03 +0000
                        Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 18:06 +0000
                      Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-18 12:19 +1300
                        Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-18 14:02 +0000
                          Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-18 20:25 +0000
                            Re: No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-19 09:38 +1300

#21536 — No "Accept" button in OS X window when using HDMI video out

My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X 10.9.2
and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.

Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.

If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.

My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
overall task which is complicated enough as it is.

Any help or suggestion would be appreciated.

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#21538

In article <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X 10.9.2
> and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
> 
> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
> 
> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
> is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.
> 
> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
> 
> Any help or suggestion would be appreciated.

Sounds like a bug.  Take your MacBook Pro to an Apple Store and ask them 
to fix it.

[that should be fun]

Seriously, it sounds like a software bug that no-one here can do much 
about.  If you're an apple developer, you can log into their support 
forums and even submit a bug report about it.  Or someone at the Apple 
Store's Genius Bar will do that for you.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#21541

In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net> 
  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X 10.9.2
> and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.

> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.

The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
time, I am guessing.

This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
because you can't answer it on the projector.

> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
> is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.

Yeah, that sort of makes sense.

> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.

Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
setting it as a second display instead?

-- 
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow don't be alarmed now.

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#21543

On 2014-03-15, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>
>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X
>> 10.9.2 and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
>
>> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
>> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
>> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
>
> The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
> separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
> time, I am guessing.
>
> This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
> call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
> tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
> because you can't answer it on the projector.
>
>> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
>> is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.
>
> Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
>
>> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
>> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
>> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
>
> Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
> setting it as a second display instead?

She's just plugging in the HDMI cable so I guess the video is being mirrored.

I'll check it out when I fet access to all the devices again.

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#21562

On 2014-03-15, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-15, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>
>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X
>>> 10.9.2 and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
>>
>>> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
>>> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
>>> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
>>
>> The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
>> separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
>> time, I am guessing.
>>
>> This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
>> call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
>> tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
>> because you can't answer it on the projector.
>>
>>> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
>>> is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.
>>
>> Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
>>
>>> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
>>> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
>>> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
>>
>> Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
>> setting it as a second display instead?
>
> She's just plugging in the HDMI cable so I guess the video is being mirrored.
>
> I'll check it out when I get access to all the devices again.

Finally got to test the suggested display options.
The System Preferences Disolays pane shows the HDMI connected display as *the*
display; no options for mirroring or a second display.

Meanwhile, I submitted a bug report against Facetime since that seems to be the
only app exhibiting a problem.

Yhjanks all.

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#21565

In message <bombj4F1up1U1@mid.individual.net> 
  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-15, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-15, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X
>>>> 10.9.2 and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
>>>
>>>> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
>>>> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
>>>> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
>>>
>>> The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
>>> separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
>>> time, I am guessing.
>>>
>>> This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
>>> call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
>>> tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
>>> because you can't answer it on the projector.
>>>
>>>> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept" button
>>>> is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the HDMI cable.
>>>
>>> Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
>>>
>>>> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
>>>> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
>>>> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
>>>
>>> Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
>>> setting it as a second display instead?
>>
>> She's just plugging in the HDMI cable so I guess the video is being mirrored.
>>
>> I'll check it out when I get access to all the devices again.

> Finally got to test the suggested display options.
> The System Preferences Disolays pane shows the HDMI connected display as *the*
> display; no options for mirroring or a second display.

Is the lid on the MBP closed? If so, then the projector is the only
screen.

> Meanwhile, I submitted a bug report against Facetime since that seems to be the
> only app exhibiting a problem.

It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
does NOT have audio out or a microphone, so it CANNOT answer the
Facetime call.


-- 
The brain is an amazing organ, it works every second of every day
from before we're even born right up until the instant we fall in
love.

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#21572

On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <bombj4F1up1U1@mid.individual.net>
>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-15, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2014-03-15, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>> In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X
>>>>> 10.9.2 and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
>>>>
>>>>> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
>>>>> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
>>>>> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
>>>>
>>>> The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
>>>> separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
>>>> time, I am guessing.
>>>>
>>>> This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
>>>> call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
>>>> tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
>>>> because you can't answer it on the projector.
>>>>
>>>>> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept"
>>>>> button is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the
>>>>> HDMI cable.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
>>>>
>>>>> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
>>>>> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
>>>>> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
>>>>
>>>> Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
>>>> setting it as a second display instead?
>>>
>>> She's just plugging in the HDMI cable so I guess the video is being mirrored.
>>>
>>> I'll check it out when I get access to all the devices again.
>
>> Finally got to test the suggested display options.
>> The System Preferences Disolays pane shows the HDMI connected display as *the*
>> display; no options for mirroring or a second display.
>
> Is the lid on the MBP closed? If so, then the projector is the only
> screen.
>
>> Meanwhile, I submitted a bug report against Facetime since that seems to be the
>> only app exhibiting a problem.
>
> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector

1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
	HDMI as the Mac's output device.
2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
	accept the call.

> does NOT have audio out or a microphone, so it CANNOT answer the
> Facetime call.
>
>

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#21574

In article <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
> 	accept the call.

I know this sounds silly, but has she tried hitting "enter" anyway? It's 
not some interface error?
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#21578

On 2014-03-16, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
>> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
>> 	accept the call.
>
> I know this sounds silly, but has she tried hitting "enter" anyway? It's
> not some interface error?

Yep; we tried Enter and all combinations of Ctrl- Opt- Cmd- enter. Nothing
worked.

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#21576

In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net> 
  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <bombj4F1up1U1@mid.individual.net>
>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2014-03-15, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2014-03-15, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> In message <bohjojF27oaU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> My wife has a new MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) rinning OS X
>>>>>> 10.9.2 and connected to an Epson Projector via HDMI <-> HDMI cable.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything seems to work properly except that an incoming Facetime video call
>>>>>> does not display an "Accept" button so the call cannot be completed. If we
>>>>>> disconnect the HDMI, there is still no accept button for that call.
>>>>>
>>>>> The projector does not support audio over HDMI, right? You have to run a
>>>>> separate audio cable, yes? And the projector is your only monitor at the
>>>>> time, I am guessing.
>>>>>
>>>>> This means that Facetime has no way to establish the audio portion of the
>>>>> call and in particular, doesn't have a microphone available. So, it
>>>>> tells you about the call so you can answer it on some other device,
>>>>> because you can't answer it on the projector.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If we re-originate the call with the HDMI cable unplugged, the "Accept"
>>>>>> button is displayed, the call can be completed, and we can reconnect the
>>>>>> HDMI cable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My wife intends to show a video, then accept a Facetime call and then show
>>>>>> another video. While the above works, it adds additional complexity to an
>>>>>> overall task which is complicated enough as it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is she mirroring her laptop display to the projector? Have you tried
>>>>> setting it as a second display instead?
>>>>
>>>> She's just plugging in the HDMI cable so I guess the video is being mirrored.
>>>>
>>>> I'll check it out when I get access to all the devices again.
>>
>>> Finally got to test the suggested display options.
>>> The System Preferences Disolays pane shows the HDMI connected display as *the*
>>> display; no options for mirroring or a second display.
>>
>> Is the lid on the MBP closed? If so, then the projector is the only
>> screen.
>>
>>> Meanwhile, I submitted a bug report against Facetime since that seems to be the
>>> only app exhibiting a problem.
>>
>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector

> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
> 	HDMI as the Mac's output device.

Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)

> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
> 	accept the call.

The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
audio in.

>> does NOT have audio out or a microphone, so it CANNOT answer the
>> Facetime call.


-- 
CURSIVE WRITING DOES NOT MEAN WHAT I THINK IT DOES Bart chalkboard Ep.
2F11

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#21579

On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>
>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
>
>> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
>> 	HDMI as the Mac's output device.
>
> Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)

Yes, really! The projector is a 730HD 720p and it has an internal speaker but
no microphone.

>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
>> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
>> 	accept the call.
>
> The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
> audio in.
>

I'd buy that except:
1. The HDMI display just shows up as the display in the Mac's
	System Preferences->Displays pane.
2. The Mac display is still active and its Facetime window has no Accept button
	either.
3. Once the call is accepted (with the HDMI device disconnected) and the HDMI
	device is reconnected, the Facetime call proceeds normally with both audio
	and video.

I maintain that it is a bug in Facetime or one of the associated APIs since
the app is running on the Mac and all the Mac's peripherals are functional; in
particular, the Input Device is set to Internal microphone.

The Late 2013 13" MacBook Pro has two internal microphones but no provision for
external audio in.

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#21583

In message <bomuaeF5mu6U2@mid.individual.net> 
  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>
>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
>>
>>> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
>>> 	HDMI as the Mac's output device.
>>
>> Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)

> Yes, really! The projector is a 730HD 720p and it has an internal speaker but
> no microphone.

>>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
>>> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
>>> 	accept the call.
>>
>> The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
>> audio in.
>>

> I'd buy that except:
> 1. The HDMI display just shows up as the display in the Mac's
> 	System Preferences->Displays pane.
> 2. The Mac display is still active and its Facetime window has no Accept button
> 	either.

This doesn't jibe with your saying that there are no mirroring options
in the Displays System Preferences.

> 3. Once the call is accepted (with the HDMI device disconnected) and the HDMI
> 	device is reconnected, the Facetime call proceeds normally with both audio
> 	and video.

> I maintain that it is a bug in Facetime or one of the associated APIs since
> the app is running on the Mac and all the Mac's peripherals are functional; in
> particular, the Input Device is set to Internal microphone.

It's certainly possible. My MBP doesn't have HDMI out, so it could be
some difference (though I don't see this behavior with MDP->HDMI). I
could check on the Mac mini which does have HDMI out connected to an
Epson projector (sans speakers or mic), but I would expect an alert and
no answer button.

-- 
He [Vimes]'d never felt really at home with swords, but a cleaver was a
different matter. A cleaver had weight. It had purpose. A sword might
have a certain nobility about it, unless it was the one belonging for
example to Nobby, which relied on rust to hold it together, but what a
cleaver had was a tremendous ability to cut things up.

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#21585

On 2014-03-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <bomuaeF5mu6U2@mid.individual.net>
>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
>>>
>>>> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
>>>> 	HDMI as the Mac's output device.
>>>
>>> Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)
>
>> Yes, really! The projector is a 730HD 720p and it has an internal speaker but
>> no microphone.
>
>>>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
>>>> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
>>>> 	accept the call.
>>>
>>> The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
>>> audio in.
>>>
>
>> I'd buy that except:
>> 1. The HDMI display just shows up as the display in the Mac's
>> 	System Preferences->Displays pane.
>> 2. The Mac display is still active and its Facetime window has no Accept button
>> 	either.
>
> This doesn't jibe with your saying that there are no mirroring options
> in the Displays System Preferences.

Why not? I know the Mac display is active because I looke at and interact with
it. System Preferences->Dispkays shows only the HDMI device -- no mirror
or second display option.
>
>> 3. Once the call is accepted (with the HDMI device disconnected) and the HDMI
>> 	device is reconnected, the Facetime call proceeds normally with both audio
>> 	and video.
>
>> I maintain that it is a bug in Facetime or one of the associated APIs since
>> the app is running on the Mac and all the Mac's peripherals are functional;
>> in particular, the Input Device is set to Internal microphone.

You might also note that the HDMI interface is unidirectional; it wouldn't
matter if the priojector did have a microphone.
>
> It's certainly possible. My MBP doesn't have HDMI out, so it could be
> some difference (though I don't see this behavior with MDP->HDMI). I
> could check on the Mac mini which does have HDMI out connected to an
> Epson projector (sans speakers or mic), but I would expect an alert and
> no answer button.

That might be interesting, but irrelevant, since the Mini doesn't have a
built in display.

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#21586

In message <boojk9Fgg4nU1@mid.individual.net> 
  Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <bomuaeF5mu6U2@mid.individual.net>
>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>> In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>
>>>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
>>>>
>>>>> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to select
>>>>> 	HDMI as the Mac's output device.
>>>>
>>>> Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)
>>
>>> Yes, really! The projector is a 730HD 720p and it has an internal speaker but
>>> no microphone.
>>
>>>>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept" button
>>>>> 	shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she can't
>>>>> 	accept the call.
>>>>
>>>> The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
>>>> audio in.
>>>>
>>
>>> I'd buy that except:
>>> 1. The HDMI display just shows up as the display in the Mac's
>>> 	System Preferences->Displays pane.
>>> 2. The Mac display is still active and its Facetime window has no Accept button
>>> 	either.
>>
>> This doesn't jibe with your saying that there are no mirroring options
>> in the Displays System Preferences.

> Why not? I know the Mac display is active because I looke at and interact with
> it. System Preferences->Dispkays shows only the HDMI device -- no mirror
> or second display option.

Because when two displays are connect (internal display and HDMI
projector) it is normal to see mirroring options in the Display System
Preferences. Either that, or "Arrange". You say these options are not
there, which I find very strange.

>>> 3. Once the call is accepted (with the HDMI device disconnected) and the HDMI
>>> 	device is reconnected, the Facetime call proceeds normally with both audio
>>> 	and video.
>>
>>> I maintain that it is a bug in Facetime or one of the associated APIs since
>>> the app is running on the Mac and all the Mac's peripherals are functional;
>>> in particular, the Input Device is set to Internal microphone.

> You might also note that the HDMI interface is unidirectional; it wouldn't
> matter if the priojector did have a microphone.

That could be (I have no idea if HDMI supports any data back, but I'll
take your word for it), and it would certainly be another reason for the
HDMI to never show an answer button.

>> It's certainly possible. My MBP doesn't have HDMI out, so it could be
>> some difference (though I don't see this behavior with MDP->HDMI). I
>> could check on the Mac mini which does have HDMI out connected to an
>> Epson projector (sans speakers or mic), but I would expect an alert and
>> no answer button.

> That might be interesting, but irrelevant, since the Mini doesn't have a
> built in display.

It does support two displays though.

-- 
If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be
unemployed.

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#21589

On 2014-03-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <boojk9Fgg4nU1@mid.individual.net>
>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>>  I know the Mac display is active because I look at and interact with
>> it. System Preferences->Dispkays shows only the HDMI device -- no mirror
>> or second display option.
>
> Because when two displays are connect (internal display and HDMI
> projector) it is normal to see mirroring options in the Display System
> Preferences. Either that, or "Arrange". You say these options are not
> there, which I find very strange.

Well, what's "normal" for me is what I see on the only set of devices I have
access to.

[snip]

>> You might also note that the HDMI interface is unidirectional; it wouldn't
>> matter if the priojector did have a microphone.
>
> That could be (I have no idea if HDMI supports any data back, but I'll
> take your word for it), and it would certainly be another reason for the
> HDMI to never show an answer button.

It's not just that the HDMI device doesn't show the Accept button, the MacBook's
display, which *does* support interaction with the trackpad and keyboard, does
not show the button either. That's either a flaw in design or implementation.

Now since all the other graphics applicatations support normal dialog boxes and
other cursor-trackpad interaction while the HDMI device is connected, I assigned
the problem to Facetime and not to the lack of a microphone on the HDMI device.

>>> It's certainly possible. My MBP doesn't have HDMI out, so it could be
>>> some difference (though I don't see this behavior with MDP->HDMI). I
>>> could check on the Mac mini which does have HDMI out connected to an
>>> Epson projector (sans speakers or mic), but I would expect an alert and
>>> no answer button.
>
>> That might be interesting, but irrelevant, since the Mini doesn't have a
>> built in display.
>
> It does support two displays though.

But since it doesn't bear on my problem, I happily surrender the thread to you.

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#21595

Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2014-03-17, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > In message <bomuaeF5mu6U2@mid.individual.net>
> >   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >>> In message <bomkp1F3v8mU1@mid.individual.net>
> >>>   Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 2014-03-16, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is not a bug in Facetime. I explained to you, the Epson projector
> >>>
> >>>> 1. The Epson Projector *does* support audio over HDMI but you have to
> >>>> select HDMI as the Mac's output device.
> >>>
> >>> Really? Mine doesn't, and has no way to output audio (or input audio)
> >
> >> Yes, really! The projector is a 730HD 720p and it has an internal
> >> speaker but no microphone.
> >
> >>>> 2. The problem is not with the audio; it's the fact that no "Accept"
> >>>> button shows up in the Facetime window. The ringing is heard but she
> >>>> can't accept the call.
> >>>
> >>> The reason the accept button doesn't appear is because of the lack of
> >>> audio in.
> >>>
> >
> >> I'd buy that except:
> >> 1. The HDMI display just shows up as the display in the Mac's
> >>    System Preferences->Displays pane.
> >> 2. The Mac display is still active and its Facetime window has no
> >> Accept button either.
> >
> > This doesn't jibe with your saying that there are no mirroring options
> > in the Displays System Preferences.
> 
> Why not? I know the Mac display is active because I looke at and interact with
> it. System Preferences->Dispkays shows only the HDMI device -- no mirror
> or second display option.

That isn't normal.

I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) running OS X 10.9.2.

I would expect exactly the same behaviour as below on the 13-inch model,
as it is the same on every earlier Mac notebook model on which I've
connected an external display (apart from much earlier models like
iBooks which only supported mirroring).

If I plug in an external display (in my case a bog standard AOC LCD
display with no audio capabilities) via the built-in HDMI port, then
Displays in System Preferences gains the usual "Arrangement" tab, which
shows the layout of the built-in and connected displays, and has a
"Mirror Displays" checkbox.

If the displays are not being mirrored (extended desktop mode) then the
Displays preference pane shows a separate window on each display to
configure that display. The Arrangement tab is only visible on the
primary display.

If the displays are mirrored then the Displays preference pane shows
overlapped but separate windows for each display (visible on both
displays due to the mirroring). The Arrangement tab will be on one of
them (not necessarily the same one as it was on when in extended desktop
mode).

I can toggle between mirrored and extended desktop modes by pressing
Command-F1, without having to go through System Preferences > Displays.

If I leave the external display connected, plug in an external keyboard
and mouse and close the lid of the MBPro (clamshell mode), the external
display is now the only one available in System Preferences > Displays,
and there is no Arrangement tab.

Opening the lid again restores whichever of mirrored or extended desktop
mode was being used before.

If you really don't see the Arrangement tab and have identical images on
both displays, with the window naming the external display, that sounds
like your MBPro thinks it is in clamshell mode but is activating the
internal display anyway (in mirroring mode). I've never seen that.


Testing with incoming FaceTime calls:

1. Extended display mode (built-in plus external via HDMI).
2. Mirrored mode (built-in plus external via HDMI).
3. Clamshell mode (external only, with no external camera or
microphone).

In all three cases, an incoming FaceTime call had an Accept button. In
case 3, I didn't get a video preview in the window, since there was no
camera available.

One special point to note: in case 2 (mirrored mode), by default the
system turns on Do Not Disturb (which can be accessed via the top of the
Notification Centre), and while in that state, the Mac doesn't present
any window when there is an incoming FaceTime call. (I could tell there
was an incoming call because it also rang on my iPhone.)

I should also note that I have some extra drivers installed for my
club's EPSON projector via USB, which presents as alternative inputs and
outputs in System Preferences > Sound (not sure how the input works as
it isn't documented). This shouldn't be relevant because the projector
wasn't connected, its audio input and output weren't selected in System
Preferences > Sound, and even in clamshell mode, the MBPro's internal
speaker and microphone are available (and work).

> >> You might also note that the HDMI interface is unidirectional; it
> >> wouldn't matter if the priojector did have a microphone.
> >
> > That could be (I have no idea if HDMI supports any data back, but I'll
> > take your word for it), and it would certainly be another reason for the
> > HDMI to never show an answer button.
> 
> It's not just that the HDMI device doesn't show the Accept button, the
> MacBook's display, which *does* support interaction with the trackpad and
> keyboard, does not show the button either. That's either a flaw in design
> or implementation.

If the displays are mirrored and the hypothetical reason for lack of an
Accept button is limited capabilities of the projector, then the
internal display wouldn't be able to show that button either, because
the display was being mirrored.

I haven't yet been able to create a situation where an incoming FaceTime
call is missing the Accept button.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#21598

On 2014-03-17, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why not? I know the Mac display is active because I look at and interact with
>> it. System Preferences->Dispkays shows only the HDMI device -- no mirror
>> or second display option.
>
> That isn't normal.

Thanks for your answer.

I was mistaken. I failed to check all the tabs on the Displays pane.
There are, in fact, options for mirroring and extended desktop mode and I just
didn't see them.

> I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) running OS X 10.9.2.
>
> I would expect exactly the same behaviour as below on the 13-inch model,
> as it is the same on every earlier Mac notebook model on which I've
> connected an external display (apart from much earlier models like
> iBooks which only supported mirroring).
>
> If I plug in an external display (in my case a bog standard AOC LCD
> display with no audio capabilities) via the built-in HDMI port, then
> Displays in System Preferences gains the usual "Arrangement" tab, which
> shows the layout of the built-in and connected displays, and has a
> "Mirror Displays" checkbox.
>
> If the displays are not being mirrored (extended desktop mode) then the
> Displays preference pane shows a separate window on each display to
> configure that display. The Arrangement tab is only visible on the
> primary display.
>
> If the displays are mirrored then the Displays preference pane shows
> overlapped but separate windows for each display (visible on both
> displays due to the mirroring). The Arrangement tab will be on one of
> them (not necessarily the same one as it was on when in extended desktop
> mode).

I did not see the overlapped window. I might be forgiven if you could see the
desktop on my wife's computer.

> I can toggle between mirrored and extended desktop modes by pressing
> Command-F1, without having to go through System Preferences > Displays.

Same here, now that I have some idea of what's happening.

> If I leave the external display connected, plug in an external keyboard
> and mouse and close the lid of the MBPro (clamshell mode), the external
> display is now the only one available in System Preferences > Displays,
> and there is no Arrangement tab.

I don't have the equipemnt for that experiment.

> Opening the lid again restores whichever of mirrored or extended desktop
> mode was being used before.
>
> If you really don't see the Arrangement tab and have identical images on
> both displays, with the window naming the external display, that sounds
> like your MBPro thinks it is in clamshell mode but is activating the
> internal display anyway (in mirroring mode). I've never seen that.
>
>
> Testing with incoming FaceTime calls:

I can't make a Facetime call now as my wife is out and would take the call on
her iPhone, I'll try when she returns.
>
> 1. Extended display mode (built-in plus external via HDMI).
> 2. Mirrored mode (built-in plus external via HDMI).
> 3. Clamshell mode (external only, with no external camera or
> microphone).
>
> In all three cases, an incoming FaceTime call had an Accept button. In
> case 3, I didn't get a video preview in the window, since there was no
> camera available.
>
> One special point to note: in case 2 (mirrored mode), by default the
> system turns on Do Not Disturb (which can be accessed via the top of the
> Notification Centre), and while in that state, the Mac doesn't present
> any window when there is an incoming FaceTime call. (I could tell there
> was an incoming call because it also rang on my iPhone.)

That mey be the answer to my initial [perceived] problem.

> I should also note that I have some extra drivers installed for my
> club's EPSON projector via USB, which presents as alternative inputs and
> outputs in System Preferences > Sound (not sure how the input works as
> it isn't documented). This shouldn't be relevant because the projector
> wasn't connected, its audio input and output weren't selected in System
> Preferences > Sound, and even in clamshell mode, the MBPro's internal
> speaker and microphone are available (and work).
>
>> >> You might also note that the HDMI interface is unidirectional; it
>> >> wouldn't matter if the priojector did have a microphone.
>> >
>> > That could be (I have no idea if HDMI supports any data back, but I'll
>> > take your word for it), and it would certainly be another reason for the
>> > HDMI to never show an answer button.
>>
>> It's not just that the HDMI device doesn't show the Accept button, the
>> MacBook's display, which *does* support interaction with the trackpad and
>> keyboard, does not show the button either. That's either a flaw in design
>> or implementation.
>
> If the displays are mirrored and the hypothetical reason for lack of an
> Accept button is limited capabilities of the projector, then the
> internal display wouldn't be able to show that button either, because
> the display was being mirrored.
>
> I haven't yet been able to create a situation where an incoming FaceTime
> call is missing the Accept button.

I'll run some more tests when I know the iPhone won't be answered before
the MacBook.

Thanks again for your insight and help.

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#21603

On 2014-03-18, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-17, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

[snip]

>> One special point to note: in case 2 (mirrored mode), by default the
>> system turns on Do Not Disturb (which can be accessed via the top of the
>> Notification Centre), and while in that state, the Mac doesn't present
>> any window when there is an incoming FaceTime call. (I could tell there
>> was an incoming call because it also rang on my iPhone.)
>
> That mey be the answer to my initial [perceived] problem.

After David Epson pointed out the option in the Notification window, I looked
at the Notification pane in System Preferences where all is laid bare.

Do Not Disturbe has several options, including ones for Facetime specifically.

[snip]

>>
>> I haven't yet been able to create a situation where an incoming FaceTime
>> call is missing the Accept button.
>
> I'll run some more tests when I know the iPhone won't be answered before
> the MacBook.

I ran the Facetime test and everything works pretty much as explained by
David Empson.
>
> Thanks again for your insight and help.

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#21604

Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2014-03-18, Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2014-03-17, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >> One special point to note: in case 2 (mirrored mode), by default the
> >> system turns on Do Not Disturb (which can be accessed via the top of the
> >> Notification Centre), and while in that state, the Mac doesn't present
> >> any window when there is an incoming FaceTime call. (I could tell there
> >> was an incoming call because it also rang on my iPhone.)
> >
> > That mey be the answer to my initial [perceived] problem.

Here, have a free m. I keep plenty of spares as I need to give them out
reasonably often. :-)

> After David Epson pointed out the option in the Notification window, I looked
               ^m
> at the Notification pane in System Preferences where all is laid bare.
> 
> Do Not Disturbe has several options, including ones for Facetime specifically.
> 
> [snip]

Aha. I hadn't got as far as System Preferences > Notifications. I was
using what I assume are the default options for Do Not Disturb (as I
expect you were): Turn on Do Not Disturb "When mirroring to TVs and
Projectors" was enabled, and both options were disabled for allowing
FaceTime calls while in Do Not Disturb.

> >> I haven't yet been able to create a situation where an incoming FaceTime
> >> call is missing the Accept button.
> >
> > I'll run some more tests when I know the iPhone won't be answered before
> > the MacBook.
> 
> I ran the Facetime test and everything works pretty much as explained by
> David Empson.
> >
> > Thanks again for your insight and help.

You're welcome.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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