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Re: Sony laptop battery

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  Re: Sony laptop battery "D@ve Pr1ce" <spamretarder@w1ldswan.plus.com> - 2011-04-01 16:01 -0500
    Re: Sony laptop battery jeradl <jeradl.4yvis5@no.email.invalid> - 2011-08-21 20:47 -0500
      Re: Sony laptop battery "Anthony R. Gold" <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> - 2011-08-25 21:26 +0100
        Re: Sony laptop battery BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-08-25 16:10 -0500
          Re: Sony laptop battery "Anthony R. Gold" <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> - 2011-08-25 23:29 +0100
            Re: Sony laptop battery BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-08-25 18:34 -0500

#118 — Re: Sony laptop battery

Ron <ryon@dslnorthwest.net> wrote in
news:d37d6263-d127-410c-be2c-f949aa42d73b@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com: 

> On Feb 20, 1:28 pm, "D@ve Pr1ce" <spamretar...@w1ldswan.plus.com>
> wrote:
>> My 9 month old e-series Sony Vaio has a problem with the battery.
>>  When left SWITCHED OFF for 3 weeks the battery is flat.  The battery
>> is now reporting a degredation in the charging ability and Sony want
>> me to buy a new one for Ł118.  Aparently, batteries are consumables.
>>  This lapt 
> op has
>> been rarely used in 9 months, on average only a couple of times a
>> month. 
>  
>> There are other reports of Sony laptop batteries losing charge when
>> switched off, but Sony won't do anything about it.
>> I was going to buy another laptop this month, but it won't be a Sony
>> now. 
>>
>> Don't buy Sony laptops unless you are prepared to buy a battery every
>> yea 
> r.
>>
>> Oh and have read that the Sony BIOS checks if it is a genuine Sony
>> batter 
> y
>> and it won't boot if it's not.  If true, you can't buy a cheap
>> replacem 
> ent
>> battery.
>>
>> Don't buy Sony laptops.
> 
> Okay, here's something from back in the day when electronics was
> something more than rampant consumerism: batteries have a thing called
> "memory effect" or just plain memory. Which means that they can be
> charged and discharged-- cycled-- but if you don't completely
> discharge them they never reach their fulll potential again. If your
> battery has any charge at all, it's not completely dead.
> 
> Before having a fit over Sony's business practices, try finding a
> battery charger that will eleminate the memory effect. Once upon a
> time there were charges that conditioned the batteries buy completely
> discharging them and started a whole new charge cycle that eliminated
> the memory problem and conditioned the battery back to a working
> condition.
> 
> If you can find such a charger, it may not be cheaper than buying a
> new battery but you can use it to reduce the number of new batteries
> you may have to buy down to just one-- well, at least for a whle. No
> battery lasts forever.  ;-)
> 
> Ron
> 
> 

OK - lesson one - Lithium ion batteries don't have the SAME memory effects 
that the Nickel metal hydrides did/do.

I have never seen a laptop battery charger that isn't part of an actual 
laptop, but I think you have missed the point of the post or don't 
understand it.

Nine months for a rechargeable L-ion battery that has hardly been used and 
was in a switched-off laptop all that time is not good enough, period.

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#610

Also, there will be internal battery chemical degradation even when it's
not in use. The percentage is greater in nickel-based batteries, but
there is still some in li-ion. And within li-ion batteries there are
"dumb" types, which have no degradation, but will lose capacity; and
"smart" types which have some degradation, but only around 5-10%
compared to nickel-based 25-30%. Keep that in mind when buying your next
laptop batteries.

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#613

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:47:56 -0500, jeradl <jeradl.4yvis5@no.email.invalid>
wrote:

>
> Also, there will be internal battery chemical degradation even when it's
> not in use. The percentage is greater in nickel-based batteries, but
> there is still some in li-ion. And within li-ion batteries there are
> "dumb" types, which have no degradation, but will lose capacity; and
> "smart" types which have some degradation, but only around 5-10%
> compared to nickel-based 25-30%. Keep that in mind when buying your next
> laptop batteries.

What are you trying to say? "no degradation, but will lose capacity"? Maybe
you could define your terms. What can be degraded if not capacity? Are you
maybe confusing capacity with charge or what?

And why keep anything in mind when buying batteries? Is there any model of
laptop for which various technologies of battery are available for choosing?

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#614

On 8/25/2011 3:26 PM, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:47:56 -0500, jeradl wrote:
>
>> Also, there will be internal battery chemical degradation even when it's
>> not in use. The percentage is greater in nickel-based batteries, but
>> there is still some in li-ion. And within li-ion batteries there are
>> "dumb" types, which have no degradation, but will lose capacity; and
>> "smart" types which have some degradation, but only around 5-10%
>> compared to nickel-based 25-30%. Keep that in mind when buying your next
>> laptop batteries.
>
> What are you trying to say? "no degradation, but will lose capacity"? Maybe
> you could define your terms. What can be degraded if not capacity? Are you
> maybe confusing capacity with charge or what?
>
> And why keep anything in mind when buying batteries? Is there any model of
> laptop for which various technologies of battery are available for choosing?

What jeradl is saying is that dumb types knows nothing about the current 
state of  the battery (Windows is clueless too and thus has to learn by 
discharging the battery and recharging). The smart type has supporting 
circuits that knows what is actually going on with the battery. So 
Windows doesn't have to learn on its own, but reads what the hardware 
(smart battery) already knows.

Lithium (Li-Ion) has been used virtually in all laptops for about 12 
years now. Li-Ion is said to sport more capacity vs. size and weight vs. 
the below.

Ni-MH was used in the 90's and ended in the 90's pretty much.

Ni-Cad was used in laptops in the 80's and part of the 90's. Most 
(including myself) feels Ni-MH is better and has far more capacity than 
Ni-Cad.

Lead acid was rarely used, but I saw them in the late 80's. They are the 
heaviest per capacity, but very forgiving otherwise.

If you know what you are doing, you could use any battery type you want. 
Although you have to make a battery that fits and most likely have to 
modify the charging circuit to do things differently vs. the original type.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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#615

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 16:10:35 -0500, BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

> On 8/25/2011 3:26 PM, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:47:56 -0500, jeradl wrote:
>>
>>> Also, there will be internal battery chemical degradation even when it's
>>> not in use. The percentage is greater in nickel-based batteries, but
>>> there is still some in li-ion. And within li-ion batteries there are
>>> "dumb" types, which have no degradation, but will lose capacity; and
>>> "smart" types which have some degradation, but only around 5-10%
>>> compared to nickel-based 25-30%. Keep that in mind when buying your next
>>> laptop batteries.
>>
>> What are you trying to say? "no degradation, but will lose capacity"? Maybe
>> you could define your terms. What can be degraded if not capacity? Are you
>> maybe confusing capacity with charge or what?
>>
>> And why keep anything in mind when buying batteries? Is there any model of
>> laptop for which various technologies of battery are available for choosing?
>
> What jeradl is saying is that dumb types knows nothing about the current 
> state of  the battery (Windows is clueless too and thus has to learn by 
> discharging the battery and recharging). The smart type has supporting 
> circuits that knows what is actually going on with the battery. So 
> Windows doesn't have to learn on its own, but reads what the hardware 
> (smart battery) already knows.
>
> Lithium (Li-Ion) has been used virtually in all laptops for about 12 
> years now. Li-Ion is said to sport more capacity vs. size and weight vs. 
> the below.
>
> Ni-MH was used in the 90's and ended in the 90's pretty much.
>
> Ni-Cad was used in laptops in the 80's and part of the 90's. Most 
> (including myself) feels Ni-MH is better and has far more capacity than 
> Ni-Cad.
>
> Lead acid was rarely used, but I saw them in the late 80's. They are the 
> heaviest per capacity, but very forgiving otherwise.
>
> If you know what you are doing, you could use any battery type you want. 
> Although you have to make a battery that fits and most likely have to 
> modify the charging circuit to do things differently vs. the original type.

That's all fine, but it is what YOU are saying. If you claim to know what he
was saying please translate "no degradation, but will lose capacity" into a
coherent thought.

And you truly believe: "Keep that in mind when buying your next laptop
batteries" was jeradl call for subscribers of comp.sys.laptops to warm up
their soldering irons and start modifying their laptops' charging circuits?

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#616

On 8/25/2011 5:29 PM, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 16:10:35 -0500, BillW50<BillW50@aol.kom>  wrote:
>
>> On 8/25/2011 3:26 PM, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:47:56 -0500, jeradl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, there will be internal battery chemical degradation even when it's
>>>> not in use. The percentage is greater in nickel-based batteries, but
>>>> there is still some in li-ion. And within li-ion batteries there are
>>>> "dumb" types, which have no degradation, but will lose capacity; and
>>>> "smart" types which have some degradation, but only around 5-10%
>>>> compared to nickel-based 25-30%. Keep that in mind when buying your next
>>>> laptop batteries.
>>>
>>> What are you trying to say? "no degradation, but will lose capacity"? Maybe
>>> you could define your terms. What can be degraded if not capacity? Are you
>>> maybe confusing capacity with charge or what?
>>>
>>> And why keep anything in mind when buying batteries? Is there any model of
>>> laptop for which various technologies of battery are available for choosing?
>>
>> What jeradl is saying is that dumb types knows nothing about the current
>> state of  the battery (Windows is clueless too and thus has to learn by
>> discharging the battery and recharging). The smart type has supporting
>> circuits that knows what is actually going on with the battery. So
>> Windows doesn't have to learn on its own, but reads what the hardware
>> (smart battery) already knows.
>>
>> Lithium (Li-Ion) has been used virtually in all laptops for about 12
>> years now. Li-Ion is said to sport more capacity vs. size and weight vs.
>> the below.
>>
>> Ni-MH was used in the 90's and ended in the 90's pretty much.
>>
>> Ni-Cad was used in laptops in the 80's and part of the 90's. Most
>> (including myself) feels Ni-MH is better and has far more capacity than
>> Ni-Cad.
>>
>> Lead acid was rarely used, but I saw them in the late 80's. They are the
>> heaviest per capacity, but very forgiving otherwise.
>>
>> If you know what you are doing, you could use any battery type you want.
>> Although you have to make a battery that fits and most likely have to
>> modify the charging circuit to do things differently vs. the original type.
>
> That's all fine, but it is what YOU are saying. If you claim to know what he
> was saying please translate "no degradation, but will lose capacity" into a
> coherent thought.

No! Some batteries have circuits built inside which knows the current 
state of the battery (aka smart battery). And some are clueless about 
the current state (aka dumb battery).

A dumb battery will report no degradation (it won't report anything 
really as it knows nothing). But being a dumb battery, it will still 
degrade without reporting anything of the kind. As all it will report is 
what is on the label of the battery and nothing else.

> And you truly believe: "Keep that in mind when buying your next laptop
> batteries" was jeradl call for subscribers of comp.sys.laptops to warm up
> their soldering irons and start modifying their laptops' charging circuits?

Well a very small percentage of people can engineer and modify almost 
anything. I realize *most* can't do so. Thus those of you who can't, 
must rely on the third party support for other options.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core Duo 1.83G - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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