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New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s)

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  New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) Seth Sternberger <8bwinfo@gmail.com> - 2013-06-23 11:14 -0700
    Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) BLuRry <brendan.robert@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 08:09 -0700
      Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) BLuRry <brendan.robert@gmail.com> - 2013-06-24 08:19 -0700
    Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 22:51 -0700
      Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) gids.rs@sasktel.net - 2013-06-27 15:44 -0700
        Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) "Anton Treuenfels" <teamtempest@yahoo.com> - 2013-06-29 11:45 -0500
          Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2013-06-30 11:00 -0500
            Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 14:25 -0700
              Re: New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s) "Anton Treuenfels" <teamtempest@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-01 00:01 -0500

#729 — New RPG for Apple II needs some extra help from Assembly Coder(s)

Hi Everyone,

My name is Seth Sternberger of the band 8 Bit Weapon. I was searching the web for Apple II fans and more importantly coders. My friend and I are building an Apple II rpg that will be ported over to PC/Mac but will still retain it's apple II look and feel.

Do you know how to program assembly for the Apple II? If so, would you be interested in helping us build a new Bard'staler/Ultima style RPG on the Apple II with us? We already have a tile/map editor built, but we still have a few other bits to sort out.

Please contact me if you are interested in participating, any amount is welcome!

8bwinfo at gmail.com 

Cheers!

Seth :)
www.8bitweapon.com

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#730

On Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:14:27 PM UTC-5, Seth Sternberger wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> My name is Seth Sternberger of the band 8 Bit Weapon. I was searching the web for Apple II fans and more importantly coders. My friend and I are building an Apple II rpg that will be ported over to PC/Mac but will still retain it's apple II look and feel.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how to program assembly for the Apple II? If so, would you be interested in helping us build a new Bard'staler/Ultima style RPG on the Apple II with us? We already have a tile/map editor built, but we still have a few other bits to sort out.
> 
> 
> 
> Please contact me if you are interested in participating, any amount is welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> 8bwinfo at gmail.com 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> Seth :)
> 
> www.8bitweapon.com

The editor is based on the work I did when I was 15.  The new editor is way more powerful, even in its infant alpha state, and totally kicks my former work to the curb.  It is indeed a gratifying feeling. :-D  If anyone has seen my tilegame disk image before then it should be somewhat familiar, though this new editor is a java program not a native apple app.  

The tile editor was built using the Jace NTSC video rendering routines -- so you can see exactly what kind of odd fringe colors will appear on the (simulated) TV screen rather than having to use a large magnifying glass.  Also, you get immediate feedback: As you edit the tile, the map view auto-updates.  The map view also has a google-maps style zoom in/out feature.  You can also zoom in up to 4x so you get an exploded view of the screen.  With this you can do all sorts of hi-res graphics editing to get more color/dither variations that were only done on a small set of games.

Some early test runs from Seth and I were able to get some very fantastic results, making me wonder why Ultima didn't have more colorful artwork.  We've been able to make tiles that look closer to the more vivid NES RPG games --ye

-B

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#731

[DOH, got sent before finishing]

We've been able to make tiles that look closer to the more vivid NES RPG games --yet we are still only using hi-res color and living with the limitations of that graphics mode.

I had previously considered doing a double-hires tile routine, and though it would be even more fantastic I fear that the memory usage would be way too high to fit everything in that Seth wants to do.  

For what it's worth though, the tile editor is somewhat platform agnostic, so DHGR isn't totally out of the question either.   The editor is agnostic because the eventual goal is portability.  The game should work on more than 8-bit //'s.  C64 and //gs ports come to mind -- so the tile editor will eventually be expanded to edit and show the map using tiles for each supported platform.

So DHGR is a possibility later, as is super-hires.  But because of the quality we can get from hi-res, taking into account the NTSC fringe colors and such, DHGR might not be all that additive in telling a story any better.  More vivid, sure, but would it make the game "Better"?   Not sure, actually.  The 15-year-old me would argue that DHGR is better.  But now I see it from a different angle.  It's the story that makes a _really_ good RPG and graphics aren't always everything.  Fitting in bigger maps and more character dialogue might be a better use of RAM.  Naturally in a //gs port it's not a big deal as memory is much more plentiful, so SHR graphics would be their own "thing."  :-)

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#732

On Sunday, 23 June 2013 11:14:27 UTC-7, Seth Sternberger  wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> My name is Seth Sternberger of the band 8 Bit Weapon. I was searching the web for Apple II fans and more importantly coders. My friend and I are building an Apple II rpg that will be ported over to PC/Mac but will still retain it's apple II look and feel.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how to program assembly for the Apple II? If so, would you be interested in helping us build a new Bard'staler/Ultima style RPG on the Apple II with us? We already have a tile/map editor built, but we still have a few other bits to sort out.
> 
> 
> 
> Please contact me if you are interested in participating, any amount is welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> 8bwinfo at gmail.com 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> Seth :)
> 
> www.8bitweapon.com

It sounds like some VM technology might be in your future.  Especially where absolute performance isn't a requirement.  Looks like you're off to a good start with Brendan's tile renderer.

Dave...

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#733

 
> It sounds like some VM technology might be in your future.  Especially where absolute performance isn't a requirement.  Looks like you're off to a good start with Brendan's tile renderer.


You wouldn't even need a VM routine.  Just load sprites, graphics and tables as you need them.  Now that we have emulators and flash drives, faster access from hard drives and size should make any game practically unlimited with just the animation routines in memory.

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#734

<gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote in message 
news:d23e398f-208f-4245-9e08-75bb035f4302@googlegroups.com...

> It sounds like some VM technology might be in your future.  Especially 
> where absolute performance isn't a requirement.  Looks like you're off to 
> a good start with Brendan's tile renderer.


You wouldn't even need a VM routine.  Just load sprites, graphics and tables 
as you need them.  Now that we have emulators and flash drives, faster 
access from hard drives and size should make any game practically unlimited 
with just the animation routines in memory.

=======

A VM makes porting much easier, since all you have to do is implement the VM 
and whatever hardware- and/or OS-specific routines are needed for graphics 
and file access. The core game code doesn't change at all.

The old 'Dragon Wars' game (sometimes referred to as 'The-Bard's-Tale-IV') 
was based on a VM. No difference in the game code itself between the C64 and 
IBM versions. So were the 'Wizardry I - V' games for Apple and C64 (could've 
easily done Atari as well if Sir-Tech had believed there was a market).

- Anton Treuenfels

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#735

"Anton Treuenfels" <teamtempest@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> news:d23e398f-208f-4245-9e08-75bb035f4302@googlegroups.com...
> 
>> It sounds like some VM technology might be in your future.  Especially >
>> where absolute performance isn't a requirement.  Looks like you're off
>> to > a good start with Brendan's tile renderer.
> 
> 
> You wouldn't even need a VM routine.  Just load sprites, graphics and
> tables as you need them.  Now that we have emulators and flash drives,
> faster access from hard drives and size should make any game practically
> unlimited with just the animation routines in memory.
> 
> =======
> 
> A VM makes porting much easier, since all you have to do is implement the
> VM and whatever hardware- and/or OS-specific routines are needed for
> graphics and file access. The core game code doesn't change at all.
> 
> The old 'Dragon Wars' game (sometimes referred to as
> 'The-Bard's-Tale-IV') was based on a VM. No difference in the game code
> itself between the C64 and IBM versions. So were the 'Wizardry I - V'
> games for Apple and C64 (could've easily done Atari as well if Sir-Tech
> had believed there was a market).
> 
> - Anton Treuenfels

I think we need to distinguish between Virtual Memory and Virtual Machine. 

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

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#736

On Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:00:32 AM UTC-7, mjm...@aol.com wrote:
> "Anton Treuenfels" <teamtempest@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > <gids.rs@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> 
> > news:d23e398f-208f-4245-9e08-75bb035f4302@googlegroups.com...
> 
> > 
> 
> >> It sounds like some VM technology might be in your future.  Especially >
> 
> >> where absolute performance isn't a requirement.  Looks like you're off
> 
> >> to > a good start with Brendan's tile renderer.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > You wouldn't even need a VM routine.  Just load sprites, graphics and
> 
> > tables as you need them.  Now that we have emulators and flash drives,
> 
> > faster access from hard drives and size should make any game practically
> 
> > unlimited with just the animation routines in memory.
> 
> > 
> 
> > =======
> 
> > 
> 
> > A VM makes porting much easier, since all you have to do is implement the
> 
> > VM and whatever hardware- and/or OS-specific routines are needed for
> 
> > graphics and file access. The core game code doesn't change at all.
> 
> > 
> 
> > The old 'Dragon Wars' game (sometimes referred to as
> 
> > 'The-Bard's-Tale-IV') was based on a VM. No difference in the game code
> 
> > itself between the C64 and IBM versions. So were the 'Wizardry I - V'
> 
> > games for Apple and C64 (could've easily done Atari as well if Sir-Tech
> 
> > had believed there was a market).
> 
> > 
> 
> > - Anton Treuenfels
> 
> 
> 
> I think we need to distinguish between Virtual Memory and Virtual Machine. 
> 
> 
> 
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

Very true - I had Virtual Machine in mind, but should have made it clear.

Dave...

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#737

>>
>> I think we need to distinguish between Virtual Memory and Virtual 
>> Machine.
>>

Sorry - I just recall David writing several Virtual Machines and simply 
assumed that's what he meant.

- Anton Treuenfels 

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