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Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations

From Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
Newsgroups comp.std.c
Subject Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations
Date 2020-05-08 21:15 +0200
Organization solani.org
Message-ID <r94b4r$c3e$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References <r8uo2j$4l2$1@solani.org> <86k11nzy2f.fsf@linuxsc.com> <r91o2q$djg$1@solani.org> <867dxmz1tt.fsf@linuxsc.com>

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Am 08.05.20 um 21:03 schrieb Tim Rentsch:
> 
>    * Supporting int has no runtime footprint costs even on
>      pretty tiny processors.  Functions in <string.h> often do.
> 
>    […]
> 
> Second, the use of "easily" is too glib.  You haven't made any
> effort, at least not that I can see, to quantify the cost on
> implementations to comply with the suggested additions.  (Also,
> the proposal is a bit vague about exactly what /is/ being
> suggested, and this deficiency needs to be corrected before
> the proposal should receive any further serious attention.)
> 

SDCC is a pretty simple C implementation in most aspects (there is some
fancy stuff in register allocation, but that is irrelevant to what we
are discussing here), that targets various small devices, down to
microcontrollers like the Padauk PMS15A (priced at about 0.01€ when
bought in quantities of 10, has 64 B of RAM, 0.5 KW of 13-bit wide
program memory). The linker is very simple and can't do anything fancy.

The standard library that comes with SDCC provides the full set of
string.h functions from the latest standard draft.
As long as none of these functions is used, none of it gets linked into
the final binary.

Thus, clearly the functions in string.h can be easily implemented in a
way that there is no runtime footprint for unused functions. And for
used functions, I don't see any reason why requiring the user to roll
their own implementation should result in any resource savings.

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Thread

Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 18:19 +0200
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 16:47 +0000
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 19:16 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 18:10 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-06 15:10 -0400
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 16:08 -0400
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-06 13:22 -0700
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 22:29 -0400
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 15:43 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-07 06:08 -0700
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:36 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 20:57 +0000
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-06 23:25 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 21:34 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:17 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:45 +0300
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:16 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-07 21:39 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:44 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-05-07 12:54 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-08 08:38 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:30 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-30 02:04 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-08-04 10:58 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 07:35 -0700
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:34 +0200
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 09:13 +0300
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:47 +0300
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 15:51 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-08 10:09 +0300
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2020-05-08 18:48 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2020-05-08 17:01 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 08:59 +0300
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-07 06:14 -0700
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:38 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-08 12:03 -0700
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:15 +0200
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:27 +0200
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2020-05-15 15:13 +0200
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 00:25 +0200

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