Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations

From	Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>
Newsgroups	comp.std.c, comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations
Followup-To	comp.std.c
Date	2020-05-08 18:48 +0200
Message-ID	<87pnbetlt2.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> (permalink)
References	<r8uo2j$4l2$1@solani.org> <r8upn1$89t$1@reader2.panix.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.std.c

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* Grant Edwards:

> On 2020-05-06, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> wrote:
>
>> In C, most of the standard library is mandatory for hosted
>> implementations only, not for freestadning implementations.  Still,
>> I see many functions, such as memcpy() and abs() often used in
>> programs for embedded systems, and see no obstacles to implementing
>> them even on small systems.
>>
>> Should more of the standard library become mandatory for
>> freestanding implementations?
>
> No.  Just No.  For use on small embedded systems, there must be a
> "bare metal" option that requires no standard library functions.

Why?  Why would the link editor copy unreferenced functions in the
standard library?

My concern would that an implementation that takes this proposal
seriously would make it impossible to test different implementations
of these functions without patching the language implementation itself
(rather just overriding the functions).  So language implementations
would likely continue to provide something like -ffreestanding.

Thread

Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 18:19 +0200
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 16:47 +0000
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 19:16 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 18:10 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-05-06 15:10 -0400
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 16:08 -0400
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-05-06 13:22 -0700
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-05-06 22:29 -0400
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-07 15:43 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-07 06:08 -0700
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:36 +0200
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 20:57 +0000
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-06 23:25 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-06 21:34 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:17 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:45 +0300
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 10:16 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2020-05-07 21:39 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:44 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2020-05-07 12:54 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-08 08:38 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:30 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-30 02:04 -0700
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-08-04 10:58 +0200
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-04 07:35 -0700
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-06 22:34 +0200
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 09:13 +0300
            Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-07 18:47 +0300
              Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2020-05-07 15:51 +0000
                Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2020-05-08 10:09 +0300
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2020-05-08 18:48 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2020-05-08 17:01 +0000
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 20:05 +0200
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations upsidedown@downunder.com - 2020-05-07 08:59 +0300
  Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-07 06:14 -0700
    Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-07 21:38 +0200
      Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-05-08 12:03 -0700
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:15 +0200
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-05-08 21:27 +0200
          Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2020-05-15 15:13 +0200
        Re: Making more of the C standard library mandatory for freestanding implementations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-05-09 00:25 +0200

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