Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.software-eng > #3510

Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering

From Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math, comp.software-eng
Subject Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering
Message-ID <20220703164543.00004b55@reddwarf.jmc> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <avudncmA4ZtwX13_nZ2dnUU7_8xh4p2d@giganews.com> <20220703152751.00001f74@reddwarf.jmc> <Y72dndpURKjqM1z_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <20220703162148.00001389@reddwarf.jmc> <Eqednf7muZ26K1z_nZ2dnUU7_81g4p2d@giganews.com>
Organization Jupiter Mining Corp
Date 2022-07-03 16:45 +0100

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

Show all headers | View raw


On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:30:45 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 7/3/2022 10:21 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 09:57:57 -0500
> > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 7/3/2022 9:27 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:13:01 -0500
> >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> On 7/2/2022 5:05 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:26:45 -0500
> >>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>         
> >>>>>> On 7/2/2022 1:44 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:41:14 -0500
> >>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>            
> >>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 1:28 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 12:30:03 -0500
> >>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 12:26 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 12:15:58 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 12:10 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:42:48 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>                     
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2022 11:26 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 10:34:34 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                        
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This much more concise version of my paper focuses on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the actual execution of three fully operational
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H0 correctly determines that Infinite_Loop() never
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts H correctly determines that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion() never halts H correctly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determines that P() never halts
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void P(u32 x)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            if (H(x, x))
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              HERE: goto HERE;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            return;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (u32)P)); }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As shown below the above P and H have the required
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (halting problem) pathological relationship to each
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               For any program H that might determine
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if programs halt, a "pathological"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               program P, called with some input, can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pass its own source and its input to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               H and then specifically do the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opposite of what H predicts P will do. No H
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>               can exist that handles this case.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really need software engineers to verify that H
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does correctly predict that its complete and correct
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x86 emulation of its input would never reach the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "ret" instruction of this input.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> software engineering*
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361701808_Halting_problem_proofs_refuted_on_the_basis_of_software_engineering
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Px(u32 x)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            H(x, x);
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            return;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>            Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Px,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (u32)Px)); }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...[000013e8][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> esp,+08 ...[000013eb][00102353][00000000] 50
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push eax ...[000013ec][0010234f][00000427] 6827040000
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push 00000427 ---[000013f1][0010234f][00000427]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e880f0ffff call 00000476 Input_Halts = 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...[000013f6][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> esp,+08 ...[000013f9][00102357][00000000] 33c0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> xor eax,eax ...[000013fb][0010235b][00100000] 5d
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      pop ebp ...[000013fc][0010235f][00000004] c3
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ret Number of Instructions Executed(16120)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As can be seen above Olcott's H decides that Px does
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not halt but it is obvious that Px should always halt
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if H is a valid halt decider that always returns a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision to its caller (Px). Olcott's H does not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return a decision to its caller (Px) and is thus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invalid.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                        
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your false assumptions are directly contradicted by the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics of the x86 programming language.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *x86 Instruction Set Reference*  https://c9x.me/x86/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Px(u32 x)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>           H(x, x);
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>           return;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>           Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Px,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (u32)Px)); }
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _Px()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001192](01)  55         push ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001193](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001195](03)  8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001198](01)  50         push eax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001199](03)  8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000119c](01)  51         push ecx
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000119d](05)  e8d0fdffff call 00000f72
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011a2](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011a5](01)  5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011a6](01)  c3         ret
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0021) [000011a6]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _main()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011d2](01)  55         push ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011d3](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011d5](05)  6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011da](05)  6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011df](05)  e88efdffff call 00000f72
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e4](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e7](01)  50         push eax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e8](05)  68a3040000 push 000004a3
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011ed](05)  e800f3ffff call 000004f2
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f2](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f5](02)  33c0       xor eax,eax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f7](01)  5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f8](01)  c3         ret
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0039) [000011f8]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>          machine   stack     stack     machine
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assembly address   address   data      code
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> language ========  ========  ========  =========
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ============= [000011d2][00101f7f][00000000] 55
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> push ebp [000011d3][00101f7f][00000000] 8bec       mov
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebp,esp [000011d5][00101f7b][00001192] 6892110000 push
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00001192 [000011da][00101f77][00001192] 6892110000 push
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00001192 [000011df][00101f73][000011e4] e88efdffff call
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00000f72
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> H: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11202b
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Address_of_H:f72
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001192][00112017][0011201b] 55         push ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001193][00112017][0011201b] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001195][00112017][0011201b] 8b4508     mov
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> eax,[ebp+08] [00001198][00112013][00001192] 50
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> push eax      // push Px [00001199][00112013][00001192]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000119c][0011200f][00001192] 51         push ecx
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> // push Px [0000119d][0011200b][000011a2] e8d0fdffff
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> call 00000f72 // call H(Px,Px) H: Infinitely Recursive
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulation Detected Simulation Stopped
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> H knows its own machine address and on this basis it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can easily examine its stored execution_trace of Px
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (see above) to determine: (a) Px is calling H with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same arguments that H was called with. (b) No
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions in Px could possibly escape this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise infinitely recursive emulation. (c) H aborts
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> its emulation of Px before its call to H is emulated.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e4][00101f7f][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e7][00101f7b][00000000] 50         push eax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011e8][00101f77][000004a3] 68a3040000 push 000004a3
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011ed][00101f77][000004a3] e800f3ffff call 000004f2
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Input_Halts = 0
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f2][00101f7f][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f5][00101f7f][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f7][00101f83][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [000011f8][00101f87][00000000] c3         ret
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(880) == 13 Pages  
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>         
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If H wasn't a simulation-based halting decider then Px()
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would always halt; the infinite recursion is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> manifestation of your invalid simulation-based halting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> decider.  There is no recursion in [Strachey 1965].
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble  
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are rejecting the concept of a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider even though I conclusively proved
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that it does correctly determine the halt status of: (see
> >>>>>>>>>>>> my new paper)  
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> No I am rejecting your simulating halt decider as it gets
> >>>>>>>>>>> the answer wrong for Px() which is not a pathological
> >>>>>>>>>>> input. Px() halts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>>>>>                  
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I just proved that H(Px,Px) does correctly predict that its
> >>>>>>>>>> complete and correct x86 emulation of its input would never
> >>>>>>>>>> reach the "ret" instruction of this input because of the
> >>>>>>>>>> pathological relationship between H and Px.  
> >>>>>>>>>       
> >>>>>>>>> Wrong. Px() is not a pathological input as defined by the
> >>>>>>>>> halting problem and [Strachey 1965] as it does not try to do
> >>>>>>>>> the opposite of what H decides.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>>>               
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Your lack of comprehension does not actually count as any
> >>>>>>>> rebuttal at all.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> void P(u32 x)
> >>>>>>>>       {
> >>>>>>>>        if (H(x, x))
> >>>>>>>>          HERE: goto HERE;
> >>>>>>>>        return;
> >>>>>>>>       }
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>>>       {
> >>>>>>>>        Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
> >>>>>>>>       }
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As shown below the above P and H have the required (halting
> >>>>>>>> problem) pathological relationship to each other:  
> >>>>>>> [snip]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> P does but Px does not. I am talking about Px not P.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> void Px(u32 x)
> >>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>        H(x, x);
> >>>>>>>        return;
> >>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>        Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Px, (u32)Px));
> >>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ...[000013e8][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add esp,+08
> >>>>>>> ...[000013eb][00102353][00000000] 50              push eax
> >>>>>>> ...[000013ec][0010234f][00000427] 6827040000      push
> >>>>>>> 00000427 ---[000013f1][0010234f][00000427] e880f0ffff
> >>>>>>> call 00000476 Input_Halts = 0
> >>>>>>> ...[000013f6][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add esp,+08
> >>>>>>> ...[000013f9][00102357][00000000] 33c0            xor eax,eax
> >>>>>>> ...[000013fb][0010235b][00100000] 5d              pop ebp
> >>>>>>> ...[000013fc][0010235f][00000004] c3              ret
> >>>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(16120)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As can be seen above Olcott's H decides that Px does not halt
> >>>>>>> but it is obvious that Px should always halt if H is a valid
> >>>>>>> halt decider that always returns a decision to its caller
> >>>>>>> (Px). Olcott's H does not return a decision to its caller
> >>>>>>> (Px) and is thus invalid.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>            
> >>>>>>        
> >>>>>>     >  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your false assumptions are directly contradicted by the
> >>>>>> semantics of the x86 programming language.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *x86 Instruction Set Reference*  https://c9x.me/x86/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> void Px(u32 x)
> >>>>>> {
> >>>>>>       H(x, x);
> >>>>>>       return;
> >>>>>> }
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>> {
> >>>>>>       Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Px, (u32)Px));
> >>>>>> }
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _Px()
> >>>>>> [00001192](01)  55         push ebp
> >>>>>> [00001193](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>> [00001195](03)  8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>> [00001198](01)  50         push eax
> >>>>>> [00001199](03)  8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>> [0000119c](01)  51         push ecx
> >>>>>> [0000119d](05)  e8d0fdffff call 00000f72
> >>>>>> [000011a2](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>> [000011a5](01)  5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>> [000011a6](01)  c3         ret
> >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0021) [000011a6]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _main()
> >>>>>> [000011d2](01)  55         push ebp
> >>>>>> [000011d3](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>> [000011d5](05)  6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>> [000011da](05)  6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>> [000011df](05)  e88efdffff call 00000f72
> >>>>>> [000011e4](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>> [000011e7](01)  50         push eax
> >>>>>> [000011e8](05)  68a3040000 push 000004a3
> >>>>>> [000011ed](05)  e800f3ffff call 000004f2
> >>>>>> [000011f2](03)  83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>> [000011f5](02)  33c0       xor eax,eax
> >>>>>> [000011f7](01)  5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>> [000011f8](01)  c3         ret
> >>>>>> Size in bytes:(0039) [000011f8]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
> >>>>>>      address   address   data      code       language
> >>>>>>      ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
> >>>>>> [000011d2][00101f7f][00000000] 55         push ebp
> >>>>>> [000011d3][00101f7f][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>> [000011d5][00101f7b][00001192] 6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>> [000011da][00101f77][00001192] 6892110000 push 00001192
> >>>>>> [000011df][00101f73][000011e4] e88efdffff call 00000f72
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> H: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11202b
> >>>>>> Address_of_H:f72
> >>>>>> [00001192][00112017][0011201b] 55         push ebp
> >>>>>> [00001193][00112017][0011201b] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> >>>>>> [00001195][00112017][0011201b] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>> [00001198][00112013][00001192] 50         push eax      // push
> >>>>>> Px [00001199][00112013][00001192] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> >>>>>> [0000119c][0011200f][00001192] 51         push ecx      // push
> >>>>>> Px [0000119d][0011200b][000011a2] e8d0fdffff call 00000f72 //
> >>>>>> call H(Px,Px) H: Infinitely Recursive Simulation Detected
> >>>>>> Simulation Stopped
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> H knows its own machine address and on this basis it can easily
> >>>>>> examine its stored execution_trace of Px (see above) to
> >>>>>> determine: (a) Px is calling H with the same arguments that H
> >>>>>> was called with. (b) No instructions in Px could possibly
> >>>>>> escape this otherwise infinitely recursive emulation.
> >>>>>> (c) H aborts its emulation of Px before its call to H is
> >>>>>> emulated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [000011e4][00101f7f][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>> [000011e7][00101f7b][00000000] 50         push eax
> >>>>>> [000011e8][00101f77][000004a3] 68a3040000 push 000004a3
> >>>>>> [000011ed][00101f77][000004a3] e800f3ffff call 000004f2
> >>>>>> Input_Halts = 0
> >>>>>> [000011f2][00101f7f][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
> >>>>>> [000011f5][00101f7f][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
> >>>>>> [000011f7][00101f83][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
> >>>>>> [000011f8][00101f87][00000000] c3         ret
> >>>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(880) == 13 Pages  
> >>>>>     
> >>>>> I see you wish to pointlessly go around in circles. Oh well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Px() is not a pathological input as defined by the halting
> >>>>> problem and [Strachey 1965] as it does not try to do the
> >>>>> opposite of what H decides.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Px() always halts so your H gets the answer wrong.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Flibble  
> >>>>
> >>>> I found that my reply did not make it to all the groups so I
> >>>> posted it again.
> >>>>
> >>>> *This general principle refutes conventional halting problem
> >>>> proofs* Every simulating halt decider that correctly simulates
> >>>> its input until it correctly predicts that this simulated input
> >>>> would never reach its final state, correctly rejects this input
> >>>> as non-halting.  
> >>>
> >>> Your H does not "correctly predict" that Px() does reach its final
> >>> state and so should accept the input as halting.
> >>>
> >>> /Flibble
> >>>      
> >>
> >> (x86 Instruction Set Reference* https://c9x.me/x86/
> >>
> >> The semantics of the x86 language conclusively proves that the
> >> above code is correct. People that disagree with verified facts
> >> are either incompetent or liars. Since you cannot even understand
> >> that the return statement in Px is unreachable code, (to every
> >> simulating halt decider H) you would be incompetent.  
> >   
> > Not EVERY simulating halt decider, only YOURS gets the answer wrong.
> > Px() halts.
> > 
> > /Flibble
> >   
> 
> Since you cannot even understand that the return statement in Px is 
> unreachable code, (to *every simulating halt* decider H) you would be 
> incompetent.
 
Not at all. If I was to design a simulating halt decider then rather
than aborting the simulation at the point where P()/Px() calls H I
would instead fork the simulation, returning 0 to one branch (the
non-halting branch) and 1 to the other branch (the halting branch) and
then continue to simulate both branches in parallel thereby getting rid
of the "infinite recursion".

/Flibble

Back to comp.software-eng | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 10:34 -0500
  Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-02 17:26 +0100
    Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 11:42 -0500
      Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 12:15 -0500
        Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-02 18:26 +0100
          Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 12:30 -0500
            Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-02 19:28 +0100
              Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 13:41 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-02 19:44 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 16:26 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-02 23:05 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-02 17:13 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-03 15:27 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-03 09:57 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-03 16:21 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-03 10:30 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-03 16:45 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-03 10:48 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-03 16:51 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-03 11:05 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-03 17:07 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 11:57 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 14:17 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 14:21 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 18:08 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 14:31 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 15:42 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-05 19:29 -0400
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 19:01 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-06 16:13 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-07 16:08 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-07 20:34 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-07 23:48 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Irrefutably Correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-09 13:40 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Irrefutably Correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-09 15:06 -0400
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 19:50 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [ Curry–Howard correspondence ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 21:37 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 07:59 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-05 08:00 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-05 19:31 -0400
  Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-13 14:37 -0500
    Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-13 15:51 -0500
      Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-13 19:10 -0500
        Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-13 21:29 -0400
    Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-13 19:29 -0400
    Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-15 11:26 -0500
      Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-16 19:18 -0500
        Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-16 20:38 -0400
          Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-16 20:19 -0500
      Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [thanks Mike] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-17 12:00 -0500
        Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering [thanks Mike] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-17 13:06 -0400

csiph-web