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Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection

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Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:

> Even best of the best programmers cannot improve quality of C code beyond
> certain (quite low) level.

Dan Berstein ?  More generally, I don't think there's an upper limit to code 
quality in any language (except in the trivial sense), and that includes C.


> The problem is that you consider programming as a kind of art, so the idea
> is basically achieving whatever goals by fixing people (programmers)
> rather than tools (languages). You cannot ensure any properties dealing
> with arts. It is a dead end.

I suspect it always will be a kind of art.

Reasons:

1) because anything aspect of a activity that can be turned into "engineering" 
can -- by definition -- be automated.

2) the complexity wall (as I've heard it called) -- programming is /only/ 
limited by our ability to manage the compexity of what we do, so -- no matter 
what tools or techniques we use to decrease the complexity (including 
engineering discipline) -- we will always use up the advantage gained thereby 
in attempting even more complex programming tasks.


> Programming will never become engineering with languages like C.

FWIW, the nearest I've heard of to programming as "engineering" (at least some 
aspects of that concept) have used C.  Probably because with C the need for 
iron discipline is most apparent, and the gains from it (if any) are also most 
apparent.

    -- chris 

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Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Heidi Brayer <hap1026@gmail.com> - 2014-08-26 09:11 -0700
  Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-26 18:54 +0200
    Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-08-26 18:16 +0100
      Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-26 19:35 +0200
        Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-08-26 18:59 +0100
          Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-26 21:26 +0200
            Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-08-26 20:33 +0100
              Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-26 21:50 +0200
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-08-26 21:41 +0100
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 10:21 +0200
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-08-27 10:27 +0100
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 11:51 +0200
        Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-08-26 20:39 +0200
          Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-08-26 20:13 +0100
          Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-26 21:38 +0200
            Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-08-26 23:11 +0200
              Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 09:50 +0200
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-08-27 10:16 +0100
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 12:15 +0200
                Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-08-27 14:40 +0100
            Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-08-27 10:13 +0100
              Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 14:06 +0200
            Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-08-27 10:32 +0100
              Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2014-08-27 12:14 +0200
        Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection "Chris M. Thomasson" <no@spam.invalid> - 2014-08-26 14:06 -0700
      Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2014-08-26 20:16 +0200
        Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2014-08-30 09:20 -0700
  Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Jongware <jongware@no-spam.plz> - 2014-09-15 10:47 +0200
    Re: Research to Create Automated Buffer Overflow Protection Richard Heathfield <invalid@see.sig.invalid> - 2014-09-15 10:46 +0100

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