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Re: Modern Trash

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 26/09/17 12:37, William Elliot wrote:
>> Then why can't I configure Thunderbird not to interpret the HTML in 
>> incoming emails? (I'm not saying it can't be done - but I've tried 
>> damned hard and not managed it yet.)
> 
> Pine allows enriched header which shows the routing information of the 
> email and also HTML, a pesky language to write without assisting 
> software.  TeX is like that and there's no assisting software.
> I've a pseudo TeX language that could easily be complied into
> basic TeX - the fancy stuff isn't really needed

Plain TeX is not often used directly - people mostly prefer higher-level
packages like LaTeX or AMSTeX.  TeX is designed in such a way that you
can make packages like that - it is one of the uses of the "fancy stuff".

Oh, and while /you/ might not need the "fancy stuff", other people do.
I make heavy use of macros, boxes, references, and the like.

I am still with Richard, however, in preferring utf-8 characters
directly in a Usenet post rather than \cap and the like.  For a nice
maths document, you want LaTeX to get the symbols sized well, with good
spacing - for a quick Usenet post you just want to convey the information.

> 
> With the web, fancy stuff gets in the way and makes 
> some sites unworthy to be read and others unreadable.
> 
>> No, plain text is not implemented by all software, at least not in the
>> way I would like.
>>
>> Look, in one important sense you're right - plain text is a much 
>> better option, *when available*. But markup isn't what I would call 
>> "plain text". Plain text is simply not an available option when the 
>> message you need to convey is not representable in plain text 
>> (except, of course, that you can spend ages spelling out the formula 
>> instead of using the usual symbols).
> 
> In the plain text math groups, plain text math symbols evolved
> and were very useful.  I easily learned and taught a lot of math 
> that way.  Now that I'm forced to be modernized, my productivity 
> has fallen significantly because modern stuff it too complicated to 
> be efficient, wasting, for example, lots of time getting it to read 
> easily.  
> 
> Windows is a disaster, taking control of your computer away from you;  
> treating you like a dummy;  making using a computer harder and now, 
> not including any manuals or manuals with coverage so scant not even a 
> strip tease artist would cover themselves with it.  I'm shocked it 
> became a world standard.

Yeah, well, you just have to get used to it.  Most people who are
familiar with non-Windows systems think Windows is a disaster.  And
nothing has done more to reduce the quality of typesetting than the
spread of MS Word.  But moaning about the "good old days", and telling
us how "when I were a lad we carved our own potatoes when we wanted to
print mathematics" does not help.  And certainly missing out on useful
"new" technology like Unicode does not help - unless your aim is to
convince people you have refused to learn anything in the last couple of
decades.

Use tools that work best in the circumstances.  For maths symbols on
Usenet, that is Unicode in utf-8 encoding.  For maths symbols in typeset
documents, that is usually some form of TeX - unless compatibility with
non-TeXies means using Word or LibreOffice.

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on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-18 12:51 -0300
  Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-18 20:40 +0100
    Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-18 21:39 -0700
      Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-19 13:05 +0100
        Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-19 19:47 -0700
          Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-20 14:28 +0100
            Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-20 21:06 -0700
              Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-21 17:03 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-21 15:06 -0300
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-21 21:24 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-21 17:57 -0300
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-21 23:40 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-21 20:45 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-23 02:27 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-22 19:49 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-09-23 08:04 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-23 08:41 -0300
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2017-09-24 14:00 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-23 14:50 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-23 22:04 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-09-24 07:39 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-25 01:13 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-09-25 09:46 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-25 21:38 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-09-26 10:19 +0100
                Modern Trash William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-26 03:37 -0700
                Re: Modern Trash David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-26 12:52 +0200
                Re: Modern Trash Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-09-26 23:10 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-24 22:33 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-25 01:08 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 20:44 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-25 21:36 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-26 12:04 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-26 23:15 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-27 12:52 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory William Elliot <marsh@panix.com> - 2017-09-27 19:55 -0700
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-09-24 16:55 +0000
        Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-22 10:23 +0200
          Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-22 21:18 +0100
            Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-23 08:48 -0300
            Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 10:17 +0200
              Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-25 07:31 -0300
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-25 13:30 +0200
              Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-25 20:32 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-26 10:12 +0200
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-26 11:53 +0100
                Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-26 13:24 +0200
    Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-19 16:21 -0300
      Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-20 17:43 +0100
        Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-21 16:20 -0300
          Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-21 17:52 -0300
          Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-09-21 22:02 +0100
            Re: on cut edges and bonds, graph theory Daniel Bastos <dbastos@toledo.com> - 2017-09-23 13:42 -0300

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