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Re: How to get one interested in programming!

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In article <xoGdnSjJmdaHHJHTnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Patricia Shanahan  <pats@acm.org> wrote:
> On 6/30/2011 1:39 AM, Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote:
> ...
> > There are mental differences between males and females. To wit, very few
> > programmers (or mathematicians, or physicists, or ...) are females.
> > Whatever the cause -- my personal theory has to do with how the brain
> > forms models of things, for females more purely associative models that
> > cannot easily be "run" or "evolved" -- it means that you *probably* have
> > an uphill battle.
> >
> > I think the key must be to adapt your approach to the individual at
> > hand. Use examples that at least in some aspects touch on things that
> > she's interested in. Familiarity may be crucial (you state that she's
> > scared by "think language books"), so perhaps start with web pages and
> > such, and a bit of JavaScript.
> >
> > Perhaps then Python and turtle graphics.
> >
> > Be patient, and be flexible. Remember the statistics about female
> > programmers. Depending on the individual, what you're trying *may* be an
> > unnatural act.
> ...
> 
> Programming is an unnatural act for everyone. Cave men didn't do any
> more programming than cave women. It is always a learned skill, not an
> instinct, or even something like natural languages for which we have a
> built-in learning skill.
> 
> When I got my first programming job, in 1970, many programmers were
> women. Indeed, some of the best programmers I've ever met, including
> Grace Hopper, were female. I would not have wanted to be the person to
> try to tell her that her brain structure might be inherently unsuited
> for programming.
> 
> The programming-as-a-boy-thing nonsense only appeared after it became
> apparent that programming was important and a good career choice. Women
> were considered fine at it when it was a small, esoteric, and not
> particularly well paid field.

Good heavens -- that's more strongly worded than your usual post,
Dr. Shanahan!  As another female in this mostly-male field, though,
I say "sing it, sister!"

> Early exposure to programming is no more necessary than being male. I
> didn't write my first program until I was almost 18, and only did enough
> programming to decide I liked it before getting my first programming
> job. I worked in the computer industry, as a programmer and computer
> architect, for over 30 years. I have both a master's degree and a
> doctorate in computer science, and was an inventor on half a dozen
> computer design patents.

My career has been less illustrious than yours but otherwise is
not so different:  I also had no exposure to programming before
I signed up for a first CS course in 1970-something (but then, in
those days who did?).  I also didn't really get interested until I'd
taken a second course and done a bit of coding in what we'd now call
IT-related jobs.  At some point I discovered that programming was
something I liked and seemed able to do pretty well, and that there
were jobs ....  Eventually I also went back to school for advanced
degrees and currently am employed teaching CS at a small university.

Anyway, I also have been dismayed to watch the field evolve from "no
entrenched gender bias" to its current state.  My pet theory about
how that came about involves computer games and who they appeal to.
Yours is more cynical but maybe more plausible.  I like it.

> I agree with rossum's practical advice, for anyone, male or female,
> wanting to pick up programming. Work from existing interests. Separate
> learning to represent tasks in terms of smaller tasks from learning the
> syntax of a language.
> 
> Above all, tell her that she can do it, not that she can't. The
> teacher's belief that the student can learn is important for learning
> anything.

Another "sing it".

A bit more anecdotal evidence, or something:

In my years at my CPOE, I've taught beginning programming a few
times.  Some students come in with prior exposure to programming,
and teaching them is mostly a matter of improving their skills and
possibly adding another language to their skillsets.  But the ones
with no prior experience -- teaching them is *HARD*, because as
you say, programming is "an unnatural act for everyone".  Many of
the students who come in with no prior exposure are also taking
the course solely to meet a degree requirement, and some of those
are non-STEM [*] types taking it to meet a science requirement.

[*] Is this acronym known outside academia?  If not:  science / 
technology / engineering / math.

The non-STEM types in particular -- male and female both -- are
apt to find the experience painful and unpleasant.  But you never
know:  One semester one of my students was a young woman in the last
semester of a degree in marketing or such, and while she didn't find
the course easy, she really seemed to enjoy it, and -- well, it's
too bad we didn't get her earlier?  (Those of us who like to code
are apt to think that once you show people how much fun programming
can be, at least a few of them will want to stick with it.  So we
think of that first course as a potential recruitment tool.  :-)? )

As for what kinds of programs to have beginning students write ....
I think it varies.  Some students will be happy with the kinds
of programs traditionally assigned in first courses, ones where
the primary motivation is pedagogical rather than, say, "I really
want a program to do X -- can I write one?"  You might as well try
the traditional problems first, because your student *might* get
interested (that marketing major did!); if not then maybe trying
a different approach would be worthwhile.  No specific suggestions
on that, alas; I don't really know either!

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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Thread

How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 22:49 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 10:39 +0200
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-30 06:58 -0700
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 23:17 +0200
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 19:28 +0000
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:09 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 00:45 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2011-06-30 10:18 +0100
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 00:49 -0700
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-01 05:19 -0700
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:26 -0700
          Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-03 06:38 -0700
            Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-03 09:03 -0700
              Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:29 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! Joe Wright <joewwright@comcast.net> - 2011-07-03 20:04 -0400
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-07-03 17:06 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 22:17 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 04:31 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-07-11 22:23 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 00:32 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-12 00:50 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 00:36 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-12 00:52 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 23:39 +0000
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2011-07-02 11:46 +0100
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:27 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:51 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 09:52 -0400
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:50 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! Jongware <jongware@no-spam.plz> - 2011-06-30 17:05 +0200
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:16 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! JJ <jaejunks@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-01 02:31 +0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:20 -0700
  Re: How to get one interested in programming! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-03 12:02 +0200
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:07 -0700

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