Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #33436 > unrolled thread
| Started by | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-10-21 00:06 -0400 |
| Last post | 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 108 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-21 00:06 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-21 08:27 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-21 08:04 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 02:08 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:41 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:39 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:39 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:14 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 13:08 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 22:43 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 04:32 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:21 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 13:45 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 14:54 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 21:47 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 23:14 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 01:25 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2021-10-31 04:12 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:57 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:35 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 15:47 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-01 04:44 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:13 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-01 22:05 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 01:26 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-03 07:02 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-05 00:54 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:46 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-05 09:26 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 01:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-31 10:26 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:52 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:00 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2021-11-05 17:58 +1100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 01:11 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:39 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-28 14:25 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 14:49 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:07 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 08:13 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:28 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:24 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-28 08:15 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:36 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-29 09:59 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-30 01:49 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:59 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:53 +0100
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 01:04 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:34 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 19:09 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 23:58 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:39 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:36 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 11:23 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-07 12:15 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-07 13:55 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-07 07:59 -0800
Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-11 20:12 +0000
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-11-11 20:21 +0000
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-11-11 15:52 -0500
Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-11 21:19 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:31 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2021-10-31 00:18 +0000
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:06 -0400
Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-31 07:55 -0700
Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400
Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next page →
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-29 09:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <slgd5q$c9i$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33455 |
On 29/10/2021 06:36, 1p166 wrote: > The trick is "it" ... the way to organize thinking to > achieve "personhood". We don't know what "it" is. If > we did, proper AI could surely be achieved with a lot > less hardware than we currently believe. Well we do. Or some people do. At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! Circular argument. Awareness itself implies an entity that is aware, and something other than itself it becomes aware of. And some invisible intangible entity that makes it all happen. Cf Schopenhauer 'The world as Will, and Representation'. Personhood emerges as half of the pair of the 'observer' and the 'observed' - the nature of the world you end up perceiving is the nature of the human being that observes it. The real question, is there anything beyond that that would allow you to choose what person you are, and hence subtly alter the nature of the world you perceive? Many would assert that there is, and that is what 'it' is... -- “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de M. de Voltaire
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pFVeJ.5858$QB1.719@fx42.iad> |
| In reply to | #33456 |
On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 29/10/2021 06:36, 1p166 wrote: > >> The trick is "it" ... the way to organize thinking to >> achieve "personhood". We don't know what "it" is. If >> we did, proper AI could surely be achieved with a lot >> less hardware than we currently believe. > > Well we do. Or some people do. > > At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a > model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is > reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they > have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their > awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-30 01:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <LNKdnReysqJAQeH8nZ2dnUU7-K_NnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #33459 |
On 10/29/21 12:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 29/10/2021 06:36, 1p166 wrote: >> >>> The trick is "it" ... the way to organize thinking to >>> achieve "personhood". We don't know what "it" is. If >>> we did, proper AI could surely be achieved with a lot >>> less hardware than we currently believe. >> >> Well we do. Or some people do. >> >> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a >> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is >> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they >> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their >> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! > > Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. Agreed. "It" is NOT going to be easy, NOT anything derived by simple models. Darwin (eventually) did it - but only after 4 billion years, and sort of by accident. Pea-brained is the natural norm, JUST enough to find the next thing to eat. Back in the day, Minsky was predicting proper AI was imminent. In Society Of Mind he went on and on about how super-simple circuits could do IF/THEN logical evaluations. What he DIDN'T consider was the petabytes of crap needed to prep the data for that final IF/THEN circuit. The HAL-9000 was a product of Minski's optimism. Sorry, many decades later and nothing even CLOSE. Marv USED to post on Usenet ... before it became disrespectable ..... Anyway, I strongly intuit that "It" is out there. Once you have the necessary volume of hardware the trick is how to organize it to produce the desired effect. Nature offers some clues, but perhaps the best way might not to be emulating nature so closely, making fake neural nets. Perhaps hardware as it is offers different routes to a similar result ?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-30 07:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <sliqgi$jss$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33463 |
On 30/10/2021 06:49, 1p166 wrote: > Anyway, I strongly intuit that "It" is out there. > Once you have the necessary volume of hardware the > trick is how to organize it to produce the desired > effect. Nature offers some clues, but perhaps the > best way might not to be emulating nature so closely, > making fake neural nets. Perhaps hardware as it is > offers different routes to a similar result ? Well it could be argued that that is simply and example of a seriously warped worldview that thinks that software is an emergent property of hardware. When there is just as good a case for saying that human wise, the hardware is an emergent property of the software. And the so called 'material world' is simply a GUI that we have *constructed* in order to make it easier to interface with 'whatever the fuck it really is' (to paraphrase Kant) Quantum physics not only does not refute this proposition, it actually reinforces it. -- "Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) " Alan Sokal
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-10-30 07:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <sliq54$ib3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33459 |
On 29/10/2021 17:52, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 29/10/2021 06:36, 1p166 wrote: >> >>> The trick is "it" ... the way to organize thinking to >>> achieve "personhood". We don't know what "it" is. If >>> we did, proper AI could surely be achieved with a lot >>> less hardware than we currently believe. >> >> Well we do. Or some people do. >> >> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a >> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is >> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they >> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their >> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! > > Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. > Warped with respect to what? A couple of decades inquiry into the matter shows that there is no way to establish what the One True Model of Reality looks like. And those that think they are in possession of it are no less deluded than anyone else. My conclusion is that *any* model will do, provided it is not so dysfunctional as to result in death before procreation. I.e. Darwin rules: The world we think we live in, is simply a view that has developed over thousands of years in the struggle to survive. Hence my support for conservatism. "It worked for me da, so it will probably work for me" Critical Rat Theory, which believes that rats in fact are superior, but have been held back by white male dominated worldviews, is specious because it doesn't matter if the laws by which we live were dreamed up by a conman with a beard who was good at stone masonry, or handed down by sympathetic aliens. If it works, use it, is the old adage :-) The only concession to 'warpage' I will allow, is that if people are living miserably because they cling to beliefs that make them angry, miserable, jealous and full of shame, well perhaps they should consider abandoning the belief set and replacing it with something else, just as lacking in truth content, but more palatable. -- How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. Adolf Hitler
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <DFWfJ.129562$Tr6.72672@fx47.iad> |
| In reply to | #33465 |
On 2021-10-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 29/10/2021 17:52, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a >>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is >>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they >>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their >>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! >> >> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. > > Warped with respect to what? > > A couple of decades inquiry into the matter shows that there is no way > to establish what the One True Model of Reality looks like. And those > that think they are in possession of it are no less deluded than anyone > else. > > My conclusion is that *any* model will do, provided it is not so > dysfunctional as to result in death before procreation. <snip> > The only concession to 'warpage' I will allow, is that if people are > living miserably because they cling to beliefs that make them angry, > miserable, jealous and full of shame, well perhaps they should consider > abandoning the belief set and replacing it with something else, just as > lacking in truth content, but more palatable. In some societies, this can result in death before procreation. 1/2 :-) -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 01:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <JJ-dnf0FHKVbWx38nZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #33500 |
On 11/1/21 2:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-10-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 29/10/2021 17:52, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a >>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is >>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they >>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their >>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature! >>> >>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped. >> >> Warped with respect to what? >> >> A couple of decades inquiry into the matter shows that there is no way >> to establish what the One True Model of Reality looks like. And those >> that think they are in possession of it are no less deluded than anyone >> else. >> >> My conclusion is that *any* model will do, provided it is not so >> dysfunctional as to result in death before procreation. > > <snip> > >> The only concession to 'warpage' I will allow, is that if people are >> living miserably because they cling to beliefs that make them angry, >> miserable, jealous and full of shame, well perhaps they should consider >> abandoning the belief set and replacing it with something else, just as >> lacking in truth content, but more palatable. > > In some societies, this can result in death before procreation. 1/2 :-) Why do you ascribe SO many negatives to those "under-achieving" societies ? Sorry, but to build much of anything you need a good foundation and a path towards advancement. Not everybody HAS that. It's not that they are stupid or hateful or angry or miserable or jealous or any of that crap - they just lack "The Ladder" anywhere handy. Reasons may be "cultural" or more rooted in the Leaders of the moment or economic situation. Usually the latter two. People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE of that that tends to be the problem.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 08:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slqt7a$rjq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33512 |
On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: > People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE > of that that tends to be the problem. I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. Even rats can do all that. Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when circumstances need a different approach. But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored by the masses . -- In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act. - George Orwell
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 19:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <u1ggJ.26542$Kw9.17007@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #33518 |
On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote:
>
>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE
>> of that that tends to be the problem.
>
> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis
> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning
> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple.
>
> Even rats can do all that.
>
> Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when
> circumstances need a different approach.
> But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored
> by the masses.
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.
Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there,
now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority,
frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed
by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is
kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out
of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”
-- Robert A. Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 23:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <LJKdnVX1vapWlR_8nZ2dnUU7-ROdnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #33522 |
On 11/2/21 3:09 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >> >>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>> of that that tends to be the problem. >> >> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >> >> Even rats can do all that. Aww ... Charlie .............. Oh, and Lazarus Long is FICTIONAL.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-02 21:39 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <slt3po$3d4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33527 |
On 11/2/21 20:58, 1p166 wrote: > On 11/2/21 3:09 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>> >>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>> >>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>> >>> Even rats can do all that. > > Aww ... Charlie .............. > > Oh, and Lazarus Long is FICTIONAL. It was not Charlie, 1p166 who said those foolish things but the un-Natural Philospher, a misogynist and apparently now anti-sexual. Rats don't groan. Only human women have problems with the severely enlarged head of Homo sapiens sapiens. That is why and the pains are real. Groans and screams. Is the NP an incel? Who can tell and why would they bother. I added him to my TB filters long ago. We might add misanthrope to the list of unpleasant things about him. I wonder if he is a Catholic philosopher? Lot of misanthropes fall in that basket, blaming women for whatever problems. As you say Lazarus Long is a fantasy and a wish fulfillment fantasy as well. I used to love Heinlein but as he aged he got less amusing. And he died in 1988 so I am older now then he was when he died but of course I do not have his sterling list of achievements. bliss - the ineluctable
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-03 08:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slthmf$28l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33530 |
On 03/11/2021 04:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > I wonder if he is a Catholic philosopher? > Lot of misanthropes fall in that basket, blaming women for > whatever problems. I nowhere blamed anyone for anything. I merely observed that the act of procreation prerequires no intelligence. On the part of either sex . The rest, you made up or inferred, which reveals your mind and prejudice far more than it does mine. Intelligence of a very few is useful for survival, intelligence of many is far too dangerous, which is why the modern trend is not to educate it, but indoctrinate it, as your remark above shows. -- “A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader, who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say, “We did this ourselves.” ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | 1p166 <z24ba6.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-03 11:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <5PqdnaIxtbznNB_8nZ2dnUU7-LXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #33530 |
On 11/3/21 12:39 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > On 11/2/21 20:58, 1p166 wrote: >> On 11/2/21 3:09 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>>> >>>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>>> >>>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>>> >>>> Even rats can do all that. >> >> Aww ... Charlie .............. >> >> Oh, and Lazarus Long is FICTIONAL. > It was not Charlie, 1p166 who said those foolish things but > the un-Natural Philospher, a misogynist and apparently now > anti-sexual. Sorry, must have miscounted the indents ... I've writ enough Python to run into that problem once or twice before :-) > Rats don't groan. Only human women have problems with the > severely enlarged head of Homo sapiens sapiens. That is why > and the pains are real. Groans and screams. Humans can BARELY be born - it's true. Not only is it a J-shaped exit path but it does a 90 along the way. Maybe the trend towards preemies is an evolutionary experiment of sorts ? Unless babies get smaller, or at least have initially smaller heads that grow out later then this may be the end of tangible brain-volume gains for the species. > Is the NP an incel? Who can tell and why would they bother. > I added him to my TB filters long ago. > > We might add misanthrope to the list of unpleasant > things about him. I wonder if he is a Catholic philosopher? > Lot of misanthropes fall in that basket, blaming women for > whatever problems. It is not hard to make nasty general conclusions about humans ... we too often prove the misanthropes correct. But not always. It is also an error to suggest those in poorer countries are "stupid" - they're just a slice of the same genetic cake, not fundamentally different. Local sociopolitical factors tend to be the main problem. > As you say Lazarus Long is a fantasy and a wish > fulfillment fantasy as well. I used to love Heinlein but > as he aged he got less amusing. And he died in 1988 so I > am older now then he was when he died but of course I do > not have his sterling list of achievements. > > bliss - the ineluctable I think Heinlein kinda went wonky in his old age. I once met a nephew of his who sort of suggested that was the case.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-03 08:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slthcp$d5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33527 |
On 03/11/2021 03:58, 1p166 wrote: > On 11/2/21 3:09 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>> >>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>> >>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>> >>> Even rats can do all that. > > Aww ... Charlie .............. > > Oh, and Lazarus Long is FICTIONAL. So is most of history. -- “A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader, who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say, “We did this ourselves.” ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <SvzgJ.30521$Kw9.2049@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #33527 |
On 2021-11-03, 1p166 <z24ba6.net> wrote: > On 11/2/21 3:09 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>> >>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>> >>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>> >>> Even rats can do all that. > > Aww ... Charlie .............. Watch your attributions. I didn't write any of the above. > Oh, and Lazarus Long is FICTIONAL. The character might be fictional, but his observations of life are very real. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful - X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sm6jp7$cef$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33522 |
In comp.os.linux.misc Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote:
>>
>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE
>>> of that that tends to be the problem.
>>
>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis
>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning
>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple.
>>
>> Even rats can do all that.
>>
>> Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when
>> circumstances need a different approach.
>> But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored
>> by the masses.
>
> Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man.
> Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there,
> now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority,
> frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed
> by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is
> kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out
> of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
> This is known as ?bad luck.?
> -- Robert A. Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
A great many years ago now, an Econ professor for a college Econ class
related it like so (paraphrashing from memory):
Poverty is the default, anything greater than poverty requires the
input of work.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-07 12:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sm8g17$9do$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33603 |
On 06/11/2021 19:07, Rich wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>> >>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>> >>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>> >>> Even rats can do all that. >>> >>> Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when >>> circumstances need a different approach. >>> But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored >>> by the masses. >> >> Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. >> Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, >> now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, >> frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >> by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is >> kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out >> of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. >> This is known as ?bad luck.? >> -- Robert A. Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long > > A great many years ago now, an Econ professor for a college Econ class > related it like so (paraphrashing from memory): > > Poverty is the default, anything greater than poverty requires the > input of work. > There is a strange fact, argued over by archaeologists and anthropologists, that hunter gatherers seem to have kept population numbers well below mass starvation levels. Only once people started eating cultivated starches did population levels, and famines, seem to arise. Did they strangle surplus babies? -- The New Left are the people they warned you about.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-07 13:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sm8ls2$g1j$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33605 |
In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 06/11/2021 19:07, Rich wrote: >> In comp.os.linux.misc Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>>> >>>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>>> >>>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>>> >>>> Even rats can do all that. >>>> >>>> Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when >>>> circumstances need a different approach. >>>> But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored >>>> by the masses. >>> >>> Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. >>> Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, >>> now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, >>> frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >>> by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is >>> kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out >>> of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. >>> This is known as ?bad luck.? >>> -- Robert A. Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long >> >> A great many years ago now, an Econ professor for a college Econ class >> related it like so (paraphrashing from memory): >> >> Poverty is the default, anything greater than poverty requires the >> input of work. >> > There is a strange fact, argued over by archaeologists and > anthropologists, that hunter gatherers seem to have kept population > numbers well below mass starvation levels. Only once people started > eating cultivated starches did population levels, and famines, seem to > arise. > > Did they strangle surplus babies? Not having been alive during the "hunter gatherer" era of human history, I do not have any idea how they accomplished this. Most likely it was a combination of multiple interconnected factors. And, a key word in your phrase is "seem". Implying that the archaeologists and anthropologists may not even be so sure this was indeed the case or not.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-07 07:59 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <sm8t5d$gua$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33608 |
On 11/7/21 05:55, Rich wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 06/11/2021 19:07, Rich wrote: >>> In comp.os.linux.misc Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2021-11-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 02/11/2021 05:04, 1p166 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> People are SMART everywhere. It's the ability to make good USE >>>>>> of that that tends to be the problem. >>>>> >>>>> I disagree, people are stupid everywhere, because inserting a penis >>>>> in a vagina doesn't take any great intelligence. Nor does groaning >>>>> and pushing the baby out or slapping it against a nipple. >>>>> >>>>> Even rats can do all that. >>>>> >>>>> Society needs one or two 'bright' individuals on occasion when >>>>> circumstances need a different approach. >>>>> But in general smart people are disliked and reviled and ignored >>>>> by the masses. >>>> >>>> Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. >>>> Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded - here and there, >>>> now and then - are the work of an extremely small minority, >>>> frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >>>> by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is >>>> kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out >>>> of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. >>>> This is known as ?bad luck.? >>>> -- Robert A. Heinlein: The Notebooks of Lazarus Long >>> >>> A great many years ago now, an Econ professor for a college Econ class >>> related it like so (paraphrashing from memory): >>> >>> Poverty is the default, anything greater than poverty requires the >>> input of work. >>> >> There is a strange fact, argued over by archaeologists and >> anthropologists, that hunter gatherers seem to have kept population >> numbers well below mass starvation levels. Only once people started >> eating cultivated starches did population levels, and famines, seem to >> arise. >> >> Did they strangle surplus babies? > > Not having been alive during the "hunter gatherer" era of human > history, I do not have any idea how they accomplished this. Most > likely it was a combination of multiple interconnected factors. > > And, a key word in your phrase is "seem". Implying that the > archaeologists and anthropologists may not even be so sure this was > indeed the case or not. > Primitive cultures used abortion and exposure as did the ancient Greeks to dispose of unwanted or deformed infants. The women had found an herb to prevent conception but though over use it was driven into extinction. Girls were often exposed just to hold down the population. Sometime the exposed were eaten by wild animals and sometimes they were rescued by slavers and other pimps. The American Indigenous of the California area used abortion. Of course after an epidemic ripped through a population a lot of children were no longer excess and escaped exposure. Lots of infantile and childhood deaths before the modern era i.e. before we came up with antibiotics and vaccines. Such times may return as the effect of drugs is diluted by over exposure of the microbes to those antibiotics. And then of course the idiocy of the Anti-Vaccination mob. George Washington mandated smallpox vaccination by the way at Valley Forge lest all his soldiers die. We embraced mandatory smallpox vaccination and eventually smallpox was wiped out except in laboratories were it only exists in isolated cultures for study. bliss-“Nearly any fool can use a GNU/Linux computer. Many do.” After all here I am... -- bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-11-11 20:12 +0000 |
| Subject | Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) |
| Message-ID | <smjtfm$g3mt$1@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #33609 |
In article <sm8t5d$gua$1@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote: ... > And then of course the idiocy of the Anti-Vaccination >mob. George Washington mandated smallpox vaccination by the >way at Valley Forge lest all his soldiers die. I keep hearing this story from the anti-anti-vax crowd (of which I am a member), and it is a good story, but the sad fact is that the dates don't quite line up. Look it up. The smallpox vaccine was discovered/invented by Edward Jenner in 1796. The American Revolutionary War was fought in the late 1770s. This is a problem. -- [Donald] Trump didn't have it all handed to him by his parents, like Hillary Clinton did. - Some dumb cluck in Ohio; featured in Michael Moore's "Trumpland" -
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc
csiph-web