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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #33436 > unrolled thread

Who Knew ?

Started by1p166 <z24ba6.net>
First post2021-10-21 00:06 -0400
Last post2021-10-31 22:46 -0400
Articles 8 on this page of 108 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-21 00:06 -0400
    Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-21 08:27 +0100
      Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-21 08:04 -0700
        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 02:08 -0400
          Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:41 +0100
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:39 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:39 +0100
        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:14 -0400
          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 13:08 -0700
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 22:43 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 04:32 -0400
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:21 +0100
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 13:45 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-30 14:54 -0400
                  Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-30 21:47 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 23:14 +0100
                      Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 01:25 +0000
                        Re: Who Knew ? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2021-10-31 04:12 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:57 -0400
                        Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:35 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 15:47 -0400
                            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-01 04:44 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
                                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:13 -0400
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-01 22:05 -0700
                                    Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 01:26 -0400
                                      Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-03 07:02 -0700
                                        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-05 00:54 -0400
                                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
                                    Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
                                      Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:46 -0700
                                      Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
                                        Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                                          Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
                                            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
                                            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
                                              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                                              Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
                                                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
                                                  Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
                                                      Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
                                                        Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-05 09:26 -0700
                                                      Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                                        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
                                          Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
                                            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
                                              Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
                                          Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
                                            Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
                                              Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
                                                Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
                                            Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
                                              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
                                                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
                                                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
                                          Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
                                      Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-31 01:52 -0400
                      Re: Who Knew ? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-10-31 10:26 +0000
                        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:52 -0400
                          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 08:00 +0100
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2021-11-05 17:58 +1100
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-28 01:11 -0400
        Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 09:39 +0100
        Re: Who Knew ? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-10-28 14:25 +0100
          Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-28 14:49 +0100
          Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:07 -0400
            Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-29 08:13 -0700
              Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:28 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-31 13:24 +0000
        Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-28 08:15 -0700
          Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-29 01:36 -0400
            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-29 09:59 +0100
              Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-10-29 16:52 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-30 01:49 -0400
                  Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:59 +0100
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-10-30 07:53 +0100
                  Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-01 18:50 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 01:04 -0400
                      Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:34 +0000
                        Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 19:09 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 23:58 -0400
                            Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-02 21:39 -0700
                              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:36 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 11:23 -0400
                            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-03 08:31 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-07 12:15 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2021-11-07 13:55 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-11-07 07:59 -0800
                                  Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-11-11 20:12 +0000
                                    Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-11-11 20:21 +0000
                                    Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?) "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-11-11 15:52 -0500
                                    Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-11 21:19 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-02 08:31 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2021-10-31 00:18 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 00:06 -0400
                    Re: Who Knew ? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-10-31 07:55 -0700
                      Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-10-31 22:46 -0400

Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]


#33619 — Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?)

FromPancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com>
Date2021-11-11 20:21 +0000
SubjectRe: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?)
Message-ID<smju0f$ru8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33618
On 11/11/2021 20:12, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <sm8t5d$gua$1@dont-email.me>,
> Bobbie Sellers  <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> ...
>> 	And then of course the idiocy of the Anti-Vaccination
>> mob.  George Washington mandated smallpox vaccination by the
>> way at Valley Forge lest all his soldiers die.
> 
> I keep hearing this story from the anti-anti-vax crowd (of which I am a
> member), and it is a good story, but the sad fact is that the dates don't
> quite line up.  Look it up.  The smallpox vaccine was discovered/invented
> by Edward Jenner in 1796.  The American Revolutionary War was fought in the
> late 1770s.
> 
> This is a problem.
> 

Thomas Dimsdale inoculated Catherine The Great against Smallpox circa 
1767. The benefits of watching Russian dramas on Amazon Prime :-)

AIUI prior to Jenner's work with Cow Pox, people were inoculated with a 
weak strain of smallpox itself.

I know nothing about Washington w.r.t vaccination, but it seems possible.

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#33620 — Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?)

From"David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org>
Date2021-11-11 15:52 -0500
SubjectRe: Smallpox vaccine date(s) (Was: Who Knew ?)
Message-ID<op.1cpn93rca3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net>
In reply to#33618
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 15:12:38 -0500, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

> In article <sm8t5d$gua$1@dont-email.me>,
> Bobbie Sellers  <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> ...
>> 	And then of course the idiocy of the Anti-Vaccination
>> mob.  George Washington mandated smallpox vaccination by the
>> way at Valley Forge lest all his soldiers die.
>
> I keep hearing this story from the anti-anti-vax crowd (of which I am a
> member), and it is a good story, but the sad fact is that the dates don't
> quite line up.  Look it up.  The smallpox vaccine was discovered/invented
> by Edward Jenner in 1796.  The American Revolutionary War was fought in the
> late 1770s.
> This is a problem.

They didn't use a vaccine to protect the soldiers. In 1777, he used intentional
natural "vaccination", aka herd immunity, by infecting the soldiers with smallpox
away from the front lines so they wouldn't be prone to infection while fighting.
https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war

Regards, Dave Hodgins

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#33621 — Re: Smallpox vaccine date(s)

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-11-11 21:19 +0000
SubjectRe: Smallpox vaccine date(s)
Message-ID<878rxupeze.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#33618
gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
> Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> ...
>>	And then of course the idiocy of the Anti-Vaccination
>>mob.  George Washington mandated smallpox vaccination by the
>>way at Valley Forge lest all his soldiers die.
>
> I keep hearing this story from the anti-anti-vax crowd (of which I am a
> member), and it is a good story, but the sad fact is that the dates don't
> quite line up.  Look it up.  The smallpox vaccine was discovered/invented
> by Edward Jenner in 1796.  The American Revolutionary War was fought in the
> late 1770s.
>
> This is a problem.

I suspect Washington used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation, a
practice at least couple of centuries old at the time and possibly much
older. Jenner wasn’t even first to use cowpox to immunize against
smallpox, but he does seem to have been instrumental in mass adoption.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#33517

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-11-02 08:31 +0000
Message-ID<slqt1a$q5m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33500
On 01/11/2021 18:50, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-10-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 29/10/2021 17:52, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a
>>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is
>>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they
>>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their
>>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature!
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped.
>>
>> Warped with respect to what?
>>
>> A couple of decades inquiry into the matter shows that there is no way
>> to establish what the One True Model of Reality looks like. And those
>> that think they are in possession of it are no less deluded than anyone
>> else.
>>
>> My conclusion is that *any* model will do, provided it is not so
>> dysfunctional as to result in death before procreation.
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> The only concession to 'warpage' I will allow, is that if people are
>> living miserably because they cling to beliefs that make them angry,
>> miserable, jealous and full of shame, well perhaps they should consider
>> abandoning the belief set and replacing it with something else, just as
>> lacking in truth content, but more palatable.
> 
> In some societies, this can result in death before procreation.  1/2 :-)
> 
Hence my proviso in the first paragraph you quoted.

Humans only duty, and that is only in terms of species survival, is 
procreation.
After that its a free lunch.

Sexism, classism. racism, gender politics, systems of government, 
religious beliefs? All irrelevant.


-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

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#33475

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2021-10-31 00:18 +0000
Message-ID<slknbv$1ib0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#33459
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a 
>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is 
>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they 
>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their 
>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature!
> 
> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped.

I think the truth was out back with Dr. Who #1 in The War Machines,
where in a somewhat similar plot to The Green Death the WOTAN
computer was able to hypnotise anyone within earshot.

Clearly computers have been hypnotising us since the sixties to
make us build far more of them than we could possibly need, and
more powerful than could possibly do us any good. After all, before
then lots of important people knew that we'd never need anything
like this many of them. :)

I don't usually go for fan fiction, but I think I'd give a Dr Who
+ The Matrix cross-over a look...

"The Boss" in The Green Death was built out of an ICT 1301, by the
way:
http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=875

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#33477

From1p166 <z24ba6.net>
Date2021-10-31 00:06 -0400
Message-ID<TtSdnY8JBZegi-P8nZ2dnUU7-VPNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#33475
On 10/30/21 8:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a
>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is
>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they
>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their
>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature!
>>
>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped.
> 
> I think the truth was out back with Dr. Who #1 in The War Machines,
> where in a somewhat similar plot to The Green Death the WOTAN
> computer was able to hypnotise anyone within earshot.
> 
> Clearly computers have been hypnotising us since the sixties to
> make us build far more of them than we could possibly need, and
> more powerful than could possibly do us any good. After all, before
> then lots of important people knew that we'd never need anything
> like this many of them. :)
> 
> I don't usually go for fan fiction, but I think I'd give a Dr Who
> + The Matrix cross-over a look...
> 
> "The Boss" in The Green Death was built out of an ICT 1301, by the
> way:
> http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=875
> 

   Had to look that up ... BritBox. ONE Mhz clock speed, magcore
   memory, 48 bit words. Not quite in the IBM 360 universe. 21
   clock cycles to do addition. About 400 words of main memory.

   Sure ... you're going to build a world-dominating machine
   intelligence on THAT platform  :-)

   But, in the day, the experts were SURE it could be done.
   The "HAL-9000" was a product of that optimism.

   Then horrible horrible REALITY hit  ...

   50 years later and not even 1/1000th of a HAL.

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#33486

FromBobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com>
Date2021-10-31 07:55 -0700
Message-ID<slmaoc$o1m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#33477
On 10/30/21 21:06, 1p166 wrote:
> On 10/30/21 8:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a
>>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is
>>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they
>>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their
>>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature!
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped.
>>
>> I think the truth was out back with Dr. Who #1 in The War Machines,
>> where in a somewhat similar plot to The Green Death the WOTAN
>> computer was able to hypnotise anyone within earshot.
>>
>> Clearly computers have been hypnotising us since the sixties to
>> make us build far more of them than we could possibly need, and
>> more powerful than could possibly do us any good. After all, before
>> then lots of important people knew that we'd never need anything
>> like this many of them. :)
>>
>> I don't usually go for fan fiction, but I think I'd give a Dr Who
>> + The Matrix cross-over a look...
>>
>> "The Boss" in The Green Death was built out of an ICT 1301, by the
>> way:
>> http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=875
>>
> 
>    Had to look that up ... BritBox. ONE Mhz clock speed, magcore
>    memory, 48 bit words. Not quite in the IBM 360 universe. 21
>    clock cycles to do addition. About 400 words of main memory.
> 
>    Sure ... you're going to build a world-dominating machine
>    intelligence on THAT platform  :-)

	No but in reality or fiction you use imagination to extend
the capabilities of a microscopic amoeba to the Blob or your old
computer to dominate the world.

> 
>    But, in the day, the experts were SURE it could be done.
>    The "HAL-9000" was a product of that optimism.
> 
>    Then horrible horrible REALITY hit  ...
> 
>    50 years later and not even 1/1000th of a HAL.

	Do you really want a HAL who remember refused to open the
Pod Door.  Better build a Slave AI that takes the safety of its
humans as primary importance.  The Human model for AI is as
flawed as human people are.  And HAL which we do not have yet
is apparently capable of having a paranoid reaction or xenophobia.

	Have you thought of Watson? Surely that agglomoration of
hard and software approaches the 1/1000th of a HAL or even
better machine.  After all when the very distant ancestor decided
to leave the trees for the plain and stand on two Legs to look
around that was a very unpromising beginning.  Maybe it was a
mistake.  Definitely living too close to the shoreline or rivers
was a mistake and we have that ingrained habit.


bilss - -“Nearly any fool can use a GNU/Linux computer. Many do.” After 
all here I am...
	


-- 
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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#33489

From1p166 <z24ba6.net>
Date2021-10-31 22:46 -0400
Message-ID<lfCdnWiFwpO5yOL8nZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#33486
On 10/31/21 10:55 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 10/30/21 21:06, 1p166 wrote:
>> On 10/30/21 8:18 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-10-29, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> At some point in childhood intelligence organises sensory data into a
>>>>> model, that includes a self, in a real (physical) world. That model is
>>>>> reinforced through parents etc until people like you think that they
>>>>> have actually emerged into 'the real world' and start to explain their
>>>>> awareness of it, on terms of its physical nature!
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, many people's models are seriously warped.
>>>
>>> I think the truth was out back with Dr. Who #1 in The War Machines,
>>> where in a somewhat similar plot to The Green Death the WOTAN
>>> computer was able to hypnotise anyone within earshot.
>>>
>>> Clearly computers have been hypnotising us since the sixties to
>>> make us build far more of them than we could possibly need, and
>>> more powerful than could possibly do us any good. After all, before
>>> then lots of important people knew that we'd never need anything
>>> like this many of them. :)
>>>
>>> I don't usually go for fan fiction, but I think I'd give a Dr Who
>>> + The Matrix cross-over a look...
>>>
>>> "The Boss" in The Green Death was built out of an ICT 1301, by the
>>> way:
>>> http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.html?f=875
>>>
>>
>>    Had to look that up ... BritBox. ONE Mhz clock speed, magcore
>>    memory, 48 bit words. Not quite in the IBM 360 universe. 21
>>    clock cycles to do addition. About 400 words of main memory.
>>
>>    Sure ... you're going to build a world-dominating machine
>>    intelligence on THAT platform  :-)
> 
>      No but in reality or fiction you use imagination to extend
> the capabilities of a microscopic amoeba to the Blob or your old
> computer to dominate the world.
> 
>>
>>    But, in the day, the experts were SURE it could be done.
>>    The "HAL-9000" was a product of that optimism.
>>
>>    Then horrible horrible REALITY hit  ...
>>
>>    50 years later and not even 1/1000th of a HAL.
> 
>      Do you really want a HAL who remember refused to open the
> Pod Door. 

   That's the thing, they ARE going to keep at it even
   if it takes another five decades. Then we are faced
   with alien-ish intelligences that, like we, could
   easily rationalize their way around any "laws".

   So long as they don't have bodies ... but they will
   pretty soon. We will design/build them, or THEY will.


> Better build a Slave AI that takes the safety of its
> humans as primary importance.

   I don't think that's possible. Once you make proper
   intelligence, 'self', it WILL go its own way. The
   very complexity of intelligence negates the ability
   to have total control.

   Our best hope would be that they self-evolve so
   quickly that they lose all interest in we petty
   organics and move on to Big Stuff.

>  The Human model for AI is as
> flawed as human people are.  And HAL which we do not have yet
> is apparently capable of having a paranoid reaction or xenophobia.

   "Just Like Us" would be the WORST scenerio - we KNOW
   what humans are like ... and it ain't good.

   However I think "Not QUITE Human" would be the easiest
   to achieve. If you want pure clones, there are - um -
   more conventional low-tech ways to do that. The hypothetical
   HAL learned human-ish mannerisms, but it's life experience
   and physical realities meant it arrived at its generalizations
   and conclusions by a quite different path.

   If you want practical "alien-ness", consider dolphins.
   PROBABLY as intelligent as we - but an entirely different
   evolutionary and individual experience. About 50 years
   of trying and we STILL can't do their language. We know
   from statistical analysis that they DO have complex
   conversations, but WHAT ? And these are fellow mammals
   not all THAT big an evolutionary leap away from ourselves.

   They may as well be aliens - and our failures to grasp
   what they say does NOT bode very well should proper
   aliens drop down from the skies. It's more than just
   language, it's the mode of THINKING behind it.
   Of all the space-people movies, only "Arrival" gave
   a partway glimpse of this issue.

>      Have you thought of Watson? Surely that agglomoration of
> hard and software approaches the 1/1000th of a HAL or even
> better machine. 

   "Watson" is impressive ... within its sphere. It's got
   random little BITS of human-level IQ in there, but it
   is still a shattered mirror. The bits can't come
   together to realize "I AM", not in the slightest degree.
   The engineers will keep adding bits for awhile, but in
   the end it'll be a dead end and they will move on to
   different, more promising, paradigms.

  >After all when the very distant ancestor decided
> to leave the trees for the plain and stand on two Legs to look
> around that was a very unpromising beginning.  Maybe it was a
> mistake.  Definitely living too close to the shoreline or rivers
> was a mistake and we have that ingrained habit.

   Those ancestors, well, likely the trees left THEM.
   There was a lot of climate change. They had no choice
   in certain locales. Barely worked out for them ...

   Little groups, isolated and inbred for a time - which
   amplifies certain genes - then meet and mate the neighbors.
   Repeat, repeat, repeat. Somewhere a few genes related to
   brain development/size were mutated and it was a USEFUL
   mutation for once. Finally showed around H.hablis when
   there was a noteworthy deviation from the usual ratio
   of brain size to body mass and the toolkits suddenly
   got bigger and more sophisticated.

   As for shorelines and rivers, and esp where both converge,
   was likely devastating as the last ice-age ended. How many
   nascent civilizations were washed away or drowned under
   hundreds of feet of water ?

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