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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #8050 > unrolled thread

Wish to try Linux

Started byPeter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
First post2013-05-09 20:09 +0100
Last post2013-06-25 12:52 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 147 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-09 20:09 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 15:25 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 15:24 -0500
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 21:51 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 18:41 -0400
    Re: Wish to try Linux Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2013-05-09 15:28 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:48 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 20:48 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-09 16:45 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-09 23:50 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 07:41 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:01 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 08:49 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:20 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 16:11 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-10 08:04 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux Bill Marcum <bill@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-05-16 07:58 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Bill Marcum <bill@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-05-16 07:56 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 09:32 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-16 16:03 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-05-16 09:27 -0500
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 10:53 -0400
                  Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 15:30 +0100
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 10:52 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 15:30 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 16:14 -0400
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-16 17:23 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-09 23:49 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 19:35 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 05:30 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 14:27 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-09 22:13 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:50 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 17:19 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-15 16:27 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 16:34 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 17:46 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 18:15 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 19:32 +0100
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2013-05-15 14:52 -0400
                    Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-15 21:11 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-15 13:54 -0500
                  Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 01:01 -0400
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-16 10:52 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 08:25 -0400
                        Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-16 18:56 +0000
                          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 20:33 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-16 19:35 +0000
                              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-16 20:43 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-05-19 23:33 +0000
                          Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-16 16:16 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 17:44 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-15 13:44 -0500
                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 20:37 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 13:51 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-14 21:16 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 17:49 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-15 00:02 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-09 15:03 -0500
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 14:09 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-05-23 14:38 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 16:33 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-05-23 10:55 -0500
              Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 19:00 +0100
                Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-01 11:43 +0200
                  Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-06-01 11:37 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Balwinder S Dheeman <bsd.SANSPAM@anu.homelinux.net> - 2013-06-01 21:59 +0530
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-01 19:14 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-06-01 17:43 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-01 19:33 -0400
                      Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-02 02:37 +0200
                        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-01 23:05 -0400
                          Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-06-02 09:33 +0100
                            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-02 07:02 -0400
                              Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-02 13:26 +0200
                                Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-02 15:47 +0100
                                  Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-06-02 14:52 -0400
                        Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-02 13:32 +0200
            Re: Wish to try Linux Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2013-05-23 17:09 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-23 19:06 +0100
              Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2013-05-24 04:48 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2013-05-09 20:03 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-05-09 20:19 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux bad sector <forgetski@postit_INVALID_.gov> - 2013-05-09 20:27 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-05-10 15:30 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-10 03:05 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 14:35 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-10 16:44 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-10 16:57 +0000
            Re: Wish to try Linux Stef <not@this.address.com> - 2013-05-11 03:59 +0000
              Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-11 00:27 -0400
                Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-11 12:49 +0000
                  Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-11 12:56 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-11 15:20 +0200
                      Re: Wish to try Linux notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2013-05-11 14:14 +0000
                        Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 10:30 -0400
                          Re: Wish to try Linux  OOps Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 10:38 -0400
                            Re: Wish to try Linux  OOps Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2013-05-12 04:37 +0000
                    Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-05-11 13:47 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-10 16:58 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 06:53 +0200
      Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 07:26 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 09:18 +0200
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 10:20 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-10 11:40 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 07:44 -0400
          Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:00 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Octothorpe <Octothorpe@invalid.com> - 2013-05-10 08:47 -0400
              Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:50 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 18:44 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-21 19:53 +0200
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 18:55 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-06-21 20:05 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-06-21 19:17 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 19:56 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-21 19:59 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Antti Talsta <atalsta@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 21:04 +0300
        Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-21 17:51 -0400
        Re: Wish to try Linux Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2013-06-22 01:48 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stan Bischof <stan@worldbadminton.com> - 2013-06-24 16:48 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux Stan Bischof <stan@worldbadminton.com> - 2013-06-24 16:56 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux DenverD <DenverD@invalid.dk> - 2013-05-10 09:17 +0200
    Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 13:49 +0000
      Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-10 15:48 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 18:20 +0000
            Re: Wish to try Linux Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-05-10 19:54 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-10 14:55 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-05-11 05:40 +0200
              Re: Wish to try Linux Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2013-05-11 07:55 -0400
      Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-10 16:07 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> - 2013-05-10 18:29 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-05-10 19:48 +0000
    Re: Wish to try Linux David Hough <noone$$@llondel.org> - 2013-05-10 18:13 +0100
    Re: Wish to try Linux Dirk Weber <dma-weber@globe.lu> - 2013-05-10 19:09 +0200
    Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-05-14 19:01 +0100
      Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-23 22:55 +0100
        Re: Wish to try Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-24 00:34 +0100
          Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-06-23 19:23 -0500
            Re: Wish to try Linux David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2013-06-25 18:50 +0200
        Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-06-23 22:53 +0000
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-25 12:24 +0100
            Re: Wish to try Linux Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2013-06-25 12:28 -0400
            Re: Wish to try Linux bruce.sinclair@NOSPAMORELSEagresearch.NOTco.NOTnz (Bruce Sinclair) - 2013-06-25 23:11 +0000
        Re: Wish to try Linux John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-06-23 19:30 -0500
          Re: Wish to try Linux Ross Maloney <rmatycorp@iinet.net.au> - 2013-06-24 11:07 +0800
          Re: Wish to try Linux Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2013-06-25 12:52 +0100

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#8568

FromStan Bischof <stan@worldbadminton.com>
Date2013-06-24 16:56 +0000
Message-ID<51c87a2a$0$52792$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
In reply to#8530
Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Aragorn wrote:
>> [...]  As other posters have told
>> you, you must burn the DVD /from/ the image, not put the image on the
>> disk.  Typically your burning software will have an option "burn from
>> ISO" or "burn as raw data" or something of the likes.  That's the option
>> you need.
> 
> Can you please recommend free burning software for Win 7?  I want 

CDBurnerXP

Stan

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#8070

FromDenverD <DenverD@invalid.dk>
Date2013-05-10 09:17 +0200
Message-ID<518c9ef7$0$32110$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
In reply to#8050
On 05/09/2013 09:09 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
> I know nothing about Linux or computers in general, so
> recommendations of which Linux to download will be gratefully received.

i've never used either myself but i hear that Mint is probably the 
easiest first linux to use...others say Ubuntu is the easiest

http://lifehacker.com/5993297/ubuntu-vs-mint-which-linux-distro-is-better-for-beginners

i started on Red Hat (before there was a Fedora) and tried several 
over the years and have mostly 'settled' on openSUSE..

whatever you choose, take plenty of patience and a willingness to 
both read and try-fail-try again, because Linux is NOT Windows, see 
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

-- 
DenverD
"It is far easier to read, understand and follow the instructions 
than to undo the problems caused by not." so wrote dd on 23 Jan 11

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#8082

Fromlichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid>
Date2013-05-10 13:49 +0000
Message-ID<PM0004DC5D6E360E87@defiant.fritz.box>
In reply to#8050
Peter Percival wrote:
> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
> download will be gratefully received.

It depends on your computer know-how. If don't have much of it and you want to
go easy on you try try either Ubuntu or Mint. For the first install choose a
32-bit release unless you got more than 4GB ram in your notebook. I'd would
also go for the LTS-realease (Long Time Support)

Cheers
Peter
-- 
lichtblitz PHOTOGRAPHY
Hochzeitsfotograf: http://fotograf-24.com/
Fotoblog: http://fotograf-24.com/fotoblog/
Fotostudio: http://lichtblitz.eu

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#8085

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-05-10 15:48 +0100
Message-ID<kmj1c9$rof$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8082
On 10/05/13 14:49, lichtblitz wrote:
> Peter Percival wrote:
>> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
>> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
>> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
>> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
>> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
>> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
>> download will be gratefully received.
> It depends on your computer know-how. If don't have much of it and you want to
> go easy on you try try either Ubuntu or Mint. For the first install choose a
> 32-bit release unless you got more than 4GB ram in your notebook. I'd would
> also go for the LTS-realease (Long Time Support)
64 bit runs fine in 1GB.

> Cheers
> Peter


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8093

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2013-05-10 11:21 -0500
Message-ID<FOudnep-Z93tgxDMnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#8085
At Fri, 10 May 2013 15:48:41 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> 
> On 10/05/13 14:49, lichtblitz wrote:
> > Peter Percival wrote:
> >> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
> >> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
> >> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
> >> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
> >> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
> >> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
> >> download will be gratefully received.
> > It depends on your computer know-how. If don't have much of it and you want to
> > go easy on you try try either Ubuntu or Mint. For the first install choose a
> > 32-bit release unless you got more than 4GB ram in your notebook. I'd would
> > also go for the LTS-realease (Long Time Support)
> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.

Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build boxes). It 
is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill, esp if it is just a test 
drive -- the OP only really needs to burn one 32-bit Live CD/DVD for test 
drive purposes.

> 
> > Cheers
> > Peter
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#8098

Fromlichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid>
Date2013-05-10 18:20 +0000
Message-ID<PM0004DC6137D5CF2E@defiant.fritz.box>
In reply to#8093
Robert Heller wrote:


>> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.
>
> Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build boxes).
> It is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill,

Overkill indeed, especially that the 32-bit kernel can address the the whole
< 4GB at least on en EFI-Board and btw. utilizes less RAM. Nevertheless with
exact 4GB RAM on board I always use 64-bit kernel.

Cheers
Peter
-- 
lichtblitz PHOTOGRAPHY
Hochzeitsfotograf: http://fotograf-24.com/
Fotoblog: http://fotograf-24.com/fotoblog/
Fotostudio: http://lichtblitz.eu

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#8100

FromRichard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk>
Date2013-05-10 19:54 +0100
Message-ID<87y5bmzmvp.fsf@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk>
In reply to#8098
lichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid> writes:
> Robert Heller wrote:

>>> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.
>>
>> Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build boxes).
>> It is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill,
>
> Overkill indeed, especially that the 32-bit kernel can address the the whole
> < 4GB at least on en EFI-Board and btw. utilizes less RAM. Nevertheless with
> exact 4GB RAM on board I always use 64-bit kernel.

RAM size isn’t the only issue, or necessarily much of an issue at all.
The important things that running a 64-bit kernel enables are increased
address space within a process and additional, wider registers.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#8101

FromJean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
Date2013-05-10 14:55 -0400
Message-ID<kmjfqp01pn6@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#8098
On 05/10/2013 02:20 PM, lichtblitz wrote:
> Robert Heller wrote:
>
>
>>> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.
>> Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build boxes).
>> It is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill,
> Overkill indeed, especially that the 32-bit kernel can address the the whole
> < 4GB at least on en EFI-Board and btw. utilizes less RAM. Nevertheless with
> exact 4GB RAM on board I always use 64-bit kernel.
>
> Cheers
> Peter
I used to run RHEL 5 (32-bit) on a machine with 8GBytes of RAM. The chip
set (PAE) was such that no single user process could use more than 4
GBytes of RAM, but the kernel could, since it could access the memory
mapping registers. The kernel could not use more than 4 GBytes at any
one time for executing itself, but it could use the space for buffers,
which it did.

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#8105

FromAragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid>
Date2013-05-11 05:40 +0200
Message-ID<kmkec6$s9b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8098
On Friday 10 May 2013 20:20, lichtblitz conveyed the following to 
comp.os.linux.misc...

> Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>>> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.
>>
>> Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build
>> boxes). It is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill,
> 
> Overkill indeed, especially that the 32-bit kernel can address the the
> whole < 4GB at least on en EFI-Board [...

EFI has nothing to do with that.  All 32-bit operating systems have a 4 
GiB address space.  However, when the machine has more than ~3.2 GiB of 
RAM, then chances are that the RAM above that barrier will be obscured 
by the PCI address space, depending on how many legacy PCI devices you 
have in your system.

Rationale: PCI devices are accessed by way of an address space,
           logically mapped from the top of the 32-bit 4 GiB address
           space downward.  As memory addresses cannot be assigned to
           more than one purpose, the RAM behind that address space is
           then obscured.  On hardware which supports PAE and with a
           PAE-enabled kernel, the obscured RAM can be remapped to an
           address space above the 4 GiB barrier, as PAE allows for
           36-bit memory addressing and thus up to 64 GiB of RAM, in
           pages of 3 GiB for each userspace process (plus 1 GiB for
           the kernel address space).

> ...] and btw. utilizes less RAM.

The surplus cost in RAM consumption of running a 64-bit system versus 
running a 32-bit system is highly overrated, albeit that I will agree 
that with only 1 GiB of RAM installed in the machine, any modern 64-bit 
distribution is going to feel quite asphyxiated, and the machine's going 
to be doing lots of swapping.  

I wouldn't recommend going with 64-bit on any machine with less than 2 
GiB RAM.  But then again, even though it's possible, I wouldn't 
recommend running any modern 32-bit distribution with less than 2 GiB of 
RAM anymore either, especially not with a heavyweight graphical user 
interface such as KDE 4, GNOME 3 or even present-day XFCE - which is 
also built on the GTK+ libraries, like GNOME.

With only limited RAM available, I definitely recommend a lightweight 
window manager, e.g. FluxBox/BlackBox/OpenBox, WindowMaker, or something 
similar.

> Nevertheless with exact 4GB RAM on board I always use 64-bit kernel.

With 4 GiB installed in the machine, if you have any PCIe devices in 
your system, then that is the sane thing to do, as their address space 
will be mapped above the 4 GiB barrier, leaving more accessible RAM 
available below the 4 GiB mark.

-- 
= Aragorn =
  GNU/Linux user #223157 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#8108

FromJean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
Date2013-05-11 07:55 -0400
Message-ID<kmlbjt02pim@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#8105
On 05/10/2013 11:40 PM, Aragorn wrote:
> On Friday 10 May 2013 20:20, lichtblitz conveyed the following to 
> comp.os.linux.misc...
>
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>>> 64 bit runs fine in 1GB.
>>> Sure -- I even have some 64-bit VMs with only 1gig (they are build
>>> boxes). It is just that with < 4gig of RAM, 64-bit is overkill,
>> Overkill indeed, especially that the 32-bit kernel can address the the
>> whole < 4GB at least on en EFI-Board [...
> EFI has nothing to do with that.  All 32-bit operating systems have a 4 
> GiB address space.  However, when the machine has more than ~3.2 GiB of 
> RAM, then chances are that the RAM above that barrier will be obscured 
> by the PCI address space, depending on how many legacy PCI devices you 
> have in your system.
>
> Rationale: PCI devices are accessed by way of an address space,
>            logically mapped from the top of the 32-bit 4 GiB address
>            space downward.  As memory addresses cannot be assigned to
>            more than one purpose, the RAM behind that address space is
>            then obscured.  On hardware which supports PAE and with a
>            PAE-enabled kernel, the obscured RAM can be remapped to an
>            address space above the 4 GiB barrier, as PAE allows for
>            36-bit memory addressing and thus up to 64 GiB of RAM, in
>            pages of 3 GiB for each userspace process (plus 1 GiB for
>            the kernel address space).
>
>> ...] and btw. utilizes less RAM.
> The surplus cost in RAM consumption of running a 64-bit system versus 
> running a 32-bit system is highly overrated, albeit that I will agree 
> that with only 1 GiB of RAM installed in the machine, any modern 64-bit 
> distribution is going to feel quite asphyxiated, and the machine's going 
> to be doing lots of swapping.  
>
> I wouldn't recommend going with 64-bit on any machine with less than 2 
> GiB RAM.  But then again, even though it's possible, I wouldn't 
> recommend running any modern 32-bit distribution with less than 2 GiB of 
> RAM anymore either, especially not with a heavyweight graphical user 
> interface such as KDE 4, GNOME 3 or even present-day XFCE - which is 
> also built on the GTK+ libraries, like GNOME.
>
> With only limited RAM available, I definitely recommend a lightweight 
> window manager, e.g. FluxBox/BlackBox/OpenBox, WindowMaker, or something 
> similar.
>
>> Nevertheless with exact 4GB RAM on board I always use 64-bit kernel.
> With 4 GiB installed in the machine, if you have any PCIe devices in 
> your system, then that is the sane thing to do, as their address space 
> will be mapped above the 4 GiB barrier, leaving more accessible RAM 
> available below the 4 GiB mark.
>
I have a machine that has two 550 MHz Pentium III processors, 512 Meg of
RAM, 3 hard drives, a few PCI devices (sound board, ethernet board, two
SCSI controllers, ...) and it runs fine with CentOS 5 (32 bit) on it
usually running GNOME. Those processors are a little slow by todays
standards. I keep it only because it works just fine. I mainly run BOINC
processes on it, and it does not swap. On the other hand, sometimes one
of the BOINC processes is swapped out (no thrashing) waiting for memory.
But that kind of swapping happens only about every 90 minutes. I did not
dare try CentOS 6 on it though. As I use it now, it does not really need
a sound board, or one of the SCSI controllers (CD-ROM
reader-burner).When I bought it, it came with Red Hat Linux 5.0 and was
soon upgraded to Red Hat Linux 5.2. The last Red Hat Linux I ran it with
was Red Hat Linux 7.3 that was a very good distribution. It never
thrashed. It was my main computer for at least 4 years.

But I would not BUY a machine like that today, and if I did, I suppose I
would have more memory in it. Also, I doubt I could get processors as
slow as those anymore. But it works just fine as a backup computer. I
used to dual boot it with Windows XP in it that I needed only to do my
income tax. I bought the machine new in early 2000.

My "new" machine has 8 GBytes RAM and runs x86_64 Red Hat Enterprise
Linux 6 on it. It has a slow 4-core Xeon in it. It could have two Xeon
processors and something like 384 GBytes of RAM, but I do not need that
kind of computer anymore. But the motherboard is ready if I ever did.

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#8091

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-05-10 16:07 +0000
Message-ID<kmj5v7$4cm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8082
On Friday, May 10th, 2013, at 13:49:09h +0000, Licht Blitz suggested:

> If don't have much of it and you want to go easy on you try try
> either Ubuntu ...

Why do you disregard the sage advice of Richard Matthew Stallman,
the founder of the GNU software project and a pioneer of the free
software movement?

  From <http://www.fsf.ORG/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do>

QUOTE

  December 7th, 2012  at 01:55h

  Ubuntu, a widely used and influential GNU/Linux distribution,
  has installed surveillance code. 

  ...

  If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux,
  please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend
  or redistribute.

UNQUOTE

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#8099

Fromlichtblitz <nospam@lichtblitz.invalid>
Date2013-05-10 18:29 +0000
Message-ID<PM0004DC6157BA828C@defiant.fritz.box>
In reply to#8091
J G Miller wrote:
> On Friday, May 10th, 2013, at 13:49:09h +0000, Licht Blitz suggested:
>
>> If don't have much of it and you want to go easy on you try try
>> either Ubuntu ...

>   If you ever recommend or redistribute GNU/Linux,
>   please remove Ubuntu from the distros you recommend
>   or redistribute.

Why so? It is still GNU/Linux not Windows:
sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping

Cheers
Peter

-- 
lichtblitz PHOTOGRAPHY
Hochzeitsfotograf: http://fotograf-24.com/
Fotoblog: http://fotograf-24.com/fotoblog/
Fotostudio: http://lichtblitz.eu

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#8103

FromJ G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG>
Date2013-05-10 19:48 +0000
Message-ID<kmjiv5$oda$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8099
On Friday, May 10th, 2013 at 18:29:12h +0000, Licht Blitz asked:

> Why so? 

Read the full article for which I provided the link
and you will learn the reason why RMS says so.

> sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping

You also forgot to mention removing the zeitgeist spyware.

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#8096

FromDavid Hough <noone$$@llondel.org>
Date2013-05-10 18:13 +0100
Message-ID<efmv5a-qcq.ln1@llondel.org>
In reply to#8050
Peter Percival wrote:

> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
> download will be gratefully received.

If you've got a decent-size USB stick then you might not even need a CD for 
trying things out.

Go look for Unetbootin on SourceForge (Google will help you find it), 
download the Mint 13 XFCE 32-bit ISO[*]. Use Unetbootin to write it to the 
USB stick and then reboot off that. Once you've worked out how to do it, you 
can easily try other Linux variants if you so wish, without amassing a 
collection of CDs and DVDs. You can experiment with KDE and Gnome editions, 
but they normally exercise the graphics a bit harder and aren't as good as 
XFCE or LXDE. I prefer LXDE to XFCE, but it's not available as a Live CD 
image (although is relatively trivial to add once you're up and running).

[*] Even my father coped with this and he hasn't broken it yet.

Dave

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#8097

FromDirk Weber <dma-weber@globe.lu>
Date2013-05-10 19:09 +0200
Message-ID<c7mv5a-do7.ln1@dirkweber.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#8050
Op 09-05-13 21:09, Peter Percival schreef:
> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
> and I have a broadband internet connection.

Congratulations. Seems to be a nice machine (no, I am definitevely no
hardware expert). And a broadband internet connection makes life so much
easier (we only have something like that for a bot more than a year
now). Both together are a good start to begin with Linux.


>  May I download
> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
> an elderly Windows XP computer? 

As far as I know there are no countries where this might be forbidden
(North Korea, Iran?). Linux is open source (see Wikipedia for this or
other expressions, there you will find a lot of informations).

> Even if I can't use the same CD on both
> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  

Well, I am here the "sysadmin" of four Linux pcs. Two are 64bit pcs, one
is a 32bit pc which serves as fileserver and then we have this elder
32bit FSC Lifebook which I now have in the sleeping room to be used as
internet radio.

The 64bit pcs rund with Debian Wheezy 64bit (will soon be updated to
Debian testing 64bit), the fileserver runs with Debian Wheezy 32bit and
the laptop runs with AntiX which is a Debian testing derivate.


> I know nothing about
> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
> download will be gratefully received.

It is ok if you have no idea yet of Linux. Most of us had no ideas of MS
Windows when we started with that (or of MS DOS such as me). You have
one big advantage: You do speak English, this is the lingua franca in
the computer world.

And you are not only interested - you also must be very brave. Otherwise
you would not have posted this question about the recommende
distribution here.

:-)

This question is of nearly religious meaning. If you have a look at
www.distrowatch.org you will see that they list a bit more than 300
different distributions. No easy choice indeed.

There are differences of course (try the search filters on distrowatch).
There are distris for general usage and there are distris for more or
less specialized usage. There are distris with many localisations and
there are distris which only come in one language. There are distris
which are strictly non-commercial and there are distris which are very
commercial.

So what can you do with that?

First of all: Do you know somebody who might be willing to help you
(face to face that is) and who is more or less content with his
distribution? If so, ask him for support in installing and maybe the
first steps.

You will have to do all by yourself - later. For the beginning is is
very nice to have a helping friend. Might be a fine bbq or a cradle of
good (German?) beer might be a good reward.

:-)

No friend of that kind? Still want to go on trying Linux?

In that case I would suggest you decide for one of the bigger
distributions. Chances then are the best that they are user friendly
(absolutely most distris are this nowadays) and you will find answers to
even the oddest questions which you cannot solve yourself (for example
by posting them here).

A very good idea may be to download a live version of several distris
(find them with help of distrowatch). They all are Linux, that is for
true, but they all are more or less different from each other. Different
software included, different graphical user interfaces per default or
even to choose. Some are somehow "fat", some are "slim". Some work
faster, some slower. But take in regard that a live distri may work much
slower that a distri installed on your hard disc.

You will find quite a lot of answers in this thread and many of them
will praise the author's favourite distri. This should be no surprise,
with Linux you have the freedom to use that distri you like the most.
And this judgement of course also has a subjective component (wich imho
is absolutely ok) which does not make the choice easier for you.

But read all the arguments and try to get an impression. If you find a
discussion weird or too academic, just leave it out. (Maybe some people
will now call for my blood).

:-)

Then just start. Find out which meanings apply to your experiences and
which not, and get an own feeling for one or another distri. If you take
care of a reliable data backup before (!!) installing a Linux distri
(which includes formatting the hard discs during the procedure) you will
not need too much time for this. But you will learn a lot about your
computer (very interesting, believe me) and also about yourself (did you
know that there are cases recorded of people who shot their computer?).

And: Please don't smoke when installing, it is unhealthy. Better have a
good beer or wine afterwards, good coffee or tea also will do the job.
Don't ennerve your partner with this business except he/she is also
interested in this matter.

Thus: Have fun.

Ok, you asked for that: I started with MS DOS, then MS Windows 98, later
I worked in the office with a stone age era Apple Macintosh, still later
Windows XP. All of these not too bad at their time.

My first steps with Linux were with SuSE Linux (well, I live in Germany
and SuSE was very popular under Linux users here). Used that for several
years. Then tried Fedora and Ubuntu. Finally I came to Debian which I
now am using for some five years or so. I did it with KDE, GNOME, XFCE,
BLACKBOX, ICEWM and now with MATE as gui.

Personally I am sure that Debian nowadays is very user friendly
(especially the installer is much better than some years ago when it was
a nuisance). There are several versions of which "stable" indeed is rock
stable and "testing" is also very stable (personally I never had any
problems with testing during the last four years). Stable is imho
recommandable for servers where the software is not necessarily to be on
the development's edge (security updates are provided very fast for
stable, thus this is no problem with Debian stable). Testing I would
recommend for workstations (also for productional use) where the
software should be state of the art (for example: Actual version of
Libre Office). Debian is available as live distribution. But be aware of
what I said before: All this is my personal meaning, I am no os guru.

Groetjes uit Arft,

Dirk

-- 
D. Weber, Arft, Germany (50°22'56"N 07°05'01"E)
If possible, no html mails please
jabber me

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#8136

FromPeter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
Date2013-05-14 19:01 +0100
Message-ID<kmtu6f$pp3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8050
Peter Percival wrote:
> I am the proud owner of an Acer Aspire A5-4 notebook running Windows 7,
> and I have a broadband internet connection.  May I download
> some-Linux-or-other, burn it on to a CD to use on my note book, _and_ on
> an elderly Windows XP computer?  Even if I can't use the same CD on both
> machines, I would like to try it on the notebook.  I know nothing about
> Linux or computers in general, so recommendations of which Linux to
> download will be gratefully received.

Thank you for all replies (which will take some time to digest), 
meanwhile I'm downloading Tails 0.17.2.

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#8554

FromPeter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
Date2013-06-23 22:55 +0100
Message-ID<kq7qsk$co3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8136
Peter Percival wrote:
>
> meanwhile I'm downloading Tails 0.17.2.

And it seems the only programming language on it is Python.  I was 
expecting to find assembler and C at least.  I suppose these can be 
downloaded from somewhere.  (Fortran would be nice as well.)

-- 
I think I am an Elephant,
Behind another Elephant
Behind /another/ Elephant who isn't really there....
				A.A. Milne

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#8557

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2013-06-24 00:34 +0100
Message-ID<kq80lv$ndn$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#8554
On 23/06/13 22:55, Peter Percival wrote:
> Peter Percival wrote:
>>
>> meanwhile I'm downloading Tails 0.17.2.
>
> And it seems the only programming language on it is Python.  I was 
> expecting to find assembler and C at least.  I suppose these can be 
> downloaded from somewhere.  (Fortran would be nice as well.)
>
think gcc will assemble assembler

no idea about fortran.

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

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#8559

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2013-06-23 19:23 -0500
Message-ID<8738s84aru.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#8557
The Natural Philosopher writes:
> think gcc will assemble assembler

> no idea about fortran.

Yes, of course gcc will compile FORTRAN as well assembler for about a
zillion architectures.

-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#8587

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>
Date2013-06-25 18:50 +0200
Message-ID<r5GdnROjVZPJV1TMnZ2dnUVZ7qqdnZ2d@lyse.net>
In reply to#8559
On 24/06/13 02:23, John Hasler wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher writes:
>> think gcc will assemble assembler
>
>> no idea about fortran.
>
> Yes, of course gcc will compile FORTRAN as well assembler for about a
> zillion architectures.
>

Actually, gcc will not handle assembly - but it will pre-process it if 
you like.  It will pass on the assembly to gas, the binutils assembler 
that is almost invariably used along with gcc.  And while gcc only 
supports about a zillion architectures, binutils supports even more.

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