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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 247 — 22 participants |
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Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
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Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:25 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:45 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:26 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:51 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:58 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:43 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:15 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:13 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:14 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 08:01 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:55 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:09 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:12 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 02:42 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 08:53 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:06 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:32 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:20 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:22 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:36 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:35 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:18 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:32 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:55 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 12:12 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 13:43 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:37 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:07 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 13:30 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:08 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:04 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-16 23:19 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:29 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:54 -0400
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:58 +0000
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:25 +0100
Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "De ongekruisigde ds." <ongekruisigde-ds@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Page 11 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 Next page →
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 07:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11av7ki$3vvao$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93932 |
>Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid>wrote: >>On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 17:10:18 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> Well C++ is a crime against humanity >> 'operator overloading...' crap bloated crap. > >Operator overloading is a very handy feature. Yes, C++ is overly >complicated. Java left out that feature of C++, and it, too, still >manages to be excessively complicated. > >Python, on the other hand, includes operator overloading, yet is still >only a small fraction of the complexity of either Java or C++. Such a >feature is useful, for example, in letting you express operations on >mathematical objects (like vectors and matrices) using something close >to the original mathematical notation. OK I never got much into Python Never needed it for the things I do. Also it seems to be changing all the time? Most code I write is in C or in asm for Microchips. asm is extremely powerful understand the hardware!!! https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/index.html These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'. Too many layers of crap. But I come from a hardware background, in the sixties there were no 'computers' yet they did a manned Moon landing and return. Now they have nothing to show but driving around the block (earth orbit) with all that computing power.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 07:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11av8v9$9j8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93973 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > I never got much into Python > Never needed it for the things I do. > Also it seems to be changing all the time? New features appear every year. > But I come from a hardware background, in the sixties there were no > 'computers' yet they did a manned Moon landing and return. Of course they had “computers” -- several giant IBM mainframes at Mission Control. Also every engineer had their trusty slide rule handy. There were 4 computers on the Apollo spacecraft -- one to control the Saturn rocket, one in the Command Module, and 2 (1 for backup) on the Lunar Module.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 12:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11avp0q$65kh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #93974 |
>Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid>wrote: >>On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> I never got much into Python >> Never needed it for the things I do. >> Also it seems to be changing all the time? > >New features appear every year. > >> But I come from a hardware background, in the sixties there were no >> 'computers' yet they did a manned Moon landing and return. > >Of course they had “computers” -- several giant IBM mainframes at >Mission Control. Also every engineer had their trusty slide rule >handy. > >There were 4 computers on the Apollo spacecraft -- one to control the >Saturn rocket, one in the Command Module, and 2 (1 for backup) on the >Lunar Module. You are right, real computers, I just read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer Not much memory compared to today's ... I still have a slide rule somewhere... And old calculators.. I remember playing moonlanding game on a Commodore PET in the seventies? :-)
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nji3gfFei39U16@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #94017 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 12:17:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > Not much memory compared to today's ... > I still have a slide rule somewhere... And old calculators.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_30 I believe RPI's had 32k of core. For FFTs etc you wrote partial products to tape, rewind, and take another pass. Rinse and repeat. rewind() is still in the C standard library but it was very literal back then.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 08:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b1v91$v6cl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94075 |
>rbowman <bowman@montana.com>wrote: >>On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 12:17:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > >> Not much memory compared to today's ... >> I still have a slide rule somewhere... And old calculators.. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_30 > >I believe RPI's had 32k of core. For FFTs etc you wrote partial products >to tape, rewind, and take another pass. Rinse and repeat. rewind() is >still in the C standard library but it was very literal back then. In those days I was working in broadcasting, no computers there, tubes, lots and lots of logic and transistors, https://archive.org/details/ampex-vr-1100-videotape-television-recorder then we got the VR2000 and later the AVR1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruplex_videotape When the Moon landings happened I was in the head control room here relaying it to the people. Lots of tubes those days in that studio, had to keep it running. At home I had my own video recorder: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philips_ldl100001ldl_10000.html Later modified it for color... Video has become a sort of second nature to me.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b0l6p$iems$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94017 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 12:17:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer > > Not much memory compared to today's ... Well, they weren’t running a complex GUI ;). You entered “Noun” and “Verb” numbers to select which program to run. E.g. the program for the lunar landing was “P64”. During the Apollo 11 landing, it crashed, twice. > I still have a slide rule somewhere... I remember reading that the world’s largest slide-rule maker at the time, Keufel & Esser, went bust in 1971. Electronic digital calculators had arrived ... not long after the last Moon landing.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 04:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <D1qdnXTkH9BbGkn3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94076 |
On 10/17/26 16:18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 12:17:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer >> >> Not much memory compared to today's ... > > Well, they weren’t running a complex GUI ;). You entered “Noun” and > “Verb” numbers to select which program to run. E.g. the program for > the lunar landing was “P64”. During the Apollo 11 landing, it crashed, > twice. It was a totally CRAP computer ... "rope memory" ... probably less power than a PIC16f84. AMAZING they got down safe - credit Cool Neil. >> I still have a slide rule somewhere... I have a few as well. NOT bad tools, even now, and don't need batteries. Civ implodes, slide-rules will be THE most coveted devices. > I remember reading that the world’s largest slide-rule maker at the > time, Keufel & Esser, went bust in 1971. Electronic digital > calculators had arrived ... not long after the last Moon landing. I bought some of the earliest 'calculators'. NOT cheap back in the day. Still have ONE that works. 9V battery and it Goes. Early 70s. Pre-LED. BEFORE, Dad had a "Marchant" MECHANICAL calculator. Enter numbers on a big matrix keyboard. Press a function key. Calc might be quick, or take an hour. Ka-CHUNK Ka-CHUNK Ka-CHUNK .... mech-digital display. Super cool ! INSANE gearworks !
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 17:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18df6128f9a41e3b$1918$1722273$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com> |
| In reply to | #93973 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > Most code I write is in C or in asm for Microchips. > asm is extremely powerful > understand the hardware!!! > It is good to hear someone actually standing up for C and assembly. These Linux groups seem to be packed only with Python/C++ jockeys. The poor dupes don't know what they're missing. Assembly is the most fun of any programming language. There is none of the uncertainty that slows one down when using a higher level language. The instructions just flow effortlessly. However, I do still have trouble with the shuffle operations on the SIMD registers. I need to always check the manuals to see what goes where. Intel and GCC provide support for so-called "intrinsics" that allow assembly code to be directly incorporated into C code, but these, for me, are tedious and not much fun to use. You are also correct in stating that a thorough knowledge of hardware is a requisite for assembly programming. After all, one is dealing directly with digital registers with no cozy compiler or interpreter in between. > > These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'. > Too many layers of crap. > GNU has published the definitive version of Hello World: <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/>
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 19:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <11b0cbt$f5om$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94040 |
On 17/10/2026 19:26, Leroy H wrote: > On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >> Most code I write is in C or in asm for Microchips. >> asm is extremely powerful >> understand the hardware!!! >> > > It is good to hear someone actually standing up for > C and assembly. > > These Linux groups seem to be packed only with Python/C++ > jockeys. The poor dupes don't know what they're missing. I have programmed several processor families in the past. I am sure I am not alone. I have done some work in C, including a graph-to-GIF converter :-). >> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'. >> Too many layers of crap. But it often supports Unicode ;-) -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b1s8d$u79o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94042 |
>John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>wrote: >>On 17/10/2026 19:26, Leroy H wrote: >> On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> >>> Most code I write is in C or in asm for Microchips. >>> asm is extremely powerful >>> understand the hardware!!! >>> >> >> It is good to hear someone actually standing up for >> C and assembly. >> >> These Linux groups seem to be packed only with Python/C++ >> jockeys. The poor dupes don't know what they're missing. > >I have programmed several processor families in the past. I am sure I am >not alone. I have done some work in C, including a graph-to-GIF >converter :-). > >>> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'. >>> Too many layers of crap. > >But it often supports Unicode ;-) Some of C code I released into public domain: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html Am posting this with NewsFleX from a Raspberry Pi4 8 GB The Raspberry version is not on my website yet, still testing (now for some years). Seems to work OK though. Some Microchip asm code and projects: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/index.html I started with Linux with SLS Linux around 1992 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softlanding_Linux_System There was no 'Free Agent' newsreader back then for Linux so I wrote my own.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 18:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <FnPAS.44365$fY7.11865@fx20.iad> |
| In reply to | #94040 |
On 2026-10-17, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'.
>> Too many layers of crap.
>
> GNU has published the definitive version of Hello World:
>
> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/>
Holy cow. I guess it's time to resurrect this old chestnut:
Mon Nov 12 20:03:48 1990
Message : #1011969 From: cs161fhn%sdcc10@ucsd.edu
Group : NET.Funny
Length : 198 words
Subject : Evolution of a programmer
Msg-ID: <S1c5.4b61@looking.on.ca>
Posted: 13 Nov 90 00:30:05 GMT
Person: Dennis Lou
The Evolution of a programmer.
(Okay, it's late and I'm not thinking straight, but at least it's
original...)
High school/Jr. High
--------------------
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
20 END
First year in college
---------------------
program Hello(input, output);
begin
writeln ('Hello world');
end
Senior year in college
----------------------
(defun hello
(print
(cons 'HELLO (list 'WORLD))))
New professional
----------------
#include <stdio.h>
main (argc,argv)
int argc;
char **argv; {
printf ("Hello World!\n");
}
Seasoned pro
------------
#include <stream.h>
const int MAXLEN = 80;
class outstring;
class outstring {
private:
int size;
char str[MAXLEN];
public:
outstring() { size=0; }
~outstring() {size=0;}
void print();
void assign(char *chrs);
};
void outstring::print() {
int i;
for (i=0 ; i< size ; i++)
cout << str[i];
cout << "\n";
}
void outstring::assign(char *chrs) {
int i;
for (i=0; chrs[i] != '\0';i++)
str[i] = chrs[i];
size=i;
}
main (int argc, char **argv) {
outstring string;
string.assign("Hello World!");
string.print();
}
Manager
------
/* George, I need a program to print a string
"Hello World!" */
--
Edited by Brad Templeton. MAIL your jokes (jokes ONLY) to funny@looking.ON.CA
Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply.
If you don't need a reply, submit to rhf@looking.on.ca instead.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b0llp$iems$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94058 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:45:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/> > > Holy cow. On a similar note, the original Unix “true” command was ... an empty shell script. Nevertheless, AT&T tried to claim copyright on it <http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html>. Worth comparing the GNU coreutils version of “true” <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/10/line_break_ep2/>, which is ... 80 lines long. The same code is also used to generate the “false” command. The full source is posted in that article, to make fun of supposed “software bloat” or something. The writer completely fails to realize a point made in the previous link: that the GNU version uses less memory and runs faster.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <JYSAS.85680$TYg.16312@fx21.iad> |
| In reply to | #94079 |
On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:45:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >>> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/> >> >> Holy cow. > > On a similar note, the original Unix “true” command was ... an empty > shell script. Nevertheless, AT&T tried to claim copyright on it > <http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html>. > > Worth comparing the GNU coreutils version of “true” ><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/10/line_break_ep2/>, which is > ... 80 lines long. The same code is also used to generate the “false” > command. The full source is posted in that article, to make fun of > supposed “software bloat” or something. The writer completely fails to > realize a point made in the previous link: that the GNU version uses > less memory and runs faster. https://en.wikipedia.ort/wiki/IEFBR14 It describes a do-nothing program that needed maintenance anyway. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <j_SAS.85681$TYg.26982@fx21.iad> |
| In reply to | #94092 |
On 2026-10-17, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-10-17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:45:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>>> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/> >>> >>> Holy cow. >> >> On a similar note, the original Unix “true” command was ... an empty >> shell script. Nevertheless, AT&T tried to claim copyright on it >> <http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html>. >> >> Worth comparing the GNU coreutils version of “true” >><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/10/line_break_ep2/>, which is >> ... 80 lines long. The same code is also used to generate the “false” >> command. The full source is posted in that article, to make fun of >> supposed “software bloat” or something. The writer completely fails to >> realize a point made in the previous link: that the GNU version uses >> less memory and runs faster. > > https://en.wikipedia.ort/wiki/IEFBR14 > > It describes a do-nothing program that needed maintenance anyway. Oops! s/ort/org/ -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 04:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MpGcnScZ_--wF0n3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #94079 |
On 10/17/26 16:26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:45:57 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >>> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/> >> >> Holy cow. > > On a similar note, the original Unix “true” command was ... an empty > shell script. Nevertheless, AT&T tried to claim copyright on it > <http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html>. An attempted patent on NOTHING ... :-) > Worth comparing the GNU coreutils version of “true” > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/10/line_break_ep2/>, which is > ... 80 lines long. The same code is also used to generate the “false” > command. The full source is posted in that article, to make fun of > supposed “software bloat” or something. The writer completely fails to > realize a point made in the previous link: that the GNU version uses > less memory and runs faster. Um ... why'd it take 80 lines ?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b1tbo$uhv3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94058 |
>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>wrote:
>>On 2026-10-17, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'.
>>> Too many layers of crap.
>>
>> GNU has published the definitive version of Hello World:
>>
>> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/>
>
>Holy cow. I guess it's time to resurrect this old chestnut:
>
>
>Mon Nov 12 20:03:48 1990
>Message : #1011969 From: cs161fhn%sdcc10@ucsd.edu
>Group : NET.Funny
>Length : 198 words
>Subject : Evolution of a programmer
>
>Msg-ID: <S1c5.4b61@looking.on.ca>
>Posted: 13 Nov 90 00:30:05 GMT
>
>Person: Dennis Lou
>
>
>The Evolution of a programmer.
>
>(Okay, it's late and I'm not thinking straight, but at least it's
>original...)
>
>High school/Jr. High
>--------------------
>10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
>20 END
>
>
>First year in college
>---------------------
>program Hello(input, output);
> begin
> writeln ('Hello world');
> end
>
>Senior year in college
>----------------------
>(defun hello
> (print
> (cons 'HELLO (list 'WORLD))))
>
>New professional
>----------------
>#include <stdio.h>
>main (argc,argv)
>int argc;
>char **argv; {
>printf ("Hello World!\n");
I will go with that one,
but simplify it a bit
file q1.c
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
printf("Hello\n");
}
raspberrypi: ~ # gcc -o q1 q1.c
raspberrypi: ~ # l q1
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8068 Oct 18 09:33 q1*
raspberrypi: ~ # ./q1
Hello
So an about 8 kilobytes size executable ....
Better use bash
echo "Hello"
raspberrypi: ~ # echo "Hello"
Hello
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 12:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11b29p4$11pis$14@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94108 |
On 18/10/2026 08:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>wrote:
>>> On 2026-10-17, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'.
>>>> Too many layers of crap.
>>>
>>> GNU has published the definitive version of Hello World:
>>>
>>> <https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/>
>>
>> Holy cow. I guess it's time to resurrect this old chestnut:
>>
>>
>> Mon Nov 12 20:03:48 1990
>> Message : #1011969 From: cs161fhn%sdcc10@ucsd.edu
>> Group : NET.Funny
>> Length : 198 words
>> Subject : Evolution of a programmer
>>
>> Msg-ID: <S1c5.4b61@looking.on.ca>
>> Posted: 13 Nov 90 00:30:05 GMT
>>
>> Person: Dennis Lou
>>
>>
>> The Evolution of a programmer.
>>
>> (Okay, it's late and I'm not thinking straight, but at least it's
>> original...)
>>
>> High school/Jr. High
>> --------------------
>> 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
>> 20 END
>>
>>
>> First year in college
>> ---------------------
>> program Hello(input, output);
>> begin
>> writeln ('Hello world');
>> end
>>
>> Senior year in college
>> ----------------------
>> (defun hello
>> (print
>> (cons 'HELLO (list 'WORLD))))
>>
>> New professional
>> ----------------
>> #include <stdio.h>
>> main (argc,argv)
>> int argc;
>> char **argv; {
>> printf ("Hello World!\n");
>
>
> I will go with that one,
> but simplify it a bit
>
> file q1.c
> #include <stdio.h>
> int main()
> {
> printf("Hello\n");
> }
>
> raspberrypi: ~ # gcc -o q1 q1.c
> raspberrypi: ~ # l q1
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8068 Oct 18 09:33 q1*
> raspberrypi: ~ # ./q1
> Hello
>
> So an about 8 kilobytes size executable ....
>
> Better use bash
> echo "Hello"
> raspberrypi: ~ # echo "Hello"
> Hello
>
$ ls -l /bin/bash
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1183448 Apr 18 2022 /bin/bash
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's"
Joew Walsh
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| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b1rit$u11e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94040 |
>Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net>wrote:
>>On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>>
>> Most code I write is in C or in asm for Microchips.
>> asm is extremely powerful
>> understand the hardware!!!
>>
>
>It is good to hear someone actually standing up for
>C and assembly.
>
>These Linux groups seem to be packed only with Python/C++
>jockeys. The poor dupes don't know what they're missing.
>
>Assembly is the most fun of any programming language.
>There is none of the uncertainty that slows one down
>when using a higher level language. The instructions
>just flow effortlessly.
>
>However, I do still have trouble with the shuffle operations
>on the SIMD registers. I need to always check the manuals
>to see what goes where.
>
>Intel and GCC provide support for so-called "intrinsics" that
>allow assembly code to be directly incorporated into C code,
>but these, for me, are tedious and not much fun to use.
>
>You are also correct in stating that a thorough knowledge
>of hardware is a requisite for assembly programming. After
>all, one is dealing directly with digital registers with no
>cozy compiler or interpreter in between.
>
>
>>
>> These days giggle bytes seem to be needed to just say: 'Hello world'.
>> Too many layers of crap.
>>
>
>GNU has published the definitive version of Hello World:
>
><https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/>
OK, just for fun, I downloaded
hello-2.12.tar.gz 2022-01-31 13:58 1.0M
Imakefile etc etc
xmkmf
make
mkdir hello
mv hello-2.12.tar.gz hello/
cd hello
tar -zxvf hello-2.12.tar.gz
l
cd */
l
./configure
l
make
l
./hello
cd src
l
joe hello.c
l
cd ..
l
./hello
'l' in zsh that I use as shell stands for 'ls -rtl'
saves typing and always show recent
raspberrypi: ~/hello/hello-2.12 # l
total 1940
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15756 Aug 12 2017 INSTALL
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 93787 Aug 12 2017 ABOUT-NLS
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 208 Feb 8 2018 TODO
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 35149 Feb 8 2018 COPYING
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 891 Mar 7 2020 THANKS
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1509 Mar 7 2020 README-dev
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3499 Mar 7 2020 README
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30559 Mar 7 2020 ChangeLog.O
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 580 Mar 7 2020 AUTHORS
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2342 Mar 7 2021 configure.ac
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4577 Mar 7 2021 GNUmakefile
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66373 Mar 7 2021 maint.mk
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3646 Jan 31 2022 Makefile.am
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 45039 Jan 31 2022 aclocal.m4
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 39766 Jan 31 2022 config.in
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 204406 Jan 31 2022 Makefile.in
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4607 Jan 31 2022 NEWS
-rwxr-xr-- 1 root root 663695 Jan 31 2022 configure*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1550 Jan 31 2022 hello.1
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 tests/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 man/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 m4/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 contrib/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 doc/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 21682 Jan 31 2022 ChangeLog
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 31 2022 build-aux/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 68284 Oct 18 09:02 config.status*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 183752 Oct 18 09:02 Makefile
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 40885 Oct 18 09:02 config.h
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23 Oct 18 09:02 stamp-h1
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Oct 18 09:02 po/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 179003 Oct 18 09:02 config.log
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Oct 18 09:02 src/
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 12288 Oct 18 09:03 lib/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 177276 Oct 18 09:03 hello*
raspberrypi: ~/hello/hello-2.12 # ./hello
Hello, world!
Oh well...
LOL
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 20:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nji397Fei39U15@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #93973 |
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > OK I never got much into Python Never needed it for the things I do. > Also it seems to be changing all the time? Except for the transition from 2 to 3 Python has been quite good at maintaining backward compatibility. It changes as PEPs are implemented but seldom do the changes break things. > But I come from a hardware background, in the sixties there were no > 'computers' I was under the impression the System 360/30 that ate my FORTRAN IV cards was a computer of sorts.
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| From | Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 08:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <11b1uc4$uskq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #94074 |
>rbowman <bowman@montana.com>wrote: >>On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 07:20:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > >> OK I never got much into Python Never needed it for the things I do. >> Also it seems to be changing all the time? > >Except for the transition from 2 to 3 Python has been quite good at >maintaining backward compatibility. It changes as PEPs are implemented but >seldom do the changes break things. > >> But I come from a hardware background, in the sixties there were no >> 'computers' > >I was under the impression the System 360/30 that ate my FORTRAN IV cards >was a computer of sorts. > Yea I dunno, my first computer was a Sinclair ZX80 At work we had a PDP10? Worked a while at a large accelerator back then, made me buy a book on Unix. A bit later I had my own TV repair shop in Amsterdam and that is when I bought that Z80. Added some printer driver in Z80 asm to print receipts and stuff on a thermal printer. But then ..expanded that ZX80 with more memory, several I/O cards even added an IBM PC keyboard and ran the C80 C compiler on it I wanted to run software from the CPM user group but no CPM for that ZX80. So wrote my own CP/M clone and it worked: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/index.html Here what I added to that Sinclair Z80: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html By that time I was working in a company designing a.o. PCI cards for in IBM PCs My computer used a ramdisk and was faster than the IBM PC, no harddisc seek times.
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