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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #90485 > unrolled thread

Ancient History

Started byrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
First post2026-08-25 04:41 +0000
Last post2026-08-29 00:19 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 80 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 04:41 +0000
    Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 03:15 -0400
      Re: Ancient History John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-25 08:19 -0700
        Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 19:57 +0100
          Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 04:25 -0400
            Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:33 +0100
            Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:20 +0000
              Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 21:27 +0100
                Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 01:13 +0000
                  Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:24 -0400
                    Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 20:03 +0000
                      Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 23:47 -0400
                        Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 06:54 +0000
                          Re: Ancient History John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 09:28 -0700
                            Re: Ancient History Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 18:53 +0100
                            Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 20:58 +0000
                              Re: Ancient History John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 14:49 -0700
                                Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-29 05:41 +0000
                                  Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:00 -0400
                                    Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:00 +0100
                                  Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 09:57 +0100
                        Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:11 +0100
    Re: Ancient History "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:41 +0200
      Re: Ancient History Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:53 +0100
        Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:54 +0100
          Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:25 +0000
        Re: Ancient History "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 14:23 +0200
          Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 03:28 -0400
            Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 09:12 +0100
              Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:26 +0000
                Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:56 -0400
                  Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-27 12:00 +0100
                  Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 20:25 +0000
                    Re: Ancient History Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-27 21:48 +0000
                      Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 00:26 -0400
                        Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 06:59 +0000
                          Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:05 +0100
                            Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 21:02 +0000
                              Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:03 +0100
                      Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:03 +0100
                    Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 00:06 -0400
                      Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:08 +0100
                        Re: Ancient History "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-29 13:45 +0200
                    Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-28 12:03 +0100
                      Re: Ancient History Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-28 12:07 -0400
                        Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 21:00 +0000
                          Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:22 -0400
                          Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:01 +0100
                          Re: Ancient History Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-29 10:01 -0400
            Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 18:23 +0000
              Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-26 21:29 +0100
      Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:31 +0100
        Re: Ancient History Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-08-25 07:53 -0400
        Re: Ancient History Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
          Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:37 +0000
      Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:16 +0000
        Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:21 +0100
          Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-26 04:40 +0000
    Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:30 +0100
      Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-26 02:49 -0400
    Re: Ancient History "Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-08-25 20:07 +0800
    Re: Ancient History Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:20 -0400
      Re: Ancient History Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-08-25 17:44 +0000
      Re: Ancient History Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:55 +0000
    Re: Ancient History not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-08-27 08:59 +1000
      Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-27 01:20 +0000
        Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:38 -0400
          Re: Ancient History vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-27 08:08 +0000
            Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 22:13 -0400
              Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 04:24 +0000
      Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-27 03:21 -0400
        Re: Ancient History not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-08-28 08:58 +1000
          Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 00:36 -0400
          Re: Ancient History rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-28 04:42 +0000
            Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-28 02:37 -0400
            Re: Ancient History not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-08-29 07:40 +1000
              Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 02:03 -0400
              Re: Ancient History The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-29 10:06 +0100
    Re: Ancient History Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-28 08:59 +0100
      Re: Ancient History c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-29 00:19 -0400

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]


#90531

From"Mr. Chang Man-wai" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2026-08-25 20:07 +0800
Message-ID<116k0hd$3n4sc$1@toylet.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#90485
On 8/25/2026 12:41 PM, rbowman wrote:
> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower
> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario
> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.
> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB
> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing
> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it
> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.

HTTPS requires a lot of calculations. So
are many encrypted software updates including
Windows Update. And modern YouTube is high-
definition (720p and 1080p) and using high
refresh rates.

If you could find text-only HTTP (not HTTPS)
websites.... :)


-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw
          The game is afoot... Meow...

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#90540

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 11:20 -0400
Message-ID<116kbr5$3radh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90485
On Tue, 8/25/2026 12:41 AM, rbowman wrote:
> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower 
> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario 
> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II. 
> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB 
> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing 
> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it 
> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.
> 
> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax 
> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very 
> specific.
> 
> I think I'll let that sleeping dog slumber on although I might see if it 
> boots at all. 
> 
> Now for the real puzzle. I was a fairly decent machine in 1997 and came 
> with Windows 95. Windows 95 claimed a minimum of 4 MB, recommended 8 MB, 
> and if you had 16 MB or more didn't bother creating a swap file. What the 
> flaming hell has happened to us?  Even by Windows 98 24 MB was 
> recommended. Now you can barely run a pared down Linux in 48 MB and I 
> doubt it's a very appealing UX.
> 

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=50935

    "I find working through all the "trouble" to be more rewarding than the result."

A lot of software you could run on such a machine, would have an "SSE2 requirement",
so you may have to stick with software from the era.

At one time, packed data structures were "quite popular". Today, you can have
an individual write an image utility, where instead of using 24 bits for
a pixel, "each color is represented by a 64 bit number" or "we're using a floating
point number for R, for G, and for B". Proud claims of piggish design :-)
The reason I note this, is one day, I attempted to open an image,
sure, the image was a large one, the machine returns "out of RAM".
And that's when I started checking for what exactly they were
doing inside. You do an eye roll. You're yelling "why would you do this?".
And so on :-)

   Paul

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#90548

FromRobert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Date2026-08-25 17:44 +0000
Message-ID<slrn118rl34.pgj.spamtrap42@one.localnet>
In reply to#90540
On 2026-08-25, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 8/25/2026 12:41 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower 
>> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario 
>> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II. 
>> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB 
>> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing 
>> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it 
>> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.
>> 
>> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax 
>> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very 
>> specific.
>> 
>> I think I'll let that sleeping dog slumber on although I might see if it 
>> boots at all. 
>> 
>> Now for the real puzzle. I was a fairly decent machine in 1997 and came 
>> with Windows 95. Windows 95 claimed a minimum of 4 MB, recommended 8 MB, 
>> and if you had 16 MB or more didn't bother creating a swap file. What the 
>> flaming hell has happened to us?  Even by Windows 98 24 MB was 
>> recommended. Now you can barely run a pared down Linux in 48 MB and I 
>> doubt it's a very appealing UX.
>> 
>
> https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=50935
>
>     "I find working through all the "trouble" to be more rewarding than the result."
>
> A lot of software you could run on such a machine, would have an "SSE2 requirement",
> so you may have to stick with software from the era.
>
> At one time, packed data structures were "quite popular". Today, you can have
> an individual write an image utility, where instead of using 24 bits for
> a pixel, "each color is represented by a 64 bit number" or "we're using a floating
> point number for R, for G, and for B". Proud claims of piggish design :-)
> The reason I note this, is one day, I attempted to open an image,
> sure, the image was a large one, the machine returns "out of RAM".
> And that's when I started checking for what exactly they were
> doing inside. You do an eye roll. You're yelling "why would you do this?".
> And so on :-)
>
>    Paul

What image [mis-]handling software was being that wasteful of
RAM?

ImageMagick also has a limit on the size of a "pixel cache" with
a default of 2GiB.  That limit can be exceeded when working with
fairly high resolution scans of full-page paper documents.
Fortunately, it is fairly easy to specify a larger limit in
/etc/ImageMagick-7/policy.xml

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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#90571

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-25 21:55 +0000
Message-ID<116l307$4nha$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90540
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:20:03 -0400, Paul wrote:

> At one time, packed data structures were "quite popular". Today, you
> can have an individual write an image utility, where instead of
> using 24 bits for a pixel, "each color is represented by a 64 bit
> number" or "we're using a floating point number for R, for G, and
> for B". Proud claims of piggish design :-) The reason I note this,
> is one day, I attempted to open an image, sure, the image was a
> large one, the machine returns "out of RAM". And that's when I
> started checking for what exactly they were doing inside. You do an
> eye roll.

Sounds like OpenEXR. Quite popular among the CG content-creation
crowd. Also incidentally something that Adobe isn’t quite au fait
with.

<https://openexr.com/>.

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#90651

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-08-27 08:59 +1000
Message-ID<6a8f6fbe@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#90485
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower 
> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario 
> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II. 
> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB 
> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing 
> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it 
> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.

Very modern compared to the 120MHz Pentium 1 I'm posting this from,
running old Linux.

> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax 
> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very 
> specific.

For current Tiny Core I don't think their standard boot to RAM
method will fit in 48MB anymore, but if you do a manual "HDD
install" it will boot with 20MB RAM, and then their default Xvesa
TinyX server will probably work in 48MB.

> Now for the real puzzle. I was a fairly decent machine in 1997 and came 
> with Windows 95. Windows 95 claimed a minimum of 4 MB, recommended 8 MB, 
> and if you had 16 MB or more didn't bother creating a swap file. What the 
> flaming hell has happened to us?  Even by Windows 98 24 MB was 
> recommended. Now you can barely run a pared down Linux in 48 MB and I 
> doubt it's a very appealing UX.

Some bloat is from the drivers. OpenWRT separately packages a lot of
modules for things that are built into the kernel in other distro's
kernel builds. Since the total size of the kernel is subtracted
from the RAM that's left available for everything else, that allows
booting in less RAM. But even the size of that minimum kernel has
grown rapidly in recent years such that they no longer officially
support routers with 32MB RAM.

Otherwise it's software choice. I wonder if the "UX" I choose for
all my Linux systems regardless of performance isn't appealing to
you since it's largely the same set of software that my Pentium 1
can run. However in some cases where I've had to find alternatives
due to incompatibility with modern Linux/libraries maybe the
"appealing UX" is why I classed them all as useless? Each to his
own...

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#90655

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-27 01:20 +0000
Message-ID<nf9hn6FprcuU18@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90651
On 27 Aug 2026 08:59:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> Otherwise it's software choice. I wonder if the "UX" I choose for all my
> Linux systems regardless of performance isn't appealing to you since
> it's largely the same set of software that my Pentium 1 can run. However
> in some cases where I've had to find alternatives due to incompatibility
> with modern Linux/libraries maybe the "appealing UX" is why I classed
> them all as useless? Each to his own...

I've been spoiled over the decades but antiX's IceWM is about my minimum 
unless you cound i3 or sway. 

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#90667

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-27 03:38 -0400
Message-ID<G6-dnT5sRIABdBL3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90655
On 8/26/26 21:20, rbowman wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2026 08:59:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> 
>> Otherwise it's software choice. I wonder if the "UX" I choose for all my
>> Linux systems regardless of performance isn't appealing to you since
>> it's largely the same set of software that my Pentium 1 can run. However
>> in some cases where I've had to find alternatives due to incompatibility
>> with modern Linux/libraries maybe the "appealing UX" is why I classed
>> them all as useless? Each to his own...
> 
> I've been spoiled over the decades but antiX's IceWM is about my minimum
> unless you cound i3 or sway.

   ANTIX with ICEWM will indeed Get It Done while
   using kinda minimal resources.

   It's not the easiest/prettiest ... but Gets It Done.

   If a hard-core you can go with pure Terminal Mode too,
   dump 'XORG'. Saves a lot of RAM and complexity. For,
   say, a PI-2, it's a fair option. DID have one of those,
   doing it's little thing, for a DECADE.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#90674

Fromvallor <vallor@vallor.earth>
Date2026-08-27 08:08 +0000
Message-ID<116ora7$19jd7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90667
At Thu, 27 Aug 2026 03:38:48 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> On 8/26/26 21:20, rbowman wrote:
> > On 27 Aug 2026 08:59:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> > 
> >> Otherwise it's software choice. I wonder if the "UX" I choose for all my
> >> Linux systems regardless of performance isn't appealing to you since
> >> it's largely the same set of software that my Pentium 1 can run. However
> >> in some cases where I've had to find alternatives due to incompatibility
> >> with modern Linux/libraries maybe the "appealing UX" is why I classed
> >> them all as useless? Each to his own...
> > 
> > I've been spoiled over the decades but antiX's IceWM is about my minimum
> > unless you cound i3 or sway.
> 
>    ANTIX with ICEWM will indeed Get It Done while
>    using kinda minimal resources.
> 
>    It's not the easiest/prettiest ... but Gets It Done.
> 
>    If a hard-core you can go with pure Terminal Mode too,
>    dump 'XORG'. Saves a lot of RAM and complexity. For,
>    say, a PI-2, it's a fair option. DID have one of those,
>    doing it's little thing, for a DECADE.

I used to use just the raw console, until my colleagues dragged
me kicking and screaming into the world of X11.

So I spent a weekend at my desk at SRJC, with some O'Reilly
nutshell books and dug into setting up my X environment.

Besides twm, my first window manager was the OpenLook Virtual
Window Manager, olvwm:

https://vallor.earth/screenshots/screensh.gif

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
   OS: Linux 7.2.0 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
   NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
   "Bureaucrat, n.: A person who cuts red tape sideways."

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#90709

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-27 22:13 -0400
Message-ID<zX6dnaiqj-cqcw33nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90674
On 8/27/26 04:08, vallor wrote:
> At Thu, 27 Aug 2026 03:38:48 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 8/26/26 21:20, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 27 Aug 2026 08:59:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Otherwise it's software choice. I wonder if the "UX" I choose for all my
>>>> Linux systems regardless of performance isn't appealing to you since
>>>> it's largely the same set of software that my Pentium 1 can run. However
>>>> in some cases where I've had to find alternatives due to incompatibility
>>>> with modern Linux/libraries maybe the "appealing UX" is why I classed
>>>> them all as useless? Each to his own...
>>>
>>> I've been spoiled over the decades but antiX's IceWM is about my minimum
>>> unless you cound i3 or sway.
>>
>>     ANTIX with ICEWM will indeed Get It Done while
>>     using kinda minimal resources.
>>
>>     It's not the easiest/prettiest ... but Gets It Done.
>>
>>     If a hard-core you can go with pure Terminal Mode too,
>>     dump 'XORG'. Saves a lot of RAM and complexity. For,
>>     say, a PI-2, it's a fair option. DID have one of those,
>>     doing it's little thing, for a DECADE.
> 
> I used to use just the raw console, until my colleagues dragged
> me kicking and screaming into the world of X11.

   X11 is 'ok'. It gets things done and is
   extensively documents and has lots of
   accessory utils at this point. Do NOT
   like Wayland at all. Maybe a clever 'AI'
   can go thru X11 and tighten it up ?

   Only used pure terminal with the very oldest,
   kinda original, Linux you could get. Slack,
   Red Hat and SUSE could be bought off store
   shelves back in the day, on floppies. But
   soon enough X11 was *just* good enough to be
   worth spending half a day installing. Great
   fun getting the monitor and mouse params
   set just right :-)

   Anyway, for low-powered boards, pure terminal
   may still be the way to go. You'll miss out on
   a lot of nice useful apps though. Had put a
   couple of the original PIs to work - the ones
   with fewer pins - and they used terminal AND
   did their little things for a good decade with
   no problems.

   Around the 10th year I finally remembered them -
   upgraded to the newest PiOS,  but still terminal
   mode. Zero probs, they Just Worked. They were NOT
   'online' so there were no 'security' worries. Were
   still doing their things when I retired. The new
   geek has likely trashed them alas - he kinda ONLY
   did Winders and lucky if he could write a 10 line
   Python script. DID know a lot more about M$ online
   services/packages than I did however.

> So I spent a weekend at my desk at SRJC, with some O'Reilly
> nutshell books and dug into setting up my X environment.
> 
> Besides twm, my first window manager was the OpenLook Virtual
> Window Manager, olvwm:
> 
> https://vallor.earth/screenshots/screensh.gif

   Heh heh ... X11 and friends did NOT just work out
   of the box back then. No plug-n-play. Lots of odd
   config files to tweak and re-tweak and re-tweak
   often with very minimal documentation.

   But it's much better now. As for the CPU/mem
   used by X11 and other GUI systems, even the
   dead cheap boards have WAY more than enough.

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#90723

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-28 04:24 +0000
Message-ID<nfcgseFprcuU32@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90709
On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 22:13:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Heh heh ... X11 and friends did NOT just work out of the box back
>    then. No plug-n-play. Lots of odd config files to tweak and re-tweak
>    and re-tweak often with very minimal documentation.

One of the first things I do is switch the mouse buttons. A GUI is 
certainly nice compared to hunting down xorg.conf and trying to remember 
which pointer number was which. In the newer versions it's an InputDevice 
rather than Pointer.

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#90664

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-27 03:21 -0400
Message-ID<hwKdnfBu5K8ReBL3nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90651
On 8/26/26 18:59, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower
>> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario
>> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.
>> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB
>> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing
>> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it
>> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.
> 
> Very modern compared to the 120MHz Pentium 1 I'm posting this from,
> running old Linux.
> 
>> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax
>> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very
>> specific.
> 
> For current Tiny Core I don't think their standard boot to RAM
> method will fit in 48MB anymore, but if you do a manual "HDD
> install" it will boot with 20MB RAM, and then their default Xvesa
> TinyX server will probably work in 48MB.


   Linux IS just 'fatter' than DOS or CP/M ... no
   getting around it. For very old boards you
   really MAY be better off with DOS if you are
   seriously trying to squeeze things in.

   Linux is 'better' for MOST stuff ... but if
   your resources are VERY limited .....

   Sorry, NO 'panacea' ... gotta pick the best
   system for what YOU have/need at the moment.

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#90699

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-08-28 08:58 +1000
Message-ID<6a90c126@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#90664
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 8/26/26 18:59, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower
>>> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario
>>> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.
>>> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB
>>> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing
>>> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it
>>> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.
>> 
>> Very modern compared to the 120MHz Pentium 1 I'm posting this from,
>> running old Linux.
>> 
>>> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax
>>> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very
>>> specific.
>> 
>> For current Tiny Core I don't think their standard boot to RAM
>> method will fit in 48MB anymore, but if you do a manual "HDD
>> install" it will boot with 20MB RAM, and then their default Xvesa
>> TinyX server will probably work in 48MB.
> 
> 
>   Linux IS just 'fatter' than DOS or CP/M ... no
>   getting around it. For very old boards you
>   really MAY be better off with DOS if you are
>   seriously trying to squeeze things in.

Well no, on this Pentium 1 I find old Linux most useful, but I do
sometimes find cause to boot to MSDOS or Win98. Often for running
software that works with old hardware devices.

If you've got an 8086 then of course you'll be looking at DOS
instead. But Linux is definitely an option for a Pentium II, even
if that one might want a RAM upgrade for running current versions
easily.

>   Linux is 'better' for MOST stuff ... but if
>   your resources are VERY limited .....

Modern Linux at least, but if you don't mind running very old
versions, BasicLinux is good for installing on the bare minimum of
hardware that ever ran Linux:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#90724

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-28 00:36 -0400
Message-ID<wxednYU-UqrrjQz3nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90699
On 8/27/26 18:58, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 8/26/26 18:59, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> In my OCD quest to rejuvenate old machines I finally dug out the tower
>>>> buried under other junk out in the shed. Turns out it's a Compaq Presario
>>>> 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.
>>>> It was pin compatible and could be used in a Socket 7 board. It has 48 MB
>>>> of RAM (no, that's not a typo) and a 4 GB HDD. For your computing
>>>> convenient, it has a 56K modem. There are 2 USB ports although I think it
>>>> expects the mouse and keyboard to be plugged into the PS2 ports.
>>>
>>> Very modern compared to the 120MHz Pentium 1 I'm posting this from,
>>> running old Linux.
>>>
>>>> Two distros that claim to run in 48 MB are Tiny Core and Slax. slax
>>>> specifies text only unless you have more RAM. Tiny Core isn't very
>>>> specific.
>>>
>>> For current Tiny Core I don't think their standard boot to RAM
>>> method will fit in 48MB anymore, but if you do a manual "HDD
>>> install" it will boot with 20MB RAM, and then their default Xvesa
>>> TinyX server will probably work in 48MB.
>>
>>
>>    Linux IS just 'fatter' than DOS or CP/M ... no
>>    getting around it. For very old boards you
>>    really MAY be better off with DOS if you are
>>    seriously trying to squeeze things in.
> 
> Well no, on this Pentium 1 I find old Linux most useful, but I do
> sometimes find cause to boot to MSDOS or Win98. Often for running
> software that works with old hardware devices.

   By Pentium we were all good. But 88/186/286 ...

   Have not seen anything being sold as 'computers'
   lately using those old chips ... but there ARE
   some 'industrial/control' boards, oft PC-104,
   which do and are STILL doing their things.

   DID come across some 'Z-80' kit boards on Amazon
   not too long ago. Old old chip, but still has its
   charms and uses in certain areas. No, you are
   not gonna run Linux on it.

> If you've got an 8086 then of course you'll be looking at DOS
> instead. But Linux is definitely an option for a Pentium II, even
> if that one might want a RAM upgrade for running current versions
> easily.
> 
>>    Linux is 'better' for MOST stuff ... but if
>>    your resources are VERY limited .....
> 
> Modern Linux at least, but if you don't mind running very old
> versions, BasicLinux is good for installing on the bare minimum of
> hardware that ever ran Linux:
> 
> http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/

   That's probably the smallest/tightest Linux, but
   I'd have to research. Old, but if TINY is what
   you really need for yer Project-X. The MODEL is
   a bit weird however, runs UNDER a DOS system.

   Do look into Slitaz ... the very basic version is
   also pretty damned small - the equal of Puppy or
   DSL as terminal-only, but with a little more charm.

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#90725

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-08-28 04:42 +0000
Message-ID<nfcht1FprcuU33@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90699
On 28 Aug 2026 08:58:46 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> If you've got an 8086 then of course you'll be looking at DOS instead.
> But Linux is definitely an option for a Pentium II, even if that one
> might want a RAM upgrade for running current versions easily.

Amazingly Amazon has 512 MB SyncRAM listed. I'm not sure the BIOS wouldn't 
have a meltdown. It's been too long and I don't remember the specifics but 
I had one box where I couldn't use what was then the readily available and 
cheap hard drives because they were too big. I hit the local shops looking 
for a vintage drive and their answer was 'Nah, we just throw those in the 
dumpster if we get one.'

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#90730

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-28 02:37 -0400
Message-ID<wxednbk-UqpIsQz3nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90725
On 8/28/26 00:42, rbowman wrote:
> On 28 Aug 2026 08:58:46 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> 
>> If you've got an 8086 then of course you'll be looking at DOS instead.
>> But Linux is definitely an option for a Pentium II, even if that one
>> might want a RAM upgrade for running current versions easily.
> 
> Amazingly Amazon has 512 MB SyncRAM listed. I'm not sure the BIOS wouldn't
> have a meltdown. It's been too long and I don't remember the specifics but
> I had one box where I couldn't use what was then the readily available and
> cheap hard drives because they were too big. I hit the local shops looking
> for a vintage drive and their answer was 'Nah, we just throw those in the
> dumpster if we get one.'

   Put down a deposit. Have them KEEP the drives and
   call you.

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#90785

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-08-29 07:40 +1000
Message-ID<6a920055@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#90725
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On 28 Aug 2026 08:58:46 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> I had one box where I couldn't use what was then the readily available and 
> cheap hard drives because they were too big. I hit the local shops looking 
> for a vintage drive and their answer was 'Nah, we just throw those in the 
> dumpster if we get one.'

Some drives had a jumper setting to limit their capacity to under
the point where some BIOSs got confused.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#90796

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-29 02:03 -0400
Message-ID<xcGcnV6bb90S6w_3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90785
On 8/28/26 17:40, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On 28 Aug 2026 08:58:46 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> I had one box where I couldn't use what was then the readily available and
>> cheap hard drives because they were too big. I hit the local shops looking
>> for a vintage drive and their answer was 'Nah, we just throw those in the
>> dumpster if we get one.'
> 
> Some drives had a jumper setting to limit their capacity to under
> the point where some BIOSs got confused.

   Many mag drives STILL have those jumper pins.

   But less and less INFO on how to USE them
   to best effect.

   I have a MIX of SSD/Mag drives. Each has its
   own good qualities.

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#90806

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-08-29 10:06 +0100
Message-ID<116u7er$3345j$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90785
On 28/08/2026 22:40, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On 28 Aug 2026 08:58:46 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> I had one box where I couldn't use what was then the readily available and
>> cheap hard drives because they were too big. I hit the local shops looking
>> for a vintage drive and their answer was 'Nah, we just throw those in the
>> dumpster if we get one.'
> 
> Some drives had a jumper setting to limit their capacity to under
> the point where some BIOSs got confused.
> 
I had one job that entailed modifying a BIOS to use 2k sectors instead 
of the default 512b.

That took us from 32MB to 128MB and allowed the machines to be shipped 
with 80Mbyte drives.

I cant remember if that involved actually creating 2k sectors or 
translating between 512 and 2k on the fly so that DOS *thought* the 
drive  had 2k sectors.

-- 
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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#90737

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2026-08-28 08:59 +0100
Message-ID<nfctatFgb90U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#90485
rbowman wrote:

> I finally dug out the tower buried under other junk out in the shed.
> Turns out it's a Compaq Presario 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that
> was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.

Over the years I have turfed-out numerous machines, there are a couple 
of servers wish I'd had the space to keep (DEC Alphaserver 2100a, HP 
9000/800-F10) and one VAXserver 3300 that I have kept.  The only 
"normal" PC I've kept the components from is an ABIT BP6 ...

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#90790

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-08-29 00:19 -0400
Message-ID<xcGcnSKbb926ww_3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#90737
On 8/28/26 03:59, Andy Burns wrote:
> rbowman wrote:
> 
>> I finally dug out the tower buried under other junk out in the shed.
>> Turns out it's a Compaq Presario 4550. It has a 233 MHz AMD K6 that
>> was AMDs challenge to the Pentium II.
> 
> Over the years I have turfed-out numerous machines, there are a couple 
> of servers wish I'd had the space to keep (DEC Alphaserver 2100a, HP 
> 9000/800-F10) and one VAXserver 3300 that I have kept.  The only 
> "normal" PC I've kept the components from is an ABIT BP6 ...

   I overhauled my 'tower' a few of years
   back - not a bad, high-clocked, P5, Asus
   quality. Lots of RAM, SSDs.

   Set it up, MX Linux, and then it's been OFF
   ever since. Relegated to the Back Room. Kinda
   use nothing but cheap laptops and those mini-
   boxes for all my stuff now. No, DON'T do games.

   "Raw Power" used to be a thing - maybe still
   has its place in some spheres - but no longer
   in MINE.

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