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AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos

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  AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 00:26 -0400
    Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:03 +0000
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 08:16 +0000
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:00 -0400
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 13:24 +0100
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 12:33 +0100
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-08 17:31 +0000
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:18 -0400
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 13:25 +0100
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-09 19:07 +0000
              Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:28 +0100
              Life in Russia - US vs Russian propagando (Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-09 13:21 -0700
              Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos "Stanislav N. aka pztrn" <pztrn@oldproto.invalid> - 2026-08-10 05:28 +0500
                Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:15 +0100
                  Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos "Stanislav N. aka pztrn" <pztrn@oldproto.invalid> - 2026-08-10 10:51 +0500
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-09 18:47 +0000
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:26 +0100
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-10 00:06 -0400
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 20:54 -0400
        CLASS in Europe and America Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-09 07:10 -0700
          Re: CLASS in Europe and America Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-09 16:48 +0000
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:22 +0100
          Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-09 23:59 -0400
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:16 +0100
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-10 05:35 -0700
              Re: Class in Europe and America Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-11 00:01 +0000
                Re: Class in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-11 03:41 +0000
                  Re: Class in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-11 00:34 -0400
              Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-14 23:51 -0400
                Re: CLASS in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-15 07:27 +0000
                  Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-15 23:06 -0400
                    Re: CLASS in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-16 03:32 +0000
                      Re: CLASS in Europe and America Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-16 04:12 +0000
                        Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-16 01:22 -0400
                        Re: CLASS in Europe and America Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-16 06:46 +0000
                          Re: CLASS in Europe and America "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-16 11:03 +0200
                          Re: CLASS in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-16 19:29 +0000
                      Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-16 01:13 -0400
                        Re: CLASS in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-16 06:00 +0000
                          Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-16 02:46 -0400
                            Re: CLASS in Europe and America Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2026-08-16 07:41 +0000
                            Re: CLASS in Europe and America rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-16 19:47 +0000
                          Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-16 11:46 +0100
                    Re: CLASS in Europe and America Bob Vloon <usenet@bananacorp.nl.invalid> - 2026-08-16 15:28 +0000
                      Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-16 17:51 +0100
    Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 09:44 +0100
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:13 -0400
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 09:26 +0100

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#89806 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 2026-08-09, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment 
> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar 
> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high 
> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of 
> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.

In one sense, though, the USA has achieved a classless society.
Their president, for instance, has no class at all.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89815 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 09/08/2026 17:48, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-08-09, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
> 
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment
>> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar
>> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high
>> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of
>> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
> In one sense, though, the USA has achieved a classless society.
> Their president, for instance, has no class at all.
> 
This is sadly true


-- 
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

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#89831 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-08 17:54, c186282 wrote:
>> On 8/8/26 03:03, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     The USA/west DO have serious enemies - and they're
>>>>     tech-savvy. Bear that in mind.
>>>
>>> Some of them are in the USA itself.  Can you say "tech oligarchs"?
>>>
>>> Unless you define "USA" as the oligarchs themselves, of course.
>>
>>    Nah, USA isn't that 'simple' - and too volatile.
>>    The rich become poor and the poor become rich
>>    too easily, too often, in the USA to sustain
>>    a traditional oligarchy. It's easier in Europe
>>    with its more rigid/established classes.
> 
> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment 
> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar 
> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high 
> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of 
> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.

   The UK is still probably THE worst in the
   vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
   to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
   never be seen as a real "peer".

   It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
   looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
   news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
   under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
   maybe easier, "keep", not so much.

   And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
   Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
   you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
   to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
   to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
   they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...

   Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
   spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
   weak and thus things change fast.

   "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
   on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
   the normal cycle in USA.

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#89841 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 10/08/2026 04:59, c186282 wrote:
> On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-08 17:54, c186282 wrote:
>>> On 8/8/26 03:03, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     The USA/west DO have serious enemies - and they're
>>>>>     tech-savvy. Bear that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> Some of them are in the USA itself.  Can you say "tech oligarchs"?
>>>>
>>>> Unless you define "USA" as the oligarchs themselves, of course.
>>>
>>>    Nah, USA isn't that 'simple' - and too volatile.
>>>    The rich become poor and the poor become rich
>>>    too easily, too often, in the USA to sustain
>>>    a traditional oligarchy. It's easier in Europe
>>>    with its more rigid/established classes.
>>
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class 
>> entrenchment in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am 
>> intimately familar with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) 
>> that they have high social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a 
>> new business in most of Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
>    The UK is still probably THE worst in the
>    vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
>    to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
>    never be seen as a real "peer".
> 
I see you have never visited

>    It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
>    looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
>    news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
>    under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
>    maybe easier, "keep", not so much.
> 
>    And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
>    Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
>    you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
>    to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
>    to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
>    they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...
> 
>    Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
>    spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
>    weak and thus things change fast.
> 
>    "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
>    on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
>    the normal cycle in USA.
> 

No class at all.

-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#89856 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

> On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class 
>> entrenchment in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am 
>> intimately familar with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) 
>> that they have high social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a 
>> new business in most of Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
On 2026-08-09 20:59, c186282 wrote:
>    The UK is still probably THE worst in the
>    vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
>    to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
>    never be seen as a real "peer".
> 
>    It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
>    looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
>    news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
>    under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
>    maybe easier, "keep", not so much.
> 
>    And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
>    Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
>    you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
>    to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
>    to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
>    they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...
> 
>    Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
>    spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
>    weak and thus things change fast.
> 
>    "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
>    on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
>    the normal cycle in USA.

That used to be the story, but it is much less so. It is now quite easy 
for the older generation to protect the wealth and avoid taxation.
Not only are inheritance taxes all but abolished, but once you have 
enough wealth, you do not even pay income taxes in the accumulation
phase: Borrow to spend ... and then there is a "tax-free basis step-up"
upon inheritance.

Also, US law - or at least its implementation - has been distorted to 
where "business friendly" is understood as "big business friendly" to 
the detriment of small businesses. At least in the Nordics, government 
programs favor mom-and-pop businesses and startups.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#89864 — Re: Class in Europe and America

On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 05:35:06 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Also, US law - or at least its implementation - has been distorted
> to where "business friendly" is understood as "big business
> friendly" to the detriment of small businesses.

The USians have this fond belief that “free” must mean “no
regulation”. They have difficulty understanding that a free,
competitive market can only remain free with careful regulation. That
means the regulator must have the power to stand up to big businesses
that might try to intimidate it into allowing them to continue their
abuses.

Of course, a regulator can only be trusted with such power if it is
seen to be politically independent. In the US, everything is
politicized, so there is no chance of this.

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#89870 — Re: Class in Europe and America

On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 00:01:59 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> Of course, a regulator can only be trusted with such power if it is seen
> to be politically independent. In the US, everything is politicized, so
> there is no chance of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

The bearings of the revolving door are kept well greased.

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#89871 — Re: Class in Europe and America

On 8/10/26 23:41, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 00:01:59 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>> Of course, a regulator can only be trusted with such power if it is seen
>> to be politically independent. In the US, everything is politicized, so
>> there is no chance of this.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
> 
> The bearings of the revolving door are kept well greased.

   Yep !  :-)

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#89903 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/10/26 08:35, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class 
>>> entrenchment in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am 
>>> intimately familar with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) 
>>> that they have high social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a 
>>> new business in most of Europe. Universal health care is one huge 
>>> reason.
>>
> On 2026-08-09 20:59, c186282 wrote:
>>    The UK is still probably THE worst in the
>>    vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
>>    to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
>>    never be seen as a real "peer".
>>
>>    It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
>>    looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
>>    news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
>>    under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
>>    maybe easier, "keep", not so much.
>>
>>    And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
>>    Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
>>    you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
>>    to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
>>    to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
>>    they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...
>>
>>    Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
>>    spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
>>    weak and thus things change fast.
>>
>>    "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
>>    on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
>>    the normal cycle in USA.
> 
> That used to be the story, but it is much less so. It is now quite easy 
> for the older generation to protect the wealth and avoid taxation.


   Umm ... no ... you really CAN'T protect wealth
   from clueless useless, spoiled grand-kids. They
   WILL blow it all, fast.  :-)


> Not only are inheritance taxes all but abolished, but once you have 
> enough wealth, you do not even pay income taxes in the accumulation
> phase: Borrow to spend ... and then there is a "tax-free basis step-up"
> upon inheritance.
> 
> Also, US law - or at least its implementation - has been distorted to 
> where "business friendly" is understood as "big business friendly" to 
> the detriment of small businesses. At least in the Nordics, government 
> programs favor mom-and-pop businesses and startups.

   Businesses are Very Important.

   Or are you looking for some kind of medieval
   starving-farmer equation ???

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#89905 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer equation
>    ???

The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved. Is 
a business that depends on arbitrage a business? How much of the current 
economy depends on usury in one form or the other. 

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#89917 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/15/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer equation
>>     ???
> 
> The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved. 

   ALL, no. LOTS and LOTS, yes.

> Is
> a business that depends on arbitrage a business? How much of the current
> economy depends on usury in one form or the other.

   It's ALL "usury" - always HAS been. IMHO it
   always WILL be, depending on yer chosen defs.

   To GET stuff you have to DO stuff - for somebody
   or some org. THEY have to do stuff, for somebody,
   to keep whatever endeavor going.

   The Marxist FANTASY of everybody getting all they
   want for "free" regardless ... Harry Potter is
   more plausible.

   Note that even China is now basically CAPITALIST.
   They kinda TRIED it Mao's way - and it SUCKED,
   indeed killed upteen millions. A giant clusterfuck.
   When optimistic theory meets hard reality, guess
   which wins ?

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#89918 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 23:06:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 8/15/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>> 
>>>     Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer
>>>     equation ???
>> 
>> The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved.
> 
>    ALL, no. LOTS and LOTS, yes.

While there is always luck involved the more capable, provident farmers 
survived. Today, to extend the metaphor, half of the provident farmer's 
crop would be confiscated to support his neighbor who is incompetent or 
too lazy to bother to plow, sow, and reap. 

>    It's ALL "usury" - always HAS been. IMHO it always WILL be, depending
>    on yer chosen defs.

You have a strange definition of usury.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/54319/canto-xlv

Dante put usurers in the 7th circle of hell, along with blasphemers and 
those who sin against nature. That presumably would include the officials 
on the WNBA who aren't sure what a woman is. 

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#89919 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 2026-08-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 23:06:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>
>> On 8/15/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>> 
>>>>     Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer
>>>>     equation ???
>>> 
>>> The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved.
>> 
>>    ALL, no. LOTS and LOTS, yes.
>
> While there is always luck involved the more capable, provident farmers 
> survived. Today, to extend the metaphor, half of the provident farmer's 
> crop would be confiscated to support his neighbor who is incompetent or 
> too lazy to bother to plow, sow, and reap. 

It's time to dig up that old article from rec.humour.funny:

Guide to politicial systems
---------------------------

Socialism - You have two cows.  The government takes one
  to give to someone else.

Communism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
  and gives you the milk.

Fascism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
  and sells you the milk.

Nazism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
  and shoots you.

Bureaucracy - You have two cows.  The government takes both,
  shoots one, and pours the milk down the drain.

Capitalism - You have two cows.  You sell one and buy a bull.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89921 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/16/26 00:12, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-08-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 23:06:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/15/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>      Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer
>>>>>      equation ???
>>>>
>>>> The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved.
>>>
>>>     ALL, no. LOTS and LOTS, yes.
>>
>> While there is always luck involved the more capable, provident farmers
>> survived. Today, to extend the metaphor, half of the provident farmer's
>> crop would be confiscated to support his neighbor who is incompetent or
>> too lazy to bother to plow, sow, and reap.
> 
> It's time to dig up that old article from rec.humour.funny:
> 
> Guide to politicial systems
> ---------------------------
> 
> Socialism - You have two cows.  The government takes one
>    to give to someone else.
> 
> Communism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
>    and gives you the milk.
> 
> Fascism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
>    and sells you the milk.
> 
> Nazism - You have two cows.  The government takes both
>    and shoots you.
> 
> Bureaucracy - You have two cows.  The government takes both,
>    shoots one, and pours the milk down the drain.
> 
> Capitalism - You have two cows.  You sell one and buy a bull.


   I think you pretty much "got it" !  :-)

   As Madonna said, it's a material world. Only JUST so
   much of everything. Even try to spread it all out
   and there's NOTHING. No gain, no future.

   Sorry, no Five-Star-For-All existence unless you have
   Harry Potter's wand.

   RBowman is USUALLY a very smart guy, but his socioeconomics
   seem a bit, well .......

   A good reason to just stick to Linux/Unix in these
   groups. Alas, I admit it, sometimes there's just NOT
   much 'news' or new stuff ... so we get 'drift'.

   'Capitalism' can seem 'mean' sometimes ... but it
   seems to WORK, kinda the BEST, most often. Sort
   of what Churchill said about 'democracy'.

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#89926 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 04:12:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> Capitalism - You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

Bulls are only good for one thing. And they’re a lot of trouble to
have around when they’re not fulfilling that one function.

So the smart Capitalist will not *buy* one, but only *hire* one at
appropriate times throughout the year. Plus you also get to write off
the hire cost as an operating expense, instead of having to depreciate
its purchase as a capital cost over some number of years.

Greetings from a country 🇳🇿 which derives a large chunk of its income
from dairy farming. That involves having lots of cows around, and just
the right number of bulls, and no more.

Oh, and by the usual 🇺🇸 mentality we’re probably a “Socialist” nation,
too. While they’re the ones who have special Government-provided
protections for their farmers, and we don’t.

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#89934 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 2026-08-16 08:46, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 04:12:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> Capitalism - You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
> 
> Bulls are only good for one thing. And they’re a lot of trouble to
> have around when they’re not fulfilling that one function.
> 
> So the smart Capitalist will not *buy* one, but only *hire* one at
> appropriate times throughout the year. Plus you also get to write off
> the hire cost as an operating expense, instead of having to depreciate
> its purchase as a capital cost over some number of years.

They don't hire them: transporting them is problematic and expensive. 
They just buy the semen, and inseminate it artificially, probably hiring 
a vet or an expert.

However, in capitalism somebody will try to sell you a bull and rip you off.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#89946 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 06:46:24 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 04:12:12 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> Capitalism - You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
> 
> Bulls are only good for one thing. And they’re a lot of trouble to have
> around when they’re not fulfilling that one function.

A friend was a dairy farmer, or I should say he worked a day job at an 
electronics plant to keep the dairy farm afloat. He was working in the 
barn when the bull hooked him. That was the last straw so he got his rifle 
and shot the bull. Then he realized he couldn't get the tractor into that 
part of the barn to drag the carcass out. it was a bad day.

https://farms.extension.wisc.edu/articles/a-history-of-dairy-in-the-farm-
bill-and-what-it-means-for-the-current-legislation/

"The 1970s and 80s saw several pieces of dairy-specific legislation, 
including the Dairy Production Stabilization Act of 1983. The Dairy Price 
Support Program aimed to keep dairy prices stable by purchasing surplus 
butter, cheese, and nonfat dry milk at specified prices. Given surplus 
production and low prices, the 1985 Farm Bill included the Dairy 
Termination Program, which paid farmers to slaughter dairy cattle and exit 
the industry for five years. The Milk Diversion Program also encouraged 
farmers to reduce milk production by providing them financial incentives."

That's how 'capitalism' works in the US. People who had been struggling to 
keep the family farm they had inherited going were very happy to take the 
off ramp, slaughter the cows, and subdivided the acreage for McMansions.

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#89920 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/15/26 23:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 23:06:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 8/15/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 23:51:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>>>      Or are you looking for some kind of medieval starving-farmer
>>>>      equation ???
>>>
>>> The fact that Usenet exists suggests that not all the farmers starved.
>>
>>     ALL, no. LOTS and LOTS, yes.
> 
> While there is always luck involved the more capable, provident farmers
> survived. Today, to extend the metaphor, half of the provident farmer's
> crop would be confiscated to support his neighbor who is incompetent or
> too lazy to bother to plow, sow, and reap.
> 
>>     It's ALL "usury" - always HAS been. IMHO it always WILL be, depending
>>     on yer chosen defs.
> 
> You have a strange definition of usury.

   I tend to think it's the most realistic, most
   broadly adaptable.

> https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/54319/canto-xlv
> 
> Dante put usurers in the 7th circle of hell, along with blasphemers and
> those who sin against nature. That presumably would include the officials
> on the WNBA who aren't sure what a woman is.

   Hey, 7th is better than 9th  :-)

   Sorry, but "civilization" requires sources and structure
   and organization. It is fer-sure some will be better at
   one or more of those aspects, the 'vision' thing, the
   "smart org" thing. Sorry, but dismal grey State committees
   ain't gonna come close.

   Russia is basically capitalist now, same with China.
   NK is a hold-out ... but a totally HORRIBLE place
   that only survives because Big Brother China wants it.

   Proven BEST - the relative few 'visionaries'/'organizers'
   get things going. YOU work for THEM. You can BITCH about
   them being awful or 'usurers' but You NEED Them or
   NOTHING of use happens.

   Sorry, NO magical world where everybody lives five-star
   for doing nothing for anyone. That's even beyond Harry
   Potter fantasy. What's WRONG with yer brain here ????

   99% of the time yer a Smart Guy ... but on THIS stuff ....

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#89922 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:13:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Proven BEST - the relative few 'visionaries'/'organizers'
>    get things going. YOU work for THEM. You can BITCH about them being
>    awful or 'usurers' but You NEED Them or NOTHING of use happens.

You mean like Soros? He's a visionary alright. Motherfucker never did an 
honest day's work in his life, unless you consider hedge funds and 
shorting currencies honest work.

On the other side we have Miriam Adelson. She actually worked as a doctor 
but that's not where the $35 billion came from. Sheldon made his nut from 
actual casinos, unlike the billionaire winners in the Wall Street casino. 
How he got some of his licenses has been investigated. His first venture 
in the candy vending machine business probably wasn't too pure. Somehow 
the vending machine business in NYC has always been questionable.

I have nothing against people like Musk or Bezos that built something. I 
don't care for the billionaires that never did anything but manipulate 
markets. Do you call them all capitalists? 

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#89927 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/16/26 02:00, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:13:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Proven BEST - the relative few 'visionaries'/'organizers'
>>     get things going. YOU work for THEM. You can BITCH about them being
>>     awful or 'usurers' but You NEED Them or NOTHING of use happens.
> 
> You mean like Soros? He's a visionary alright. Motherfucker never did an
> honest day's work in his life, unless you consider hedge funds and
> shorting currencies honest work.

   Eh ?

   Soros is a 3rd-level money source - AND
   a communist agent. He should be deported
   to the homeland immediately and all his
   US assets confiscated. NOT sure why Trump
   hasn't just DONE this already. Hey, they
   could TRACE the money-chain collapse to
   find MORE commie agents !

   Soros is NOT a 'visionary', NOT an actual
   organizer/mover/shaker. He and Junior are
   just SHITS.

   Fuck him ... preferably with something
   long and with splinters.

   You're normally a Smart Guy ... can't figure out
   why you can't see through the commiesocialist BIG
   LIE. It's been nothing but DISASTER for a century+

   You, NOBODY, wants to live that lie - just HORRIBLE !

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