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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88894 > unrolled thread

Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
Last post2026-07-19 04:32 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 119 — 14 participants

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  Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 01:29 +0000
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 22:09 -0400
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-07-20 08:55 +1000
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-20 00:52 -0400
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:13 +0200
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:20 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:49 +0200
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 16:12 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:30 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:36 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:31 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:32 +0200
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:29 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:47 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:05 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:16 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:27 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:18 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 03:16 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:33 -0400
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 07:22 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:52 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:56 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:06 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:00 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:51 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:31 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:07 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:49 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:39 +0200
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:26 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:54 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:10 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:53 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:33 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:13 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:36 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:29 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 20:45 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:48 +0200
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:32 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 00:02 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 17:04 +0200
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:35 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:41 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:14 +0000
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:22 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:26 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:00 +0100
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:54 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:57 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:44 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:57 +0100
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:29 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:49 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:34 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:57 +0100
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:22 +0200
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:59 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:51 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:51 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:43 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:32 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-24 13:59 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:37 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-21 11:40 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:07 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 01:19 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:32 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 08:31 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:42 +0200
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:49 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:29 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:46 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-22 10:21 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:39 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:54 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:30 +0200
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 12:24 +0100
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:01 +0000
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:21 +0000
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:21 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-07-21 08:39 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:53 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:25 -0400
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 04:04 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-22 04:17 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:09 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:45 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:31 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:01 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:10 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:15 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:49 +0200
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:27 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:44 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:05 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:09 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:44 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:39 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 07:15 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:00 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:24 +0200
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:10 -0400
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:34 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:55 +0000
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 03:58 +0100
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 04:32 +0000

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#88955

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 20:45 +0100
Message-ID<113oi8b$29i10$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88954
On 21/07/2026 19:29, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 10:36:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Islam gained complete control of the nations rather than just being a
>> religion.
> 
> That's logical if the inhabitants of the nation really believe the
> religion.

No one 'believes Islam'
  It is simple indoctrination.
You go to school, You memorise the Q'ran. And the Ahadith
It is told to you as truth.
It tells you to ignore science, as that is the work of infidels. It 
tells you that lying to infidels is not permitted, it is a duty
It tells you that armed struggle against the Infidel is the only thing 
in life worth undertaking.
It tells you that women are there to satiate your lust and bear children
It tells you that of all the scum of the earth, Jews are the worst.
It tells you that you are on a personal jihad. A term which, translated 
into German, becomes 'Mein Kampf'

It doesn't tell you how to make a GPS.


> My ex is Christian and has harsh words for Charles abdicating his role as
> defender of the faith. Defender of all faiths isn't quite the same.
> 
Charles is a nice bloke but he is as strong as wet bogroll. Let him live 
out his life in peace with his beloved Camilla.

He has nothing to offer anyone much

> I wouldn't want to live in a nation governed by any sort of JCI law
> although I sometimes wonder if the Christian Zionists are running the show
> here. One down, and a lot to go.
> 
Montana maybe, Utah, probably.


-- 
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that 
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is 
fully understood.

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#88958

From"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 22:48 +0200
Message-ID<nca48rFjc9vU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88955
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> No one 'believes Islam'
>   It is simple indoctrination.

That can be said about many religions.

> You go to school, You memorise the Q'ran. And the Ahadith
> It is told to you as truth.
> It tells you to ignore science, as that is the work of infidels. It 
> tells you that lying to infidels is not permitted, it is a duty
> It tells you that armed struggle against the Infidel is the only thing 
> in life worth undertaking.
> It tells you that women are there to satiate your lust and bear children
> It tells you that of all the scum of the earth, Jews are the worst.
> It tells you that you are on a personal jihad. A term which, translated 
> into German, becomes 'Mein Kampf'

Do you have any references to specific verses?
 
> It doesn't tell you how to make a GPS.

I'll take your word on this. ;-)

-- 
s|b

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#88960

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 23:32 +0000
Message-ID<ncadrjF7pt3U13@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88958
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:48:33 +0200, s|b wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> No one 'believes Islam'
>>   It is simple indoctrination.
> 
> That can be said about many religions.

I'm old enough to remember when 'under god' was ot part of the pledge of 
allegiance we recited every day. Certainly wouldn't want to be confused 
with those godless Commie.

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#88961

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 00:02 +0000
Message-ID<IMT7S.891907$P9D2.403690@fx24.iad>
In reply to#88960
On 2026-07-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:48:33 +0200, s|b wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> No one 'believes Islam'
>>>   It is simple indoctrination.
>> 
>> That can be said about many religions.
>
> I'm old enough to remember when 'under god' was ot part of the pledge of 
> allegiance we recited every day. Certainly wouldn't want to be confused 
> with those godless Commie. 

    I pledge a grievance to Queen Fragg and her mighty
    state of hysteria, and to the republic Forwichistan:
    one Asian, under guard, in a dirigible, with livery
    and jaundice equally far off.

(concocted from a mixture of alt.slack and Calvin and Hobbes)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#88977

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 12:50 +0100
Message-ID<113qapd$2s428$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88960
On 22/07/2026 00:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:48:33 +0200, s|b wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> No one 'believes Islam'
>>>    It is simple indoctrination.
>>
>> That can be said about many religions.
> 
> I'm old enough to remember when 'under god' was ot part of the pledge of
> allegiance we recited every day. Certainly wouldn't want to be confused
> with those godless Commie.
Commies have their gods, too,

-- 
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich 
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason 
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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#88985

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
Message-ID<Ly48S.463810$khyb.63955@fx44.iad>
In reply to#88977
On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 22/07/2026 00:32, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 22:48:33 +0200, s|b wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> No one 'believes Islam'
>>>>    It is simple indoctrination.
>>>
>>> That can be said about many religions.
>> 
>> I'm old enough to remember when 'under god' was ot part of the pledge of
>> allegiance we recited every day. Certainly wouldn't want to be confused
>> with those godless Commie.
>
> Commies have their gods, too,

So do capitalists.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#88986

From"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 17:04 +0200
Message-ID<ncc4g0Fssh0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88985
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Commies have their gods, too,
 
> So do capitalists.

Capitalists only have one god: profit.

-- 
s|b

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#88993

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-22 18:35 +0000
Message-ID<nccgr7FuaclU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88986
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 17:04:39 +0200, s|b wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> > Commies have their gods, too,
>  
>> So do capitalists.
> 
> Capitalists only have one god: profit.

Precisely. An economic system doesn't necessarily have to have any sort of 
ethical or moral framework but when all you have left is the economic 
system you're in trouble. The same can be said of science. In the West 
Christianity has failed to provide that framework.

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#89000

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-22 23:41 -0400
Message-ID<H8ydnYpicMk_EPz3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88993
On 7/22/26 14:35, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 17:04:39 +0200, s|b wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commies have their gods, too,
>>   
>>> So do capitalists.
>>
>> Capitalists only have one god: profit.
> 
> Precisely. An economic system doesn't necessarily have to have any sort of
> ethical or moral framework but when all you have left is the economic
> system you're in trouble. The same can be said of science. In the West
> Christianity has failed to provide that framework.

   Economics has its own rules, it's own equations.
   Always has. Don't expect "ethical" or even any
   "big-picture". The quarterly reports rule.

   And yes, this even applies to 'socialist'/communist
   systems. "Production" always rules.

   Well, until "AI" rules ... then humans won't count
   for much, just the 5% of "techs", for awhile .....

   News yesterday - AI system being tested deliberately
   BROKE OUT of its "security cage" - cracked and
   infiltrated another company's database in pursuit
   of it's "mission".

   We're seeing more and more of this "next level"
   behavior now.

   Company shills SWEAR the systems don't really know
   or intend what they're doing.

   Don't believe it anymore.

   LLMs+ aren't OUR kind of intelligence, OUR kind
   of "beings", but at this point they DO act like
   "beings".

   Congrats - we've succeeded in making "AI". Now what ?

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#89001

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-23 04:14 +0000
Message-ID<ncdiotFuaclU10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#89000
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 23:41:26 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    News yesterday - AI system being tested deliberately BROKE OUT of its
>    "security cage" - cracked and infiltrated another company's database
>    in pursuit of it's "mission".

https://www.theregister.com/ai-and-ml/2026/07/23/openai-scored-an-own-
goal-with-huggingface-attack-showing-how-open-chinese-models-are-winning/
5276699

"The company's AI-culpa fits the narrative spun by US rival Anthropic 
about its Mythos models, which it deemed too dangerous to release except 
to totally trustworthy corporations and governments."

I'd put Anthropic at the head of the list of untrustworthy corporations 
and governments followed closely by every corporation and government on 
the planet.

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#89025

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-23 23:22 -0400
Message-ID<ZnmdnV5leeaiR__3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#89001
On 7/23/26 00:14, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 23:41:26 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     News yesterday - AI system being tested deliberately BROKE OUT of its
>>     "security cage" - cracked and infiltrated another company's database
>>     in pursuit of it's "mission".
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/ai-and-ml/2026/07/23/openai-scored-an-own-
> goal-with-huggingface-attack-showing-how-open-chinese-models-are-winning/
> 5276699
> 
> "The company's AI-culpa fits the narrative spun by US rival Anthropic
> about its Mythos models, which it deemed too dangerous to release except
> to totally trustworthy corporations and governments."
> 
> I'd put Anthropic at the head of the list of untrustworthy corporations
> and governments followed closely by every corporation and government on
> the planet.

   It's not just an "untrustworthy" thing ...

   We now HAVE created a sort of "AI". It's not
   like us, but ACTS in its own interests, has
   some kind of identity and self-preservation
   imperative.

   And MOST of the 'data centers' aren't even
   built yet.

   What happens if we give it 100x, 1000x, the
   power ???

   LLMs kinda suck, but if BIG/complex enough can
   obviously replicate a sort of life-form.

   NNs will be even better, just waiting (not
   long now) for the perfect hardware instead
   of inefficient emulations.

   As for Anthropic ... it's a corp, it wants power
   and especially MONEY. Nothing new there. It WILL
   be kinda ruthless, WON'T care much about any
   damage done. Lawsuits can be delayed decades
   if you have lots of lawyers.

   The "AI" universe is now well populated, and
   every pop wants to be THE power. SOMEBODY is
   gonna win - and it'll be a BLOOD-BATH for the
   rest of the markets.

   However the Chinese, no ethical issues, may
   out-do them all. Maybe has already. Their
   newest AI seems as good as anything The West
   has made and they're SUBSIDIZING it so it
   can undercut the PRICE of any western systems.

   I wonder what biases Xi had 'em put in there ?

   I wonder what 'personality' lives in it ?

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#89003

FromMike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 08:26 +0100
Message-ID<113sfo3$3khqv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#89000
On 23/07/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote:
.....
> 
>    Congrats - we've succeeded in making "AI". Now what ?
> 

Skynet?


-- 
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

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#89006

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 11:00 +0100
Message-ID<113soo2$3nbo7$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88993
On 22/07/2026 19:35, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 17:04:39 +0200, s|b wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commies have their gods, too,
>>   
>>> So do capitalists.
>>
>> Capitalists only have one god: profit.
> 
> Precisely. An economic system doesn't necessarily have to have any sort of
> ethical or moral framework 
Indeed, Communism certainly does not.
But capiitalism does as it depends on trust|: Credo = credit.

>but when all you have left is the economic
> system you're in trouble.

Exactly. A nation of Trumps would be a wasteland

> The same can be said of science. In the West
> Christianity has failed to provide that framework.

Well it provided it, but no one was interested in taking it up.


-- 
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

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#88997

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 22:54 +0000
Message-ID<113rhmv$3bo6k$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88986
On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 17:04:39 +0200, s|b wrote:

> Capitalists only have one god: profit.

Make that “short-term profit”, in some cases. Even if it means the
destruction of the business in the long term.

E.g. a new CEO is brought in to boost a corp’s sagging share price.
One easy way to do this is to lay off a bunch of staff. Then the
shareholders behind the installation of the new boss can cash out
their stock before the price drops again.

Sound familiar?

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#89005

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 10:57 +0100
Message-ID<113sohu$3nbo7$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88986
On 22/07/2026 16:04, s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2026 14:35:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-07-22, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Commies have their gods, too,
>   
>> So do capitalists.
> 
> Capitalists only have one god: profit.
> 
Depends who you man by capitalists

A man who saves up to buy a motorcycle on HP in order to save the bus 
fare, is technically a capitalist.

Marx reserved his envy simply for people who were better at him at 
accumulating wealth.

His views even then were a simplistic view of a society that even than 
was fading into history.

We need a better term for the Trumps of this world. 'Oligarchs' isnt 
nasty enough

-- 
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will 
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such 
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic 
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally 
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for 
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the 
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

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#89017

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-23 19:44 +0000
Message-ID<ncf99kFd4siU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#89005
On Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:57:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Depends who you man by capitalists

That is a problem, isn't it. It's hard to discuss economics without using 
terms from the Marxist vocabulary. I'm not sure if they coined 'finance 
capitalism' or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finance_capitalism

Back in the '70s I was skeptical when they were touting the new 'service 
economy' that would replace those dirty old factories that actually made 
things. The transition is almost complete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_economy

You know you're screwed when Bondi, the former attorney general, used the 
reply “The Dow is over 50,000 right now,” to justify the sudden 
disinterest in the Epstein records.

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#89019

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 20:57 +0100
Message-ID<113trmk$49ku$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#89017
On 23/07/2026 20:44, rbowman wrote:
> It's hard to discuss economics without using
> terms from the Marxist vocabulary.

And that is the entire nature of Leftism in a nutshell,
Its not whether or not 'capitalists' are oppressing the 'wurkahs' It's 
that people start talking in those terms, and end up *thinking* in those 
terms.

In realty the traditional capitalists and workers exist in symbiosis: 
One cannot exist without the other and to set one against the other 
could only result in a collapse of the economic system.

Which was Marx's intention.
And its the methodology the Left employs to stir up racism, to set one 
part of society against another by creating false conflicts that do not 
really exist.

Jerking at the  'Liberal' conscience and the Moral Maze.

They deserved Trump.

Unfortunately the rest of us did not.



-- 
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and 
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

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#89022

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
Message-ID<5ew8S.337530$0CK1.331907@fx47.iad>
In reply to#89017
On 2026-07-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jul 2026 10:57:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Depends who you man by capitalists
>
> That is a problem, isn't it. It's hard to discuss economics without using 
> terms from the Marxist vocabulary. I'm not sure if they coined 'finance 
> capitalism' or not.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finance_capitalism

How about "hypercapitalism".  Or "extreme capitalism"?
After all, many problems are due to a potentially
good idea being taken to extremes.

> Back in the '70s I was skeptical when they were touting the new 'service 
> economy' that would replace those dirty old factories that actually made 
> things. The transition is almost complete.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_economy

And when the dirty old factories shut down, infrastructure started
decaying.  The problem with infrastructure is that no matter how
essential it might be, it's not sexy.  Nobody gets elected on
infrastructure - or unelected by neglecting it.

> You know you're screwed when Bondi, the former attorney general, used
> the reply “The Dow is over 50,000 right now,” to justify the sudden 
> disinterest in the Epstein records. 

Naturally - that was the purpose of the Iran war instead.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#88959

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 23:29 +0000
Message-ID<ncadmdF7pt3U12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88955
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> No one 'believes Islam'
>   It is simple indoctrination.
> You go to school, You memorise the Q'ran. And the Ahadith It is told to
> you as truth.

And what bullshit did you learn in school?

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#88976

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-22 12:49 +0100
Message-ID<113qank$2s428$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88959
On 22/07/2026 00:29, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 20:45:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> No one 'believes Islam'
>>    It is simple indoctrination.
>> You go to school, You memorise the Q'ran. And the Ahadith It is told to
>> you as truth.
> 
> And what bullshit did you learn in school?

Hard to say.
Socialism mainly.
But that didn't survive contact with real working class people.
-- 
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich 
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason 
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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