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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88894 > unrolled thread

Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
Last post2026-07-19 04:32 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 129 — 14 participants

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  Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 01:29 +0000
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-18 22:09 -0400
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-07-20 08:55 +1000
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-20 00:52 -0400
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:13 +0200
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 14:20 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 17:49 +0200
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 16:12 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:30 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:36 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:31 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:32 +0200
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 19:29 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:47 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:05 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:16 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:27 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:18 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 03:16 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:33 -0400
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 07:22 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:52 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:56 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:06 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:00 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:51 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:31 +0000
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:07 +0100
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:49 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:39 +0200
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:26 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:54 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:10 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 21:53 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:33 +0100
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:13 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:36 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:29 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 20:45 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:48 +0200
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:32 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 00:02 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 17:04 +0200
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:35 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:41 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:14 +0000
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:22 -0400
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-23 08:26 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:00 +0100
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:54 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:57 +0100
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:44 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:57 +0100
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 23:29 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:49 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 23:34 -0400
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 12:57 +0100
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:22 +0200
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:59 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:51 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 10:51 +0100
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:43 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:32 +0000
                                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-24 13:59 +0200
                                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:09 -0400
                                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-25 05:02 +0000
                                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-25 12:48 +0200
                                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 20:37 +0100
                                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-25 15:55 +0200
                                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 14:58 +0100
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-21 11:40 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:07 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 01:19 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:32 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-22 08:31 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:42 +0200
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 14:35 +0000
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:49 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 18:29 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-22 22:46 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-22 10:21 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-22 13:39 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:54 +0000
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-21 22:30 +0200
        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 12:24 +0100
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 18:01 +0000
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-20 20:21 +0000
              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:21 +0000
                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 04:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 07:22 +0000
                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-07-21 08:39 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:53 +0000
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 21:25 -0400
                      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 04:04 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-22 04:17 +0000
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:09 -0400
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 04:45 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:31 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:01 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 22:05 -0400
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:44 +0100
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:10 +0100
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-23 19:15 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-23 18:49 +0200
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:27 +0200
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-22 17:44 +0000
                        Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-22 23:05 -0400
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-23 11:09 +0100
                          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-23 22:04 +0000
                            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 01:44 +0000
                              Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-23 23:39 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-24 07:15 +0000
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:32 -0400
                                Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-24 11:00 +0100
                                  Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-24 21:43 -0400
                                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-25 13:42 +0100
                    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-07-22 16:24 +0200
          Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-21 00:10 -0400
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 10:34 +0100
            Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-21 12:55 +0000
    Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 03:58 +0100
      Re: Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 04:32 +0000

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#88894 — Interesting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-18 19:38 -0400
SubjectInteresting - Ukraine Missiles Use Open Source, Russians Use Pi-4s
Message-ID<2dadnRI_-Lkck8H3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2580002-why-a-ukrainian-cruise-missile-is-flying-with-hobby-drone-hardware/

Ukraine :

Ukraine has developed a cheap cruise missile guided by an
open-source autopilot system typically found in consumer
drones. The use of hobby components highlights the shrinking
gap between military and consumer electronics, which may make
it easier for small countries and non-state actors to develop
powerful high-tech weapons.

One secret of Flamingo’s low cost is its Ardupilot flight
controller, which uses sensor data to keep the missile
flying stably along its assigned path.

Russia :

Waves of Shaheds hit Ukraine every night, and while earlier
versions navigated by satellite, a new “Seeker” version has
a camera and Raspberry Pi 4 processor with AI software to
lock on to targets

. . .

   Bargain sub-basement - but apparently VERY effective.

   Ukraine blasted a gigantic Amazon-scale warehouse
   and oil facility in Moscow last night.

   The new Russian Shaheds, using optical pattern
   recognition, can avoid GPS jamming by Ukraine.

   Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million
   dollars per unit and take forever to build.

   Sorry folks, but 'the west' has fallen WAY behind
   the proverbial curve in 21st-century warfare.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#88896

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-19 01:29 +0000
Message-ID<nc2nkiFbb5kU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88894
On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>    and take forever to build.

I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates 
vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you 
use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken 
feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk. 

Trump may not care about the price of gas and food but the rest of the 
country does. I'm waiting for the Houthis to start raising hell in the Red 
Sea. That will put the icing on the cake.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88898

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-18 22:09 -0400
Message-ID<2dadnQ4_-LlWrMH3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88896
On 7/18/26 21:29, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>>     and take forever to build.
> 
> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates
> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you
> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken
> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk.

   There's some truth in that. However it depends on
   whether you view the Iran problem as Just A Problem
   or an EXISTENTIAL problem. If the latter, which has
   been increasingly valid the past five years, then
   the money DOESN'T MATTER - ya just GOTTA.

   As for the money-grubbing MIC ... I think everybody
   is ON to them now. Good war machines CAN be made
   quick and cheap ... this is gonna define a lot of
   the 21st century.

   Sometimes attributed to Stalin, the phrase "Quantity
   has a quality all of its own". 21st century power is
   gonna be defined by the "nest of hornets" paradigm,
   not the last-century model of giant ships and bombers
   which are now nice big slow TARGETS.

   Yea yea ... the mil LOVES giant ships full of saluting
   sailors, field of Top Guns in hyper-expensive planes.
   But that can't be how it is anymore.

   Trump and others kinda get this now ... but changing
   the MIC is gonna be *difficult* - too many tentacles
   into everything.

   A relatively small drone/cruise running on (hopefully
   hardened) open-source guidance/targeting software and
   dirt-cheap chips ARE smacking the shit out of mighty
   Russia right now. It has no good defense. Neither would
   the USA/'west'. The Chinese are putting decent 'AI'
   into their cheap-ish weapons. Again the 'west' can't
   match that.

> Trump may not care about the price of gas and food but the rest of the
> country does. I'm waiting for the Houthis to start raising hell in the Red
> Sea. That will put the icing on the cake.

   Go suck yer Ayatollah ... he's calling .......

   Waiting for a nuke to go off anywhere near
   Israel ... they'll solve the Iran problem ...

   And as for the price of gasoline - was STILL more
   expensive with Joe and his 'socialist' barbershop
   quartet.

   Gas prices in Europe ... well ... should have HELPED
   with Iran folks instead of pissing yourselves and
   hiding under the table ....... "Let's just PAY OFF
   the fanatic terrorists and EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE !".

   As I recall Jews tried that tact in 1930s Europe ...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88909

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-07-20 08:55 +1000
Message-ID<6a5d55d9@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#88896
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>    Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>>    and take forever to build.
> 
> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates 
> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you 
> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken 
> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk. 

The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now for that
reason, but I'm just waiting for drones/missiles to arrive sporting
mirrors designed to reflect those beams back and set fire to things
on the ground instead.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#88914

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-20 00:52 -0400
Message-ID<y7GcndNUnPkCNMD3nZ2dnZfqnPoAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to#88909
On 7/19/26 18:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>>>     and take forever to build.
>>
>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates
>> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you
>> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's chicken
>> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk.
> 
> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now for that
> reason, but I'm just waiting for drones/missiles to arrive sporting
> mirrors designed to reflect those beams back and set fire to things
> on the ground instead.

   Um ... that would NOT be so difficult/expensive
   to do :-)

   Even a sub-micron of gold on the missile body
   would reflect most laser attacks. Putting a
   'lens' pattern, retroflectors, in that would
   kinda help do what you said.

   Alas, "phasors", particle-beam weapons, have
   proven impractical - at least within an
   atmosphere.

   This leaves lasers and, to an extent, masers.

   But over-heating a big missile in flight with
   a laser ... NOT as easy as it sounds. Lasers
   may be better for blasting little DRONES. This
   WILL be useful, but not the WHOLE modern picture.

   Governments, esp the USA, still have this fixation
   on giant warships/bombers and such. Lots of troops
   to salute the high officers, very impressive. Alas
   these are now huge slow TARGETS. Massive money for
   something that will be blown up almost instantly.

   The MODERN paradigm - pioneered by Ukraine - is
   the "nest of hornets" picture.

   Sometimes attributed to Stalin - "Quantity has
   a quality all of its own". Ukraine has proven
   that. Dirt-cheap drones, but LOTS of them, get
   through 20th-century defenses very well.

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#88920

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 14:13 +0200
Message-ID<nc6hn7F167tU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88914
On 2026-07-20 06:52, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/19/26 18:55, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 19:38:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>>>     Meanwhile, everything made in USA costs a million dollars per unit
>>>>     and take forever to build.
>>>
>>> I forget who said 'Generals do not end wars; accountants do.'  Estimates
>>> vary but the Tamir missile used by Iron Dome costs around $50K. When you
>>> use them to blow up a $5K DJI drone the costs add up fast. That's 
>>> chicken
>>> feed compared to the cost of a Tomahawk.
>>
>> The USA and Israel are getting deep into laser weapons now for that
>> reason, but I'm just waiting for drones/missiles to arrive sporting
>> mirrors designed to reflect those beams back and set fire to things
>> on the ground instead.
> 
>    Um ... that would NOT be so difficult/expensive
>    to do :-)
> 
>    Even a sub-micron of gold on the missile body
>    would reflect most laser attacks. Putting a
>    'lens' pattern, retroflectors, in that would
>    kinda help do what you said.
> 
>    Alas, "phasors", particle-beam weapons, have
>    proven impractical - at least within an
>    atmosphere.
> 
>    This leaves lasers and, to an extent, masers.
> 
>    But over-heating a big missile in flight with
>    a laser ... NOT as easy as it sounds. Lasers
>    may be better for blasting little DRONES. This
>    WILL be useful, but not the WHOLE modern picture.
> 
>    Governments, esp the USA, still have this fixation
>    on giant warships/bombers and such. Lots of troops
>    to salute the high officers, very impressive. Alas
>    these are now huge slow TARGETS. Massive money for
>    something that will be blown up almost instantly.

Iran has not yet blown an air carrier over there.

> 
>    The MODERN paradigm - pioneered by Ukraine - is
>    the "nest of hornets" picture.
> 
>    Sometimes attributed to Stalin - "Quantity has
>    a quality all of its own". Ukraine has proven
>    that. Dirt-cheap drones, but LOTS of them, get
>    through 20th-century defenses very well.
> 


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88921

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 14:20 +0100
Message-ID<113l7ap$16tm6$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88920
On 20/07/2026 13:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Iran has not yet blown an air carrier over there.
> 
>>
>>    The MODERN paradigm - pioneered by Ukraine - is
>>    the "nest of hornets" picture.

There is no one solution, and an F35 certainly isn't it.

Low speed drone swarms are best countered by medium speed drone swarms

Ballistic missiles probably need a patriot system or lasers.

Gliding bombs are a pain. Probably a drone system or proximity cannon shells


-- 
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone 
gets full Marx.

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#88922

From"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 17:49 +0200
Message-ID<nc6ubeF3b9oU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88920
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:13:27 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Iran has not yet blown an air carrier over there.

Not yet. Maybe because they fear that Drumpf will use nukes to
retaliate. To stroke his ego, he would use at least 3, because that's
one more than they used in WWII.

I think Iran could have easily hit one or more ships in that fleet. Look
at what Ukraine is doing with the Russian shadow fleet and their oil
tankers.

-- 
s|b

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#88923

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 16:12 +0000
Message-ID<113lhdo$1aeq8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88922
s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 14:13:27 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> Iran has not yet blown an air carrier over there.
> 
> Not yet. Maybe because they fear that Drumpf will use nukes to
> retaliate. To stroke his ego, he would use at least 3, because that's
> one more than they used in WWII.

I've seen press reports (I have no idea of their actual accuracy) that 
indicate that the US Navy is keeping the carriers far away from the 
believed reach of Iran's drones, just so they can't get hit (well, 
hopefully)

> I think Iran could have easily hit one or more ships in that fleet.  
> Look at what Ukraine is doing with the Russian shadow fleet and their 
> oil tankers.

If they (the carriers) were positioned close enough to strike I would 
have expected some attempts to do so already.

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#88925

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-20 18:30 +0000
Message-ID<nc77psF4pmvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88923
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:12:40 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> I've seen press reports (I have no idea of their actual accuracy) that
> indicate that the US Navy is keeping the carriers far away from the
> believed reach of Iran's drones, just so they can't get hit (well,
> hopefully)

Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if 
you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have 
the capability but China and Russia certainly do.

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#88926

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 19:36 +0100
Message-ID<113lprb$1ddvv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88925
On 20/07/2026 19:30, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:12:40 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> I've seen press reports (I have no idea of their actual accuracy) that
>> indicate that the US Navy is keeping the carriers far away from the
>> believed reach of Iran's drones, just so they can't get hit (well,
>> hopefully)
> 
> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if
> you have to park them 1000 miles away.

Well they will have to do. No one wants US aircraft on their nations 
land anymore


-- 
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out 
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

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#88935

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 01:31 +0000
Message-ID<nc80f5F7pt3U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88926
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:36:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 20/07/2026 19:30, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:12:40 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>> 
>>> I've seen press reports (I have no idea of their actual accuracy) that
>>> indicate that the US Navy is keeping the carriers far away from the
>>> believed reach of Iran's drones, just so they can't get hit (well,
>>> hopefully)
>> 
>> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal
>> if you have to park them 1000 miles away.
> 
> Well they will have to do. No one wants US aircraft on their nations
> land anymore

Is your new boy going to kick the USAF out? Assuming he lasts longer than 
a mayfly At least you don't have things falling out of the sky like 
Jordan, Qatar, and the UAE.

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#88957

From"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 22:32 +0200
Message-ID<nca3ahFj7idU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88935
On 21 Jul 2026 01:31:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Is your new boy going to kick the USAF out? Assuming he lasts longer than 
> a mayfly At least you don't have things falling out of the sky like 
> Jordan, Qatar, and the UAE. 

If I'm not mistaken they all have American bases? Well, maybe /had/,
because I read they have been abandoned for the most part.

-- 
s|b

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#88928

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-07-20 19:29 +0000
Message-ID<113lsu5$1e8tv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88925
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 16:12:40 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> I've seen press reports (I have no idea of their actual accuracy) that
>> indicate that the US Navy is keeping the carriers far away from the
>> believed reach of Iran's drones, just so they can't get hit (well,
>> hopefully)
> 
> Aircraft carriers are 20th century technology. They lose their appeal if 
> you have to park them 1000 miles away. I don't know if the Iranians have 
> the capability but China and Russia certainly do. 

Yes indeed.  Just as "aircraft" made the "battleship" obselete, what we 
are seeing is the fact that "drone swarms" and/or "cheap drones" are 
making the "aircraft carrier" ship obselete as well.

Yes, less useful if parked 1000mi away, although the planes on board 
may still have enough range to be somewhat useful at that distance.  
But the longer the travel from launch to engagement, the less fuel 
remaining for that "engagement" which does whittle down the "air power" 
angle quite a lot.

Although this page: 
https://www.flyajetfighter.com/the-real-range-of-modern-fighter-planes/ 
looks to indicate that 1000mi (1600km) starts to put a number of 
warplanes at a point where they have limited engagement possibilites 
unless they start out carrying extra tanks, which mean less ordinance, 
before they would have to return to refuel, or return to an air tanker 
to refuel -- but then the air tanker must be kept beyond harms way, 
because it makes an especially juicy target as taking it out reduces a 
lot of the attack capability of the war planes.

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#88936

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 01:47 +0000
Message-ID<nc81ecF7pt3U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88928
On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:29:09 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> https://www.flyajetfighter.com/the-real-range-of-modern-fighter-planes/
> looks to indicate that 1000mi (1600km) starts to put a number of
> warplanes at a point where they have limited engagement possibilites
> unless they start out carrying extra tanks, which mean less ordinance,
> before they would have to return to refuel, or return to an air tanker
> to refuel -- but then the air tanker must be kept beyond harms way,
> because it makes an especially juicy target as taking it out reduces a
> lot of the attack capability of the war planes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_2026_Iran_war

I don't know to what extent they were specifically targets but KC-135s are 
the second most popular things to destroy after Reapers. Reportedly 2 were 
an own goal.

I take the list cum grano salis. I blame my cynicism on early influences. 
I was quite young when my grandmother listened to the radio while doing 
housework but I can recall the breathless reporting of how many MiGs had 
been shot down that day in MiG Alley. I wasn't entirely sure what a 'mig' 
was but I think the US shot down more MiG-15s than were ever made at the 
time. The NK bag for the day wasn't mentioned.

I was more aware when the reports said we were winning bigly in Vietnam 
until we weren't.  I've lost count of how many times we've put Iran in its 
place.

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#88938

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-07-21 04:05 +0000
Message-ID<113mr5n$1mo7o$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88936
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:29:09 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> https://www.flyajetfighter.com/the-real-range-of-modern-fighter-planes/
>> looks to indicate that 1000mi (1600km) starts to put a number of
>> warplanes at a point where they have limited engagement possibilites
>> unless they start out carrying extra tanks, which mean less ordinance,
>> before they would have to return to refuel, or return to an air tanker
>> to refuel -- but then the air tanker must be kept beyond harms way,
>> because it makes an especially juicy target as taking it out reduces a
>> lot of the attack capability of the war planes.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_2026_Iran_war
> 
> I don't know to what extent they were specifically targets but KC-135s are 
> the second most popular things to destroy after Reapers. Reportedly 2 were 
> an own goal.

As Ukraine is showing with their attacks on Russian energy targets (and 
as good, competent, military planners were already fully aware) wars 
are very often won or lost via the supply line infrastructure.  
KC-135's would be prime targets because taking each out disrupts the 
ability of a great many other planes to function (from a the plane has 
fuel standpoint) at great distances from their "home base" (be that on 
land or on a carrier at sea).

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#88942

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-21 00:16 -0400
Message-ID<_qCcnRcGIcU0b8P3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88938
On 7/21/26 00:05, Rich wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2026 19:29:09 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.flyajetfighter.com/the-real-range-of-modern-fighter-planes/
>>> looks to indicate that 1000mi (1600km) starts to put a number of
>>> warplanes at a point where they have limited engagement possibilites
>>> unless they start out carrying extra tanks, which mean less ordinance,
>>> before they would have to return to refuel, or return to an air tanker
>>> to refuel -- but then the air tanker must be kept beyond harms way,
>>> because it makes an especially juicy target as taking it out reduces a
>>> lot of the attack capability of the war planes.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_2026_Iran_war
>>
>> I don't know to what extent they were specifically targets but KC-135s are
>> the second most popular things to destroy after Reapers. Reportedly 2 were
>> an own goal.
> 
> As Ukraine is showing with their attacks on Russian energy targets (and
> as good, competent, military planners were already fully aware) wars
> are very often won or lost via the supply line infrastructure.
> KC-135's would be prime targets because taking each out disrupts the
> ability of a great many other planes to function (from a the plane has
> fuel standpoint) at great distances from their "home base" (be that on
> land or on a carrier at sea).

   "Supply lines"/logistics ARE very important - and
   often difficult to protect.

   Russia is now Very Hurt by the Ukrainian tactics.
   Seems they can't really protect against the drones,
   and the drones are ruining their petrochemical
   and supply lines. It's getting bad - even outright
   protests against Vlad.

   Vlad is strong - but he MAY get a shiv in the back
   pretty soon for RUINING RUSSIA.

   In short, he will "accidentally" fall off a balcony.

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#88945

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-21 07:27 +0000
Message-ID<nc8lbjF7pt3U8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88942
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 00:16:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Vlad is strong - but he MAY get a shiv in the back pretty soon for
>    RUINING RUSSIA.
> 
>    In short, he will "accidentally" fall off a balcony.

I'd put my money on Zelensky being the one to replicate Diem's 3 AM phone 
call.  'Sorry Diem but you couldn't seal the deal. Best of luck to ya.'

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#88962

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-07-21 21:18 -0400
Message-ID<hNudnX2k-YtPh_33nZ2dnZfqn_YAAAAA@giganews.com>
In reply to#88945
On 7/21/26 03:27, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 00:16:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Vlad is strong - but he MAY get a shiv in the back pretty soon for
>>     RUINING RUSSIA.
>>
>>     In short, he will "accidentally" fall off a balcony.
> 
> I'd put my money on Zelensky being the one to replicate Diem's 3 AM phone
> call.  'Sorry Diem but you couldn't seal the deal. Best of luck to ya.'

   Zel really stepped-up from being a TV comic.
   He will get his big bronze statue.

   Alas there have been some bizarre politics at
   the top of his govt just the past week or two
   that may do more harm than good.

   In any case, the Ukrainian strategy is WORKING.
   They've found Russia's weak points and are really
   blasting the shit out of them now. It's HURTING.

   1000 dead soldiers per day, Vlad doesn't give a
   shit, but petro facilities and big supply-line
   shit, THAT is a problem.

   Russia DOES fire lots of weapons into Ukraine, but
   for the most part they don't do "too much" damage.

   Both sides (and the USA too) seem to have BIG
   problems detecting and intercepting drones and
   missiles. Many of us THOUGHT that should be easy
   by now, but it isn't. Only the "Irondome" system
   seems to provide good defense at a good price but
   Israel really doesn't wanna sell it to anybody
   for obvious reasons.

   You would THINK the USA/EU and even Russia should
   have the tech to emulate Irondome - but we're NOT
   seeing it.

   The Israeli system added some mobile laser weapons
   of late, and reportedly they DO work on existing
   Iranian drones and MAYbe missiles. Not sure about
   the price or the long-term reliability of the lasers
   though, they are too new to tell. Also, just chrome-
   plating the rockets would make them much less
   vulnerable to lasers. Micro-"jittery" flight would
   also help, prevent lasers from superheating one
   small spot.

   "Particle beams" ... tried and just SUCK for
   many reasons. Might be OK in space, but not in
   an atmosphere.

   Cheapo "flying shotgun" rockets with good guidance
   systems are probably the best/cheapest way to deal
   with subsonic drones. Those CAN be made. However
   dealing with missiles, much faster, is gonna remain
   rather difficult. No perfect solutions.

   Where's "Iron Man" when he's needed ?  :-)

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#88966

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-07-22 03:16 +0000
Message-ID<ncar1aF7pt3U15@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88962
On Tue, 21 Jul 2026 21:18:56 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Zel really stepped-up from being a TV comic.
>    He will get his big bronze statue.

That would be ironic. A life size statue would be about 5' 5".

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