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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #88109 > unrolled thread

Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon

Started byvintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole)
First post2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
Last post2026-06-28 00:13 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 121 — 20 participants

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Contents

  Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-20 12:30 +0200
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-20 13:10 +0100
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 14:42 +0100
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-21 07:51 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-21 09:35 +0200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 10:29 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:10 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-22 10:16 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-22 08:13 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 10:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 14:03 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:25 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:51 +0000
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 04:22 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:07 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:47 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-23 10:49 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:30 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-24 12:07 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:41 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 19:42 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 13:25 -0700
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:39 +0000
                            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-30 04:10 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:53 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-25 01:30 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:29 -0700
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:36 +0100
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 17:33 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:13 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:26 +0200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:21 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:55 +0200
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:41 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-24 21:38 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:12 +0000
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-21 14:21 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:28 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 18:56 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:38 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 23:36 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:15 +0000
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:24 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-24 17:35 +1200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-24 07:45 +0200
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:36 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 09:35 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:17 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:24 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:59 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:50 +0000
                Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 07:12 +0100
                  Re: Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:27 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:50 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 19:41 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:37 +0200
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 18:19 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
              """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
                Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
                  Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
                      Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
                        Re: """Standard""" software Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
                          Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 08:02 +0100
                            Re: """Standard""" software "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-28 12:51 +0200
                              Re: """Standard""" software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-29 01:53 -0400
                                Re: """Standard""" software "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-29 10:53 +0200
                                  Re: """Standard""" software Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202606.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-06-29 19:01 +0200
                                    Re: """Standard""" software "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-29 19:29 +0200
                                  Re: “Standard” software Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:48 +0000
                                    Re: “Standard” software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-30 09:08 +0100
                                      Re: “Standard” software Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 18:51 +0000
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
                        Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
                          Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                            Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:42 +0000
                            Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-28 10:46 +1200
                              Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-06-28 10:18 +0000
                                Re: """Standard""" software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 11:26 +0100
                                Spreadshi^Heet software (was: Re: """Standard""" software) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:35 +0100
                                  Re: Spreadshi^Heet software (was: Re: """Standard""" software) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-29 19:51 +1200
                                  Re: Spreadshi^Heet software Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 09:28 +0100
                                    Re: Spreadshi^Heet software Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-29 10:53 +0200
                                    Re: Spreadshi^Heet software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 12:53 +0100
                              Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-28 18:09 +0000
                                Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-29 10:15 +1200
                                Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:24 +0100
                            Re: “Standard” software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:03 +0000
                              Re: “Standard” software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-28 04:13 -0400
                                Re: “Standard” software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 11:04 +0100
                                  Re: “Standard” software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-29 01:42 -0400
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:10 +0000
                        Can be trusted... (Was: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and) Linux Mint Cinnamon) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-06-27 12:53 +0000
                        Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                          Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:36 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:44 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:01 -0700
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-06-25 23:40 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:09 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 15:52 +1200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 04:12 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 09:41 +0100
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:57 +0000
                            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-28 10:35 +1200
                              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 00:13 +0100

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#88401

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 18:19 +0100
Message-ID<wwvcxxe5yie.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#88395
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> On 2026-06-25 08:27, Your Name wrote:
>> Those are two separate statements with no connection.  :-\
>> Besides which, those companies do sell software for MacOS, which
>> technically / legally is Unix.
>
> Unix with a big layer on top that is not Unix.
>
> Is the graphic layer Unix?

What would make a GUI API be ‘Unix’? I think all the popular GUI APIs
are cross-platform, at least to an extent.

> Do those companies that sell software for macOS expect that particular
> graphical layer, or do they run directly on the Unix beneath?

Generally both. User interaction via the GUI, network and file IO etc
via the Unix syscall API (mediated via application frameworks, language
runtimes, etc). It’s not conceptually different to GUI applications on
Linux and Windows.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#88420

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
Message-ID<111lf5b$c7hh$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88395
On 2026-06-25, Carlos E. R. wrote:

[...]

> Unix with a big layer on top that is not Unix.
>
> Is the graphic layer Unix? Do those companies that sell software for
> macOS expect that particular graphical layer, or do they run directly
> on the Unix beneath?

[ Ariana Richards / Lex enters the room ]

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#88384 — """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
Subject"""Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111ifsc$3hha9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88366
On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>
>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>> cannot.  
>>>
>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>
>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well
>> available for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute
>> little mascot.
>>
>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>
> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux
> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no
> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be
> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite
> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating
> system: MacOS X.

And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"? The utilities
available in UNIX MacOS under GNU/Linux and on BSDs are more "standard
software"[1] than whatever commercial closed-source product Microsoft
comes up with. As for Adobe, if anything they have Postscript and PDF,
but I don't think they've managed to make usable PDF software for UNIX
systems (a heavy acroread certainly won't count as such), and Postscript
has had at least Ghostscript for ages. And, if they did manage to make
something usable, it'd probably be closed-source and with a bunch of
features locked without a paid license.

Were it still in wider use, Shockwave Flash, which they acquired at some
point, could perhaps be better supported by improving Gnash and
Lightspark, as Adobe's own software for it wasn't - IIRC - known for its
quality and performance. Or was the quality part more rumour than
reality?


[1] cf. ISO 9945:2009 / IEEE 1003.1:2008 Vol 1 §3.361, and the whole of
    Vol 3.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#88389 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111ii4p$3ik55$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88384
On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
> On 2026-06-24, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2026-06-24 10:36:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:
>>> On 24/06/2026 06:45, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>>>> cannot.
>>>> 
>>>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
>>> 
>>> Exactly,. we have and operating system that works pretty well available 
>>> for free across many hardware platforms. With a cute little mascot.
>>> 
>>> Let's call it the Penguin Operating System (POS) and have done with it :-)
>> 
>> "PoS" is definitely he correct term for the numerous different Linux 
>> varities. None of the standard software runs on it for a start - no 
>> Adobe, no Microsoft, etc., so if you need to use any of those to be 
>> fully compatible ("alternatives" are never fully compatible, despite 
>> what they like to claim), then you need to use a proper operating 
>> system: MacOS X.
> 
> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
<snip>

Most of the business world did years ago ... believe me, I wish it wasn't so!


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#88411 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111km9n$760s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88389
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>
>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
> <snip>
>
> Most of the business world did years ago ...

Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
Linux?

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#88414 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111l5s4$atk9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88411
On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>> 
>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>> <snip>
>> 
>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
> 
> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
> Linux?

I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than 
sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\

Another idiot added to the killfile.

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#88416 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<111ldon$c7hh$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88414
On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>
>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>
>> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by
>> Linux?
>
> I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather
> than sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\
>
> Another idiot added to the killfile.

I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not
even a de facto standard the way you stated it, the business world is
not synonymous with reality, and it may also have parts which blur the
distinction between reality and beliefs (where corporate decisionmakers
put money in what they think reality is, out of some belief).

Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of
guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't
destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and
In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a quoting
level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate world think
differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried to push hard
their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, possibly
arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in an
office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a standard,
even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this is about
top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling references, so I'll
go with "disease") spreads because of them.

Heck, the tech world even has a solution to make plain text e-mails
reflowable.

The business world also includes companies who know better than using
Microsoft products and services (again, I'd use another wording, but
Microsoft has actively done so much damage...)


What follows is in case somebody thinks I'm exaggerating about
Microsoft, and regards the above as, I don't know, "fanboyism"...; Also,
in case somebody needs to be aware of these things:

Bill Gates wants to introduce hardware incompatibilities using ACPI:
<http://web.archive.org/web/1if_/http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf>

Microsoft's FUD:
<https://enwp.org/Halloween_papers#List_of_documents>

So you want to do e-mail with Microsoft? If your server doesn't send a
lot of e-mail, it might get blocked (yes, you read that right, you may
have to spam more, not less).

<news://news.gmane.io/YyGtAsSxjpA0Ky4+@lazarescu.org>
<http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487>

Some messages will be sent to Quarantine, which users may have not heard
about. And I'm not even sure SmartScreen won't possibly just drop
messages completely without sending to Quarantine.

<http://web.archive.org/web/20210225102644/https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922&p=4870487>
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/357214/emails-to-microsoft-365-customers-are-silently-dro>
<https://www.nerd-quickies.net/2020/10/20/microsoft-silently-dropping-emails-a-sad-but-true-story/>

-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88441 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<111n0a0$sr2s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88416
On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
> On 2026-06-26, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2026-06-26 01:57:11 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>> <snip>
>>>> 
>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>> 
>>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its operations 
>>> into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated by Linux?
>> 
>> I think you need to get out into the real world more often, rather than 
>> sitting in your own deluisonal little room by yourself.  :-\
>> 
>> Another idiot added to the killfile.
> 
> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's not 
> even a de facto standard the way you stated it,

The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about 
60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are* 
basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly 
beginning to change.

* That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 11,
  so doesn't include all those still using older versions.

* A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for Microsloth
  Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
  offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google currently has
  the most users.



> the business world is not synonymous with reality, and it may also have 
> parts which blur the distinction between reality and beliefs (where 
> corporate decisionmakers put money in what they think reality is, out 
> of some belief).
> 
> Just for one example: the tech world pretty much has as a sort of 
> guideline, if not "standard", that you don't top-post and you don't 
> destroy threading (by properly maintaining and extending References and 
> In-Reply-To), and that you clearly denote quoted material with a 
> quoting level indicator on the left side. But some on the corporate 
> world think differently, and at least one company (MICROS~1) has tried 
> to push hard their own incompatible and problematic approach to e-mail, 
> possibly arising out of some metaphor with paper documents flowing in 
> an office. That Microsoft chose to go with that doesn't make it a 
> standard, even though the disease (I'd avoid this wording, except this 
> is about top-posting and lack of quoting levels and mangling 
> references, so I'll go with "disease") spreads because of them.

Microsoloth always tries to push their own stupid ideas as the tech 
standard. Some "succeed" simply due to the scale of their user base, 
others fail miserbaly.

Probably the best known example was Microsloth Exploiter that pushed 
its own way of doing things to the point that website makers had to use 
a variety of techniques try to accomodate two different options, 
depending on which browser you were using. Those that simply went with 
Exploiter's way caused compatibility issues for people using other web 
browsers. This was usually most evident with government websites where 
they never bothered to test things on any other browser or OS.

In fact, one charity company I worked for had to file monthly reports 
to their main funder via a website system. They used Apple computers 
and none of the web browsers would work properly with the website 
report system (including Mac Exploiter). The only option was for them 
to get a Windoze PC with Exploiter solely to do the monthly reports.

Such issues do still come up from time to time, especially with 
government websites, but mainly if you're still using older versions of 
web broswers.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88478 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-28 08:02 +0100
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<111qgti$3eh9f$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88441
On 2026-06-27, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
[...]
>> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's
>> not even a de facto standard the way you stated it,
>
> The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about
> 60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are*
> basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly
> beginning to change.
>
> * That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 11,
>  so doesn't include all those still using older versions.
>
> * A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for Microsloth
>  Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
>  offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google currently has
>  the most users.

And Google Docs isn't exactly that good. I kept hitting "why doesn't it
have $BASIC_FEATURE_OOo_HAD_FOR_YEARS_BEFORE?", and the version control
being automatic is a bit too useless. For people who don't want to
bother with it? Maybe it's ok. But if I'm aware of it, I may want to
group the changes under a descriptive label, and make separate labels
for separate sets of changes.

You know what's funny? Even if it misses one feature or another, it has
Wordart. (Or at least had last I checked.)

Overall, besides WYSIWYG not being my thing, (La)TeX is just much easier
to version-control. And can be written using a text editor running on a
video terminal.

But hey, at least Google Docs isn't Microsoft Office, and at least some
of the links to the document have a somewhat parsable form that can be
used to create the download/export URL. (So if your browser does not run
Google Docs, or the computer is not powerful enough, you can instead
download a PDF, if all you need is to read the document, or I guess
download a format for editing - although that's not something I've done
with that, I think it's possible too.)

> Probably the best known example was Microsloth Exploiter that pushed
> its own way of doing things to the point that website makers had to
> use a variety of techniques try to accomodate two different options,
> depending on which browser you were using. Those that simply went with
> Exploiter's way caused compatibility issues for people using other web
> browsers. This was usually most evident with government websites where
> they never bothered to test things on any other browser or OS.
>
> In fact, one charity company I worked for had to file monthly reports
> to their main funder via a website system. They used Apple computers
> and none of the web browsers would work properly with the website
> report system (including Mac Exploiter). The only option was for them
> to get a Windoze PC with Exploiter solely to do the monthly reports.
>
> Such issues do still come up from time to time, especially with
> government websites, but mainly if you're still using older versions
> of web broswers.

No, these days is "if you're using any but a few select browsers", not
"older versions". Be it because of JS or CSS features, be it because
they use some service like Cloudflare that should have no place in
government websites.

(I do wonder if Cloudflare has been intentionally trying to bring along
the better reputation of Browser Integrity Check (which, other than
coding errors on Cloudflare's behalf, including at least one massive
self-DDoS (falling back to step 0 if a subsequent HTTP request lacked
Origin:, with no or little timeout), had plenty of fallbacks to support
more browsers) to the new verification system based on "Turnstile"
(which is designed to support a few listed browsers).)

(Google's reCAPTCHA isn't that much better. It still works on SeaMonkey,
but not thanks to Google who found it fitting to tell me to ask on
StackOverflow for a problem with *Google's* code. That's on top of the
Google issue tracker for reCAPTCHA having a not-so-little issue that
makes it more difficult to report issues with reCAPTCHA... (guess what
the issue is))

-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88489 — Re: """Standard""" software

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-28 12:51 +0200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<naccmdFclutU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88478
On 2026-06-28 09:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-06-27, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
> [...]
>>> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's
>>> not even a de facto standard the way you stated it,
>>
>> The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about
>> 60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are*
>> basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly
>> beginning to change.
>>
>> * That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 11,
>>   so doesn't include all those still using older versions.
>>
>> * A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for Microsloth
>>   Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
>>   offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google currently has
>>   the most users.
> 
> And Google Docs isn't exactly that good. I kept hitting "why doesn't it
> have $BASIC_FEATURE_OOo_HAD_FOR_YEARS_BEFORE?", and the version control
> being automatic is a bit too useless. For people who don't want to
> bother with it? Maybe it's ok. But if I'm aware of it, I may want to
> group the changes under a descriptive label, and make separate labels
> for separate sets of changes.

I have been using Google Calc spread sheet for some years, to track how 
much gasoline I buy for the car, and how many kilometres it does.

Well, one day it lost me entries. It said there was some sync problem, 
maybe it had stored a local copy that did not match the cloud version. 
Now that file is impossible to open in the phone, it stalls. I could 
open it on the computer and save to a different name, but one or two 
lines are lost.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88504 — Re: """Standard""" software

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-29 01:53 -0400
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<VaKcnSBYBtTDld_3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#88489
On 6/28/26 06:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-28 09:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2026-06-27, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>> [...]
>>>> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's
>>>> not even a de facto standard the way you stated it,
>>>
>>> The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about
>>> 60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are*
>>> basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly
>>> beginning to change.
>>>
>>> * That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 and 
>>> 11,
>>>   so doesn't include all those still using older versions.
>>>
>>> * A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for 
>>> Microsloth
>>>   Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
>>>   offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google 
>>> currently has
>>>   the most users.
>>
>> And Google Docs isn't exactly that good. I kept hitting "why doesn't it
>> have $BASIC_FEATURE_OOo_HAD_FOR_YEARS_BEFORE?", and the version control
>> being automatic is a bit too useless. For people who don't want to
>> bother with it? Maybe it's ok. But if I'm aware of it, I may want to
>> group the changes under a descriptive label, and make separate labels
>> for separate sets of changes.
> 
> I have been using Google Calc spread sheet for some years, to track how 
> much gasoline I buy for the car, and how many kilometres it does.

   The office gals used to write, then re-write, our
   entire budget/payroll/expense system as spreadsheets
   until quite recently. A dozen+ heavily-linked pages
   at minimum.

   They were trying to implement an expensive all-in-one
   miracle office/biz system about the time I retired.
   Best I could tell it didn't really have the nuance to
   cope with anyone's Real World reliably. Stuff like
   QuickBooks can SORT of do it ... but something is
   ALWAYS different than the designers Vision.

> Well, one day it lost me entries. It said there was some sync problem, 
> maybe it had stored a local copy that did not match the cloud version. 
> Now that file is impossible to open in the phone, it stalls. I could 
> open it on the computer and save to a different name, but one or two 
> lines are lost.

   Complex sheets are notoriously difficult to diagnose/fix
   when problems appear. Everything is linked to everything.

   And like an un-commented 'C' app, even figuring out WHERE
   the fault is can be a major trial. Meanwhile, how does
   the crew, the bills, get PAID ?

   Even small biz took spreadsheets far beyond what they
   were assumed to be for. Cudos to the writers that they
   COULD be pushed so far, but the debugging tools quickly
   lagged behind.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88516 — Re: """Standard""" software

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-29 10:53 +0200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<naeq4qFp98jU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88504
On 2026-06-29 07:53, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/28/26 06:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-28 09:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-27, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2026-06-26 08:37:41 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>>> [...]
>>>>> I think relativism from your part would improve matters too. It's
>>>>> not even a de facto standard the way you stated it,
>>>>
>>>> The majority of businesses in the world use Microsloth Windoze (about
>>>> 60%-66%*) and Microsloth Ofiice (about 82% in 2017*)... they *are*
>>>> basically the standard and have been for decades now. It may be slowly
>>>> beginning to change.
>>>>
>>>> * That figure is for those using the lastest versions Windowze 10 
>>>> and 11,
>>>>   so doesn't include all those still using older versions.
>>>>
>>>> * A very quick search doesn't turn up more up-to-date figures for 
>>>> Microsloth
>>>>   Office, only for the online Office 365 version, which doesn't include
>>>>   offline users. In terms of just online office apps, Google 
>>>> currently has
>>>>   the most users.
>>>
>>> And Google Docs isn't exactly that good. I kept hitting "why doesn't it
>>> have $BASIC_FEATURE_OOo_HAD_FOR_YEARS_BEFORE?", and the version control
>>> being automatic is a bit too useless. For people who don't want to
>>> bother with it? Maybe it's ok. But if I'm aware of it, I may want to
>>> group the changes under a descriptive label, and make separate labels
>>> for separate sets of changes.
>>
>> I have been using Google Calc spread sheet for some years, to track 
>> how much gasoline I buy for the car, and how many kilometres it does.
> 
>    The office gals used to write, then re-write, our
>    entire budget/payroll/expense system as spreadsheets
>    until quite recently. A dozen+ heavily-linked pages
>    at minimum.
> 
>    They were trying to implement an expensive all-in-one
>    miracle office/biz system about the time I retired.
>    Best I could tell it didn't really have the nuance to
>    cope with anyone's Real World reliably. Stuff like
>    QuickBooks can SORT of do it ... but something is
>    ALWAYS different than the designers Vision.
> 
>> Well, one day it lost me entries. It said there was some sync problem, 
>> maybe it had stored a local copy that did not match the cloud version. 
>> Now that file is impossible to open in the phone, it stalls. I could 
>> open it on the computer and save to a different name, but one or two 
>> lines are lost.
> 
>    Complex sheets are notoriously difficult to diagnose/fix
>    when problems appear. Everything is linked to everything.

It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred lines 
and 15 columns, a table.

And it just failed again. At least this time I kept the paper.

I need another product for the phone.



-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88523 — Re: """Standard""" software

FromFritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202606.rodent.frell.theremailer.net>
Date2026-06-29 19:01 +0200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<f6b49dfbbddf876ba467eeb5d43d31af@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
In reply to#88516
Carlos E. R. <robin_lis...@es.invalid> [CER]:
CER> It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred
CER> lines and 15 columns, a table.
CER> And it just failed again.
CER>
CER> I need another product for the phone.

Another option to consider: just build a form to collect your data
(https://fillout.com) exactly the way you like it (e.g. with dates in
european format and day/month names in spanish) and then save your
data to (at least) a couple of online db's that have a CRUD REST API.
Then build a dashboard/stats galore web page with all the
metrics/charts that you need.

Both the form and the dashboard pages can be accessed from anywhere
and any device. No need to limit yourself just to what a mobile app
offers.

The fillout.com sister site zite.com lets you build your stats
web page as well as store the data to their db (with a generous
free tier) just by typing a few prompts to their AI bot.
Give it a try, it's definitely more fun than hunting down the right
fuel consumption app (mostly by and for americans, with their miles,
gallons, mpg units) for your mobile phone. With a custom web
form you can do a lot of neat stuff like optimizing it for small
screen devices, or changing the default submit button(s) to a
thumbnail image of your vehicles/vessels, if you happen to operate
more than one of them.

Microsites built with AI seem to be all the rage these days.
They don't call it SaaSpocalypse for nothing...

(No affiliation with the aforementioned web sites, just a happy
customer)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88524 — Re: """Standard""" software

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-29 19:29 +0200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software
Message-ID<nafoc3Fu7pkU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#88523
On 2026-06-29 19:01, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_lis...@es.invalid> [CER]:
> CER> It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred
> CER> lines and 15 columns, a table.
> CER> And it just failed again.
> CER>
> CER> I need another product for the phone.
> 
> Another option to consider: just build a form to collect your data
> (https://fillout.com) exactly the way you like it (e.g. with dates in
> european format and day/month names in spanish) and then save your
> data to (at least) a couple of online db's that have a CRUD REST API.
> Then build a dashboard/stats galore web page with all the
> metrics/charts that you need.

Mmm.

I found an alternative software: Collabora Office. I transferred the 
calc sheet. It can be stored in Drive or locally.

Also, clearing the cache and data from the Google Calc app apparently 
solves the issue.

> 
> Both the form and the dashboard pages can be accessed from anywhere
> and any device. No need to limit yourself just to what a mobile app
> offers.
> 
> The fillout.com sister site zite.com lets you build your stats
> web page as well as store the data to their db (with a generous
> free tier) just by typing a few prompts to their AI bot.
> Give it a try, it's definitely more fun than hunting down the right
> fuel consumption app (mostly by and for americans, with their miles,
> gallons, mpg units) for your mobile phone. With a custom web
> form you can do a lot of neat stuff like optimizing it for small
> screen devices, or changing the default submit button(s) to a
> thumbnail image of your vehicles/vessels, if you happen to operate
> more than one of them.
> 
> Microsites built with AI seem to be all the rage these days.
> They don't call it SaaSpocalypse for nothing...
> 
> (No affiliation with the aforementioned web sites, just a happy
> customer)
> 

Stored for another occasion :)

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88526 — Re: “Standard” software

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-30 02:48 +0000
SubjectRe: “Standard” software
Message-ID<111vapl$phcs$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88516
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 10:53:46 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred
> lines and 15 columns, a table.

There is an old engineering adage which says that, in any system,
complexity arises, not so much from the numbe of components, as from
the number of potential interactions between them.

This applies to both hardware and software.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88530 — Re: “Standard” software

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-30 09:08 +0100
SubjectRe: “Standard” software
Message-ID<111vtho$t6u0$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88526
On 2026-06-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 10:53:46 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred
>> lines and 15 columns, a table.
>
> There is an old engineering adage which says that, in any system,
> complexity arises, not so much from the numbe of components, as from
> the number of potential interactions between them.
>
> This applies to both hardware and software.

That's easy to solve, we just need to create a new component to
alleviate these interaction issues!

(<http://enwp.org/WP:SARC>)

-- 
Nuno Silva
(Okay, there may be specific cases where that *is* a viable solution.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#88540 — Re: “Standard” software

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-06-30 18:51 +0000
SubjectRe: “Standard” software
Message-ID<reU0S.2$kfzb.0@fx35.iad>
In reply to#88530
On 2026-06-30, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 2026-06-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 10:53:46 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> It is not complex at all, by computer standards. Just four hundred
>>> lines and 15 columns, a table.
>>
>> There is an old engineering adage which says that, in any system,
>> complexity arises, not so much from the numbe of components, as from
>> the number of potential interactions between them.
>>
>> This applies to both hardware and software.
>
> That's easy to solve, we just need to create a new component to
> alleviate these interaction issues!
>
> (<http://enwp.org/WP:SARC>)

LOL!  Thanks for giving me a whole new area of Wikipedia to explore.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  No artificial
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  intelligence was
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  used in the creation
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  of this post.

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#88433 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<A9z%R.9638$f6E1.1190@fx14.iad>
In reply to#88411
On 2026-06-26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:34:01 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>
>> On 2026-06-25 05:55:22 +0000, Nuno Silva said:
>>
>>> And who declared Microsoft products "standard software"?
>> <snip>
>>
>> Most of the business world did years ago ...
>
> Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
> by Linux?

Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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#88435 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<20260626122353.00005191@gmail.com>
In reply to#88433
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> > Is this the same “business world” that has largely moved its
> > operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
> > by Linux?  
> 
> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.

Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as
a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who
validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to
use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now.
Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid
$xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.

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#88442 — Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
SubjectRe: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon)
Message-ID<111n0r6$svm3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#88435
On 2026-06-26 19:23:53 +0000, John Ames said:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 18:03:12 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is this the same "business world" that has largely moved its
>>> operations into the cloud these days? The cloud that is dominated
>>> by Linux?
>> 
>> Shhhhh... don't say that too loudly.  Bill might not like it.
> 
> Are you kidding? M$ makes *bank* on Office 365, whether it's running as 
> a bloated Web app or a bloated native executable. *Herds* of CEOs who 
> validate themselves by cutting checks for stuff they'll never have to 
> use have been inflicting this on their workers for like a decade now.

Microsloth Windoze and Orifice have unfortunately been basically 
business standards for multiple decades now. Word was first released in 
1983 and "Office" (with Excel, etc.) in 1989.

Even if people don't use Orifice themselves, almost every document you 
come across (other than PDFs) is in .doc format because that gives the 
widest potential compatibility ... as long as it's a simple document. 
If it's a complex document, then compatibility tends to go out the 
window. (For example, TextEdit and QuickLook on the Mac can read and 
write .doc / .docx format files, but even mildly complicated formatting 
will end up looking a mess, especially in QuickLook.)



> Satya could probably not give less of a shit whether he's getting paid 
> $xxx/mo. a head for that on Chromium/Linux or Edge/Win11.

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