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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #13769 > unrolled thread

Keeping 'order' without RTC.

Started bynot.socialnetwork@gmail.com
First post2015-02-28 12:13 +0000
Last post2015-04-14 06:46 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 219 — 49 participants

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Contents

  Keeping 'order' without RTC. not.socialnetwork@gmail.com - 2015-02-28 12:13 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 06:52 -0600
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 13:17 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 07:59 -0600
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 18:28 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 19:13 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 19:22 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 15:48 -0500
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-02-28 21:14 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-02-28 22:40 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-02-28 18:01 -0600
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 01:44 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 07:21 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. cl@isbd.net - 2015-03-01 09:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 10:08 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 11:29 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 17:18 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 18:33 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-02 09:06 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 09:19 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-02 17:13 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-02 09:29 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-02 16:27 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jim Diamond <Jim.Diamond@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> - 2015-03-05 08:36 -0400
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. cl@isbd.net - 2015-03-01 11:25 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 11:40 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 16:08 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-01 17:11 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 18:47 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-01 19:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-03-03 22:27 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 00:50 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 01:51 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2015-03-04 17:05 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 17:59 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:46 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-06 00:00 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-06 06:55 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 07:31 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 10:00 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 11:01 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 22:15 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 22:20 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-05 01:07 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-05 10:20 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-05 10:51 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:53 +0000
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-05 15:35 +0000
                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 17:24 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-05 11:49 +0000
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-05 23:56 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-04 22:34 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-04 08:23 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-04 11:19 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-04 17:44 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:10 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-03-04 10:43 +0200
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-03-04 09:28 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:11 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-04 08:22 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 13:34 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 09:14 -0500
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2015-02-28 08:52 -0600
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 15:22 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 15:46 -0500
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-02-28 21:10 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-02-28 19:48 -0500
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-03-01 09:08 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-03-01 07:52 -0500
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-01 16:15 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> - 2015-03-01 20:28 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. not.socialnetwork@gmail.com - 2015-03-01 11:00 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-01 11:17 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 07:37 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-03 17:21 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 11:43 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 10:44 -0800
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-01 19:08 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-03-01 20:46 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 13:12 -0800
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 13:07 -0800
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 21:56 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. RRansil <ransil@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-01 14:49 -0800
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-02-28 18:26 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-02-28 19:29 +0000
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-03-01 14:22 -0500
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-01 21:54 +0000
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-02 16:12 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2015-03-02 19:57 +0100
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-03 10:15 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-03 19:38 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-04 10:43 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net> - 2015-03-04 11:23 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 11:30 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-04 15:25 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-04 16:13 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 16:31 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 16:38 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:39 +0100
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "David B" <askforemail@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 16:53 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:03 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-04 08:52 -0800
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:23 -0500
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-04 17:29 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-05 20:16 -0500
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-03-05 22:38 -0500
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-06 17:46 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-03-06 18:45 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-06 14:56 -0600
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-06 06:30 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-03-06 08:24 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-06 17:46 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2015-03-06 10:02 -0800
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-06 09:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-07 00:34 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-06 06:21 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 11:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-06 14:56 -0600
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-07 12:14 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-08 02:38 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-03-07 21:15 -0600
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-03-07 21:44 -0600
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:26 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-03-08 09:42 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-03 23:20 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-05 08:52 +0000
            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-05 09:13 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-03-05 09:47 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-03-06 01:31 +0000
              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 04:53 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-03-11 05:24 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> - 2015-03-11 07:58 -0700
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-03-11 19:01 +0000
                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-03-11 13:20 +0000
                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 17:17 +0000
                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-12 13:50 -0400
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-04-13 13:14 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-13 15:10 +0100
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2015-04-14 00:30 +1000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-13 17:47 +0100
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-04-15 22:37 +0200
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-17 02:32 +0100
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 23:09 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Joe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh> - 2015-04-27 13:13 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-13 16:22 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-04-13 21:14 -0400
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-04-13 21:55 -0400
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-14 09:06 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-14 10:12 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-04-14 10:29 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-14 12:05 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-04-14 22:08 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:11 -0400
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:15 +0000
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-04-14 05:25 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:13 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:18 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-04 03:44 +0000
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 04:44 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Jack Ryan <noreply@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2015-05-04 07:54 -0400
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 18:26 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2015-05-04 19:40 +0100
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Kees Theunissen <theuniss@rijnh.nl> - 2015-05-04 22:31 +0200
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-04 22:35 +0000
                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-04 19:13 -0500
                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-05 02:56 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Baeuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2015-05-05 08:04 +0000
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-05 09:22 +0100
                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-05 08:26 -0500
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-05 18:08 +0000
                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-05-11 23:16 +0100
                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-11 17:52 -0500
                                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 07:09 +0100
                                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 06:47 +0000
                                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 08:27 +0100
                                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 15:44 +0000
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 17:08 +0100
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 17:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-12 12:41 -0500
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 19:03 +0100
                                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 18:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 19:59 +0100
                                                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 20:05 +0000
                                                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 22:58 +0100
                                                                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-13 01:15 +0000
                                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-13 08:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-13 09:24 +0100
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-05-12 11:50 -0500
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 18:52 +0100
                                                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 17:29 +0000
                                                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 18:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-12 20:00 +0100
                                                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 20:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 06:14 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 06:09 +0000
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-05-12 06:44 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. c28f62@TheWorld.com (Mark Kramer) - 2015-05-12 17:45 +0000
                                    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-12 21:06 +0100
                      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-14 23:18 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-04-14 20:58 -0400
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-15 06:20 +0000
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2015-04-16 02:58 +0000
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 05:21 +0100
                          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2015-04-16 11:42 +0200
                            Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-16 12:10 +0000
                              Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 13:42 +0100
                                Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-16 15:06 +0000
                                  Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 23:09 +0100
                        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-04-16 14:17 -0400
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-04 09:56 +0000
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2015-04-16 06:13 -0400
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-16 12:40 +0100
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com> - 2015-04-16 16:32 -0400
        Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2015-04-17 01:54 +0000
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-17 06:34 +0100
          Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Dr J R Stockton <reply1500@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-04-18 23:13 +0100
    Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2015-04-13 20:39 -0500
      Re: Keeping 'order' without RTC. Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-04-14 06:46 +0000

Page 7 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 11  Next page →


#13978

FromJack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com>
Date2015-03-08 02:38 +0000
Message-ID<nKvGoE.L7u@yahoo.com>
In reply to#13973
Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> writes:
> 
> FWIW, this was the same single-density, single-sided diskette standard that
> Woz used with Group Coded Recording to get (eventually) 143K bytes on a
> side (by using a clever state machine to do clock recovery)--at the same
> bit density. 
> 
I don't think so. Mine was a standard FM (later superseded by the
double-density MFM 512 bytes per sector) format: 35 tracks, 
10 sectors, 256 bytes per sector, hard-sectored. (North Star
MDS using fairly simple hardware)

Woz's system was completely different, being software-intensive
utilising the CPU instead of simple hardware,if I remember correctly.

Jack
-- 
"I'm a home-loving girl. And that's where I wish I was."
"At home ..."
"Loving."
               - Laugh-In, 1968

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#13979

FromMichael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com>
Date2015-03-07 21:15 -0600
Message-ID<1839896073447475809.420670mjmahon-aol.com@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#13978
Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> writes:
>> 
>> FWIW, this was the same single-density, single-sided diskette standard that
>> Woz used with Group Coded Recording to get (eventually) 143K bytes on a
>> side (by using a clever state machine to do clock recovery)--at the same
>> bit density. 
>> 
> I don't think so. Mine was a standard FM (later superseded by the
> double-density MFM 512 bytes per sector) format: 35 tracks, 
> 10 sectors, 256 bytes per sector, hard-sectored. (North Star
> MDS using fairly simple hardware)
> 
> Woz's system was completely different, being software-intensive
> utilising the CPU instead of simple hardware,if I remember correctly.
> 
> Jack

Check the facts. 

Woz used a standard SA 390 drive, minus the standard analog card, which did
additional signal conditioning and controlled seeks. 

The bit rate (disk transitions,  not unrestricted data, was 250kHz, that
is, single density.  

He did GCR coding/decoding in software, as well as seeking/head
positioning. Since (by the time of Apple DOS 3.3, each of 35 tracks held 16
256-byte sectors, for a single-sided capacity of 143,360 bytes. 

Because his software seek routines used acceleration/deceleration tables,
the Disk ][ could seek faster than the Shugart constant-step-rate
technique. 

And because his GCR put six data bits into each 8-bit group on the disk,
while single-density FM disks wrote only 4 bits per 8 bits on the media, he
obtained a 50% boost in data density at the same bit density. 

And yes, his Disk ][ Controller was a design of great cleverness and
beauty, based on a self-synchronizing ROM state machine running at 2MHz, in
which one of the ROM address pins was the head signal!

If you've never seen the design, I recommend it to all digital designers.
Beauty = Function / Complexity. ;-)

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/201423/Understanding-the-Apple-II-by-Jim-Sather-1983Quality-Software

See chapter 9 for a good time. ;-)

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

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#13980

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2015-03-07 21:44 -0600
Message-ID<87oao4b1ad.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org>
In reply to#13979
Michael J. Mahon writes:
> And yes, his Disk ][ Controller was a design of great cleverness and
> beauty, based on a self-synchronizing ROM state machine running at 2MHz, in
> which one of the ROM address pins was the head signal!

> If you've never seen the design, I recommend it to all digital
> designers.  Beauty = Function / Complexity. ;-)

I once had a contract to design a non-infringing implementation.  Took
me about half again as many parts.  I don't know if it would have stood
up in court because the client ran out of money.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#13985

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2015-03-08 16:26 +0000
Message-ID<mdht8f01el3@news4.newsguy.com>
In reply to#13979
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]

On 2015-03-08, Michael J  Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:

> Beauty = Function / Complexity. ;-)

I like that.  It says it all.  It also explains why our current
society, so obsessed with complexity, is becoming ugly.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#13983

FromRob <nomail@example.com>
Date2015-03-08 09:42 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmfo6bm.d9p.nomail@xs8.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#13978
Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Woz's system was completely different, being software-intensive
> utilising the CPU instead of simple hardware,if I remember correctly.

In fact in those days the CPU usually was fully committed when using
the floppy anyway.  When using an LSI controller that did all the work,
there still had to be a CPU loop that polled some "data ready" bit, read
a byte from the controller, stored it in memory, incremented a pointer,
decremented a counter, and looped for all bytes in the sector.  This
required clever code and used almost all of a Z-80 at about 2 MHz.
It was not possible to do this in an interrupt handler because the
interrupt overhead would be too much for a single byte.  DMA was the
only other option but it was used only by a few systems.

Of course the controller could do a seek while the CPU would do something
else, but as the system was usually single-tasking in those days there
was little advantage in doing that, or at least the OS did not make an
attempt to take advantage of it.
(i.e. it would send a seek command to the controller and then busy-wait
until it completed)

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#13855

FromJohny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com>
Date2015-03-03 23:20 +0000
Message-ID<0dgcfapnrqi2fs7msjdhvf0kg92dec2jbb@4ax.com>
In reply to#13847
On Mon,  2 Mar 2015 19:57:15 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
<nobody@dizum.com> wrote:

>Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
>>
>> >PCs have had RTC for a long long time now.
>> 
>>  Only from August 1984
>
>That was a long long time ago.

 Not to me it wasn't. :-(
-- 
J B Good

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#13918

FromUnknown <dog@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-05 08:52 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.03.05.09.02.56@gmail.com>
In reply to#13843
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> 
>>On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
>>>> RealTimeClock.
--- snip--
>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
>>> most-recent
>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down. That's
>>>> why stacks are used.
>>>>
>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
>>>>
>>>> ==TIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>  IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation from
> the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby or a GPS
> receiver.
> 
"Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.

>  Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.

I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13919

Fromalister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com>
Date2015-03-05 09:13 +0000
Message-ID<md96n8$nbb$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#13918
On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:52:02 +0000, Unknown wrote:

> On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
>> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>>On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
>>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
>>>>> RealTimeClock.
> --- snip--
>>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
>>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
>>>> most-recent
>>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down. That's
>>>>> why stacks are used.
>>>>>
>>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> ==TIA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>  IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
>> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
>> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation from
>> the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby or a
>> GPS receiver.
>> 
> "Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.
> 
>>  Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
>> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
>> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
>> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
>> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.
> 
> I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.

Engineers only speak to organ grinders not monkeys

YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.
Either follow the advise you are given (spent tuppence ha'penny on an RTC 
module) or take your business elsewhere.





-- 
Cheer Up!  Things are getting worse at a slower rate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13920

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2015-03-05 09:47 +0000
Message-ID<md98ns$91t$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#13919
In comp.os.linux.misc alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:52:02 +0000, Unknown wrote:

> > On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
> >> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
> >>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
> >>>>> RealTimeClock.
> > --- snip--
> >>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
> >>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
> >>>> most-recent
> >>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down. That's
> >>>>> why stacks are used.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ==TIA.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>  IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
> >> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
> >> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation from
> >> the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby or a
> >> GPS receiver.
> >> 
> > "Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.
> > 
> >>  Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
> >> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
> >> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
> >> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
> >> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.
> > 
> > I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.

> Engineers only speak to organ grinders not monkeys

> YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.
> Either follow the advise you are given (spent tuppence ha'penny on an RTC 
> module) or take your business elsewhere.

Do Not Feed The Trolls.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Z2Va6S-wRls/TYcQZmuPSYI/AAAAAAAAAKI/N9rkyluOyPw/s1600/Trolls-3.gif

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#13950

FromJohny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com>
Date2015-03-06 01:31 +0000
Message-ID<ip0ifa53ceoo0cldf5b6ksf7iddcgcpmp5@4ax.com>
In reply to#13920
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:47:40 +0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid>
wrote:


>
>Do Not Feed The Trolls.

... Is the right answer! :-)

>http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Z2Va6S-wRls/TYcQZmuPSYI/AAAAAAAAAKI/N9rkyluOyPw/s1600/Trolls-3.gif
-- 
J B Good

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#14007

FromUnknown <dog@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-11 04:53 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.03.11.05.04.49@gmail.com>
In reply to#13919
On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:13:12 +0000, alister wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:52:02 +0000, Unknown wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
>>> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
>>>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
>>>>>> RealTimeClock.
>> --- snip--
>>>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
>>>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
>>>>> most-recent
>>>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down.
>>>>>> That's why stacks are used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ==TIA.
>>>>>>
>>>  IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
>>> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
>>> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation
>>> from the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby
>>> or a GPS receiver.
>>> 
>> "Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.
>> 
>>>  Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
>>> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
>>> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
>>> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
>>> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.
>> 
>> I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.
> 
> Engineers only speak to organ grinders not monkeys
> 
> YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Either follow the
> advise you are given (spent tuppence ha'penny on an RTC module) or take
> your business elsewhere.

Interestingly, 2 of the major 20th century technologies were 'developed'
by US <hobbyists> collaborating: aviation & computing.
USEnet originated as a collaborating device.
But, apparently most USEnet users are now a generation younger than me
and also stressed by the arrival of Toffler's 3-rd-wave economy.

Considering that many retirees are genetically programmed to play golf,
imagine their reaction if you advised them to buy-a-ding-dong to get the
ball in the hole. 

So, back to the algorithm:
 the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
 key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he needed
 the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
 Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
 <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the real-time
 attributes were not needed.

So how can you achieve that by *thinking*, instead of buying a ding-dong
that will put-the-ball-in-the-hole-for you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14008

FromWilliam Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca>
Date2015-03-11 05:24 +0000
Message-ID<mdoji5$681$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14007
On 2015-03-11, Unknown <dog@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:13:12 +0000, alister wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:52:02 +0000, Unknown wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
>>>> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
>>>>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
>>>>>>> RealTimeClock.
>>> --- snip--
>>>>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
>>>>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
>>>>>> most-recent
>>>>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down.
>>>>>>> That's why stacks are used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ==TIA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>  IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
>>>> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
>>>> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation
>>>> from the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby
>>>> or a GPS receiver.
>>>> 
>>> "Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.
>>> 
>>>>  Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
>>>> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
>>>> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
>>>> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
>>>> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.
>>> 
>>> I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.
>> 
>> Engineers only speak to organ grinders not monkeys
>> 
>> YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Either follow the
>> advise you are given (spent tuppence ha'penny on an RTC module) or take
>> your business elsewhere.
>
> Interestingly, 2 of the major 20th century technologies were 'developed'
> by US <hobbyists> collaborating: aviation & computing.
> USEnet originated as a collaborating device.
> But, apparently most USEnet users are now a generation younger than me
> and also stressed by the arrival of Toffler's 3-rd-wave economy.
>
> Considering that many retirees are genetically programmed to play golf,
> imagine their reaction if you advised them to buy-a-ding-dong to get the
> ball in the hole. 
>
> So, back to the algorithm:
>  the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
>  key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he needed
>  the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
>  Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
> <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the real-time
>  attributes were not needed.
>
> So how can you achieve that by *thinking*, instead of buying a ding-dong
> that will put-the-ball-in-the-hole-for you.

Numerous suggestions have been made. He has not responded. If you are
the OP, take one of the suggestions and impliment it. 
And not all required a "dingdong" (and an $8 dingdong is cheaper than
the time he has already wasted)

>

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#14011

FromKeith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Date2015-03-11 07:58 -0700
Message-ID<vo16tbxgqk.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
In reply to#14008
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]

On 2015-03-11, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-03-11, Unknown <dog@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Numerous suggestions have been made. He has not responded. If you are
> the OP, take one of the suggestions and impliment it. 

That is one of the "Chris Glur" troll morphs, so he is the OP.  This is
one of his trolling tactics: ignoring all advice and re-posting another
poorly reworded phrasing of his original poorly worded question, with
the implication that somehow none of the answers provided were "good
enough" for him, because he's somehow smarter than everyone else yet
completely unable to solve his own problem.

> And not all required a "dingdong" (and an $8 dingdong is cheaper than
> the time he has already wasted)

He only really cares about wasting our time, not his.

--keith

-- 
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#14014

Frommm0fmf <none@mailinator.com>
Date2015-03-11 19:01 +0000
Message-ID<zi0Mw.1249050$I4.88965@fx34.am4>
In reply to#14008
On 11/03/2015 05:24, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2015-03-11, Unknown <dog@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:13:12 +0000, alister wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 08:52:02 +0000, Unknown wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:12:47 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 21:54:39 +0000 (UTC), William Unruh
>>>>> <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-03-01, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2015, not.socialnetwork@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you transfer a dir of script/s  & data-files to rPi from your
>>>>>>>> PC, via USBstik, there's a problem, since the rPi has no
>>>>>>>> RealTimeClock.
>>>> --- snip--
>>>>>>>> So the important abilty to 'evaluate' files by their recentcy
>>>>>>> is lost. > It's a universal truth that you'll want to get the
>>>>>>> most-recent
>>>>>>>> cup-of-coffee and not the 17th most-recent that you put-down.
>>>>>>>> That's why stacks are used.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What algorithm do you use to solve this problem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ==TIA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>   IMO, the best "Algorithm" is to use an add on RTC module and add the
>>>>> appropriate time setting requests to the startup script if reasonably
>>>>> accurate time is required on a R-Pi that stands in total isolation
>>>>> from the internet or any other time setting source such as MSF Rugby
>>>>> or a GPS receiver.
>>>>>
>>>> "Algorithm" means: understand that 'order'/sequence> does not need RTC.
>>>>
>>>>>   Relying on the latest date of a regularly updated file is a piss poor
>>>>> workaround at best, only being slightly better than nothing at all. If
>>>>> the system date/time has any importance at all (at least to the extent
>>>>> of asking this question), you really aught to fit an RTC module if no
>>>>> alternative source of accurate time setting is available.
>>>>
>>>> I want to speak to the injunyear, not the sales-clerk.
>>>
>>> Engineers only speak to organ grinders not monkeys
>>>
>>> YOU CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Either follow the
>>> advise you are given (spent tuppence ha'penny on an RTC module) or take
>>> your business elsewhere.
>>
>> Interestingly, 2 of the major 20th century technologies were 'developed'
>> by US <hobbyists> collaborating: aviation & computing.
>> USEnet originated as a collaborating device.
>> But, apparently most USEnet users are now a generation younger than me
>> and also stressed by the arrival of Toffler's 3-rd-wave economy.
>>
>> Considering that many retirees are genetically programmed to play golf,
>> imagine their reaction if you advised them to buy-a-ding-dong to get the
>> ball in the hole.
>>
>> So, back to the algorithm:
>>   the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
>>   key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he needed
>>   the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
>>   Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
>> <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the real-time
>>   attributes were not needed.
>>
>> So how can you achieve that by *thinking*, instead of buying a ding-dong
>> that will put-the-ball-in-the-hole-for you.
>
> Numerous suggestions have been made. He has not responded. If you are
> the OP, take one of the suggestions and impliment it.
> And not all required a "dingdong" (and an $8 dingdong is cheaper than
> the time he has already wasted)
>
>>
Which bit of DON'T FEED THE TROLL do you not understand?

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#14010

FromJoe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh>
Date2015-03-11 13:20 +0000
Message-ID<mdpfe6$r9h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14007
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 04:53:11 +0000, Unknown wrote:
> So, back to the algorithm:
>  the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
>  key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he needed
>  the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
>  Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
>  <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the
>  real-time attributes were not needed.

One option, forget the idea of timestamps entirely. Name the files with
sequential numbers. Be sure to zero pad so ls works as expected. You
could even do the Basic programming trick of skipping numbers (e.g. by
10s) so you could insert items higher in the queue without renumbering.

000000010-playme.mp3
000000020-thesis.mp3
000000030-soothing.mp3
000000040-jamz.mp3

uh-oh, breaking news, add
000000000-sungoingnova.mp3

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#14509

FromUnknown <dog@gmail.com>
Date2015-04-12 17:17 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.04.12.17.18.50@gmail.com>
In reply to#14010
On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:20:06 +0000, Joe Beanfish wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 04:53:11 +0000, Unknown wrote:
>> So, back to the algorithm:
>>  the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
>>  key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he
>>  needed the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
>>  Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
>>  <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the
>>  real-time attributes were not needed.
> 
> One option, forget the idea of timestamps entirely. Name the files with
> sequential numbers. Be sure to zero pad so ls works as expected. You
> could even do the Basic programming trick of skipping numbers (e.g. by
> 10s) so you could insert items higher in the queue without renumbering.
> 
> 000000010-playme.mp3
> 000000020-thesis.mp3
> 000000030-soothing.mp3
> 000000040-jamz.mp3
> 
> uh-oh, breaking news, add
> 000000000-sungoingnova.mp3

That's the kind if original good idea which we need !!
With the 'thread overflow' I nearly missed this 1 month old post.
I'll try to implement your idea, when I've cleared the chaos.

Thanks.

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#14510

FromMichael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date2015-04-12 13:50 -0400
Message-ID<alpine.LNX.2.02.1504121346440.10384@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to#14509
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015, Unknown wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:20:06 +0000, Joe Beanfish wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 04:53:11 +0000, Unknown wrote:
>>> So, back to the algorithm:
>>>  the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"] is
>>>  key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he
>>>  needed the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he returned.
>>>  Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
>>>  <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the
>>>  real-time attributes were not needed.
>>
>> One option, forget the idea of timestamps entirely. Name the files with
>> sequential numbers. Be sure to zero pad so ls works as expected. You
>> could even do the Basic programming trick of skipping numbers (e.g. by
>> 10s) so you could insert items higher in the queue without renumbering.
>>
>> 000000010-playme.mp3
>> 000000020-thesis.mp3
>> 000000030-soothing.mp3
>> 000000040-jamz.mp3
>>
>> uh-oh, breaking news, add
>> 000000000-sungoingnova.mp3
>
> That's the kind if original good idea which we need !!
> With the 'thread overflow' I nearly missed this 1 month old post.
> I'll try to implement your idea, when I've cleared the chaos.
>
And the Raspberry Pi can't run without a Real Time Clock.

You wasted all this time because you pretended to no know that.

Linux needs to be interrupted to actually work, so keeping time
is intrinsic to the operating system.

Like I said way back when, all you have to do is set the time and date 
when you start the Pi up, something that used to be quite common.  A 
hardware clock is only used to set the time when the computer starts, 
saving you a few keystrokes, the Pi or any Linux computer doesn't get time 
from the hardware clock other times (unless someone is configuring it 
differently, and a common thing then is to access a cesium standard on the 
internet, which would be another way do to this if the Pi is networked).

You waste everyone's time, and now thing some roundabout method is "good", 
when it is all about you being too lazy to set the time when you turn on 
the computer.

   Michael

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#14519

FromJoe Beanfish <joebeanfish@nospam.duh>
Date2015-04-13 13:14 +0000
Message-ID<mggfft$ftu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#14510
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:50:16 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015, Unknown wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:20:06 +0000, Joe Beanfish wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 04:53:11 +0000, Unknown wrote:
>>>> So, back to the algorithm:
>>>>  the mathematical concept 'order' [as emphasised in the "Subject:"]
>>>>  is key. When Newton was called away from his desk of paper-work, he
>>>>  needed the papers to be 'stacked' in the same ORDER when he
>>>>  returned.
>>>>  Even if the cleaning-lady, had 'been there' during his absence, and
>>>>  <accessed the files>, provided the 'order' was maintained, the
>>>>  real-time attributes were not needed.
>>>
>>> One option, forget the idea of timestamps entirely. Name the files
>>> with sequential numbers. Be sure to zero pad so ls works as expected.
>>> You could even do the Basic programming trick of skipping numbers
>>> (e.g. by 10s) so you could insert items higher in the queue without
>>> renumbering.
>>>
>>> 000000010-playme.mp3 000000020-thesis.mp3 000000030-soothing.mp3
>>> 000000040-jamz.mp3
>>>
>>> uh-oh, breaking news, add 000000000-sungoingnova.mp3
>>
>> That's the kind if original good idea which we need !!
>> With the 'thread overflow' I nearly missed this 1 month old post.
>> I'll try to implement your idea, when I've cleared the chaos.
>>
> And the Raspberry Pi can't run without a Real Time Clock.
> 
> You wasted all this time because you pretended to no know that.
> 
> Linux needs to be interrupted to actually work, so keeping time is
> intrinsic to the operating system.
> 
> Like I said way back when, all you have to do is set the time and date
> when you start the Pi up, something that used to be quite common.  A
> hardware clock is only used to set the time when the computer starts,
> saving you a few keystrokes, the Pi or any Linux computer doesn't get
> time from the hardware clock other times (unless someone is configuring
> it differently, and a common thing then is to access a cesium standard
> on the internet, which would be another way do to this if the Pi is
> networked).
> 
> You waste everyone's time, and now thing some roundabout method is
> "good",
> when it is all about you being too lazy to set the time when you turn on
> the computer.
> 
>    Michael

If you had paid any attention to the complete problem you'd know there's
no way to enter the time on power up. Think of this as a home-brew
ipod nano with no buttons save power on/off.

Please, just butt out of you have nothing to offer. You're worse than
the so-called troll. Same for the rest of ya, there's more blather by
you folk whining or being super-superior about the "troll" than actual
technical discussion about anything. Just shut up already. You think
you're so superior when you're just feeding the fire to get your own
names up in lights.

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#14520

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2015-04-13 15:10 +0100
Message-ID<mgginq$9pp$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#14519
On 13/04/15 14:14, Joe Beanfish wrote:

>
> Please, just butt out of you have nothing to offer. You're worse than
> the so-called troll. Same for the rest of ya, there's more blather by
> you folk whining or being super-superior about the "troll" than actual
> technical discussion about anything. Just shut up already. You think
> you're so superior when you're just feeding the fire to get your own
> names up in lights.
>

If you want time and date to be meaningful - which may or may not be the 
case you have to ensure that they are accurate.

There are three ways to do that -

- a battery backed clock that keeps time when the 'puter is off.
- use of some internet accessible clock that you trust to set time on 
boot and keep time after boot
- manually or magically setting the clock to the correct time on boot.

If none of those suit your bigotry, then go away.
Posing problems that have no acceptable solutions is even easier than 
dreaming up solutions that are totally impractical.

See the Belling Of The Cat.


-- 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the 
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

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#14521

FromGordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid>
Date2015-04-14 00:30 +1000
Message-ID<j6knia997ndg4n6ufjecncb3g27cqhdb17@4ax.com>
In reply to#14520
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 13/04/15 14:14, Joe Beanfish wrote:
>
>>
>> Please, just butt out of you have nothing to offer. You're worse than
>> the so-called troll. Same for the rest of ya, there's more blather by
>> you folk whining or being super-superior about the "troll" than actual
>> technical discussion about anything. Just shut up already. You think
>> you're so superior when you're just feeding the fire to get your own
>> names up in lights.
>>
>
>If you want time and date to be meaningful - which may or may not be the 
>case you have to ensure that they are accurate.

The OP said, specifically, that he only wanted to keep "order". For
that purpose the time and date don't have to be meaningful.
>
>There are three ways to do that -
>
>- a battery backed clock that keeps time when the 'puter is off.
>- use of some internet accessible clock that you trust to set time on 
>boot and keep time after boot
>- manually or magically setting the clock to the correct time on boot.
>
>If none of those suit your bigotry, then go away.
>Posing problems that have no acceptable solutions is even easier than 
>dreaming up solutions that are totally impractical.

Keeping order does have another practical solution. It is only
necessary to set the date and time to a value greater than the latest
date and time that was last used.
>
>See the Belling Of The Cat.

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