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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 311 — 24 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:02 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:17 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 17:33 +0200
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:15 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:36 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:07 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 14:57 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-16 08:41 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:27 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:55 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:09 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:58 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 13:33 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:08 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-19 02:13 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 11:39 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:52 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-19 03:55 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:21 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:13 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:50 -0700
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:26 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
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          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
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        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:07 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:40 +0100
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#94138

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
Message-ID<11b27vf$124l8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94136
On 18/10/2026 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

[engineer]
> Europe corrupted it to mean 'man with a technical degree' - especially a 
> second class SCIENTIST.

At least in the Netherlands we (used to?) have ing, what you call a 
second class SCIENTIST, and ir which is a first class SCIENTISTS.

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#94335

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
Message-ID<11b5bk9$25961$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93833
On 2026-10-16, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
>
> Ah: you reduced the problem to a known one with known complexity in order 
> to derive an upper bound! :o) 

But that's not a known complexity one, the resilience of the beam still
wasn't calculated, and it's possible the bigger motor was beyond what
the beam could securely take, even if the smaller one isn't. The
structure may have been already weakened.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#93912

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
Message-ID<njfc03Fit4rU23@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93813
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
> proportions. I stopped them :
> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
> "Don't worry, it can"
> "How do you know"
> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
> weren't looking"

The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on 
the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown 
reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator. 
Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.

One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with 
a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage. 
Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

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#93925

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
Message-ID<11au47v$3k12p$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93912
On 16/10/2026 20:24, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
> 
> The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on
> the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown
> reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator.
> Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.
> 
> One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with
> a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage.
> Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

LOL
Fist engine I lifted out we used a 5 ton block and tackle designed for 
yacht use.
Whole car was less than 2 tons

Engine got stuck but we kept on heaving.

Now that block may have nee able to withstand 5 tons, but it was bent to 
buggery just with under two.

Floor beams are not specified for the load they can carry without 
breaking, they are specified for the load they can carry without the 
floor looking like a saucer.

Aircraft wings are specified for the load they can stand without 
buckling, They bend all over the shop in flight


-- 
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

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#94088

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
Message-ID<vr3dqmxr17.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#93912
On 2026-10-16 21:24, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 09:26:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> The lads were preparing to lift the engine out of IIRC a fork lift truck
>> using a chain hoist strapped to a wooden beam or rather insubstantial
>> proportions. I stopped them :
>> "We ought to calculate if that beam can take it"
>> "Don't worry, it can"
>> "How do you know"
>> "Because we used it to pull a bigger motor out last week when you
>> weren't looking"
> 
> The first company I worked for chose to assemble the larger machines on
> the 3rd floor and fabricate small parts on the 1st floor for unknown
> reasons. They finally built a machine that wouldn't fit into the elevator.
> Like many old mills, there was a door that opened to the outside.
> 
> One weekend the managers rigged a boom and tried to lower the machine with
> a hoist. The boom failed. Come Monday the grunts got to repair the damage.
> Moral: don't let the director of engineering, an EE, do CE calculations.

In Spain, the Telefónica exchanges were built like that. Maybe three 
levels, each one very tall (allowing to have cables under a false floor 
and also above the tall racks).

Each level had a huge door to the outside, with iron beams above to 
attach pulleys. And two removable rails. I never saw one of those working.

Now they are almost empty, using VoIP machinery that I have not seen.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#93802

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
Message-ID<11asel3$31l32$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93798
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
> script.

Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
over his attempts to hijack Java?

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#93805

From"Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us>
Date2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
Message-ID<87a4oe40v3.fsf@solcaium.us>
In reply to#93802
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>
>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>> script.
>
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?

Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have control
over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they could bend
them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation of Java, Sun
sued so they created C#.
--

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#93807

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
Message-ID<njdvb5Fit4rU14@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#93805
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:26:40 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> 
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>>
>>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>>> script.
>>
>> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
>> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
>> over his attempts to hijack Java?
> 
> Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have control
> over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they could bend
> them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation of Java, Sun
> sued so they created C#.

Visual J++ was superior when it came to coding in the Microsoft ecosystem. 
As you say, Sun sued so the short lived J# was created, followed by C#. C# 
is an improvement on Java, which is slow and bloated.

It's telling that back in the day IBM's skunkworks created the jikes Java 
compiler which was much faster than javac.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#93808

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
Message-ID<11askeu$33cuk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93805
On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 23:26:40 -0700, Peyton wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>>
>>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>>> script.
>>
>> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of
>> corporate vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a
>> good hiding over his attempts to hijack Java?
>
> Something like that. Java got popular, and Microsoft didn't have
> control over it. Microsoft feared that if Java got big enough they
> could bend them over. So Microsoft created their own implementation
> of Java, Sun sued so they created C#.

Here’s another fun thing. Microsoft has been offering Python API
access to Excel users -- and it wants to charge extra for that. Guess
it figures the users are too dumb to figure out they can bypass
Microsoft, and Excel, and make use of Python for free.

You think they could get away with doing that with C♯?

Somehow I don’t think so ...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#93806

FromLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
Date2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
Message-ID<18deef3d76b2b714$10949$2836843$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>
In reply to#93802
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 06:02:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?
>

C# is the most abominable concoction to ever emerge from the human mind
but it, like the failed XPS and WMV formats, represents Microsoft's
intention to dominate all of computing.

Unfortunately, in this case they succeeded.  C# is the dominant choice
for most corporate computing projects and consequently it has sucked
in hordes of C# code monkeys that are falsely labeled as "programmers."

But this thread is about Decimal Floating Point (DFP).

DFP is the preferred format for all calculations.  However, only
IBM Power processors contain the hardware to implement DFP.  All
other systems must use software DFP routines.

GNU/Linux needs DFP libraries but, as indicated, these are no longer
being maintained.

Most "programmers" will only respond with blank stares and gaping mouths.

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#93812

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
Message-ID<YIucnXGZp-ogQ0z3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#93802
On 10/16/26 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
> 
>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>> script.
> 
> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
> over his attempts to hijack Java?

   There is NO really good reason for C++

   Yea, yea, it's "object" - but in C you
   don't REALLY need that.

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#93838

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
Message-ID<11ass82$33n8m$19@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93812
On 16/10/2026 09:22, c186282 wrote:
> On 10/16/26 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Oct 2026 21:53:57 -0700, Peyton wrote:
>>
>>> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
>>> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
>>> script.
>>
>> Tell me again, why does C♯ exist? Beyond being some kind of corporate
>> vanity project started by Bill Gates after Sun gave him a good hiding
>> over his attempts to hijack Java?
> 
>    There is NO really good reason for C++
>
There is a logic to using that form of model to structure code lexically 
for certain foirms of problems

There is little real argument for building a language that virtually 
enforces it

>    Yea, yea, it's "object" - but in C you
>    don't REALLY need that.
> 
You can do most of it using local [static] variables in file that 
describe an 'object'  whose functions are all static except one, so you 
get 'object oriented programming' without the idiocy of C++ syntax. I 
use this sometimes with straight 'C' to modularise stuff.


Of course you don't get the syntax or the operator overloading, but I 
regard that as a bonus

-- 
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's 
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

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#93811

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
Message-ID<11asmmn$33n8m$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93798
On 16/10/2026 05:53, Peyton wrote:
> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
> script.
>


> Not having basic CS fundamentals does have real implications in
> everyday software.

That's is not  'CS fundamentals', That is basic software engineering.

Like running MSDOS through a hardware emulator and counting the number 
of code instructions between pressing a key and the letter appearing on 
the screen, and comparing it with CP/M

And concluding that it must have been written by computer scientists

-- 
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

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#93982

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
Message-ID<6ad33478$0$28048$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#93798
Le 16-10-2026, Peyton <peyton@solacium.us> a écrit :
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
>
>> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote:
>>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most
>>> programmers, both professional and amateur alike.  While
>>> "vibe coding" is all the rage, a silent disaster is also
>>> creeping.
>>
>>   99+ percent of us got by just fine without
>>   any "computer science" crapola.
>>
>>   CS is all math/stats. Has almost nothing to
>>   do with the real-world these days. Maybe in
>>   the 1940s .......
>>
>>   Might, MAYBE, produce a useful idea, every,
>>   very, once in awhile.
>>
> I one time worked with a colleague who did not understand why a C#
> binary executable was running significantly faster than a Python
> script.
>
> Not having basic CS fundamentals does have real implications in
> everyday software. 

But updating ones fundamentals can't harm. Now, there are almost no more
interpreted scripts. Scripts, like python, are compiled when they are
launched. So the difference is not interpreted vs. compiled but more
about the quality of the compiler. And python compiler is pretty bad,
mostly when things can run in parallel.

And I strongly believe that if the python script was significantly
slower than the C# one, it was more related with multithreading than
with interpreted slowness.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#93985

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
Message-ID<11avcvt$59n$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93982
On 17/10/2026 09:40, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Now, there are almost no more
> interpreted scripts.

PHP...

-- 
    "Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have 
forgotten your aim."

  George Santayana

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#94087

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
Message-ID<11b0ms8$iems$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93982
On 17 Oct 2026 08:40:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Now, there are almost no more interpreted scripts.

Shell scripts are still interpreted. Not only that, but the shell
actually seeks through the source file to do a transfer of control.

How do I know this? Try making changes to the script while it is
running. ;)

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#94089

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
Message-ID<11b0pbe$3pvda$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94087
On 2026-10-17 22:47, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2026 08:40:24 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> 
>> Now, there are almost no more interpreted scripts.
> 
> Shell scripts are still interpreted. Not only that, but the shell
> actually seeks through the source file to do a transfer of control.
> 
> How do I know this? Try making changes to the script while it is
> running. ;)

I've just done this ("a script change while it's running") [*]
(with ksh and bash) and there was no change in behavior of the
running script.

You may want to provide an example what you've actually done
to come to that conclusion (or reformulate your conclusion).

BTW; I've in other (more complex?) contexts observed that some
intrusions (tackling the shell program while it runs) do affect
the running script, but back then I haven't examined the reason
or circumstances of that effect, or whether it's some effect of
an interaction with the OS. - So the principle question, what
exactly happens in what circumstances, is still interesting.

Janis

[*] What I've done was to run the following script "dynchg.sh"

   while read ; do
       echo $REPLY
   done

and change it (from another terminal) while it runs by

   sed -i '2p' dynchg.sh

I could even remove that file from the directory and it still
processes data as expected. And there's also no difference if
that program is explicitly run with the interpreter or running
it using a shebang interpreter as executable script.

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#93800

FromTapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-16 05:29 +0000
Message-ID<11ascn8$312c3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93794
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 00:00:58 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote:
>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most programmers,
>> both professional and amateur alike.  While "vibe coding" is all the
>> rage, a silent disaster is also creeping.
> 
>    99+ percent of us got by just fine without any "computer science"
>    crapola.

"Got by just fine" at doing _what_, exactly?

The state of software would make one think that very few people are 
"getting by just fine", incidentally...

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#93822

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-10-16 10:07 +0100
Message-ID<11asph1$33n8m$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93800
On 16/10/2026 06:29, Tapiro Ubriaco wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 00:00:58 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> On 10/15/26 23:26, Leroy H wrote:
>>> It is amazing how knowledge of basic CS is absent in most programmers,
>>> both professional and amateur alike.  While "vibe coding" is all the
>>> rage, a silent disaster is also creeping.
>>
>>     99+ percent of us got by just fine without any "computer science"
>>     crapola.
> 
> "Got by just fine" at doing _what_, exactly?
> 
> The state of software would make one think that very few people are
> "getting by just fine", incidentally...

That is because software development teams don't bother with the most 
basic elements of quality control.

Largely because computer science doesn't teach it

It is however a major part in the degree course in *software engineering*.

Computers science is not what you think it is. What you think it is, is 
actually called software engineering.

A PRACTICAL discipline teaching how to write good code, test it and 
manage teams of people effectively and break projects into manageable 
chunks that can be offloaded to separate teams of individuals, tested 
and quality inspected, and integrated into te final product
=====================================================

Software Engineering Tutorial
Last Updated : 13 Aug, 2026

"Software Engineering is the systematic process of designing, 
developing, testing, and maintaining software to create reliable, 
efficient, and high-quality applications.

It applies engineering principles, methods, and tools to develop 
software in a systematic manner.

  It supports teamwork, planning, documentation, testing, and 
maintenance to ensure successful software development throughout its 
lifecycle.

  It helps create software that meets user requirements while ensuring 
reliability, security, efficiency, and maintainability."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Computer Science

Key Concepts in Programming & Problem Solving

Algorithms: Step-by-step instructions or logic rules designed to solve a 
specific problem or complete a task.

Data Structures: Specialized formats for organizing and storing data 
efficiently, such as arrays, linked lists, stacks, queues, and trees.

Programming Languages: Tools like Python, C++, and Java that let humans 
write code in readable text, which is then translated into 
machine-executable binary. You can explore structured guides through 
platforms like Codecademy or introductory breakdowns on Boot.dev.

  Control Flow: The order in which individual instructions, conditional 
statements (if/else), and loops (for/while) execute in a program"

Now decide which you would rather have in your team of application 
developers.


-- 
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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#93828

FromTapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-16 09:28 +0000
Message-ID<11asqn0$31lan$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#93822
On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 10:07:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> That is because software development teams don't bother with the most 
> basic elements of quality control.
> 
> Largely because computer science doesn't teach it

And why should it, being... computer science? 
It has, and should not have, more than a passing interest in industrial 
applications.

It can at best, and it does, teach you what properties of a program are 
provable and give you a theoretical framework for correctness.

And you're clearly not gonna formally prove your web app, you use those to 
prove the avionics at AirBUS or other mission critical systems.

And they actually do! IIRC the Astree static analyzer was commissioned by 
AirBUS itself.

And, again IIRC, funnily the end users are old timer plane designers who 
don't understand code, so as far as I'm aware they design the avionics 
with a point&click thing which then outputs code which is _then_ verified 
vs. specs.

The kind of thing Boeing neglected to do lately, see: 737 MAX.

> It is however a major part in the degree course in *software
> engineering*.

As it should be.
 
> Computers science is not what you think it is.

Funnily, I have a degree in computer science.

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