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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #93793 > unrolled thread

Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI

Started byLeroy H <lh@somewhere.net>
First post2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
Last post2026-10-18 10:59 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 645 — 45 participants

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Contents

  Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 03:26 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 00:00 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 04:33 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 21:53 -0700
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 01:31 -0400
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:49 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:53 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 05:26 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:29 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:31 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:16 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:42 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:44 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:55 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:20 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:20 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:09 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:54 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:15 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:05 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 16:46 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:57 +0000
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 19:01 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 14:48 -0700
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Harold Stevens <wookie@bookworm.localdomain> - 2026-10-17 08:26 -0500
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:01 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:19 -0700
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 22:11 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:30 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:48 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:12 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:40 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:17 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:30 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:54 +0100
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 19:56 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:00 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 04:32 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:13 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:38 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:58 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 15:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:23 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:37 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:02 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:43 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 20:11 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:53 +0200
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:12 +0200
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 13:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 15:35 +0200
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 14:04 +0000
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 16:24 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:50 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:04 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:17 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 17:33 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:26 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:19 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:39 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:58 -0400
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:55 +0100
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:43 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:03 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:39 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-23 18:31 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:17 -0400
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 02:20 +0000
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:58 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 03:33 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 09:06 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-17 06:37 -0400
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 11:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:20 +0200
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:50 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:48 +0100
                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 15:09 -0700
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 09:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 13:37 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:56 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-21 14:23 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:22 +0100
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:04 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 10:54 -0700
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:07 +0100
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 14:02 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 15:17 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:07 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 11:49 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 15:09 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:08 +0100
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-22 10:37 -0700
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 19:29 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:04 -0700
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-22 02:04 +0000
                                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 10:51 +0200
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 14:18 +0100
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:15 +0100
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 17:33 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 02:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:16 +0100
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:26 +0000
                                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 11:46 -0700
                                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 09:01 -0700
                                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 20:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:27 +0100
                                                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:23 +0000
                                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-20 19:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:25 +0200
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-20 02:48 +0100
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-20 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 19:04 +0000
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:27 +0200
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:08 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:18 +0000
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:33 +0000
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-21 03:22 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 01:25 +0000
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                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-24 00:47 -0400
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:09 +0100
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-21 19:06 +0000
                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 08:09 +0100
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                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-22 12:35 +0200
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                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-22 15:59 +0100
                                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-22 13:48 +0200
                                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 07:08 -0400
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                                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-22 17:52 +0000
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          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:16 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:45 +0000
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                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 23:43 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:31 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-18 05:00 -0400
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 03:56 +0000
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                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:22 +0000
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                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:58 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 20:07 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:41 +0000
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:27 +0100
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                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:15 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:41 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:00 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:57 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:26 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:42 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:14 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:07 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:20 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:26 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:32 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:21 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 04:04 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:24 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:27 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:20 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 01:13 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:32 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 03:04 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:41 +0100
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:45 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 16:05 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:25 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 20:19 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:24 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:16 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-17 22:53 +0200
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 06:02 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Peyton" <peyton@solacium.us> - 2026-10-15 23:26 -0700
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 06:42 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 07:41 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 06:39 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 04:22 -0400
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:54 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:19 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 08:40 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:52 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:47 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-17 23:29 +0200
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-10-19 17:18 -0300
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@erine.email> - 2026-10-21 00:54 +0200
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-23 18:50 +0200
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-23 23:59 -0400
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 11:53 +0200
                      Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-24 12:10 +0000
                        Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-24 18:53 +0200
                          Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:28 -0400
                            Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:20 +0100
                              Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:38 -0400
                                Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 05:01 +0100
                                  Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-27 12:24 -0400
                                    [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 01:12 +0100
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 05:26 -0400
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-28 19:33 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:19 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-29 12:27 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:40 -0400
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:24 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-30 23:10 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-31 04:14 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:40 +0100
                                                    Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 10:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-31 13:11 +0000
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-31 22:41 +0000
                                                          Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:31 +0100
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-11-01 20:50 +0000
                                                      Re: Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:27 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-31 14:11 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:57 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 19:56 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 22:11 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:18 -0500
                                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:22 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:59 +0100
                                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-01 17:50 +0100
                                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) FF <fflud@linux.rocks> - 2026-11-01 18:09 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:32 +0100
                                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:26 +0100
                                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:57 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 02:17 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:22 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:24 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:49 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:28 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:36 +0000
                                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:29 +0000
                                                        Internal navigation in the online manual (was: Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-01 01:08 +0000
                                                          Re: Internal navigation in the online manual "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:03 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-11-01 10:58 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:27 +0000
                                                    Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:57 +0000
                                                      Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 13:07 +0100
                                                        Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 22:32 +0000
                                                          Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:35 +0100
                                                            Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-02 23:22 +0000
                                                              Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 03:02 +0100
                                                                Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:50 +0000
                                                                  Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:28 +0100
                                                                    Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:14 +0000
                                                              Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:18 -0500
                                                            Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
                                                              Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:31 +0100
                                                                Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:32 +0000
                                                                  Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:51 +0100
                                                      Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:40 +0000
                                                      Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:49 -0800
                                                        Re: man pages (was Re: [OT] Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:31 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-28 17:01 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-28 18:18 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-10-28 23:28 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-29 00:11 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 00:46 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-28 22:36 -0400
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 09:13 -0700
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-29 18:13 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:00 -0400
                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 17:37 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-10-29 20:01 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-29 21:18 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-29 21:40 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:58 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> - 2026-10-30 15:14 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 00:09 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 04:33 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-30 11:10 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-30 17:52 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-30 17:14 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 18:26 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-30 19:25 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-30 20:12 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:07 -0400
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
                                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
                                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
                                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
                                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
                                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
                                                            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
                                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
                                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-11-02 17:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:25 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:42 +0800
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:40 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
                                                                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
                                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:07 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
                                                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
                                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
                                                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
                                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:49 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 16:42 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 20:08 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:20 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-01 12:19 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:42 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Punch card times "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-31 11:57 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-31 18:53 +0000
                                                    Re: [OT] Punch card times Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:48 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-29 23:48 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 04:27 -0400
                                              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-30 03:58 -0400
                        Re: Taking Speedy too seriously (Was: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 00:57 -0400
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-24 13:41 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-24 21:31 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-24 22:36 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-25 23:49 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:04 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:15 -0400
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 04:42 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-24 12:06 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-25 23:59 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-26 06:41 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-26 03:50 -0400
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 02:44 +0100
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 15:16 -0700
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-10-27 02:26 +0100
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 05:29 +0000
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 10:07 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 09:28 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:26 +0100
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 10:56 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 12:40 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:46 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:39 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:48 +0000
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:16 +0100
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 08:51 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 11:04 +0100
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 11:13 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 13:03 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:26 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-16 15:21 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 15:07 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-16 21:26 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-17 01:55 +0000
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:07 -0400
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:28 +0100
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Tapiro Ubriaco <interwebs.dude@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 12:35 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:09 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-10-16 16:37 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-16 19:51 +0000
    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 11:44 -0400
      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 16:14 +0000
        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-16 17:10 +0000
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 17:56 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 18:10 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-10-16 18:32 +0000
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:52 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-16 22:19 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 02:28 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-17 01:52 -0400
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 09:37 -0700
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 09:11 +0100
          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-16 21:50 +0000
            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-16 19:39 -0400
              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 09:43 +0000
                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:02 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 15:06 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:15 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 19:55 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:33 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:38 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:08 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 19:51 +0000
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 17:36 +0200
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:12 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-17 20:05 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 22:35 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 09:12 +0100
                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-17 16:46 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 19:01 +0200
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-17 19:08 +0200
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:07 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:22 +0000
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:29 +0100
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-10-18 09:33 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:59 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-18 12:09 +0100
                    Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-17 20:42 +0000
                      Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 01:54 +0000
                        Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:11 +0200
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 12:38 +0200
                          Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-18 20:01 +0000
                            Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-18 22:25 +0200
                              Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-19 03:19 +0000
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 21:48 -0700
                                Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-19 11:29 +0200
                                  Re: Back To CS Basics. Fuck AI Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-19 17:29 +0100
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#95017 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromPeter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11ccrfk$3r5mg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95010
On 11/3/26 06:26, David Wade wrote:
> On 03/11/2026 12:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-11-03 12:49, Pancho wrote:
>>> On 11/3/26 11:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>>
>>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>>
>>>> What it is exactly they do, I don't know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm too young for mainframes, but I always assumed they were for 
>>> running legacy systems that people couldn't be bothered to port to 
>>> new hardware/ architectures.
>>>
>>> FWIW, my guess is that "high i/o" and "very large" is only by the 
>>> standards of mainframe programmers.
>>
>> No, it is really high i/o and very large databases. I saw some figures 
>> once and they were impressive.
>>
> 
> IBM built a lot of intelligence into the IO subsystem. There are 
> multiple IO processors, once known as channels, which move data to and 
> from devices. They are controlled by a channel program which can perform 
> multiple IOs so a single IO request can read or write multiple blocks of 
> data from a tape or disk to or from different locations in memory with 
> the main CPU only getting involved when they are all complete.
> 
> So I don't know if this happens in practice but in theory if you want to 
> page out one chunk of store and page in another you can do that with a 
> single IO request.

Lynne Wheeler could probably comment on this better than I, but I think 
that for years now (decades?) paging subsystems have been optimized to 
handle several operations in one I/O request.

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#95020 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkuikpFeeegU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#95010
On 2026-11-03 14:26, David Wade wrote:
> On 03/11/2026 12:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-11-03 12:49, Pancho wrote:
>>> On 11/3/26 11:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>>
>>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>>
>>>> What it is exactly they do, I don't know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm too young for mainframes, but I always assumed they were for 
>>> running legacy systems that people couldn't be bothered to port to 
>>> new hardware/ architectures.
>>>
>>> FWIW, my guess is that "high i/o" and "very large" is only by the 
>>> standards of mainframe programmers.
>>
>> No, it is really high i/o and very large databases. I saw some figures 
>> once and they were impressive.
>>
> 
> IBM built a lot of intelligence into the IO subsystem. There are 
> multiple IO processors, once known as channels, which move data to and 
> from devices. They are controlled by a channel program which can perform 
> multiple IOs so a single IO request can read or write multiple blocks of 
> data from a tape or disk to or from different locations in memory with 
> the main CPU only getting involved when they are all complete.
> 
> So I don't know if this happens in practice but in theory if you want to 
> page out one chunk of store and page in another you can do that with a 
> single IO request.
> 
> Just to tweak things a bit further, if you have multiple disks, 
> controlled by a single controller, the controller can process multiple 
> IO requests. To optimise this it also has Rotational Position Sensing so 
> it can optimise the order in which they are processed.
> 
> Modern machines, of course use Fibre to connect the IO devices but back 
> in the day all this was connected via Bus and Tag channels which ran at 
> 4Mbytes/sec, so 32Mbits with no contention.
> 
> Oh and for terminal IO the link to the screen runs at 1.5MBits/sec so 
> rather faster than any minicomputer link.
> 
> of course this complexity cam at a cost...

And extra cost by ensuring it is reliable.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#95040 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdl3c$63m2$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95020
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 18:06:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> And extra cost by ensuring it is reliable.

Very expensive way of ensuring reliability. Google ensures reliability
by running (as of a count in a paper published a decade or two ago)
about half a million servers. So, at any moment, a dozen or a hundred
of them are down; so what? The customers don’t notice.

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#95039 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdl0f$63m2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95010
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 13:26:01 +0000, David Wade wrote:

> IBM built a lot of intelligence into the IO subsystem. There are
> multiple IO processors, once known as channels, which move data to
> and from devices. They are controlled by a channel program which can
> perform multiple IOs so a single IO request can read or write
> multiple blocks of data from a tape or disk to or from different
> locations in memory with the main CPU only getting involved when
> they are all complete.

All about high throughput, at the expense of high latency.

Also there was this assumption that CPU power was scarce and
expensive, so the more the I/O devices could manage on their own
without bothering the CPU, the better.

This model stopped making sense in the 1980s.

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#95014 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11ccr4q$3ql8a$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95008
On 03/11/2026 12:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-11-03 12:49, Pancho wrote:
>> On 11/3/26 11:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>
>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>
>>> What it is exactly they do, I don't know.
>>>
>>
>> I'm too young for mainframes, but I always assumed they were for 
>> running legacy systems that people couldn't be bothered to port to new 
>> hardware/ architectures.
>>
>> FWIW, my guess is that "high i/o" and "very large" is only by the 
>> standards of mainframe programmers.
> 
> No, it is really high i/o and very large databases. I saw some figures 
> once and they were impressive.
> 
+1

TTT Trillions of Trivial Transactions ...

-- 
“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

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#95012 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11ccr33$3ql8a$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95006
On 03/11/2026 11:49, Pancho wrote:
> On 11/3/26 11:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>
>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>
>> What it is exactly they do, I don't know.
>>
> 
> I'm too young for mainframes, but I always assumed they were for running 
> legacy systems that people couldn't be bothered to port to new 
> hardware/architectures.
> 
> FWIW, my guess is that "high i/o" and "very large" is only by the 
> standards of mainframe programmers.

You would guess wrong then
Think about the number of people a second swiping their cards or 
applePay wotsits across terminals...
Each transaction is trivial: post a debit, with details of where the 
debt is incurred, and check against customer balance and overdraft 
limits, and issue - or deny - authorisation,
But you are talking millions per second. All of which demand instant 
response. All of which access centralised databases that cant be split 
across machines




-- 
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

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#95046 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdmed$3jp2i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95012
On 11/3/26 14:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/11/2026 11:49, Pancho wrote:
>> On 11/3/26 11:45, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>
>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>
>>> What it is exactly they do, I don't know.
>>>
>>
>> I'm too young for mainframes, but I always assumed they were for 
>> running legacy systems that people couldn't be bothered to port to new 
>> hardware/architectures.
>>
>> FWIW, my guess is that "high i/o" and "very large" is only by the 
>> standards of mainframe programmers.
> 
> You would guess wrong then
> Think about the number of people a second swiping their cards or 
> applePay wotsits across terminals...
> Each transaction is trivial: post a debit, with details of where the 
> debt is incurred, and check against customer balance and overdraft 
> limits, and issue - or deny - authorisation,
> But you are talking millions per second. All of which demand instant 
> response. All of which access centralised databases that cant be split 
> across machines
> 



Traditional banking transactions almost certainly could be parallelised, 
to quite a high degree, whether they were or not, I don't know. They are 
nowadays.

My impression was the old software worked reliably, throwing more modern 
hardware at it was the cheapest solution... But there are better ways to 
do things. Modern companies like Stripe, will be using the same modern 
hardware as everyone else. I can't see why financial transactions are a 
heavier burden than other computing transactions, webservers.

If you want heavy usage, I would guess bank risk calcs, weather calcs, 
lots of science applications, running on compute grids, (or whatever the 
modern word is), blow this mainframe high i/o away.

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#95049 — Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdo9b$1qa8$2@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#95046
According to Pancho  <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>:
>>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me 
>>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>>
>>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>> ...

>Traditional banking transactions almost certainly could be parallelised, 
>to quite a high degree, whether they were or not, I don't know. They are 
>nowadays.

Only up to a point. Making the read part of databases run in parallel
is easy. Making the write part is not.

If you have $100 in your bank account, and two $75 debit transactions
arrive at the same time, if the result is anything other than that one
succeeded and the other failed*, your bank has a problem.  The reason they
need very fast very large databases is that updates have to be serialized
and there's no way to make them faster than the underlying system.  Same
for airlines allocating seats and any other database reflecting a real world
application where there's a finite amount of something to be parcelled out.



* - yes I know about overdrafts, this is an example
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#95056 — Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdq3l$1g9ud$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95049
On 11/3/26 22:47, John Levine wrote:
> According to Pancho  <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>:
>>>>> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me
>>>>> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>>>>>
>>>>> They need high i/o with very large databases.
>>>>> ...
> 
>> Traditional banking transactions almost certainly could be parallelised,
>> to quite a high degree, whether they were or not, I don't know. They are
>> nowadays.
> 
> Only up to a point. Making the read part of databases run in parallel
> is easy. Making the write part is not.
> 
> If you have $100 in your bank account, and two $75 debit transactions
> arrive at the same time, if the result is anything other than that one
> succeeded and the other failed*, your bank has a problem.  The reason they
> need very fast very large databases is that updates have to be serialized
> and there's no way to make them faster than the underlying system.  Same
> for airlines allocating seats and any other database reflecting a real world
> application where there's a finite amount of something to be parcelled out.
> 
> 
> 
> * - yes I know about overdrafts, this is an example

Erm, yep, sequential transactions on my account, but why does everyone 
else's account need to be on the same database/compute server as my 
account? If A and B are doing a transaction, that has nothing to do with 
me, it can be done in parallel.

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#95033 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdg7h$46jl$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95005
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 12:45:09 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I know at least one guy working on IBM mainframes, and he tells me
> they are in high need of good assembler programmers.
>
> They need high i/o with very large databases.

Something not quite right there. Hand-coded assembly language only
makes sense for minimizing CPU usage. If you’re doing lots of I/O,
then the CPU is not the bottleneck, so trying to hand-tune assembly
code is a waste of time.

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#94963 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cb55p$2e740$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94928
On 2026-11-02 12:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 02/11/2026 08:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>    WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM
>>>    mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with
>>>    them, but they'd be SO cool !
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have -
>> and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow
>> in memories.
>>
>>>    Anyway they do
>>>    have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big
>>>    industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'.
>>
>> Hmm.. - "need" - really?
>>
>> During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes
>> to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes
>> had been running were almost empty then. It was just more
>> economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly,
>> as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm
>> not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs
>> of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less
>> required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors.
>>
>> Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running
>> a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for
>> "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its
>> TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students
>> for the scientific oriented departments.
>>
> Yes. The transition from mainframe, to Unix clusters and then to blade 
> servers shrunk machine rooms to almost nothing, amnd high speed internet 
> moved them to cloud centres
> 
>> The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial
>> business area, where they were still running their legacy
>> software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate,
>> or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old
>> machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get
>> spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate
>> them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may
>> have meanwhile changed even in that business area.)
>>
> That's not quite true.

What specifically are you referring to here?
That I observed mainframes still in use in commercial contexts?
Or my speculation that this might meanwhile have changed?
Or that the reason for not having done a change was something else?

I've worked in several business areas were mainframes had been used.
* The computing centers I was aware of changed their architectures
   from mainframe architectures to clusters.
* The telcos down-scaled the [amount of] metal, yet increased their
   throughput by switching away from mainframes. They made the change
   because they also needed a lot contemporary new functions supported
   and it was far too costly and much more effort to do that on legacy
   mainframe hardware.
* The business area I worked in where there were still running some
   mainframes did so primarily because of the mentioned reasons. That
   was 20 years ago, so that's the reason why I said that things "may"
   have meanwhile changed. If they need to runs (similar to the telcos)
   significant amounts of new functions they have to do the calculation
   whether it pays to do that on the old systems. And they have to take
   into consideration whether they have (or can find) programmers for
   old legacy languages as far as the legacy software is concerned; two
   decades ago we didn't find any COBOL programmers for those tasks and
   I'd expect that the situation got even worse meanwhile.
* Most (all?) internet providers I've heard of aren't using mainframes
   but built their systems architecture based on (often Linux-)clusters.

There must be reasons to change a running mainframe system. As said,
such a transition process can be risky and is costly (without instant
gain of any new functions). The reasons I've heard from the financial
sectors, i.e. not to switch, were exactly those.

I'm also a bit astonished about your mention of using mainframes for
efficient I/O. Networking clusters appear to me to be much better able
than a single mainframe instance. The older mainframe architectures we
used also had a lot of peripheral processors to specifically handle
the I/O.

(But of course I can, as I did, just report about the (certainly non-
singular) cases I was involved in or heard from reliable sources.)

Janis

> [...]

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#94975 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<qG2dnU1Og6OE3nT3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#94963
On 11/2/26 18:08, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-11-02 12:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 02/11/2026 08:41, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> On 2026-11-02 07:28, c186282 wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>    WOULD love one or two of those big black IBM
>>>>    mainframe units. Not sure what I'd DO with
>>>>    them, but they'd be SO cool !
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> There's a couple hardware types I'd have liked to have -
>>> and I'd also not know what to do with them but to wallow
>>> in memories.
>>>
>>>>    Anyway they do
>>>>    have plenty of customers - govt/uni and big
>>>>    industry. Sometimes you NEED a 'mainframe'.
>>>
>>> Hmm.. - "need" - really?
>>>
>>> During the 1990's we switched our big telcos from mainframes
>>> to Unix servers. The huge sports halls where the mainframes
>>> had been running were almost empty then. It was just more
>>> economic to run Unix servers (mainframe support was costly,
>>> as was just running them), also more ecologic (though I'm
>>> not sure that this mattered that much in practice, but costs
>>> of electricity might have been an issue), and the much less
>>> required physical space as said. Basically all cost factors.
>>>
>>> Also computing centers switched. Our LRZ, formerly running
>>> a CDC 175, is meanwhile running various Unix clusters for
>>> "super computing". Our university also said goodbye to its
>>> TR440 and is providing mainly Linux systems to its students
>>> for the scientific oriented departments.
>>>
>> Yes. The transition from mainframe, to Unix clusters and then to blade 
>> servers shrunk machine rooms to almost nothing, amnd high speed 
>> internet moved them to cloud centres
>>
>>> The only "need" for a mainframe I observed in some financial
>>> business area, where they were still running their legacy
>>> software on mainframes obviously with "no chance" to migrate,
>>> or not wanting to take the risk and cost (as long as the old
>>> machinery is doing its task). But it's also difficult to get
>>> spares, and to find people who can and are willing to operate
>>> them. (But that information is now a bit dated and things may
>>> have meanwhile changed even in that business area.)
>>>
>> That's not quite true.
> 
> What specifically are you referring to here?
> That I observed mainframes still in use in commercial contexts?
> Or my speculation that this might meanwhile have changed?
> Or that the reason for not having done a change was something else?
> 
> I've worked in several business areas were mainframes had been used.
> * The computing centers I was aware of changed their architectures
>    from mainframe architectures to clusters.
> * The telcos down-scaled the [amount of] metal, yet increased their
>    throughput by switching away from mainframes. They made the change
>    because they also needed a lot contemporary new functions supported
>    and it was far too costly and much more effort to do that on legacy
>    mainframe hardware.
> * The business area I worked in where there were still running some
>    mainframes did so primarily because of the mentioned reasons. That
>    was 20 years ago, so that's the reason why I said that things "may"
>    have meanwhile changed. If they need to runs (similar to the telcos)
>    significant amounts of new functions they have to do the calculation
>    whether it pays to do that on the old systems. And they have to take
>    into consideration whether they have (or can find) programmers for
>    old legacy languages as far as the legacy software is concerned; two
>    decades ago we didn't find any COBOL programmers for those tasks and
>    I'd expect that the situation got even worse meanwhile.
> * Most (all?) internet providers I've heard of aren't using mainframes
>    but built their systems architecture based on (often Linux-)clusters.
> 
> There must be reasons to change a running mainframe system. As said,
> such a transition process can be risky and is costly (without instant
> gain of any new functions). The reasons I've heard from the financial
> sectors, i.e. not to switch, were exactly those.
> 
> I'm also a bit astonished about your mention of using mainframes for
> efficient I/O. Networking clusters appear to me to be much better able
> than a single mainframe instance. The older mainframe architectures we
> used also had a lot of peripheral processors to specifically handle
> the I/O.
> 
> (But of course I can, as I did, just report about the (certainly non-
> singular) cases I was involved in or heard from reliable sources.)
> 
> Janis
> 
>> [...]
> 

   "Mainframes" do still have their places - major
   computing/comm performance. Govt, science, big
   international biz.

   This may change sooner or later - all replaced
   by 'cluster' and "Global AI".

   But not yet.

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#95018 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<sSmGS.36642$8SW5.33648@fx40.iad>
In reply to#94975
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
>On 11/2/26 18:08, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 2026-11-02 12:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> 
>> I'm also a bit astonished about your mention of using mainframes for
>> efficient I/O. Networking clusters appear to me to be much better able
>> than a single mainframe instance. The older mainframe architectures we
>> used also had a lot of peripheral processors to specifically handle
>> the I/O.
>> 
>> (But of course I can, as I did, just report about the (certainly non-
>> singular) cases I was involved in or heard from reliable sources.)
>> 
>> Janis
>> 
>>> [...]
>> 
>
>   "Mainframes" do still have their places - major
>   computing/comm performance. Govt, science, big
>   international biz.

Actually, the numbers decline every year.   The vast
majority are legacy installations (particularly for the
Burroughs/Univac/Unisys mainframes) and there are very
few, if any, new customers adopting mainframes of any
flavor.

>
>   This may change sooner or later - all replaced
>   by 'cluster' and "Global AI".

Clusters were two decades ago.  Today it is all
virtualization, particularly in the cloud.

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#95031 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdg33$47sq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95018
On 03/11/2026 15:13, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Actually, the numbers decline every year.   The vast majority are
> legacy installations (particularly for the Burroughs/Univac/Unisys
> mainframes) and there are very few, if any, new customers adopting
> mainframes of any flavor.

"Global mainframe market size and IBM Z mainframe revenue trends
highlight a cyclical pattern dominated by multi-year refresh waves (such
as the z16 and z17 cycles):

Global Mainframe Market Size:

         Valued at approximately $5.33 billion to $5.71 billion in 2025.
         Projected to grow to $5.65 billion to $6.11 billion in 2026.
         Forecasted to reach $7.54 billion to $10.53 billion by
2031–2034, driven by a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of roughly
5.95% to 7.05%.

IBM Z Mainframe Performance & Fluctuations:
         Late 2025 (z17 Launch / Q4): IBM reported its strongest Q4
mainframe revenue in 20 years, with IBM Z sales surging 67%
year-over-year as enterprises adopted the z17 architecture.
         Mid-2026 (Q2): IBM Z mainframe revenue experienced a short-term
42% year-over-year decline in fiscal Q2 2026 due to delayed large
capital expenditure (capex) deals and client shifts toward
supply-constrained servers, though management noted these were deferred
purchases rather than lost contracts (with roughly one-third closing
shortly after the quarter)."

So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident 
armchair experts


-- 
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

    - Leo Tolstoy

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#95038 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<lusGS.39243$p_X5.14705@fx39.iad>
In reply to#95031
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>On 03/11/2026 15:13, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Actually, the numbers decline every year.   The vast majority are
>> legacy installations (particularly for the Burroughs/Univac/Unisys
>> mainframes) and there are very few, if any, new customers adopting
>> mainframes of any flavor.
>
>"Global mainframe market size and IBM Z mainframe revenue trends
>highlight a cyclical pattern dominated by multi-year refresh waves (such
>as the z16 and z17 cycles):
>
>Global Mainframe Market Size:
>
>         Valued at approximately $5.33 billion to $5.71 billion in 2025.
>         Projected to grow to $5.65 billion to $6.11 billion in 2026.
>         Forecasted to reach $7.54 billion to $10.53 billion by
>2031–2034, driven by a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of roughly
>5.95% to 7.05%.
>
>IBM Z Mainframe Performance & Fluctuations:
>         Late 2025 (z17 Launch / Q4): IBM reported its strongest Q4
>mainframe revenue in 20 years, with IBM Z sales surging 67%
>year-over-year as enterprises adopted the z17 architecture.
>         Mid-2026 (Q2): IBM Z mainframe revenue experienced a short-term
>42% year-over-year decline in fiscal Q2 2026 due to delayed large
>capital expenditure (capex) deals and client shifts toward
>supply-constrained servers, though management noted these were deferred
>purchases rather than lost contracts (with roughly one-third closing
>shortly after the quarter)."
>
>So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident 
>armchair experts

Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
customers, not new customers.

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#95043 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

From"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<nkv3t9FeeegU13@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#95038
On 2026-11-03 22:37, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> On 03/11/2026 15:13, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Actually, the numbers decline every year.   The vast majority are
>>> legacy installations (particularly for the Burroughs/Univac/Unisys
>>> mainframes) and there are very few, if any, new customers adopting
>>> mainframes of any flavor.
>>
>> "Global mainframe market size and IBM Z mainframe revenue trends
>> highlight a cyclical pattern dominated by multi-year refresh waves (such
>> as the z16 and z17 cycles):
>>
>> Global Mainframe Market Size:
>>
>>          Valued at approximately $5.33 billion to $5.71 billion in 2025.
>>          Projected to grow to $5.65 billion to $6.11 billion in 2026.
>>          Forecasted to reach $7.54 billion to $10.53 billion by
>> 2031–2034, driven by a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of roughly
>> 5.95% to 7.05%.
>>
>> IBM Z Mainframe Performance & Fluctuations:
>>          Late 2025 (z17 Launch / Q4): IBM reported its strongest Q4
>> mainframe revenue in 20 years, with IBM Z sales surging 67%
>> year-over-year as enterprises adopted the z17 architecture.
>>          Mid-2026 (Q2): IBM Z mainframe revenue experienced a short-term
>> 42% year-over-year decline in fiscal Q2 2026 due to delayed large
>> capital expenditure (capex) deals and client shifts toward
>> supply-constrained servers, though management noted these were deferred
>> purchases rather than lost contracts (with roughly one-third closing
>> shortly after the quarter)."
>>
>> So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident
>> armchair experts
> 
> Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
> customers, not new customers.

I don't expect new banks, either.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#95047 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdmjs$63m2$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95043
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 23:01:13 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I don't expect new banks, either.

New banks do keep coming along.

<https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/361054511/rbnz-registers-revolut-nzs-first-digi-only-bank>

Also, you think banks don’t use more modern tools, like Python?

Yes, Python. <https://calpaterson.com/bank-python.html>

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#95050 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromDavid Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdohi$4hqr$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95038
On 03/11/2026 21:37, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> On 03/11/2026 15:13, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Actually, the numbers decline every year.   The vast majority are
>>> legacy installations (particularly for the Burroughs/Univac/Unisys
>>> mainframes) and there are very few, if any, new customers adopting
>>> mainframes of any flavor.
>>
>> "Global mainframe market size and IBM Z mainframe revenue trends
>> highlight a cyclical pattern dominated by multi-year refresh waves (such
>> as the z16 and z17 cycles):
>>
>> Global Mainframe Market Size:
>>
>>          Valued at approximately $5.33 billion to $5.71 billion in 2025.
>>          Projected to grow to $5.65 billion to $6.11 billion in 2026.
>>          Forecasted to reach $7.54 billion to $10.53 billion by
>> 2031–2034, driven by a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of roughly
>> 5.95% to 7.05%.
>>
>> IBM Z Mainframe Performance & Fluctuations:
>>          Late 2025 (z17 Launch / Q4): IBM reported its strongest Q4
>> mainframe revenue in 20 years, with IBM Z sales surging 67%
>> year-over-year as enterprises adopted the z17 architecture.
>>          Mid-2026 (Q2): IBM Z mainframe revenue experienced a short-term
>> 42% year-over-year decline in fiscal Q2 2026 due to delayed large
>> capital expenditure (capex) deals and client shifts toward
>> supply-constrained servers, though management noted these were deferred
>> purchases rather than lost contracts (with roughly one-third closing
>> shortly after the quarter)."
>>
>> So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident
>> armchair experts
> 
> Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
> customers, not new customers.

I think all this shows is that IBM is able to force expensive hardware 
refresh by ending support for old machines and old versions of software 
so if you need Payment Card Industry compliance you need supported 
software. I would say most users need PCI compliance so have no choice 
other than to upgrade or migrate and most feel migration will be more 
expensive and carry more risk...

.. mind I seem to remember that the recent price rises in VMWare meant 
that migration from there to Linux on "Z" would be a cost effective move...

Dave

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#95051 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdp62$7e97$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#95050
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 22:51:30 +0000, David Wade wrote:

> I think all this shows is that IBM is able to force expensive
> hardware refresh by ending support for old machines and old versions
> of software so if you need Payment Card Industry compliance you need
> supported software.

I don’t think that’s true. I have hooked up various clients to various
payment systems over the years, and there was never a need for any
particular piece of proprietary software at our end.

(Well, the very first time I looked at a payment system, over a
quarter century ago, SSL/TLS had not yet become popular, and this bank
required a connection via the proprietary “Firewall/1” package, which
only ran on Windows NT/Server. But I never heard back about proceeding
with that, and that kind of thing is ancient history now.)

In fact, the last one I set up, the payment company offered example
code for implementing their protocol in a range of languages. They had
kept things quite simple, while being careful about security, all
credit to them.

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#95052 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cdp6v$1qa8$3@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#95038
According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident 
>>armchair experts
>
>Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
>customers, not new customers.

IBM has two markets for z mainframes, the legacy S/360/370/390 market
and high performance linux servers which they call LinuxONE.

I agree they're not likely to have new legacy customers but I'd be surprised
that they put all that effort into LinuxONE without expecting to get new
customers out of it.  

They just announced that the next generation of z will have a
partnership with ARM so the processors can run ARM64 code as well as
the three legacy 360 modes. That tells me they're trying to get
customers who already have the ARM code running in the cloud at AWS or
Azure.



-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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