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Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late

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  Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 01:09 -0400
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-26 07:22 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 20:37 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:16 +0000
    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:40 +0200
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:10 -0400
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-26 21:24 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:02 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 02:59 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:18 -0400
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Epherma <epherma@remort.app.invalid> - 2026-07-26 20:31 -0700
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 04:35 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:37 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:10 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 19:52 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 15:17 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 16:22 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 11:51 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:25 -0400
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 08:04 -0700
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:09 +0100
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:33 +0100
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:35 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:08 +0200
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 10:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:10 +0200
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:46 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 12:32 -0700
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:47 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:41 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 22:54 +0200
                          Re: Not Much Linux Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:30 +0000
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:42 +0000
                          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-29 23:38 -0400
                            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-30 04:04 +0000
                              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-30 12:33 +0200
                        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-30 12:34 -0400
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 16:07 +0100
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
                Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread (was: Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:48 +0100
                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 17:19 +0100
                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:40 +0000
                      Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:22 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 14:44 -0700
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:37 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 21:47 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 00:24 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 04:23 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 23:46 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:07 +0100
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-29 01:50 +0000
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 07:58 -0700
                              Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:11 +0000
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:16 +0100
                                Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 19:21 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:54 +0200
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:43 +0000
                                  Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 21:36 +0000
                                    Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 23:51 +0000
                            Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 02:32 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-27 17:57 -0400
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 00:03 +0000
                        Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:11 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:38 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:19 +0000
                          Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-07-29 08:19 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 16:11 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:46 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:47 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:45 -0400
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 18:03 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 06:35 +0100
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:12 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 21:07 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:19 -0400
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:08 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 23:19 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 03:30 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 15:07 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-27 15:48 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:27 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-28 01:02 +0000
                      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:10 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:01 -0400
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:37 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:43 +0000
          Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-27 16:22 +0200
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-27 23:07 +0000
            Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 00:10 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:20 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 04:40 +0000
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:00 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 09:37 +0100
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Farley Flud <ff@gnulinux.rocks> - 2026-07-29 18:24 +0000
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:48 +0200
                  Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:29 +0000
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 23:02 -0400
                    Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-29 08:36 +0200
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-28 22:57 -0400
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0200
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:24 +0100
                Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:22 +0000
              Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:16 +0000
      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-26 22:51 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2026-07-26 23:27 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:23 -0400
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 04:42 +0000
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:43 -0400
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:57 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:06 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-07-28 15:22 +0000
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:13 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:17 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:07 +0200
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:15 +0100
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:18 +0000
                        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-29 18:59 +0000
                          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 21:59 +0200
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:15 +0000
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:20 +0100
                      Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:51 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 09:00 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-27 23:47 -0400
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 10:18 +0100
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:11 +0000
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 19:18 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-29 18:23 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 01:10 +0000
        Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-07-27 15:45 +0200
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-07-27 16:16 +0000
          Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 18:24 +0100
            Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 19:55 +0200
              Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 09:59 +0100
                Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:59 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-28 11:25 +0100
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:07 +0000
                    Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-28 22:48 +0200
                  Re: Open-Source Armchair Critics At It Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-28 17:00 +0000
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-27 00:59 +0000
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-27 08:54 +0100
      Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-26 21:08 -0400
        Re: Not Much LINUX Stuff of Late "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-07-27 20:04 +0200

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#89216 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 29 Jul 2026 19:21:36 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 18:11:22 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately, the mainstream distros have all dropped cooledit (it's
>> probably not "modern" enough for their tastes).
> 
> Well, except for the one edit it hasn't seen activity in 4 years. Not so 
> much for applications but when I'm deciding if I will use libfoobar in a 
> project I always check the activity.
> 
> https://github.com/libexpat/libexpat
> 
> I've been using expat almost as long as it's been around and they're still 
> poking at it.  I've never encountered a bug but apparently there is always 
> something to do, mostly security fixes lately. If I saw the hypothetical 
> libfoobar hadn't been touched in 4 years I'd look for alternatives. True, 
> maybe it is so good it hasn't needed work.
>

If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

That tried-and-true aphorism is standard in every engineer's toolbox.

Software does not "age."  If it runs today then it will run forever.

The only problem is that the APIs of any dependencies may change
(although they should never do so).

For example, I use a 25-year-old program that calls routines in
libtiff.  That library was updated and the former API is no longer
valid.  But it's no problem.  Just build the former version of
libtiff and either link it directly or use the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
variable at run time.

However, if one is totally dependent on a distro then this may not
be so simple.

But whatever, software never "dies."  Every GNU project, including
the kernel, has source archives going back to the beginning.

Even GCC maintains source archives.  If a certain program fails
to build with the latest-and-greatest GCC there is no need to
howl and beg for an update.  Just revert to an earlier version
of GCC.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89221 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Wed, 29 Jul 2026 21:36:33 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> If it ain't broke then don't fix it.
> 
> That tried-and-true aphorism is standard in every engineer's toolbox.

I fully agree with that for the most part but I've gotten burned with 
libraries. Of course, I've gotten burned with projects that are very 
actively maintained too. OpenSSL 3.0 ain't OpenSSL 2.0, etc. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89174 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 10:07:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> 
>> But it's not only GTK+ and Qt but also the plethora of other other
>> graphical toolkits, such as Xforms, Fltk, Motif, Tk, etc., that
>> will suffer with the enforced demise of X11.
>> 
> Thank fuck for that.
> 90s cruft, all off it.
> The fact that they all exist shows that X was never a solution by itself
> 

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!  YOU are the only 1990s cruft.

Motif is quite alive and kicking:

<https://github.com/thentenaar/motif>

Furthermore, a lot of critical GNU/Linux programs are based in
Motif, such as GNU ddd (I'll let you find other examples):

<https://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/>

But then you don't do much debugging or even programming for that
matter.  After all, it would seriously detract from your time spent
spewing your ignorant posts on Usenet.

Also, Tcl/Tk is as vibrant as ever and is fundamental in many
GNU/Linux projects (including my own).

These graphical toolkits will remain forever valuable and a cheap
corp such as IBM/RedHat with its cheap agenda to dare limit these
toolkits is a crime against humanity.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#89124 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

rbowman wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>> future.
>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>
> Who controls Qt?

    The Qt Company: Acts as the main commercial driver, holding
    the rights to commercial licenses, setting the roadmap for
    core development, and providing professional tools and quality
    assurance.

    Qt Group Plc: The parent public company headquartered in
    Espoo, Finland, that oversees business operations and
    commercialization.Open Source ContributionThe

    Qt Project: An open-source governance model where individual
    developers and external organizations (such as Intel or KDAB)
    contribute code, review patches, and maintain specific modules
    alongside internal maintainers.

> I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.

I like the C++ wrapper, gtkmm. I forked a project that used that,
and liked that framework.

But when I decided to upgrade the project and provide a Windows
version, I started with another fork that used Qt, because it
seemed like Qt's cross-platform support was a bit better.

That was years ago, and I've gotten used to Qt. (The project can
be built without a GUI and run as a headless app.)

> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
> you wish for.

Gtk is C code, while Qt is C++ code, and is supporting newer C++
constructs such as using lambda functions as slots.

I once wrote an audio player using C, simulating "classes" via
unions.  It was so instructive I never did that again.

-- 
Anything labeled "NEW" and/or "IMPROVED" isn't.  The label means the
price went up.  The label "ALL NEW", "COMPLETELY NEW", or "GREAT NEW"
means the price went way up.

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#89134 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:57:44 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I once wrote an audio player using C, simulating "classes" via unions. 
> It was so instructive I never did that again.

When I look at C++ I envision what it's doing under the hood to provide 
the syntactic sugar. Not pretty. I never cared much for full blown every 
trick in the book C++ and if I use it it looks like C With Classes. For 
that matter the early edition of Stroustrup's book that I have looks about 
the same. 

Esri's API was C++/COM and it took some getting used to 'smart pointers'. 
You start of with 'IFeaturePtr pFeature'. That's pretty straight forward. 
A feature has a geometry, so pFeature->get_Shape(&pGeometry) makes sense. 
And then..

ICurvePtr  pCurve = pGeometry;

WTF? pCurve has a bunch of methods that pGeometry doesn't.

Esri finally switched to C# thankfully.

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#89137 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>> future.
>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>
> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>
> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
> you wish for.

I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my Windows
stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK instead
of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want to have to
rewrite everything in C++.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89140 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 04:11:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux. I'd like to port my
> Windows stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using
> GTK instead of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I
> didn't want to have to rewrite everything in C++.

I’ve been using GTK from Python almost by default. The “GI Repository”
system provides good bindings, for Python and other high-level
languages. I wanted a GUI that had a decent event loop -- i.e.
poll(2)-style event handling, not busy-waiting, so that ruled out
Tkinter.

Currently I have been experimenting a bit with this
<https://pywebview.flowrl.com/>.

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#89166 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 04:11:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+ and
>>> they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the future.
>>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>>
>> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it
>> lately. I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that
>> all start with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>>
>> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of
>> what you wish for.
> 
> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my
> Windows stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK
> instead of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want
> to have to rewrite everything in C++.

Usually if I'm doing GUIs on Linux I use PySide6 (PyQt6) but PyGtk isn't 
bad either. I've recently been playing with straight Gtk. VS Code is a 
little weird, at least of Ubuntu. You need to create a task.json to pick 
up the pkg-config stuff and there are some strange GTK_ environment 
variables that try to pick up nonexistent libs if you try to run the app 
from the Code terminal like 'Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"'. 
Unsetting them solves the problem. In a Konsole terminal only 
'GTK_MODULES=gail:atk-bridge' exists. 

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#89180 — Re: Another XLibre and/or Wayland subthread

Charlie Gibbs wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS (fixed):

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:40:48 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> Well, guess what.  IBM/RedHat controls the development of GTK+
>>> and they will most like pull the plug on X11 compatibility in the
>>> future.
>>> Only Wayland (surprise, surprise) will be supported.
>>
>> Who controls Qt?  I never liked Gtk but I've been playing with it lately. 
>> I still don't like it. Ridiculously long function names that all start 
>> with gtk_ are a pain in the ass.
>>
>> It's ironic Gtk was developed because Qt wasn't 'free'. Be careful of what 
>> you wish for.
>
> I haven't done much GUI programming in Linux.  I'd like to port my Windows
> stuff and I've done some experimenting, but I wound up using GTK instead
> of Qt simply because only GTK has C bindings and I didn't want to have to
> rewrite everything in C++.

Just add wrapper classes.

-- 
"The road to hell is paved with melting snowballs."
		-- Larry Wall in  <1992Jul2.222039.26476@netlabs.com>

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#89106

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 04:42:27 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> 
> I wonder how that works; does anybody come round to your house and
> tell you not to install XLibre? Do cryptic messages pop up on your TV
> or radio every time you think about installing XLibre? Do you find
> your downloads of XLibre mysteriously dropping out? Do you find,
> instead of an XLibre package on your machine, just a text file saying
> “don’t try this again -- or else”?
>

If you didn't have your head firmly up your ass (don't cry little
snowflake) you would be well aware of what is already very old news:

<https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2025-June/059396.html>

<https://linuxiac.com/xlibre-xserver-project-plans-revival-of-x11/>


To explain things simply, GNU/Linux cannot make enough money for
IBM/RedHat if it contains too much variety and choice.  It therefore
*must* be transformed into a monolithic OS with a standard user interface
and standard everything else, just like M$/Apphole.

If you actually *understood* the software that you so willingly mooch
you would also be well aware that this always was, and still is, the
raison detre for systemd.

Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
of GNU/Linux/FOSS.





-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89116

On 27/07/2026 17:11, Farley Flud wrote:
> Your blatant ignorance makes you more of an enemy than a supporter
> of GNU/Linux/FOSS.
Pot Kettle Black
-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#89092

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:

> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>> 
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>> 
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>> loses.
>>
>>
> That's not the overall point though, is it?
> 
> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.

The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that? 

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#89103

On 27 Jul 2026 04:46:09 GMT, rbowman wrote:

>> 
>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
>> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.
> 
> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?
>

They have delivered.  Hurd is functional at this moment.

Why such slow progress?  As is usual, there are too many spectators,
like you, and not enough participants.




-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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#89128

On 7/27/26 00:46, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
> 
>> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>
>>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>>>
>>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>>> loses.
>>>
>>>
>> That's not the overall point though, is it?
>>
>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU project
>> needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or something else.
> 
> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?


   I think early enthusiasm/energy has faded.

   And there's more MONEY in big commercial projects.

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#89164

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 23:45:06 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> On 7/27/26 00:46, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 02:59:44 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>> 
>>> On 27 Jul 2026 01:02:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as
>>>>> the future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of
>>>>> freedom.
>>>>
>>>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>>>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess
>>>> which loses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That's not the overall point though, is it?
>>>
>>> Even though it was not stated it was certainly implied.  The GNU
>>> project needs to develop its own kernel whether it be Hurd or
>>> something else.
>> 
>> The overall point is GNU has not been able to deliver. Why is that?
> 
> 
>    I think early enthusiasm/energy has faded.
> 
>    And there's more MONEY in big commercial projects.

I don't think it's always money. The point made by Raymond, Perens, and 
others early on was if you insist on a purity test that excludes 
commercial enterprises you're cutting yourself off from a considerable 
pool of talent. You can see that with the very short list of FSF 
'approved' distributions. 

Two examples of free and open source framework, bot of which use the very 
permissive MIT license, are Angular and React. Angular was developed at 
Google and React at Meta.

jQuery isn't as clear cut. Resig developed it when he was a student but 
continued to develop it while the Mozilla Corporation was signing his 
paychecks. 

VS Code is a proprietary product developed at Microsoft but Code-OSS is 
open source with the MIT license. The major difference I've found is Code-
OSS has its own extensions repository that doesn't include proprietary MS 
extensions or developers who only placed their products in the MS 
repository.

Remove the contributions by those evil corporations and we'd be back to 
the 20th century.

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#89093

On 27/07/2026 03:59, Farley Flud wrote:
> Only GNU and the FSF can maintain and enforce the concept of free
> and open software.

But only large organisations can *actually realise the implementation* 
of free
and open software.

-- 
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

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#89107

On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>
>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>
> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0 years 
> ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which loses.

Still, with enough guns you can put it off for a while.  But you're
right, reality is like a rubber band.  You can stretch it a long way,
but eventually it's going to snap back.  And like a rubber band, it
usually hurts when it does.  (The trick for the Powers That Be is to
ensure that it's someone else that gets hurt.)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89119

On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:12:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2026-07-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:24:43 +0000, Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top priority as the
>>> future of Linux is total corporate domination with a lack of freedom.
>>
>> The GNU project needs to realize strict microkernels didn't work 0
>> years ago and still don't work. When ideology meets reality guess which
>> loses.
> 
> Still, with enough guns you can put it off for a while.  But you're
> right, reality is like a rubber band.  You can stretch it a long way,
> but eventually it's going to snap back.  And like a rubber band, it
> usually hurts when it does.  (The trick for the Powers That Be is to
> ensure that it's someone else that gets hurt.)

Both Apple and Hurd started with the Mach kernel. Since Apple likes to 
make money they quickly went to a hybrid rather than beat their head 
against the wall for decades.

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#89080

On 7/26/26 17:24, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 20:00:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
> 
>>
>> For example, users want a browser that blocks ads, no
>> java script, no AI, fast and lite on memory and can read
>> any site without dealing with cloudflare.  What are
>> corporations giving us ?  Nothing but spyware, ads, DRM
>> and soon ID checks.
>>
> 
> There are alternative browsers.  Palemoon is a good example.
> But since browsers have stopped being just a program to
> render HTML markup and have become a portal for executing
> foreign software on user machines, development of an alternative
> browser is almost an impossible task for an independent team.

   Yep, it ain't 1989 anymore. To be even remotely useful
   for most anything browsers have to be very complex,
   sometimes a bit evil too. Just try to use Lynx and
   related on any modern site ... you won't get anywhere.
   Forget buying from Amazon or doing yer banking.

> Web standards, defined by international authorities, should
> be strictly enforced but they are not.  The fault in large
> part lies with the user who does not take the time and effort
> to demand from web sites that they conform.

   I'm never happy with "international authorities".
   Often some sinister/totalitarian shit involved.

>> To me, most distros are very close to becoming an exact
>> clone of M/S Windows or Apple OS.  The way things are
>> going it will be almost impossible to tell these apart
>> in maybe 5 to 10 years.
>>
> 
> Yes.  Quite correct.

   No, Linux can never be a massive clusterfuck
   like Winders !  :-)

> The single thing that is making this monolithicity possible
> is SYSTEMD (that is its purpose).  All the users (i.e. moochers)
> who blindly accept systemd are complicit in this corruption
> of GNU/Linux.

   Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
   not like the Winders registry, don't see any
   INTENTIONAL evil.

> Fortunately, this only applies to "most" distros.  There
> are alternatives but these always will be in the fringe.

   Look at MX and a few others ... the start-up options
   allow you to run a systemd or sysV version. You can
   use grub-customizer to pick yer default, but still
   have the alt easily available.

> Once Torvalds retires, for whatever reason, from his stewardship
> the degeneration of Linux will only accelerate.

   Which is why I'm looking into the BSDs more and more.

> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
> priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
> domination with a lack of freedom.

   We need alt development streams.

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#89084

On Sun, 26 Jul 2026 21:19:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> 
>    Aww ... I like systemd in many respects. It's
>    not like the Winders registry, don't see any
>    INTENTIONAL evil.
> 

You "don't see" because you are a deluded, and lazy, idiot.

You, as well as most other GNU/Linux users, have never performed
any serious research into the true origins, purpose, and goals of
systemd, even though you have had many years to so so.

> 
>> The GNU project needs to make their Hurd kernel a top
>> priority as the future of Linux is total corporate
>> domination with a lack of freedom.
> 
>    We need alt development streams.
>

Will you volunteer your programming "talents?"

FOSS requires a lot more than just innocent bystanders.
Each and every user must become involved in some way, however
small.



-- 
Gentoo/LFS: Is there any-fucking-thing else?

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