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AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos

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  AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 00:26 -0400
    Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-08 07:03 +0000
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-08 08:16 +0000
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:00 -0400
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 13:24 +0100
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 12:33 +0100
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-08 17:31 +0000
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:18 -0400
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 13:25 +0100
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-09 19:07 +0000
              Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:28 +0100
              Life in Russia - US vs Russian propagando (Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-09 13:21 -0700
              Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos "Stanislav N. aka pztrn" <pztrn@oldproto.invalid> - 2026-08-10 05:28 +0500
                Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:15 +0100
                  Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos "Stanislav N. aka pztrn" <pztrn@oldproto.invalid> - 2026-08-10 10:51 +0500
          Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-09 18:47 +0000
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:26 +0100
            Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-10 00:06 -0400
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 20:54 -0400
        CLASS in Europe and America Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-09 07:10 -0700
          Re: CLASS in Europe and America Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-09 16:48 +0000
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:22 +0100
          Re: CLASS in Europe and America c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-09 23:59 -0400
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-10 06:16 +0100
            Re: CLASS in Europe and America Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-10 05:35 -0700
    Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-08 09:44 +0100
      Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-08 21:13 -0400
        Re: AI Finds FLAWS in AES/Post-Quantum Encryption Algos Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-09 09:26 +0100

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#89806 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 2026-08-09, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment 
> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar 
> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high 
> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of 
> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.

In one sense, though, the USA has achieved a classless society.
Their president, for instance, has no class at all.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#89815 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 09/08/2026 17:48, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-08-09, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
> 
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment
>> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar
>> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high
>> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of
>> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
> In one sense, though, the USA has achieved a classless society.
> Their president, for instance, has no class at all.
> 
This is sadly true


-- 
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

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#89831 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-08-08 17:54, c186282 wrote:
>> On 8/8/26 03:03, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2026-08-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     The USA/west DO have serious enemies - and they're
>>>>     tech-savvy. Bear that in mind.
>>>
>>> Some of them are in the USA itself.  Can you say "tech oligarchs"?
>>>
>>> Unless you define "USA" as the oligarchs themselves, of course.
>>
>>    Nah, USA isn't that 'simple' - and too volatile.
>>    The rich become poor and the poor become rich
>>    too easily, too often, in the USA to sustain
>>    a traditional oligarchy. It's easier in Europe
>>    with its more rigid/established classes.
> 
> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class entrenchment 
> in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am intimately familar 
> with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) that they have high 
> social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a new business in most of 
> Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.

   The UK is still probably THE worst in the
   vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
   to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
   never be seen as a real "peer".

   It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
   looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
   news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
   under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
   maybe easier, "keep", not so much.

   And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
   Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
   you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
   to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
   to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
   they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...

   Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
   spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
   weak and thus things change fast.

   "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
   on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
   the normal cycle in USA.

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#89841 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

On 10/08/2026 04:59, c186282 wrote:
> On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> On 2026-08-08 17:54, c186282 wrote:
>>> On 8/8/26 03:03, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2026-08-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     The USA/west DO have serious enemies - and they're
>>>>>     tech-savvy. Bear that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> Some of them are in the USA itself.  Can you say "tech oligarchs"?
>>>>
>>>> Unless you define "USA" as the oligarchs themselves, of course.
>>>
>>>    Nah, USA isn't that 'simple' - and too volatile.
>>>    The rich become poor and the poor become rich
>>>    too easily, too often, in the USA to sustain
>>>    a traditional oligarchy. It's easier in Europe
>>>    with its more rigid/established classes.
>>
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class 
>> entrenchment in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am 
>> intimately familar with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) 
>> that they have high social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a 
>> new business in most of Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
>    The UK is still probably THE worst in the
>    vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
>    to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
>    never be seen as a real "peer".
> 
I see you have never visited

>    It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
>    looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
>    news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
>    under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
>    maybe easier, "keep", not so much.
> 
>    And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
>    Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
>    you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
>    to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
>    to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
>    they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...
> 
>    Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
>    spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
>    weak and thus things change fast.
> 
>    "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
>    on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
>    the normal cycle in USA.
> 

No class at all.

-- 
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and 
higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey

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#89856 — Re: CLASS in Europe and America

> On 8/9/26 10:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> As an immigrant from Europe (Denmark) I see much more class 
>> entrenchment in the USA than in the parts of Europe that I am 
>> intimately familar with. Americans TELL themselves (or each other) 
>> that they have high social mobility, but it is FAR easier to start a 
>> new business in most of Europe. Universal health care is one huge reason.
> 
On 2026-08-09 20:59, c186282 wrote:
>    The UK is still probably THE worst in the
>    vicinity about 'class'. You're either "born
>    to" whatever or you'll get squeezed out,
>    never be seen as a real "peer".
> 
>    It MAY be easier to start a biz in the EU. Never
>    looked into the details. However I do keep seeing
>    news from the EU about smaller biz collapsing
>    under huge tax and regulatory burdens. So "start",
>    maybe easier, "keep", not so much.
> 
>    And you don't have to own a biz to "get ahead".
>    Just don't spend every coin you earn as fast as
>    you earn it. Persistence in a large biz tends
>    to pay off as well - alas Gen-Z/A2 don't seem
>    to GRASP that. If they're not CEO in six months
>    they jump ship and start over, and over, and over ...
> 
>    Anyway, USA is about "opportunity" - IF you can
>    spot it. The original "old money" crowd is pretty
>    weak and thus things change fast.
> 
>    "Old money" - grandpa MAKES it, the kids SURF
>    on it and the grand-kids BLOW it all. That's
>    the normal cycle in USA.

That used to be the story, but it is much less so. It is now quite easy 
for the older generation to protect the wealth and avoid taxation.
Not only are inheritance taxes all but abolished, but once you have 
enough wealth, you do not even pay income taxes in the accumulation
phase: Borrow to spend ... and then there is a "tax-free basis step-up"
upon inheritance.

Also, US law - or at least its implementation - has been distorted to 
where "business friendly" is understood as "big business friendly" to 
the detriment of small businesses. At least in the Nordics, government 
programs favor mom-and-pop businesses and startups.

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#89741

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
> https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/ai-found-a-weakness-in-one-of-the-worlds-most-studied-encryption-systems-is-your-data-under-threat
[...]
>   The news of defective 'post-quantum' encryption IS
>   a serious concern. We were all COUNTING on this for
>   the near future.

I don’t think there’s much to be concerned about here, quite the
opposite: the evaluation process is working as it should. Absolutely
nobody was counting on HAWK yet.

Daniel Simon’s work on DCP, with applications to LWE-based schemes, is a
more interesting one, though the sky is not falling there either.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#89776

On 8/8/26 04:44, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
>> https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/ai-found-a-weakness-in-one-of-the-worlds-most-studied-encryption-systems-is-your-data-under-threat
> [...]
>>    The news of defective 'post-quantum' encryption IS
>>    a serious concern. We were all COUNTING on this for
>>    the near future.
> 
> I don’t think there’s much to be concerned about here, quite the
> opposite: the evaluation process is working as it should. Absolutely
> nobody was counting on HAWK yet.
> 
> Daniel Simon’s work on DCP, with applications to LWE-based schemes, is a
> more interesting one, though the sky is not falling there either.


   As said, the sky is not falling - not YET.

   BUT, this stuff shows it COULD.

   I'm also worried about 'archived' data - it'll
   still have all yer account numbers and such
   but as "last-years-crap" it won't be looked
   after so diligently.

   We may see a "3-AES" show up in a few years,
   a way of adding more CPU time (QP time?) to
   cracking anything. Like 3-DES that approach
   does work, for awhile.

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#89792

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
>   We may see a "3-AES" show up in a few years, a way of adding more
>   CPU time (QP time?) to cracking anything. Like 3-DES that approach
>   does work, for awhile.

Quantum computers are not a meaningful threat to AES, as I think you’ve
had explained to you before.

3DES is about expanding key strength. The main issue with AES is not the
key size (AES-256 is more than enough) but the block size. Whether that
results in anything new remains an open question as far as I know.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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