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Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

From The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Date 2021-08-27 02:58 +0100
Organization A little, after lunch
Message-ID <sg9grd$n4i$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <1vGdnQotD_JChLr8nZ2dnUU7-L3NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <874kbc18bn.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <sg8gn8$78h$1@dont-email.me> <LZmdnU0zIfsmp7X8nZ2dnUU7-L_NnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 27/08/2021 02:06, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 08/26/2021 12:49 PM, Tauno Voipio wrote:
>> On 26.8.21 19.26, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 00:34:38 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274b.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Note, CP/M was rather CRAPPY. It wasn't even usually
>>>> safe to try and append to files because the OS didn't
>>>> keep track of how many bytes were in play.
>>>
>>> MS-DOS did? I admit I have no idea, but always thought CP/M was superior
>>> to MS-DOS; even that MS-DOS was more or less a clone. And not forget 
>>> CP/M
>>> was the first operating system for micros, running on many system
>>> architectures, as long as they ran a 8080, Z80 or X68. The software
>>> library is so huge that many manufacturers, even Commodore, offered CP/M
>>> cards to give their customers access to it.
>>
>>
>> CP/M had bookkeeping in 128 byte extents, not more accurate. The extent
>> size was also the sector size of a basic single-density 8 inch diskette,
>> with 77 tracks of 26 sectors each.
> 
>    Ah HA ! So if you wanted to append a file, you should have
>    your records sized at some multiple of 128 .....

No, the problem was that text files used a ctrl-z to mark EOF so you had 
to scan the last sector looking for it...and use that as your file size.
For code files - executables - spare bytes at the end didn't matter. and 
ctrl-z was a valid opcodes or memory address, but you didn't append 
executable files - you recompiled or reassembled them.

The problem would have been binary files. But we didn't have those 
really then. Much. And if we did we usually put something in the file 
structure itself to say how long it was. CP/M doisk drivers were really 
just a way of getting n 128 byte sectors off a disk and putting them on.

Files as such were a bit of a new fangled luxury :-)

> 
>    This is useful information.
> 
>    The young people do not realize how CP/M was *the*
>    "business system" for quite a long time. Mass quantities
>    of biz/science software was written for it. 
First micro word processors and (among the first) spreadsheets. 
Accounting software too.

This is why
>    those old PCs came with the CP/M disk. You could re-compile
>    your old source and I seem to recall there were utilities
>    that could (usually) brutalize Z-80 binaries into x86
>    binaries directly that'd run on CP/M-86. IBMs middle
>    name IS "Business" after all and they wanted to ensure
>    a certain continuity until new apps could be written.

Yeah. I remember those, but really a lot of the 8080 assembler source 
could be mapped into 8086 small model (64k) code. That would have been a 
better way, but along came PCDOS and bang went CPM MPM and CPM86



-- 
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone 
gets full Marx.

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Thread

HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 00:34 -0400
  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-08-26 05:05 +0000
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 20:57 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:12 +0100
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-31 02:43 -0400
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-31 09:28 +0100
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-01 00:13 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-01 08:52 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 20:29 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-06 08:49 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-01 04:21 +0000
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2021-09-09 21:56 +0200
  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 10:03 +0100
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 20:36 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:08 +0100
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-29 01:32 -0400
  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-26 12:26 -0400
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-08-26 19:49 +0300
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 21:06 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:58 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-27 13:22 -0400
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-08-27 11:26 -0700
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-28 01:22 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-28 09:53 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-29 02:08 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-28 12:11 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-29 01:08 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-29 04:01 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-29 23:32 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-08-30 00:51 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-30 00:06 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-08-30 14:03 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-31 01:25 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-01 04:21 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-04 01:37 -0400
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-28 09:40 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-28 12:20 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2021-08-29 00:55 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-31 01:58 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-31 06:16 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-31 23:47 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-01 07:52 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2021-09-02 01:49 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2021-09-02 02:39 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-02 01:29 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-02 01:10 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-02 14:51 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-09-02 13:25 -0700
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-02 21:24 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-03 03:38 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-03 09:14 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-04 01:01 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-03 12:13 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-04 01:16 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-03 03:19 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 14:00 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 17:44 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 14:11 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 19:53 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-03 13:59 -0700
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 02:14 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:47 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-09-05 10:00 -0500
                Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:16 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-05 12:05 -0400
                Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:20 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 23:00 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 16:27 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 18:30 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-08 00:17 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-06 08:50 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-06 11:16 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-06 15:04 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2021-09-09 02:04 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 01:40 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:38 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-05 10:49 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 11:22 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:31 +0100
                OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:38 +0100
                Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 12:15 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-07 22:05 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-09-05 10:13 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 09:50 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 20:18 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 22:38 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 08:53 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-05 12:22 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-03 19:34 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-03 19:57 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-09-03 08:27 +0300
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 01:03 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-09-05 15:25 +0300
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 14:03 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-09-05 19:27 +0300
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 20:14 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-06 00:53 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-06 08:58 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-09-06 12:36 +0300
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-28 00:44 -0400
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 17:51 +0100
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-28 01:48 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-28 10:16 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-08-29 00:21 -0400
  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2021-08-26 19:53 +0200
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 20:33 -0400
  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:01 +0000
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 04:40 +0100
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-02 00:15 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-02 06:02 +0000
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-03 02:37 -0400

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