Re: thirty years ago

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: thirty years ago
Date	2021-08-27 02:49 +0100
Organization	A little, after lunch
Message-ID	<sg9gau$kkh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<eli$2108251343@qaz.wtf> <fIGdnTVUovMgibr8nZ2dnUU7-cXNnZ2d@earthlink.com> <sg7lam$ica$1@dont-email.me> <nIOdnV_F4NfSorX8nZ2dnUU7-Q3NnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 27/08/2021 02:26, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 08/26/2021 05:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>  > On 26/08/2021 05:12, SixOverFive wrote:
>  >> Strong rumors that Win-11 replaces a lot of the
>  >>    behind-the-scenes code with de-facto Linux, Win-12
>  >>    will be almost entirely Linux tweaked into a
>  >>    look-alike/work-alike that fools people into thinking
>  >>    it is still the old Winders line. MS just can't keep
>  >>    up with 30+ years of "legacy" and and HAS to switch
>  >>    to a more organized paradigm.
>  >>
>  > MS will have worked out where its income lies, as IBM did when it
>  > realised the money wasn't necessarily in hardware or operating systems.
>  >
>  > Google has showed more enterprise than MS in terms of cloud level
>  > applications but Microsoft is in a good position to pick up more than
>  > just skype.
>  >
>  > It might make sense to do WINE properly for legacy apps, and sell an
>  > entirely linux based 'windows' distro.
>  >
>  >
>  >>    Oh, they CAN sell it because it's "value added" ...
>  >>
>  >>    The PROBLEM is that code snippets from their huge
>  >>    well-financed development team will trickle into
>  >>    mainline Linux - and soon MS lawyer will claim
>  >>    to OWN Linux, sue Linus for stealing "their stuff".
>  >
>  > Well I am not so sure that will wash these days. Redhat and IBM dont
>  > claim ownership just because they work on Linux
> 
>    Well, RH and some others mostly sell "support", but they DO
>    write their own stuff for smoothly interconnecting lots of
>    other processors/boxes/storage even if those boxes are out
>    in "the cloud" somewhere.

Redhat have IIRC over a hundred coders working on kernel and driver 
stuff which goes back into the FOSS pool.

The may get income from support, but they spend it on code development
Linux wouldn't be where it is without injectoions of paid man hours from 
IIBM red hat and others

  "Big data" customizations. MS can
>    do that too and BET their code will become intermixed in
>    most every Linux distro after a few years. MS is also
>    "Linux-izing" some of the Winders internals (just making
>    them "work-alike" except (hopefully) all the zillions of
>    security issues.
> 
The thing is that there are powerful and deep pockets that want Linux to 
stay open source - hardware people for example. MS wont gop up against them

> 
>  > And a lot of people with plenty of money for plenty of liars - sorry
>  > lawyers - would be most unhappy to pay license fees to MS for something
>  > they used to get for free.
> 
>    MS lawyers will ENSURE they do ... $$$ talks. Bill PAYS,
>    Linus DOESN'T.

Please, stop with your prejudice and read what is being written.
Many many people rely on Linux. Commercial people. Do you really think 
the cost of paying some lawyers to take on MS (Gates isn't really part 
of it anymore) is more than paying MS a licence fee on every CPU chip 
sold, forever?


> 
>  > No, the desktop operating system is no longer a money spinner really.
>  > Cloud apps and office apps are where MS is probably cranking in the 
> dollars
>  >
>  > Anything that brings the mainline nonfree apps onto a linux platform is
>  > worth it I think.
>    For security/stability reasons if nothing else. Better for all.
>    However that "who owns what ?" issue IS also out there. MS has
>    tried to kill Linux before, and if it puts a penny in their
>    pocket they'll scheme-up a way to try it again, and again.
> 
Steve Bullmer has been gone for 7 years now. MS isn't what it was. 
Neither is the market.

They failed with mobile phone, they pretty much failed with tablets. In 
sense MS is the odd man out in a world of BSD/LINUX based Operating 
systems.
I am sure they will in some way introduce the 'windows distro' and port 
their stuff to linux eventually. Simply because even MS cant spend time 
fixing the same bugs in windows that everyone else is fixing in linux.

The challenge is providing a legacy windows API, to linux, but who 
better to do it than MS?


>    Now if we can just induce Intel to quit putting little MINIX
>    machines inside the guts of their chips. That's where some
>    of the latest blights came from. MINIX was/is an *educational*
>    excercise, simple enough for students to grasp, it was NEVER
>    meant for real-world applications and has basically ZERO
>    security. Yea, yea ... the Intel engineers knew they could
>    save a lot of work by putting intelligent higher-level
>    management systems in there instead of hand-writing all
>    the rules in microcode and solder, but ....

LOL!

Intel has had its day, too. ARM is taking over instead. CISC is just too 
power hungry, and compilers can do a better job of optimising that CPUs 
can...


I dunno about your experience, but my experience is that x86 CPU 
development is really at an end almost. Its still clocking at the same 
speed, and all the extra goodies - caching and multiple cores - are 
introducing security issues that many find unacceptable...

No, MS is a fading star. The one that scares me is Google, and Amazon - 
AWS runs too much stuff that ought to be on a server farm.


-- 
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper 
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating 
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its 
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of 
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must 
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

Thread

thirty years ago Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-08-25 17:44 +0000
  Re: thirty years ago John McCue <jmccue@jmcw541.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> - 2021-08-25 19:10 +0000
    Re: thirty years ago Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-08-25 16:47 -0700
      Re: thirty years ago The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 09:51 +0100
      Re: thirty years ago Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-26 12:14 -0400
  Re: thirty years ago doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2021-08-25 22:25 +0000
  Re: thirty years ago SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 00:12 -0400
    Re: thirty years ago The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 10:02 +0100
      Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago) Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-26 12:21 -0400
        Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago) Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-26 18:27 +0200
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 17:49 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-26 12:50 -0400
            Re: Linux on a Chromebook Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-26 19:35 +0200
              Re: Linux on a Chromebook Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-26 14:07 -0400
                Re: Linux on a Chromebook Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-08-26 18:17 +0000
                Re: Linux on a Chromebook Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-26 22:36 +0200
                Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:06 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 17:48 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago) Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-08-26 17:19 +0000
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook (was: thirty years ago) Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-08-26 19:45 +0200
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-26 20:20 +0100
        Re: Linux on a Chromebook SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 21:38 -0400
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 03:34 +0100
            Re: Linux on a Chromebook Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-08-27 13:32 +0000
            Re: Linux on a Chromebook Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-27 13:30 -0400
              Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-28 09:34 +0100
                Re: Linux on a Chromebook Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-08-28 12:42 -0400
                Re: Linux on a Chromebook The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-28 20:18 +0100
          Re: Linux on a Chromebook Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2021-08-26 21:06 -0700
      Re: thirty years ago SixOverFive <hae274b.net> - 2021-08-26 21:26 -0400
        Re: thirty years ago The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-27 02:49 +0100
  Re: thirty years ago "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2021-08-30 08:29 +0300
  Re: thirty years ago Solbu <solbu@solbu.net> - 2021-09-04 17:10 +0200
  Re: thirty years ago "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-19 17:34 +0300
    Re: thirty years ago "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-20 08:23 +0300

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