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Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1)

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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/10/14 07:28, JohnF wrote:
>> Sorry for following myself up, but wanted to report that:
>>    o xsane actually "just works",
>>    o whereas  scanimage > out.pdf  continues to segfault.
>> Hadn't tried xsane previously, but figured I'd try it now,
>> before installing simple-scan, since xsane is already installed.

> Well that shows that its nothing particularly to do with the scanner, 
> more an issue with scanimage.
Yeah, maybe I outsmarted myself. I tried the command-line tool first,
figuring it would be simpler/more-straightforward/more-robust.
So it goes and segfaults, while the gui tool works like a charm.

> PS try NOT using pdf output but pnm or whatever so you get a raw image
Not an option, at least apparently not an option.
The printer's browser-based configuration screens give you
an option of either pdf or tiff. That's it. Seems a bit weird,
but I just tell `em, I don't explain `em:).

> xsane has some sensible defaults, scanimage is probably asking the 
> printer to do what it cannot do, and not handling the errors its getting 
> back properly.
> segfault is in the end the last ditch attempt to 'report an error' that 
> the program itself fails to do :-)
> 
>> So what kind of resources/whatever could scanimage
>> be using/accessing/whatever that's causing it to segfault
>> (presumably because I configured something it needs wrong,
>> which xsane either doesn't need or can recover from gracefully)?
> 
> More likely that you didn't configure it RIGHT.

I take it there's a subtle difference between "configured it wrong"
and "didn't configure it right"? :)

> and scanimage is badly written.
> Most linux scanner software IS. Its the worst area of linux that I have 
> come across.
> It used to be printing, but when Apple got ahold of CUPS and put some 
> effort in that got a lot better.

This was my "first experience" with a scanner.
And it was indeed pretty awful!

>> If you/anybody are familiar with Brother MFC-J6920DW, or similar,
>> other things that continue to fail, and hopefully provide
>> additional clues, are...
>>    o I ran brscan-skey, and set up profiles through the mfc's
>>      browser interface, but "scan to network" from printer's panel
>>      just sits there for ~60secs and then reports "Sending error".
>>      Not very informative.
>>    o When setting up profiles, printer asks if you want a
>>      "Test Scan to Network". It also sits there for ~60secs
>>      and then reports, "Test Error Sending Error, This message
>>      will appear when you cannot access the destination folder.
> 
> One assumes that a scan to network' involves some actual destination 
> server being ready to receive the data.

It seems to be the only viable option from the browser menus.
  o There's "local" (to a usb stick), and that worked when I tested it.
  o There's "ftp" which I didn't try.
  o And then there's "test scan to network", which I assumed would
    be the one to use when connected wirelessly, especially since the
    scanner was indeed detected by sane-find-scanner and scanimage -L.

> Not sure that this is relevant to the real issue which is getting that 
> scanner to work when directly and locally connected.
I don't know either. I was just trying to put together all the
info I could generate, hoping it would add up to something
suggesting an underlying problem.

> Look I am guessing here, but I have been through similar pain with 
> scanners on older linux. anyway my scanners have all died so I don't 
> currently have this problem BUT.. certainly Xsane would work on default 
> settings but would go apeshit on others on the scanners I had. And 
> scanimage would often segfault on attempting to use drivers for other 
> scanners that were not present. When I had success, it was by using 
> simple-scan which simply doesn't invoke any cleverness at all.
> 
> The second thing is cured - or worked around - by removing all scanners 
> from the configuration files except the ones you need...comment them out.

I looked at that at some point, but not too carefully.
I'll remember to do that rigorously when I get back to
messing with scanimage (see below).

> The bad news is that scanning on Linux is a complete mess. IF you get 
> the right scanner and use the right program, it works flawlessly. If you 
> don't, it is well nigh impossible to get things working except in a 
> specific case for a specific setting.
>    The problem is that no two manufacturers use exactly the same 
> communication protocol to the actual chipsets, and the chipsets 
> themselves may be capable of trying to do things to the scanner hardware 
> that the hardware itself cannot support.
>    I suspect you have got over the first hurdle with the brother drivers, 
> but are failing at the second. Which is why Xsane is at least working.

If I understand you, I don't think it's the second.
That (if I understand you) would also be a problem under Windows.
But I couldn't google any analogous (as best I could define
"analogous" in this situation) Windows problems.

> Why no one has taken SANE and shaken it up and put time and effort into 
> it I do not know.
>    http://www.sane-project.org/man/scanimage.1.html
> lists some useful command line options which you should explore.

I'll do that when I get back to messing with scanimage (see below).

> However. If all you want is to scan a few documents and you are happy 
> with xsane or simple-scan my advice is to simply use them and forget all 
> the clever stuff.

Well, if "a few" = about five thousand, then you've hit the nail
on the head. I never wanted to turn configuring the scanner into
a research project; just wanted to use the thing.
   I'll probably eventually get back to messing with scanimage,
but for the time being I'm just going to sacrifice a few chickens
to acknowledge my thanks to the scanner gods, and hope I can get
some actual work done without displeasing them again.

> Likely as not it will still be buggy when the scanner 
> has died a natural death.
> Personally I use simple-scan as I think it's easier to use and does 
> things in the way I like.

xsane has what seems to me a marvelous way of letting you specify
the desired scan area by dragging your mouse over a full scan preview.
I've got 10"x12" originals, so I needed the tabloid-size MFC-J6920DW,
which seems to be the smallest common size large enough for 10"x12".
But I was afraid I'd have to crop the pdf's afterwards, as there's
no standard 10"x12" papersize. But xsane does it perfectly.
In fact, the scanner even stops before scanning the entire 17" length
of its flatbed. So xsane must really know how to talk to it.
Thanks for all your help, np,
-- 
John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )

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(In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-03 00:46 +0000
  Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-10-02 22:17 -0400
  Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-10-03 11:41 +0100
    Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-03 11:41 +0000
      Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-04 06:28 +0000
        Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-10-04 09:39 +0100
          Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-04 12:46 +0000
            Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2014-10-05 03:08 +0000
              Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2014-10-05 03:43 +0000
                Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) JohnF <john@please.see.sig.for.email.com> - 2014-10-05 08:48 +0000
  Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2014-10-03 16:26 +0000
    Re: (In)sane for Brother MFC-J6920DW (on slackware 14.1) John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2014-10-04 04:06 +0000

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