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HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

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  HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? no.top.post@gmail.com - 2012-05-18 19:28 +0000
    Re: HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2012-05-18 15:10 -0700
      Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? no.top.post@gmail.com - 2012-05-19 14:23 +0000
        Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2012-05-19 08:08 -0700
        Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2012-05-19 11:50 -0400
        Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Kevin Snodgrass <kdsnodgrass@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 21:22 +0000
        Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Gordon <Gordon@clear.net.nz> - 2012-05-22 05:41 +0000
    Re: HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? terryc <newsninespam-spam@woa.com.au> - 2012-05-21 11:01 +1000
    Re: HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? Danno <WhoaBaby@MySecretPlace.org> - 2012-05-20 22:19 -0600
    Re: HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>? john connolly <wconn@kc.rr.com> - 2012-05-22 21:03 +0000

#1229 — HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
I've read that these new-ones are better & cheaper.
But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.

So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the 
same old/2005 PC?

== TIA

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#1230

On 05/18/2012 12:28 PM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
> Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
> I've read that these new-ones are better&  cheaper.
> But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
> and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
>
> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
> same old/2005 PC?
>
> == TIA
>

	What hardware might you have already?
	Same/old 2005 PC defines no important parameters
of the machine aside from age.

	bliss

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#1231 — Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

In article <jp6hcg$f38$1@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote: 

> On 05/18/2012 12:28 PM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
> > I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
> > Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
> > I've read that these new-ones are better&  cheaper.
> > But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
> > and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
> >
> > So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
> > same old/2005 PC?
> >
> > == TIA
> >
> 
> 	What hardware might you have already?
> 	Same/old 2005 PC defines no important parameters
> of the machine aside from age.
> 
All the PCs that I have access to [except a netbook, which I don't
intend to open up] have 2   40-pin sockets for master/slave IDE
drive cables.

Can such MOBOs accomodate the new type; perhaps with a
<plug in>?
I can't believe that when the new drives came out, users had
to just discard their existing PCs.

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#1232 — Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

On 05/19/2012 07:23 AM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
> In article<jp6hcg$f38$1@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 05/18/2012 12:28 PM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
>>> Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
>>> I've read that these new-ones are better&   cheaper.
>>> But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
>>> and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
>>>
>>> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
>>> same old/2005 PC?
>>>
>>> == TIA
>>>
>>
>> 	What hardware might you have already?
>> 	Same/old 2005 PC defines no important parameters
>> of the machine aside from age.
>>
> All the PCs that I have access to [except a netbook, which I don't
> intend to open up] have 2   40-pin sockets for master/slave IDE
> drive cables.
>
> Can such MOBOs accomodate the new type; perhaps with a
> <plug in>?
> I can't believe that when the new drives came out, users had
> to just discard their existing PCs.
	
	Does it have an open card slot?

	If so you might be able to get a card to use
whatever new drive you are talking about.  All the
acronyms are confusing, I agree.

	As for discarding old pcs it is far better to
recycle them and I have been through a new notebook, a
old Dell tower, and have loaned out my old Inspiron
4000 while I work from my 3 year old Compaq Presario
CQ60-215DX notebook. All the bits went where I judged
they could do the most good aside from the hard drives.

	Now above is the sort of identifying information
that might let people help you if possible.
	Heck! Just enter the sort of information I have
supplied but from your machine into Google and you might
begin to learn about it.  Look for manuals and
specifications.

	later
	bliss

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#1233 — Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
> In article <jp6hcg$f38$1@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote: 
> 
>> On 05/18/2012 12:28 PM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
>>> Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
>>> I've read that these new-ones are better&  cheaper.
>>> But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
>>> and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
>>>
>>> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
>>> same old/2005 PC?
>>>
>>> == TIA
>>>
>> 	What hardware might you have already?
>> 	Same/old 2005 PC defines no important parameters
>> of the machine aside from age.
>>
> All the PCs that I have access to [except a netbook, which I don't
> intend to open up] have 2   40-pin sockets for master/slave IDE
> drive cables.
> 
> Can such MOBOs accomodate the new type; perhaps with a
> <plug in>?
> I can't believe that when the new drives came out, users had
> to just discard their existing PCs.
> 

Some examples of adapters. I own the first one, and it has a jumper
for master/slave. The picture gallery for the first one, shows the PCB
has a slightly different layout now, and the jumper is three position master/slave/cable_select.
Note - this plugs directly into the back of the SATA hard drive. And
allows two drives to be connected to a single ribbon cable.

http://ca.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/25in-and-35in-40-Pin-Male-IDE-to-SATA-Adapter-Converter~IDE2SAT

This is for a 2.5" SATA drive. Based on the pictures, I think this plugs right
into the motherboard header, limiting SATA drives to one SATA drive
per motherboard IDE header. There is no master/slave jumper that I can see.
The adapter sits on top of the motherboard, then the red data cable runs
over to the SATA hard drive. The user must provide a 15 pin power cable to
run over to the SATA drive, to power it. So this solution isn't the same
as the previous one, in terms of infrastructure.

http://ca.startech.com/HDD/Adapters/40-Pin-Female-IDE-to-SATA-Adapter-Converter~IDE2SAT25

The problem with the adapters is size. Those would work in a desktop computer,
because there would be room for them. A netbook isn't going to have room
for assemblies like that.

Adapter chips have been available for some time. In fact, the first SATA
hard drives, used an adapter chip on the disk drive controller board,
to convert a native IDE controller board, into SATA. It took a year or so,
before true native SATA drives were made (where the controller board
no longer used an adapter).

The adapter chips are available in SATA to IDE and IDE to SATA. When
purchasing, you have to be extra careful, to determine you're buying
the correct direction. Sometimes the pictures provide a hint as to
what the device may be. A lot of those adapters, don't come with a manual,
and the Startech one could have used an extra picture or two. The picture
gallery on the web site, helps to some extent.

The adapter is relatively transparent to software. No driver is needed.
(I didn't install a driver to use it.)

   Paul

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#1239 — Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:23:18 +0000, no.top.post wrote:
> Can such MOBOs accomodate the new type; perhaps with a <plug in>?

By "new type" I assume you mean SATA and by IDE I assume you mean PATA.  
Note that both are IDE.  IDE stands for Integrated Drive Electronics.  
SATA and PATA define a different, higher level standard for the device to 
host interface.

Yes, you can get a variety of adapters to run SATA on an older machine 
that only has a built-in PATA controller.  There are PCI cards and also 
adapters that plug directly onto the back of the PATA drive.

> I can't believe that when the new drives came out, users had to just
> discard their existing PCs.

No, you can still buy PATA drives, at least online.  Walmart, BestBuy, 
Office Depot, etc may not carry them on a shelf these days (I have no 
idea if they do or not, I always buy online), but www.newegg.com, 
www.amazon.com, www.mwave.com and dozens (hundreds?) of other websites do.

This is no different than when we transitioned from MFM to RLL, MFM to 
ESDI, RLL to ESDI, any of those to SCSI, any of those to PATA, etc.

Interesting side note, you can still buy NEW MFM drives:

http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?
partno=ST125&itemid=27338636&rid=fd_10

$480 for a 21 MB, (Yes, that's MegaByte!) 3600 RPM drive, what a deal...

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#1244 — Re: Re (2): HOW2 transition from IDE to <new ones>?

On 2012-05-19, no.top.post@gmail.com <no.top.post@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jp6hcg$f38$1@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote: 
>
>> On 05/18/2012 12:28 PM, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
>> > I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
>> > Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
>> > I've read that these new-ones are better&  cheaper.
>> > But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
>> > and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
>> >
>> > So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
>> > same old/2005 PC?
>> >
>> > == TIA
>> >
>> 
>> 	What hardware might you have already?
>> 	Same/old 2005 PC defines no important parameters
>> of the machine aside from age.
>> 
> All the PCs that I have access to [except a netbook, which I don't
> intend to open up] have 2   40-pin sockets for master/slave IDE
> drive cables.
>
> Can such MOBOs accomodate the new type; perhaps with a
><plug in>?
> I can't believe that when the new drives came out, users had
> to just discard their existing PCs.
>
There was a transistion period of years on the MB side of things. They had a
single PATA socket.

The SATA drives did not cause all PATA drives to vanish over night.

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#1240

On 19/05/12 05:28, no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
> Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.

Are you running *nix?
If you are tunning Linux, first step is to LABEL the partitions and use 
those LABELs in /etc/fstab to mount the partition, otherwise /dev/sda1 
could change <mutter mutter>

man mkswap  (mkswap -L LABEL /dev/sdNn)
man tune2fs (tune2fs -L LABEL /dev/sdNn)

In /etc/fstab

#/dev/hda2       /         ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1
LABEL=/root     /          ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1

#/dev/hdb2       /home     ext3    defaults        0       2
LABEL=/home      /home     ext3    defaults        0       2

Also grub /boot/grub/menu.lst

#kernel         /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686 root=/dev/hda2 ro
kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686 root=LABEL=/root ro idebus=66
initrd          /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686



> I've read that these new-ones are better&  cheaper.

I don't know about better. Ever since they went over 2Gb, I have none in 
my hardware collection as they all eventually fail.

> But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
> and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
>
> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the
> same old/2005 PC?

Yes, if you can find a plug in card that supports the new big plug in 
disk and works in your 2005 age hardware. Umm, I hope that isn't too 
problematic as some of mine is that age and close to it.

However, any benefit will be limited by the maximum bus speed of your 
2005 era mobtherboard.

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#1242

On Fri, 18 May 2012 19:28:45 +0000 (UTC)
no.top.post@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s.
> Now this netbook shows /dev/sda1,2,3,4.
> I've read that these new-ones are better & cheaper.
> But the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents,
> and we must keep our valuable data - with continuity.
> 
> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the 
> same old/2005 PC?
> 
> == TIA
> 


There are PCI SATA cards that are relatively inexpensive. I recently
installed a Vantec 6-port SATA II 150 PCI host card (model UGT-ST310R) in
my fileserver (4 internal SATA II, 2 eSATA). Although I have yet to
actually use it, the kernel boot log seems to recognize and configure it.
I think it was $25 or or something. I'm sure the access speed probably
isn't going to impress anyone, but if you are fine with IDE speeds, then
likely isn't going to be noticeable, allows one to use huge new SATA drives
through an appropriate interface, doesn't consume IDE channels on the
motherboard.


-- 
Slackware 13.1, 2.6.33.4-smp, Core i7 920
GeForce GT520, RLU #272755

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#1250

On Fri, 18 May 2012 19:28:45 +0000, no.top.post wrote:

> I've been using IDE hard-disks since the 90s. Now this netbook shows
> /dev/sda1,2,3,4. I've read that these new-ones are better & cheaper. But
> the value in not in the hardware. it's in the contents, and we must keep
> our valuable data - with continuity.
> 
> So can you have a BIG new-disk and say-2 IDEs on the same old/2005 PC?
> 
> == TIA

I have been using the following adapter:
http://www2.buyincoins.com/details/ide-to-sata-sata-to-ide-drive-dual-
convert-adapter-product-675.html
to run a sata drive off an ide connector for some time. Delivery time is 
about 2 weeks but the price is right.
Best wishes, jwc

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