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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #687633 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300 |
| Articles | 17 on this page of 237 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.advocacy
Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 09:14 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 12:23 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:44 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 19:50 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Mikey <Mikey.Smith@aol.invalid> - 2025-03-21 15:00 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-21 19:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 16:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 23:53 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-21 20:27 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 00:45 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:49 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:29 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:59 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 20:14 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 01:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:54 -0500
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 09:22 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 19:16 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 14:26 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 17:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 20:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 16:47 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 13:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 12:40 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 15:56 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:27 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 14:04 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 17:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-22 19:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:23 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 08:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 12:21 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:06 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:22 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:35 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:41 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:11 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 21:05 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:22 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 17:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 22:34 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 08:53 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 13:39 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 10:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 19:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:42 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:38 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:59 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 01:30 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:16 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:24 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:40 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:48 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:02 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:10 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 18:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-09 11:51 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-04-10 10:07 +1200
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 18:16 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:48 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:08 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:14 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 19:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-25 06:24 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:31 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 12:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 15:39 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:52 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:58 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 22:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 16:02 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:25 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:34 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-24 09:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-24 20:10 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 18:33 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:51 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:06 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:33 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:13 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:15 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:22 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:36 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:49 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:09 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:29 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Rudy Canoza <rc@j.kone.invalid> - 2025-03-25 02:32 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 18:27 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 16:55 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:08 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 17:10 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:21 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 23:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 02:50 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 16:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 07:42 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 08:07 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:44 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 12:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:59 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 13:11 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-07 08:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 15:49 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:16 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 01:26 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ πππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπJenπππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπ Dershmendenderer ππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπΆη¬πππ»πΊπΉπ»ππ·πΊπ <root@127.0.0.1> - 2025-04-06 03:18 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 03:35 +0000
Re: π³οΈβπApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπ³οΈβπ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 04:31 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 03:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:01 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:08 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 05:37 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:45 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 23:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:46 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:52 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:59 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:28 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:48 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:12 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 04:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:48 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 14:54 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 17:24 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 18:03 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:53 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 22:42 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:45 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 07:50 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 02:08 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:16 -0400
Computing chops (was: Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-28 02:40 +0000
Re: Computing chops (was: Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:57 -0400
Re: Computing chops (was: Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-28 04:48 +0000
Re: Computing chops (was: Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:17 -0400
Re: Computing chops DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-27 23:23 -0400
Re: Computing chops vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-28 04:36 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 18:11 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:43 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:18 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-28 08:26 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 14:58 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 15:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:09 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <kznDP.997256$eNx6.480775@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #687755 |
On 2025-03-21 3:40 p.m., Alan wrote: > On 2025-03-21 09:29, Joel wrote: >> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.Β What I could build for that is >>>>>>>> unbelievable.Β Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does >>>>>>>> OK.Β I >>>>>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you do that you would need a Mac Mini configured to cost >>>>>>> that much? >>>>>> >>>>>> I use the capacity of my CPU and RAM under Linux, it would only be >>>>>> more burdened under macOS with needing to run WinARM in a VM, rather >>>>>> than having native Wine with an x86-64 PC with Linux. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but that is completely dodging the question. >>>> >>>> OK, let me explain, the device would need to have Windows 11 running >>>> in a VM, and mind you that isn't a complaint because remaining with >>>> x86 just for Wine wouldn't make sense, Apple was smart to dump >>>> IntelAMD.Β It's convenient that I can operate this app under Wine, >>>> with Linux and x86 hardware, but in the future I would love to see >>>> Linux for ARM on a new device. >>> >>> As was already explained to you, that's false. >>> >>> WiNE is available to run ARM Windows apps on the Mac. >>> >>>> To address your question, directly, I upped the specs to give me 32 GB >>>> RAM and such.Β That which would give me what's needed to make macOS >>>> shine as a driver OS. >>> But since that proceeded from a false assumption... >> >> >> I would as it turns out be fine using Wine under macOS, you were right >> about that part of it, but it doesn't change the desired specs of my >> theoretical Mac mini, they just go from "pretty good" to "really >> good". > And I ask again: > > What actual task makes you need such an extreme machine? And I answer again: drawing penises next to the mouths of celebrities on photos. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xxxxxx-830806.00002125032025@news.supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #687633 |
In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is > unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I > think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And steak costs more than chicken. What is your point? But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <cna4uj9rqu12nhgg4r74cne6jo0uacgis2@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #688064 |
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. > >Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >steak costs more than chicken. > >What is your point? It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why would I screw around with Apple? >But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one, but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop system. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <vrta9v$2br2p$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #688066 |
On 2025-03-24 21:06, Joel wrote: > Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: > >>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >> >> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >> steak costs more than chicken. >> >> What is your point? > > > It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why > would I screw around with Apple? I was MORE than "intelligent enough" to handle the Kent engine in a Formula F (Ford)... ...but I had better things to do... ...so I now own a Formula F HONDA that requires far less "handling". > > >> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? > > > More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to > the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one, > but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop > system. Have you actually expanded your "real" tower desktop?
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lrb4ujt63arela4pehb0fu27gk9ntij55l@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #688068 |
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >> [The Mac mini] lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop >> system. >Have you actually expanded your "real" tower desktop? Initially, it had CPU video, 16 GB RAM, WiFi integrated in the motherboard, and a single 1 TB SSD. Now, NVIDIA video, 32 GB RAM, upgraded PCI-e WiFi, and a second 512 GB SSD. Or, in other words, I've done spectacular things for little money. Good luck with your Apple addiction. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xxxxxx-2F9CDD.10135425032025@news.supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #688066 |
In article <cna4uj9rqu12nhgg4r74cne6jo0uacgis2@4ax.com>, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: > > >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is > >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I > >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. > > > >Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And > >steak costs more than chicken. > > > >What is your point? > > > It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why > would I screw around with Apple? I can "handle Linux" too. I just no longer want to waste my time on that. I have better things to do with my time. Because in the long run, money is easier to accumulate than time. For all of us. > >But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even > >mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? > > > More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to > the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one, > but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop > system. Ah yes. The old "expandability" thing. Yeah, that used to be important to me too. But I no longer care about that. I just buy what I need. If I need more later, then I buy a new one and sell the old one. Just like we do with cars, microwave ovens, TVs, phones and every other consumer product on the planet. You can't "expand" any of those. So why worry about "expanding" something as common as a modern computer that costs less than $700? Back in the days when $1,500 got you 8K of RAM (yes K), no hard drive (hard drives alone were once $5,000 for 10 MB. Yes Megabytes), no green screen monitor (that was another $500), one 5" floppy drive and no software except maybe a primitive DOS and a BASIC interpreter, expandability was very important. You had to protect your initial investment. And that was 1980 dollars. That's like spending $6,000 today on a computer. Or $8,000 including a monitor and some software. Or $28,000 including that 10MB hard drive.
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <gke5ujln67ri969vivt3169m2id5vp9v22@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #688115 |
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: >> >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >> >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >> >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >> > >> >Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >> >steak costs more than chicken. >> > >> >What is your point? >> >> It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why >> would I screw around with Apple? > >I can "handle Linux" too. I just no longer want to waste my time on >that. I have better things to do with my time. > >Because in the long run, money is easier to accumulate than time. For >all of us. The thing is, you achieve with Linux, installing something from the command line when it isn't conveniently offered in the app store, you get the hang of it and it becomes natural, it's not as hard as it looks. You gain the freedom from commercial platforms. >> >But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >> >mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >> >> More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to >> the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one, >> but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop >> system. > >Ah yes. The old "expandability" thing. > >Yeah, that used to be important to me too. But I no longer care about >that. I just buy what I need. If I need more later, then I buy a new >one and sell the old one. > >Just like we do with cars, microwave ovens, TVs, phones and every other >consumer product on the planet. You can't "expand" any of those. So >why worry about "expanding" something as common as a modern computer >that costs less than $700? > >Back in the days when $1,500 got you 8K of RAM (yes K), no hard drive >(hard drives alone were once $5,000 for 10 MB. Yes Megabytes), no green >screen monitor (that was another $500), one 5" floppy drive and no >software except maybe a primitive DOS and a BASIC interpreter, >expandability was very important. You had to protect your initial >investment. > >And that was 1980 dollars. That's like spending $6,000 today on a >computer. Or $8,000 including a monitor and some software. Or >$28,000 including that 10MB hard drive. My computer will be four years old, next month. And yet it might as well be brand new, from my perspective, because I'm not running Winbloat 11, nor clinging to outdated Windows 10 like the people who simply refuse to make the leap to Linux. This device could last me years to come. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <RyzEP.1333396$_N6e.540798@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #688115 |
On 2025-03-25 10:13, Johnny LaRue wrote: > In article <cna4uj9rqu12nhgg4r74cne6jo0uacgis2@4ax.com>, > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: >> >>>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >>> >>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >>> steak costs more than chicken. >>> >>> What is your point? >> >> >> It just seems stupid, I'm intelligent enough to handle Linux, why >> would I screw around with Apple? > > I can "handle Linux" too. I just no longer want to waste my time on > that. I have better things to do with my time. > > Because in the long run, money is easier to accumulate than time. For > all of us. > >>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >>> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >> >> >> More on the hardware side, the Mac mini is a pretty nifty solution to >> the "regular desktop" demand for an Apple device, and I could use one, >> but it nevertheless lacks the expandability of my real tower desktop >> system. > > Ah yes. The old "expandability" thing. > > Yeah, that used to be important to me too. But I no longer care about > that. I just buy what I need. If I need more later, then I buy a new > one and sell the old one. > > Just like we do with cars, microwave ovens, TVs, phones and every other > consumer product on the planet. You can't "expand" any of those. So > why worry about "expanding" something as common as a modern computer > that costs less than $700? > > Back in the days when $1,500 got you 8K of RAM (yes K), no hard drive > (hard drives alone were once $5,000 for 10 MB. Yes Megabytes), no green > screen monitor (that was another $500), one 5" floppy drive and no > software except maybe a primitive DOS and a BASIC interpreter, > expandability was very important. You had to protect your initial > investment. > > And that was 1980 dollars. That's like spending $6,000 today on a > computer. Or $8,000 including a monitor and some software. Or > $28,000 including that 10MB hard drive. I feel bad for anyone who spent that much money on a computer back in the day, only to be told that it was obsolete a year or two later. The only affordable options for most people were Atari 800s, Commodore 64s or TI994/As, everything else seemed to require us to take a second mortgage on our homes. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m4h5o0F4mfhU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #688119 |
On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 11:01:05 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: > I feel bad for anyone who spent that much money on a computer back in > the day, only to be told that it was obsolete a year or two later. The > only affordable options for most people were Atari 800s, Commodore 64s > or TI994/As, everything else seemed to require us to take a second > mortgage on our homes. When the Osborne 1 came out in 1981 I was happy to pay $1800 for it. I got several years use from it before inevitably getting dragged into the MSDOS world. Later I bought two of the mythical Osborne Executives when the Boston Globe was dumping them for PCs. They went at fire sale prices and I couldn't resist.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #688064 |
On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: > In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. > > Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And > steak costs more than chicken. > > What is your point? > > But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even > mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xxxxxx-775AD6.10354825032025@news.supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #688106 |
In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: > > In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, > > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is > >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I > >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. > > > > Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And > > steak costs more than chicken. > > > > What is your point? > > > > But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even > > mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? > > He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a > walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple > Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying > for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your > hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, > this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, > once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. > You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use > a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. Macs continue to run fine. I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine. I have this ancient Dual G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine. I am using screen sharing (the equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher. I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine. No "loss of control" here. And if installing Linux means you are "in control" then I would rather be "out of control".
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <tuf5uj5e2dv4d07jfmorvfei1d2vgpo8df@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #688117 |
Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> wrote: >In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>, > CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >> > In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >> > Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >> >> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >> >> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >> > >> > Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >> > steak costs more than chicken. >> > >> > What is your point? >> > >> > But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >> > mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >> >> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a >> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple >> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying >> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your >> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, >> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, >> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. >> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use >> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. > >Macs continue to run fine. > >I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine. I have this ancient Dual >G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine. I am using screen sharing (the >equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type >this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher. > >I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box >AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine. > >No "loss of control" here. And if installing Linux means you are "in >control" then I would rather be "out of control". It's control of what makes up the system, without that you pay a premium to an OEM like Apple. I assembled my computer from parts, I installed the OS and all fresh, myself. Having to deal with an OEM would just kill my spirit. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <3CzEP.483868$f81.134402@fx48.iad> |
| In reply to | #688117 |
On 2025-03-25 10:35, Johnny LaRue wrote: > In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>, > CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > >> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >>> >>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >>> steak costs more than chicken. >>> >>> What is your point? >>> >>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >>> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >> >> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a >> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple >> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying >> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your >> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, >> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, >> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. >> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use >> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. > > Macs continue to run fine. > > I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine. I have this ancient Dual > G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine. I am using screen sharing (the > equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type > this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher. > > I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box > AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine. > > No "loss of control" here. And if installing Linux means you are "in > control" then I would rather be "out of control". On this old Mac, the only advantage I would get from using MacOS is that the webcam would work without issue. It is possible to get it working in Linux, but it will stop working one kernel update later. The choice is therefore between using an outdated MacOS which becomes less secure with every passing day but properly supports the hardware or a secure Linux which doesn't allow every component to work out of the box. I chose Linux since I don't need to be seen through this camera anyway. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage John 14:6
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <vrv9hu$997i$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #688120 |
On 2025-03-25 15:04:30 +0000, CrudeSausage said: > On 2025-03-25 10:35, Johnny LaRue wrote: >> In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>, >> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >>>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>>>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >>>> >>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >>>> steak costs more than chicken. >>>> >>>> What is your point? >>>> >>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >>>> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >>> >>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a >>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple >>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying >>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your >>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, >>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, >>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. >>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use >>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. >> >> Macs continue to run fine. >> >> I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine. I have this ancient Dual >> G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine. I am using screen sharing (the >> equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type >> this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher. >> >> I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box >> AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine. >> >> No "loss of control" here. And if installing Linux means you are "in >> control" then I would rather be "out of control". > > On this old Mac, the only advantage I would get from using MacOS is > that the webcam would work without issue. It is possible to get it > working in Linux, but it will stop working one kernel update later. The > choice is therefore between using an outdated MacOS which becomes less > secure with every passing day Old devices actually become *more* secure because most of the hackers and malware makers, like every other fool, insist on moving to the very latest shiny new toy on the block with the most users and "zero-day" holes, rather than wasting time on an old version of the OS with a dwindling user base. Besides which, Macs are more secure out of the box to begin with. I've been using and supporting other people's Apple devices since the days of the Apple II and I have never ever seen any of them infected with malware. Windows boxes on the other hand are constantly infected with virus crap (although a little less these days), sometimes to the point that there is so much malware and anti-malware that they struggle to even boot - you just have to blink your eyes "wrong" and Windows gets virus infected. > but properly supports the hardware or a secure Linux which doesn't > allow every component to work out of the box. I chose Linux since I > don't need to be seen through this camera anyway. That is of course because Apple controls the software and the main hardware, so they know exactly what they have put in the OS to make it work. Windows, Linux, Andoird, etc. are separate from the hardware maker, so have to try to support numerous different combinations of varying hardware. There's the largely true (again a little less so these days) old saying: "Mac has plug and play, Windows has plug and pray." :-)
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <vrv9vd$9mgl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #688117 |
On 2025-03-25 14:35:48 +0000, Johnny LaRue said: > In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>, > CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > >> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >>> >>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >>> steak costs more than chicken. >>> >>> What is your point? >>> >>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >>> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? >> >> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a >> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple >> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying >> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your >> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, >> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, >> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. >> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use >> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. > > Macs continue to run fine. > > I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine. I have this ancient Dual > G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine. I am using screen sharing (the > equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type > this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher. > > I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box > AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine. > > No "loss of control" here. And if installing Linux means you are "in > control" then I would rather be "out of control". I used my beige G3 for 20 years, daily use, before it died with a motherboard hardware failure. I replaced it with a 2014 Mac Mini (bought new in 2018) that is still running fine with High Sierra - they only noticeable "problem" is the old version of Safari starting to have issues with the very occasional website, but switching to Firefox solves that and I can't be bothered updating to a newer version of MacOS and the various apps.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vruu2r$3umka$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #688106 |
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: > On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >> >> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >> steak costs more than chicken. >> >> What is your point? >> >> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? > > He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a > walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple > Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying > for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your > hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, > this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, > once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. > You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use > a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. You can also update via OCLP.
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <vrv9it$997i$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #688106 |
On 2025-03-25 12:47:39 +0000, CrudeSausage said: > On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote: >> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>, >> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> A Mac mini would be $1400. What I could build for that is >>> unbelievable. Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK. I >>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first. >> >> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell. And BMWs cost more than Chevys. And >> steak costs more than chicken. >> >> What is your point? >> >> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"? What does that even >> mean? My Macs are somehow "out of control"? > > He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a > walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple > Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying > for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your > hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine, > this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However, > once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck. > You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its > use a danger if you are connecting to the Internet. If you really wanted to, you can install Linux on a Mac that is supposedly "too old" as well.
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