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Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues

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  Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-01 21:55 +0000
    Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-01 19:07 -0500
      Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-01 20:11 -0500
        Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 03:24 +0000
          Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-02-02 04:05 +0000
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-02 07:19 -0500
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-02-02 07:55 -0500
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 23:22 +0000
          Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-02 00:08 -0500
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-02 13:57 +0000
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 23:19 +0000
          Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-02-02 16:05 -0500
            Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 23:17 +0000
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-02 19:26 +0000
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-02 14:49 -0500
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:29 -0500
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:26 -0600
              Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-03 02:50 +0000
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-03 04:03 +0000
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-02-02 23:17 -0700
                  Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-03 13:16 +0000
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 20:03 -0500
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-08 20:12 +0000
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 21:06 -0500
      Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-02 07:11 -0500
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:34 +0000
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-07 20:29 -0500
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 06:36 +0000
              Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-08 08:44 +0000
                Re: Kexec (and HyperV) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 06:41 -0500
                Re: Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:42 +0000
                  Re: Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-09 00:25 +0000
              Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-08 09:05 -0500
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:44 +0000
                  Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 19:05 -0500
                  Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-09 13:58 +0000
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 21:18 -0500
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 21:05 -0500
    Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-01 21:53 -0600
    Re: Onslaught of Linux kernel regressions (was Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> - 2025-02-02 21:23 -0500
      Re: Onslaught of Linux kernel regressions (was Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:36 +0000
    Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:41 +0000
      Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 19:14 -0500
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-07 20:26 -0500
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 20:50 -0500
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:57 -0500
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 15:22 +0000
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 11:24 -0500
              Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 18:36 +0000
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 13:49 -0500
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 13:48 -0600
              Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-08 19:43 +0000
                Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 20:41 +0000
                  Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 16:12 -0500
                  Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-09 00:35 +0000
          Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:54 +0000
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 19:07 -0500
            Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-09 00:40 +0000
      Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-18 21:51 +0000
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 17:11 -0500
        Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-19 01:06 +0000

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#685281 — Re: Onslaught of Linux kernel regressions (was Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues)

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:23:37 -0500, DFS wrote:

> There's so many that academics at major institutions write papers about
> them:

You do realize those bugs get fixed as result of those reports, don’t you? 
And usually pretty promptly, too. Indeed, such research often points to 
new tools and methodologies for improving the reliability of the software 
being developed in the first place.

In other words, they are contributing to the greater reliability and 
versatility of the Linux kernel and other open-source software, and to the 
increasing disparity between that and the flaky, fragile, unwieldy house 
of cards that is Microsoft Windows.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685282

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
> create new ones.
>
> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.

Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
quality?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685290

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>
>> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
>> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
>> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
>> create new ones.
>>
>> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
>
>The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
><https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
>This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
>previous revision of the OS.
>
>Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
>Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
>creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
>actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
>quality?


This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
upgrade to Linux.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685301

On Fri, 2/7/2025 7:14 PM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>>
>>> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
>>> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
>>> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
>>> create new ones.
>>>
>>> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
>>
>> The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
>> This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
>> previous revision of the OS.
>>
>> Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
>> Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
>> creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
>> actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
>> quality?
> 
> 
> This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
> upgrade to Linux.
> 

"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
                                                     ^^^^^^^

Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
that if you think there is something in that update for you.

It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.

A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.

That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .

TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685305

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>> [Windows 11 24H2 is in] public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
>> upgrade to Linux.
>
>"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
>                                                     ^^^^^^^
>
>Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
>that if you think there is something in that update for you.
>
>It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.
>
>A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
>which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
>have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.
>
>That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .
>
>TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.


The preview update isn't the only bug I've heard about in Win12 I mean
11 24H2.  Honestly, having an actual good PC, that I assembled from
quality parts, I never encountered bugs with Win11 updates.  That
having been said, it seems worse since I deleted Win11 23H2 early in
that build's life.  Maybe if I'm not running Winblows, M$ expects
everyone else to be smart enough to follow the leader, well, I try, I
post here on COLA, I make Linux look cool, I talk to Copilot in a Web
app, but I can't just wave my hand and make people wake up to how
shitty Winblows is, and replace it.  So the stats remain with Windows
being heavily dominant.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685310

On Fri, 2/7/2025 8:50 PM, Joel wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>> [Windows 11 24H2 is in] public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
>>> upgrade to Linux.
>>
>> "The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
>>                                                     ^^^^^^^
>>
>> Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
>> that if you think there is something in that update for you.
>>
>> It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.
>>
>> A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
>> which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
>> have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.
>>
>> That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .
>>
>> TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.
> 
> 
> The preview update isn't the only bug I've heard about in Win12 I mean
> 11 24H2.  Honestly, having an actual good PC, that I assembled from
> quality parts, I never encountered bugs with Win11 updates.  That
> having been said, it seems worse since I deleted Win11 23H2 early in
> that build's life.  Maybe if I'm not running Winblows, M$ expects
> everyone else to be smart enough to follow the leader, well, I try, I
> post here on COLA, I make Linux look cool, I talk to Copilot in a Web
> app, but I can't just wave my hand and make people wake up to how
> shitty Winblows is, and replace it.  So the stats remain with Windows
> being heavily dominant.
> 

The root cause of some of this, is the pattern I've spotted
where Microsoft is trying to take over all the proprietary
drivers. This is likely why USB DACs got broken. They didn't
get broken because the manufacturer sent an update. And the usual
USB parts of a PC, would have nothing to do with USB DAC health,
that would also not be affecting the operation of USB sticks
or USB disk enclosures and so on.

The USB DACs likely got affected, by some attempt to create a
class driver for the DACs, and failing at it.

But the rest of the symptoms, I don't see a locus there, to predict
where those problems are coming from. Usually the File Explorer
is relatively immune to the churn around it. And if you fouled up
a disk driver... the system isn't going to be able to boot. And the
class drivers for that, haven't been updated in years. It's because
of the simplicity of making read/write work on a disk.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685347

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 2/7/2025 7:14 PM, Joel wrote:
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> >> The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
> >> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
> >> This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
> >> previous revision of the OS.
> >>
> >> Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
> >> Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
> >> creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the ?fixes? are
> >> actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft?s software
> >> quality?
> > 
> > This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
> > upgrade to Linux.
> 
> "The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
> 
> Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
> that if you think there is something in that update for you.
> 
> It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.

  Please don't spoil Lawrence's rants with facts and common sense!

  I've yet to see a Windows critcism from him which is *not* bogus.

  Strange that he apparently feels so insecure about Linux, that he
'needs' to attack Windows for no good reason.

  We Windows users don't feel the need to do the opposite, mainly
because, as they say, "Windows isn't a religion.".

  Why he just can't be happy with what he has, is beyond me.

> A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
> which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
> have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.
> 
> That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .
> 
> TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.

  There you go again, being sensible! What's wrong with some nice FUD,
urban legends, innuendo, fear mongering, etc.!?

  But excuse me, I've got to rush. Got to install a Windows system and
as Lawrence says that "needs to reboot about five times", I need to get
cracking.

  N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685360

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2/7/2025 7:14 PM, Joel wrote:
>> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>[...]
>> >> The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
>> >> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
>> >> This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
>> >> previous revision of the OS.
>> >>
>> >> Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
>> >> Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
>> >> creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the ?fixes? are
>> >> actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft?s software
>> >> quality?
>> > 
>> > This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet,
>> > upgrade to Linux.
>> 
>> "The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
>> 
>> Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
>> that if you think there is something in that update for you.
>> 
>> It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.
>
>  Please don't spoil Lawrence's rants with facts and common sense!
>
>  I've yet to see a Windows critcism from him which is *not* bogus.
>
>  Strange that he apparently feels so insecure about Linux, that he
>'needs' to attack Windows for no good reason.
>
>  We Windows users don't feel the need to do the opposite, mainly
>because, as they say, "Windows isn't a religion.".
>
>  Why he just can't be happy with what he has, is beyond me.
>
>> A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
>> which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
>> have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.
>> 
>> That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .
>> 
>> TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.
>
>  There you go again, being sensible! What's wrong with some nice FUD,
>urban legends, innuendo, fear mongering, etc.!?
>
>  But excuse me, I've got to rush. Got to install a Windows system and
>as Lawrence says that "needs to reboot about five times", I need to get
>cracking.
>
>  N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.


It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're
running vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685375

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> >  N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.
> 
> It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're
> running vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

  Yes, vim and tin, a newsreader of Unix origin.

  But that only shows that you can run good software on a 'bad' OS. And
that goes for us *both*! :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685376

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>> >  N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.
>> 
>> It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're
>> running vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.
>
>  Yes, vim and tin, a newsreader of Unix origin.
>
>  But that only shows that you can run good software on a 'bad' OS. And
>that goes for us *both*! :-)


I like that it demonstrates interoperability - you seem to prefer a
console interface, whereas I am largely desiring a GUI (but not
limited to it, of course).

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685385

On 2/8/25 12:36 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>>   N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.
>>
>> It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're
>> running vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.
> 
>    Yes, vim and tin, a newsreader of Unix origin.
> 
>    But that only shows that you can run good software on a 'bad' OS. And
> that goes for us *both*! :-)


Huh.. Living the American life itself has been good software on a crappy 
OS for decades.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685384

On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:

> It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
> vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685392

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:
> 
> > It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
> > vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.
> 
> Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows. 

  Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows
executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
has.

  If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685393

On Sat, 2/8/2025 3:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
>>> vim under Cygwin.  Couldn't be more equal and opposite.
>>
>> Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows. 
> 
>   Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
> newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
> etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows
> executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
> has.
> 
>   If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
> Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
> Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.
> 

And you don't have to keep an entire Cygwin installation
to make a Cygwin .exe item to work. As long as you
copy the DLLs it needs into a folder, it runs fine
in the portable sense. I run "disktype" in its own
folder, and the Cygwin tree is long gone.

   Paul

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#685416

On 8 Feb 2025 20:41:26 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:


>   Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
> newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
> etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows
> executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
> has.

That's one of my first steps when provisioning a new Windows machine -- 
adding the native Windows tools. I can only take so much of 'ls' failing 
and I never bothered to learn to use 'dir' effectively.
 
>   If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
> Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
> Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.

I have installed Cygwin in the past but at work we used the MKS Nutcracker 
tools and runtime. They didn't play together all that well. Using Cygwin 
for a commercial suite of apps was out. 

I started using DJGPP on DOS. My 'hello world' was porting 
MidnightCommander back to Windows, which is ironic considering it started 
as a port of a Windows app. I did a little work on what is now MinGW. That 
was started by Anders Norlander and carried on by Mumit Khan. I don't know 
who is developing it these days. The philosophy was different, using GNU 
tools to build native Windows apps. Corinna Vinschen at that time took the 
Cygwin route trying to bring POSIX to Windows.

WSL is handy. We had a map product that required a base map. Usually no 
problem but at trade shows a decent internet connection is expensive and 
often sucks. It's fairly easy to create a map tile server using OSM data 
on Linux but a real mess on Windows. Solution: run the tile server on a 
WSL Debian instance on the marketing laptops, with the Windows 
applications on the same machine. I originally thought about running the 
tile server on a mini but that approach led to one less piece of equipment 
to get lost.

Most of my Windows machines are set up for WSL but between here and work 
I've got five dedicated Linux boxes, if you count the Debian derived 
Raspberry Pi OS so I use those. Almost everything I use is cross platform 
anyway so the Linux and Windows boxes are provisioned very similarly. 

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#685410

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:26:52 -0500, Paul wrote:

> "The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
>                                                      ^^^^^^^
> 
> Yeah, we don't install those.

Why not? What is a “preview” supposed to be, really? In movies and TV, 
they are selected snippets of the forthcoming feature, to tease you into 
looking forward to the full thing. But as far as Microsoft is concerned, 
this *is* the feature.

If it’s a public beta test, why don’t they say so? Why can’t they be 
honest and admit that they are using their docile and unsuspecting user 
base as unpaid guinea-pigs for buggy software that will likely cause 
problems for its users? Nay, not just unpaid, but actually paying for the 
privilege?

Unless, of course, “preview” actually means “foretaste of the even worse 
hell to come” ...

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#685412

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:26:52 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
>> "The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
>>                                                      ^^^^^^^
>> 
>> Yeah, we don't install those.
>
>Why not? What is a “preview” supposed to be, really? In movies and TV, 
>they are selected snippets of the forthcoming feature, to tease you into 
>looking forward to the full thing. But as far as Microsoft is concerned, 
>this *is* the feature.
>
>If it’s a public beta test, why don’t they say so? Why can’t they be 
>honest and admit that they are using their docile and unsuspecting user 
>base as unpaid guinea-pigs for buggy software that will likely cause 
>problems for its users? Nay, not just unpaid, but actually paying for the 
>privilege?
>
>Unless, of course, “preview” actually means “foretaste of the even worse 
>hell to come” ...


I never had problems installing the preview updates, but then again I
was using quality hardware, it seems to be the lower end of that which
is plagued with problems in Winblows updates.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#685417

On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:54:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> If it’s a public beta test, why don’t they say so? Why can’t they be
> honest and admit that they are using their docile and unsuspecting user
> base as unpaid guinea-pigs for buggy software that will likely cause
> problems for its users? Nay, not just unpaid, but actually paying for
> the privilege?

I don't think the user base is that docile and unsuspecting. In addition 
to the previews there are the developer and canary channels for the 
Windows Insider program for the braver sorts. No different than running 
Debian Sid.

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#686221

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 21:41:58 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>
>> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
>> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
>> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
>> create new ones.
>>
>> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
>
> The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
> This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
> previous revision of the OS.
>
> Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
> Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely creating
> about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are actually adding
> to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software quality?

You thought it was a fluke? The troubles continue
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-update-breaks-file-explorer-among-other-glitches/>.
Now Microsoft is breaking basic things like File Explorer!

You know how Microsoft is ending free support for Windows 10, and is
pushing everybody to Windows 11? It’s looking more and more like this
will be a step *down* in software quality, not just now but into the
future:

    Each annual Windows update can suffer from bugs, especially after
    being rolled out to millions of users. However, Windows 11 24H2
    has been more problematic than usual. Since its official launch
    last October, the 2024 version has carried with it a host of known
    issues, many of which still haven't been resolved. As we get
    closer to the October 2025 deadline for the Windows 10 support
    cutoff, Microsoft needs to ensure that Windows 11 is a more stable
    and reliable system.

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#686222

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 21:41:58 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
>>
>>> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
>>> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
>>> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
>>> create new ones.
>>>
>>> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
>>
>> The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
>> This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
>> previous revision of the OS.
>>
>> Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
>> Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely creating
>> about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are actually adding
>> to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software quality?
>
>You thought it was a fluke? The troubles continue
><https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-update-breaks-file-explorer-among-other-glitches/>.
>Now Microsoft is breaking basic things like File Explorer!
>
>You know how Microsoft is ending free support for Windows 10, and is
>pushing everybody to Windows 11? It’s looking more and more like this
>will be a step *down* in software quality, not just now but into the
>future:
>
>    Each annual Windows update can suffer from bugs, especially after
>    being rolled out to millions of users. However, Windows 11 24H2
>    has been more problematic than usual. Since its official launch
>    last October, the 2024 version has carried with it a host of known
>    issues, many of which still haven't been resolved. As we get
>    closer to the October 2025 deadline for the Windows 10 support
>    cutoff, Microsoft needs to ensure that Windows 11 is a more stable
>    and reliable system.


If people haven't figured out to switch to Linux, by now, I dunno if
there's any hope for the human race, tech-wise.  M$ is flat-out
telling you not to use their crapware, not to say Linux is *perfect*
either, but I'm damn sure happier with it, by a country mile.  It
takes some doing, some learning, some tinkering, but you end up with a
fabulous, robust system, maybe not having M$ Office and Adobe
Photoshop, but not having useless Win11 either - and that's good
enough for me.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

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