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Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates

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  Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-16 08:55 -0400
    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-17 03:06 +0000
      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-17 08:48 -0400
        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-17 14:04 +0000
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-17 10:14 -0400
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-18 05:36 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:23 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-18 09:35 +0000
                  Wayland (was: Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-18 09:57 +0000
                    Re: Wayland % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:21 -0700
                      Re: Wayland Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-18 12:10 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-18 10:51 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-18 12:08 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-19 10:24 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:20 -0700
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-18 10:11 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:57 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-19 10:01 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-18 07:24 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:51 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:46 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 05:01 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 08:00 -0400
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 22:10 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:48 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:48 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:45 -0400
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 05:00 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 07:59 -0400
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 20:12 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:00 -0400
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 22:08 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 00:58 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-22 01:05 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:16 -0400
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:11 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 07:51 +0000
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:58 -0400
                                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 18:23 +0000
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 15:03 -0400
                                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:45 +0000
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:15 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:09 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:53 -0400
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 18:40 +0000
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:20 +0000
                                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:09 -0400
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:45 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:06 -0400
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:13 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:54 -0400
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-21 10:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-21 12:35 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 20:54 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:19 -0700
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:21 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:46 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:43 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 04:47 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 02:33 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:48 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 04:07 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:02 -0700
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:22 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-23 07:21 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:03 -0700
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:01 -0700
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-24 08:42 -0400
        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:36 +0100
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-18 18:07 +0000
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-19 21:56 +1000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-19 09:15 -0400
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-21 01:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 02:22 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 02:29 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:58 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 04:11 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 07:36 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-23 18:16 -0500
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-24 00:14 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-21 19:40 +1000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-21 10:41 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-04-21 16:09 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 12:22 -0700
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:38 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-04-22 14:47 -0500
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 04:02 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 08:38 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:32 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-22 19:58 +1000
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:43 +0000
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:25 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 12:33 -0700
    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-17 05:02 -0400

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#689384

On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 15:03:14 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

>  I imagine that they did the same in
> some areas of the United States since there are places like Minneapolis
> that have a serious Muslim majority and have turned into the kind of
> shitholes we expect from that religion.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2019/1028/Refugees-poured-into-my-state.-
Here-s-how-it-changed-me

I lived in Sanford Maine in the early '80s. At the time the state was 99% 
white with some minorities in Portland or the Indians here and there. 
Maine is claimed to be the least religious state in the nation but 
Catholicism still has the largest market share due to the French Canadian 
influence. 

Sanford, like Lewiston, was a failing mill town and not the most genteel 
place. I was long gone by the time the Somalis arrived but I was rather 
surprised the initial scouts survived let alone flourished. I guess the 
good old boys were completely beaten down. 

On the plus side the Somalis did wonders for the high school soccer team.

Another part of the backstory is the Somali refugees originally were sent 
to Georgia during the Clinton administration. They did not get along too 
well with the homegrown Georgia blacks hence their search for a new home 
with a good welfare program.

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#689393

On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 08:58:27 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> I'll be honest and say that I probably don't have the time to look at
>> all those links. My biggest gripe is how the education system here in
>> Quebec, which used to be separate by religion rather than language,
>> threw the baby out with the bathwater. If you were Catholic, there was a
>> time until the late 90s when you could be sure that your child at least
>> got the basics of his or her religion from school. Your job as a parent
>> was to fill the blanks or go much further should you choose to. If you
>> weren't Catholic, your child would go to all the same classes except for
>> Religion and go to a class called Morals instead. It worked fine, but
>> they decided to get rid of that in 1997 or so because, to them, religion
>> was outdated. The result is a generation of kids without any kind of
>> morality that latches onto whatever idiotic trend of the day. In many
>> cases, they make heroes out of drug dealers, pimps, murderers and
>> terrorists all the while demonizing the victims of their crimes. It's
>> too late to go back now, but doing so would at least create a path to
>> enlightenment for some of these kids.
>
> I don't believe that was ever the case in the US. When I was in grade 
> school Wednesday was a short day. It was a small town so the Catholic kids 
> would line up an march west to St. Jude's school for religious instruction 
> by a cadre of nuns. Similarly the Protestant kids would march east to the 
> Dutch Reformed church for their instruction. I don't know what the 
> Protestants of other denominations, if any, did. I think the Reformed 
> classes were generic. 

The Mormans still do this in Idaho, during school hours. They build their 
education centers right by the schools.

> The same was done in high school but I opted out early some my memory is 
> less clear. 
>
> Of course the Catholic parents could choose to send their kids to St. 
> Jude's school and later to Catholic Central High School for more exposure. 
> There were also two military style high schools for boys, LaSalle 
> Institute and Christian Brothers Academy. 
>
> However, religion was not part of the public school experience explicitly. 
> At least in grade school there were no Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc so the 
> base assumption was we were living in a Christian nation.
>
> I forget if I was in second or third grade when 'under God' was added to 
> the Pledge of Allegiance by Eisenhower partly due to a promotion campaign 
> by the KofC. 
>


-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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#689352

On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
>
> Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he 
> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African 
> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African 
> bishops are as unwoke as it gets. 

I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in 
Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They 
absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to 
force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689359

On 2025-04-22 02:09, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>
>>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
>>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
>>
>> Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
>> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
>> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
>> bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
> 
> I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
> Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They
> absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to
> force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.

I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an 
obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government 
will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because 
of BRICS.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
LibreOffice supporter
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689365

On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 08:53:20 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an
> obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government
> will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because
> of BRICS.

It would be more correct to say investment by the IMF, of which Canada is 
a member. Trudeau certainly is a WEF poster child and by extension a IMF 
fan. Of course Biden's puppet masters were fully on board too. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689394

On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-04-22 02:09, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
>>>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
>>>
>>> Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
>>> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
>>> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
>>> bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
>> 
>> I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
>> Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They
>> absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to
>> force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.
>
> I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an 
> obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government 
> will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because 
> of BRICS.

It might be the death of the Rothschild Empire.

My dad can't wait for the collapse to happen. I'm not nearly as anxious 
because (along with the collapse of Rothschilds) it will take down our 
country economically. I'm pretty old, but I've got kids (and grandkids) and 
I don't want to see this hardship for them.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689405

On 2025-04-23 01:20, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-22 02:09, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
>>>>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
>>>> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
>>>> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
>>>> bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
>>>
>>> I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
>>> Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They
>>> absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to
>>> force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.
>>
>> I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an
>> obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government
>> will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because
>> of BRICS.
> 
> It might be the death of the Rothschild Empire.
> 
> My dad can't wait for the collapse to happen. I'm not nearly as anxious
> because (along with the collapse of Rothschilds) it will take down our
> country economically. I'm pretty old, but I've got kids (and grandkids) and
> I don't want to see this hardship for them.

I don't want to see this hardship either, but the reality is that the 
longer it is strengthened, the worse our society will become. We've 
already gotten to the point where our news omits important details to 
condition us for a specific narrative, they've already deployed poisons 
in the name of vaccines, they've turned criminals into heroes, they're 
busy making pedophilia acceptable and pedophiles into victims, etc.. 
Clearly, if our establishment doesn't crumble, every one of our values 
will be eradicated and the society that emerges won't be one we will 
want to live in anyway.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
LibreOffice supporter
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689423

On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-04-23 01:20, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-22 02:09, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
>>>>>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
>>>>> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
>>>>> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
>>>>> bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
>>>> Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They
>>>> absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to
>>>> force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.
>>>
>>> I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an
>>> obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government
>>> will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because
>>> of BRICS.
>> 
>> It might be the death of the Rothschild Empire.
>> 
>> My dad can't wait for the collapse to happen. I'm not nearly as anxious
>> because (along with the collapse of Rothschilds) it will take down our
>> country economically. I'm pretty old, but I've got kids (and grandkids) and
>> I don't want to see this hardship for them.
>
> I don't want to see this hardship either, but the reality is that the 
> longer it is strengthened, the worse our society will become. We've 
> already gotten to the point where our news omits important details to 
> condition us for a specific narrative, they've already deployed poisons 
> in the name of vaccines, they've turned criminals into heroes, they're 
> busy making pedophilia acceptable and pedophiles into victims, etc.. 
> Clearly, if our establishment doesn't crumble, every one of our values 
> will be eradicated and the society that emerges won't be one we will 
> want to live in anyway.

I can't argue with you, but I still don't want my kids and grandkids to go 
through this bullshit.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689343

On 4/21/25 18:08, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-04-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 4/21/25 01:00, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
>>>>>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
>>>>>>> computing world put together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?  Many Desktop
>>>>>> Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
>>>>>> I understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
>>>>> to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem
>>>>> completely ready to me.
>>>>
>>>> It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been
>>>> rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or
>>>> Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if
>>>> your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external
>>>> monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better
>>>> than X11.
>>>
>>> Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really
>>> "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I
>>> didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under
>>> Wayland.
>>>
>>> As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need
>>> them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with
>>> X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external
>>> monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it
>>> built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I
>>> wanted it.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters?
>>> This is something I use fairly often.
>>
>> I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
>> To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
>> have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
>> since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
> 
> I use them mostly for en and em dashes, sometimes for degrees (it's 60°F
> currently where I live), for the euro € or pound £, or sometimes the
> copyright symbol ©. The – — (the en and em dash) doesn't look different in
> the terminal).
> 
> ✝ Happy Easter Monday ✝
> 
> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic Pope
> instead of another Woke one this time.

I'm actually sure that's the way they'll go. I think Francis was an 
experiment, and they're glad to see it end.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
LibreOffice supporter
John 14:6

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689354

On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 4/21/25 18:08, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-04-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 4/21/25 01:00, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
>>>>>>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
>>>>>>>> computing world put together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?  Many Desktop
>>>>>>> Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
>>>>>>> I understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
>>>>>> to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem
>>>>>> completely ready to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been
>>>>> rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or
>>>>> Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if
>>>>> your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external
>>>>> monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better
>>>>> than X11.
>>>>
>>>> Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really
>>>> "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I
>>>> didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under
>>>> Wayland.
>>>>
>>>> As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need
>>>> them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with
>>>> X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external
>>>> monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it
>>>> built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I
>>>> wanted it.
>>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters?
>>>> This is something I use fairly often.
>>>
>>> I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
>>> To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
>>> have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
>>> since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
>> 
>> I use them mostly for en and em dashes, sometimes for degrees (it's 60°F
>> currently where I live), for the euro € or pound £, or sometimes the
>> copyright symbol ©. The – — (the en and em dash) doesn't look different in
>> the terminal).
>> 
>> ✝ Happy Easter Monday ✝
>> 
>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic Pope
>> instead of another Woke one this time.
>
> I'm actually sure that's the way they'll go. I think Francis was an 
> experiment, and they're glad to see it end.

I hope so. But I'm not as sure as you are.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689360

On 2025-04-22 02:13, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 4/21/25 18:08, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/25 01:00, RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
>>>>>>>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
>>>>>>>>> computing world put together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?  Many Desktop
>>>>>>>> Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
>>>>>>>> I understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
>>>>>>> to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem
>>>>>>> completely ready to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been
>>>>>> rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or
>>>>>> Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if
>>>>>> your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external
>>>>>> monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better
>>>>>> than X11.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really
>>>>> "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I
>>>>> didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under
>>>>> Wayland.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need
>>>>> them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with
>>>>> X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external
>>>>> monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it
>>>>> built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I
>>>>> wanted it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters?
>>>>> This is something I use fairly often.
>>>>
>>>> I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
>>>> To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
>>>> have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
>>>> since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
>>>
>>> I use them mostly for en and em dashes, sometimes for degrees (it's 60°F
>>> currently where I live), for the euro € or pound £, or sometimes the
>>> copyright symbol ©. The – — (the en and em dash) doesn't look different in
>>> the terminal).
>>>
>>> ✝ Happy Easter Monday ✝
>>>
>>> Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic Pope
>>> instead of another Woke one this time.
>>
>> I'm actually sure that's the way they'll go. I think Francis was an
>> experiment, and they're glad to see it end.
> 
> I hope so. But I'm not as sure as you are.

Well, if the next Pope is a Filipino ladyboy who talks about 72 genders 
and enjoys "girl cock," we will have our answer.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
LibreOffice supporter
John 14:6

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#689301

On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:23:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
>> computing world put together.
> 
> Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?

Of course not.

> Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
> Wayland, from what I understand.

They will be updated, don’t worry. Wayland is just a low-level engine for 
managing drawing on the screen from multiple client applications, nothing 
more. It doesn’t dictate any kind of GUI style or toolkit or whatever. X11 
was sort of the same, but Wayland is even more minimalist.

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#689305

On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 05:46:48 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> 
>> Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
>> Wayland, from what I understand.
> 
> They will be updated, don’t worry. 
>

Wayland is only half of the problem.  The other part is the support of X
by the major GUI toolkits such as GTK+ and Qt.  Currently, GTK+ and Qt
support both X and Wayland but in the future they are almost certain to
drop X.  When that happens, huge swaths of GNU/Linux software will be
screwed.



-- 
Hail Linux!  Hail FOSS!  Hail Stallman!

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#689311

On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 05:46:48 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vu4m47$1htqd$2@dont-email.me>:

> On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:23:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
>>> computing world put together.
>> 
>> Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
>> Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
>> Wayland, from what I understand.
> 
> They will be updated, don’t worry. Wayland is just a low-level engine
> for managing drawing on the screen from multiple client applications,
> nothing more. It doesn’t dictate any kind of GUI style or toolkit or
> whatever. X11 was sort of the same, but Wayland is even more minimalist.

With Wayland, the display server is in the window manager, and the whole
thing is known as the "compositor".

Fortunately, there's some common code that can be used for the display
server part of the window manager:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "As easy as 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716"

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#689322

On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 05:46:48 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> They will be updated, don’t worry. Wayland is just a low-level engine
> for managing drawing on the screen from multiple client applications,
> nothing more. It doesn’t dictate any kind of GUI style or toolkit or
> whatever. X11 was sort of the same, but Wayland is even more minimalist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Toolkit_Intrinsics

There's a nice graphic showing the relationships in the X Window System. 
We worked with Motif and the documentation consists of 6 rather thick 
books. Most of the GUI work could be done with the Motif library (Xm) but 
somehow you always wound up punching down into Xt and XLib for stuff like 
XtSetSensitive() or handling events. 

One of the selling points / drawbacks of Wayland is the windows are 
sandboxed. With X you had access to the X Server itself and not much limit 
to what evil you could get up to. Drag and drop, for example, was done in 
X rather than the DE.

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#689164

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> 
>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
> 
> On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
> computing world put together.
> 
then why does its users all complain about it and ,
why isn't eveyone using it and what can it do ,
that my computer can't do

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#689149

On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>
>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, never.
>>>
>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>
>> 
>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>> desktop config.
>
> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple 
> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an 
> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more 
> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do 
> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be 
> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike 
> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also 
> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be 
> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>
>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>> most.
>
> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who 
> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so 
> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that 
> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in 
> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or 
> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>


I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
appealing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689198

On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>
>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>
>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>
>>> 
>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>> desktop config.
>>
>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple 
>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an 
>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more 
>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do 
>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be 
>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike 
>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also 
>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be 
>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>
>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>> most.
>>
>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who 
>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so 
>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that 
>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in 
>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or 
>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>
>
>
> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
> appealing.

I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I 
say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what 
little Mac experience I have.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689234

On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>> desktop config.
>>>
>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>
>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>> most.
>>>
>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>> appealing.
> 
> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
> little Mac experience I have.

I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what 
MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently 
with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only 
manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, 
for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to 
MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under 
the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring 
additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. 
For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional 
software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it 
works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works 
better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.

-- 
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
LibreOffice supporter
John 14:6

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#689295

On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>
>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>
>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>> most.
>>>>
>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>> appealing.
>> 
>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>> little Mac experience I have.
>
> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what 
> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently 
> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only 
> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, 
> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to 
> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under 
> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring 
> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. 
> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional 
> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it 
> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works 
> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.

I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll 
not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are 
a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them 
in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better 
than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

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