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Breyers Yogurt

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  Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 11:13 +0000
    Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 13:16 +0200
      Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 12:03 +0000
        Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 07:38 -0500
          Re: Breyers Yogurt "carlos" <carlos@nospam.com> - 2011-05-04 10:54 -0400
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 17:08 +0200
        Re: Breyers Yogurt "amicus_curious" <acdc@sti.net> - 2011-05-04 08:52 -0400
          Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 16:08 +0000
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 18:12 +0200
              Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 16:22 +0000
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 15:26 -0400
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:30 -0500
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 17:12 -0400
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 12:21 -0400
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 20:00 +0100
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:13 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt "amicus_curious" <acdc@sti.net> - 2011-05-04 18:58 -0400
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:59 -0700
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 16:17 +0200
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 08:02 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 17:12 +0200
            Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:35 +0000
              Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 10:42 -0500
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:05 -0700
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 16:29 +0100
          Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:56 +0000
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:12 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 19:50 +0100
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 12:50 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 20:03 +0000
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 13:16 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:26 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> - 2011-05-04 23:09 +0000
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 16:21 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-04 17:16 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 14:23 -0700
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-04 17:36 -0400
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 14:45 -0700
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-04 22:06 -0400
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-05 13:11 -0500
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 12:13 -0700
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 21:34 +0200
                          Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:23 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-04 17:20 -0500
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-05 17:33 +0100
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 09:46 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> - 2011-05-04 23:06 +0000
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 16:19 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-05 07:40 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-05 12:01 -0700
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 16:34 -0400
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 13:58 -0700
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt An Old Friend <an.old@friend.com.invalid> - 2011-05-06 00:09 +0100
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 16:31 -0700
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-06 01:03 +0100
                          Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 21:15 -0700
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:20 -0500
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 18:38 -0400
                        Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 16:33 -0700
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-06 00:51 +0100
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-06 07:31 -0500
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-06 08:35 -0400
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt "Catch the Wave" <zm@nospam.com> - 2011-05-06 09:27 -0400
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchmail.com> - 2011-05-07 07:51 -0400
                      Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-07 14:00 -0400
                    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-07 05:54 -0700
                  Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:16 -0500
              Re: Breyers Yogurt cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-05 11:56 -0700
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:10 -0700
      Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:54 -0700
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 15:58 +0200
    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:53 -0700
    Re: Breyers Yogurt TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 16:53 +0000
      Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:21 -0700
    Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-04 13:11 -0400
    Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 15:59 -0400

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#20993

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> Hadron stated in post tr1v0eczxk.fsf@news.eternal-september.org on 5/4/11
> 7:17 AM:
>
>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>> 
>>> owl stated in post sh8fa.0a8w3r@rooftop.invalid on 5/4/11 5:03 AM:
>>> 
>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>>> It would appear that my beloved Breyers Yogurt is no more.  Good thing
>>>>>> that can never happen to Linux.  I'll never wake up one day and find that
>>>>>> Linux is just no longer available.  Capitalism is *so* good for
>>>>>> humanity.
>>>> 
>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>> 
>>>>> There are loads of OTHER yoghurts available.
>>>> 
>>>> Breyers was the best.  And there is no *other* Breyers yogurt, just
>>>> like there is no *other* Windows or Solaris.  Best not to get too happy
>>>> with a proprietary platform.  It might disappear tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> So the proprietary yogurt cost more but had higher quality.  The open source
>>> yogurts are just not as good.
>>> 
>>> Good analogy for how most people see Linux.
>>> 
>>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers at a guess. If people
>>>>> really wanted it, someone would make it.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't care why.  I just want my Black Cherry Fruit on the Bottom
>>>> Breyers Yogurt.  But now I can't have it.  Ever again. :(
>>> 
>>> Right: even though you can use the open source options and tweak them how
>>> *you* want, with essentially infinite flexibility, you want what the experts
>>> produced - the options they pre-selected for you because, face it, they were
>>> experts in yogurt and you are not.  Could you make yours as good - perhaps,
>>> but not without a lot of work and likely not with the same consistency.
>>> Consistency is important to yogurt.  I do not like mine runny.
>>> 
>>> Good analogy for how many people see Linux.  Interesting topic - thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Bwahahahahahaha. What a beotch slapping for Owl. I almost feel sorry for
>> him.
>> 
>> So his "choice" is a shelf Yoghurt! Did it have a "monopoly"?
>> hahahahaha.
>> 
>> Good job their Snit. I bet Owl wished he'd never been sent on this
>> "advocacy" skirmish by his master Roy now ;)
>> 
>> 
> Well, he whined about the loss of the proprietary stuff because it is better
> than the alternatives - including the open source ones.  Then he compared
> this to OSs... 
>
> He made the exact opposite point he meant to.

It's because he's a cowboy I guess. It's the hat. Not enough tin foil in
it.

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#21003

Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bwahahahahahaha. What a beotch slapping for Owl. I almost feel sorry for
> him.

> So his "choice" is a shelf Yoghurt! Did it have a "monopoly"?
> hahahahaha.

> Good job their Snit. I bet Owl wished he'd never been sent on this
> "advocacy" skirmish by his master Roy now ;)

Spamowitz is hardly my master, and what you fail to see about this
little incident is that I had chosen what I considered to be the *best*
yogurt for my needs, just as Windows is considered to be the best OS
choice for some people.  But my choice ended up being a *mistake*, and
that speaks to the choice of a proprietary software solution, since even
though it may be the best solution for a customer's needs, that customer
can still find himself left out in the cold at the whim of the vendor,
just a I was with my choice of yogurts.

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#21005

> Hadron quacked:
>
>> Bwahahahahahaha. What a beotch slapping for Owl. I almost feel sorry for
>> him.
>
>> So his "choice" is a shelf Yoghurt! Did it have a "monopoly"?
>> hahahahaha.
>
>> Good job their Snit. I bet Owl wished he'd never been sent on this
>> "advocacy" skirmish by his master Roy now ;)

What a whack job.

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#21040

owl stated in post n7a04fa.n9uga@rooftop.invalid on 5/4/11 8:35 AM:

> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Bwahahahahahaha. What a beotch slapping for Owl. I almost feel sorry for
>> him.
> 
>> So his "choice" is a shelf Yoghurt! Did it have a "monopoly"?
>> hahahahaha.
> 
>> Good job their Snit. I bet Owl wished he'd never been sent on this
>> "advocacy" skirmish by his master Roy now ;)
> 
> Spamowitz is hardly my master, and what you fail to see about this
> little incident is that I had chosen what I considered to be the *best*
> yogurt for my needs, just as Windows is considered to be the best OS
> choice for some people.  But my choice ended up being a *mistake*, and
> that speaks to the choice of a proprietary software solution, since even
> though it may be the best solution for a customer's needs, that customer
> can still find himself left out in the cold at the whim of the vendor,
> just a I was with my choice of yogurts.

You were mistaken to get Breyers Fruit at the Bottom Black Cherry.

You should have decided to get something different?  Something you did not
like as much simply because it *might* go away.  That is... odd.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

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#21001

Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers

LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies, they
care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name, except
to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for some reason.

> I don't care why.  I just want my Black Cherry Fruit on the Bottom
> Breyers Yogurt.  But now I can't have it.  Ever again. :(

Yes you can. Just make it yourself.

The yoghurt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F1DGw8QLCE

The fruit compote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xobo3vCP8Vw

Easy.

-- 
K.                           | "Linux hackers are on a mission
http://slated.org            |  from God" ~ The Vatican
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | 
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 78 days  | http://tinyurl.com/linuxmission

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#21011

Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
> > Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers

> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies, they
> care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name, except
> to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for some reason.

It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was associated 
with the high quality yogurt I preferred.


> > I don't care why.  I just want my Black Cherry Fruit on the Bottom
> > Breyers Yogurt.  But now I can't have it.  Ever again. :(

> Yes you can. Just make it yourself.

> The yoghurt:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F1DGw8QLCE

> The fruit compote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xobo3vCP8Vw

> Easy.

That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
though.

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#21052

owl stated in post na97ua4t.nb08ag4@rooftop.invalid on 5/4/11 8:56 AM:

> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
> 
>> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies, they
>> care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name, except
>> to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for some reason.
> 
> It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
> Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
> group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was associated
> with the high quality yogurt I preferred.

Right: the proprietary solution, made by people who made choices for you
based on their expertise, was the "high quality" solution.

>>> I don't care why.  I just want my Black Cherry Fruit on the Bottom
>>> Breyers Yogurt.  But now I can't have it.  Ever again. :(
> 
>> Yes you can. Just make it yourself.
> 
>> The yoghurt:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F1DGw8QLCE
> 
>> The fruit compote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xobo3vCP8Vw
> 
>> Easy.
> 
> That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.

I have heard people say much the same about desktop Linux.  Your analogy
here is excellent. 

> Not likely to be able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of
> the Breyers though.

Yes: the expert solutions are generally able to offer better consistency,
etc.  Less choices, of course, but nearer to what you call "perfect".



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

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#21100

Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
>>
>> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies,
>> they care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name,
>> except to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for
>> some reason.
>
> It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
> Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
> group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was
> associated with the high quality yogurt I preferred.

Er, IOW the finished product.

The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly. It's a business, not a
football team. But if one is the sort of person who worships
materialism, then businesses become temples, corporate bigwigs become
gods, and the entire premise of commerce becomes like a religious cult.
That's what (I would guess) motivates pretty much every anti-Linux nut
in this group. It challenges the sanctity of corporatism and libertarian
ideals.

And even WRT the end products, the fact that I sometimes buy a certain
product doesn't make me think in terms of "supporting" that product. I'm
just as likely to buy a competing product next time, or something
completely unrelated, or nothing at all - and just make it myself. The
fact that something's "good" doesn't mean that nothing else is. I'd have
to try them first to find out, and with many things (especially food)
there are more choices than one man could ever possibly try in a single
lifetime. I'm damned sure those companies are not loyal to me, so why
the hell should I be loyal to them? Why should I limit my experiences
for their benefit?

With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson
in misguided loyalty.

> That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
> able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
> though.

You may surprise yourself, and anyway it's not like you have a choice
now, is it, given that you believe this brand was irreplaceable?

Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.

In the case of yoghurt in particular, it's utterly trivial to do so. It
literally takes seconds (of actual work). You may even end up with
something /better/, given enough experimentation. Of course you'll never
know unless you try.

Beware brand fixation. It's a creeping disease spread by advertisers,
and claims millions of victims every year. Of course, people usually
don't realise they're infected until it's too late, and the "brand"
they've been brainwashed into becoming addicted to goes belly-up. Some
of those people go on to become addicted to other "brands" instead. Some
are cured, and discover the truth about no-name products, autonomy, and
other things advertisers don't want you to know about.

Years ago I had a brand fixation on a yoghurt product called "Müller's
Thick 'n Creamy". It was a plain yoghurt with a sweeter flavour and
creamier texture, and I absolutely loved it. Then, predictably, one day
some marketing dilbert decided it was 0.0000000001% less profitable than
some other bullshit, and Müller unceremoniously axed it without warning,
so some fat executive could have an extra 0.00000001 cent in his pocket
every year. I was devastated.

Then one day I bought a tub of no-name plain yoghurt, double cream, and
various other things as part of my weekly shopping. I had intended using
the yoghurt to make biryani, and the cream with some strawberries, but I
ended up forgetting about them, and the other ingredients got used in
other dishes. So I was left with some yoghurt and cream that were both
in danger of going off soon. Just for the hell of it, I mixed them
together. Quelle surprise ... "Müller's Thick 'n Creamy". I kid ye not.
So much for /that/ "unique" product.

There's so many examples like that in your typical supermarket, I don't
know where to begin. Nearly every pack of real butter is identical, for
example, except for salted vs. unsalted. Seriously, buy two completely
different brands of salted butter, and taste them for yourself. Heck,
they're probably both made in the same dairy.

Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety. Think about it, how
many different types of sodium chloride do you think there are, anyway?
It's a crystalline compound with a simple chemical formula for God's
sake, it's not like two refined samples of it could be radically
different. And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
price, or more.  Idiots.

That's "brand" fixation for you. Most of the so-called "differentiation"
in most products is pure marketing, indeed a lot of the same type of
products are, in reality, manufactured by just one or two companies,
usually in some foreign country using cheap labour, then "branded", with
each "brand" being sold at sometimes radically different prices. Just
look at Apple, as one of the most stereotypical examples.

I do a hell of a lot of cooking. A /hell/ of a lot. In particular I do a
lot of Indian dishes, and I always cook from scratch ... no "sauce jars"
in this house. The thing about Indian food is it requires a lot of
yoghurt, as that's the base for many sauces. Where I live is the back of
beyond though, so asking for "exotic" items like yoghurt usually invites
blank stares and questions like "are you on a diet?" Think John
Boorman's "Deliverance" but with fewer shops. So if I want yoghurt, I
either have to travel miles into civilisation or make it myself.

Once I discovered how easy it is I never bought another tub of yoghurt
ever again. I soon discovered how easy it is to make butter from yoghurt
too, and the ghee (clarified butter - essential in a lot of Indian
dishes) made from that butter is far superior to that made from
supermarket butter as well.

That's the thing about autonomy. Once you make the effort to learn how
things work, you discover the answers to how other things work too, in a
sort of cascading effect, because it's all connected. Then you don't
need to worry about what some corporate dilbert has decided is best for
you, you can decide that for yourself.

-- 
K.                           | "Linux hackers are on a mission
http://slated.org            |  from God" ~ The Vatican
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky   | 
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 78 days  | http://tinyurl.com/linuxmission

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#21113

Homer stated in post moj898-oki.ln1@sky.matrix on 5/4/11 11:50 AM:

> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
>>> 
>>> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies,
>>> they care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name,
>>> except to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for
>>> some reason.
>> 
>> It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
>> Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
>> group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was
>> associated with the high quality yogurt I preferred.
> 
> Er, IOW the finished product.
> 
> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly. It's a business, not a
> football team. 

A football team is a business, too... yet you just implied you understand
supporting such businesses.  A business which has no tangible product.
Frankly I do not get that, either.  I do get taking pleasure in a company
doing well if that company produces a product I enjoy and value: esp. a tech
product where the advancement of the product depends, to a large degree, on
how well the company does.  With Apple doing so well I can be confident OS X
and other Apple products will be around for some time and will continue to
improve.  Excellent.

> But if one is the sort of person who worships materialism, then businesses
> become temples, corporate bigwigs become gods, and the entire premise of
> commerce becomes like a religious cult. That's what (I would guess) motivates
> pretty much every anti-Linux nut in this group. It challenges the sanctity of
> corporatism and libertarian ideals.

What?  I enjoy a product and want it to remain on the market and continue to
improve.

> And even WRT the end products, the fact that I sometimes buy a certain
> product doesn't make me think in terms of "supporting" that product. I'm
> just as likely to buy a competing product next time, or something
> completely unrelated, or nothing at all - and just make it myself.

Sure: if something were to offer me a better experience than what Apple
offers me with Macs, I would "jump ship" tomorrow.  No problem with that.

> The fact that something's "good" doesn't mean that nothing else is.

Yet look at how you lash out against non-OSS products.

> I'd have to try them first to find out, and with many things (especially food)
> there are more choices than one man could ever possibly try in a single
> lifetime. I'm damned sure those companies are not loyal to me, so why the hell
> should I be loyal to them? Why should I limit my experiences for their
> benefit?

Who said you should?  Sounds like you are confused.

> With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson in
> misguided loyalty.

How dare he enjoy that brand of yogurt!  What a miserable thing for him to
do!

What?

>> That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
>> able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
>> though.
> 
> You may surprise yourself, and anyway it's not like you have a choice
> now, is it, given that you believe this brand was irreplaceable?
> 
> Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
> their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
> reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.

It is not always so easy.  But if you think it is, do you make your own CPU?

> In the case of yoghurt in particular, it's utterly trivial to do so. It
> literally takes seconds (of actual work). You may even end up with
> something /better/, given enough experimentation. Of course you'll never
> know unless you try.

Sure: but most people are not interested in doing so.  Full disclosure, my
family *has* made our own yogurt on many occasions.  I have nothing against
people doing so - just as I have nothing against OSS.

> Beware brand fixation. It's a creeping disease spread by advertisers,
> and claims millions of victims every year. Of course, people usually
> don't realise they're infected until it's too late, and the "brand"
> they've been brainwashed into becoming addicted to goes belly-up. Some
> of those people go on to become addicted to other "brands" instead. Some
> are cured, and discover the truth about no-name products, autonomy, and
> other things advertisers don't want you to know about.

You speak of him liking one type of yogurt as a disease.  That is... odd.
To say the least.

> Years ago I had a brand fixation on a yoghurt product called "Müller's
> Thick 'n Creamy". It was a plain yoghurt with a sweeter flavour and
> creamier texture, and I absolutely loved it. Then, predictably, one day
> some marketing dilbert decided it was 0.0000000001% less profitable than
> some other bullshit, and Müller unceremoniously axed it without warning,
> so some fat executive could have an extra 0.00000001 cent in his pocket
> every year. I was devastated.

How dare they decide to sell something that would make them more money and
likely please more people.  How eeeeeeevil of them, eh?

I mean, really, did you write to Crayola and whine about them getting rid of
Lemon Yellow?  

> Then one day I bought a tub of no-name plain yoghurt, double cream, and
> various other things as part of my weekly shopping. I had intended using
> the yoghurt to make biryani, and the cream with some strawberries, but I
> ended up forgetting about them, and the other ingredients got used in
> other dishes. So I was left with some yoghurt and cream that were both
> in danger of going off soon. Just for the hell of it, I mixed them
> together. Quelle surprise ... "Müller's Thick 'n Creamy". I kid ye not.
> So much for /that/ "unique" product.

Oh no!  You found something else you liked.  How dare you!

Not sure what reaction you were looking for - did that do it for you?

> There's so many examples like that in your typical supermarket, I don't
> know where to begin. Nearly every pack of real butter is identical, for
> example, except for salted vs. unsalted. Seriously, buy two completely
> different brands of salted butter, and taste them for yourself. Heck,
> they're probably both made in the same dairy.
> 
> Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
> driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
> so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
> the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety. Think about it, how
> many different types of sodium chloride do you think there are, anyway?
> It's a crystalline compound with a simple chemical formula for God's
> sake, it's not like two refined samples of it could be radically
> different. And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
> price, or more.  Idiots.
> 
> That's "brand" fixation for you. Most of the so-called "differentiation"
> in most products is pure marketing, indeed a lot of the same type of
> products are, in reality, manufactured by just one or two companies,
> usually in some foreign country using cheap labour, then "branded", with
> each "brand" being sold at sometimes radically different prices. Just
> look at Apple, as one of the most stereotypical examples.

Look at them: they sell a product which serves me better than any other
product at a similar price.  What is wrong with making that choice?  Why go
with an inferior product (one that serves *me* less well... and many
others)?

> I do a hell of a lot of cooking. A /hell/ of a lot. In particular I do a
> lot of Indian dishes, and I always cook from scratch ... no "sauce jars"
> in this house. The thing about Indian food is it requires a lot of
> yoghurt, as that's the base for many sauces. Where I live is the back of
> beyond though, so asking for "exotic" items like yoghurt usually invites
> blank stares and questions like "are you on a diet?" Think John
> Boorman's "Deliverance" but with fewer shops. So if I want yoghurt, I
> either have to travel miles into civilisation or make it myself.
> 
> Once I discovered how easy it is I never bought another tub of yoghurt
> ever again. I soon discovered how easy it is to make butter from yoghurt
> too, and the ghee (clarified butter - essential in a lot of Indian
> dishes) made from that butter is far superior to that made from
> supermarket butter as well.

Yes, it is.  I have no problem with that.

> That's the thing about autonomy. Once you make the effort to learn how
> things work, you discover the answers to how other things work too, in a
> sort of cascading effect, because it's all connected. Then you don't
> need to worry about what some corporate dilbert has decided is best for
> you, you can decide that for yourself.

Do you roll your own cigarettes?

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21117

Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
> > Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
> >> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
> >>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
> >>
> >> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies,
> >> they care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name,
> >> except to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for
> >> some reason.
> >
> > It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
> > Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
> > group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was
> > associated with the high quality yogurt I preferred.

> Er, IOW the finished product.

Which I had no way of distinguishing without the brand.

> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly. It's a business, not a
> football team. But if one is the sort of person who worships
> materialism, then businesses become temples, corporate bigwigs become
> gods, and the entire premise of commerce becomes like a religious cult.
> That's what (I would guess) motivates pretty much every anti-Linux nut
> in this group. It challenges the sanctity of corporatism and libertarian
> ideals.

> And even WRT the end products, the fact that I sometimes buy a certain
> product doesn't make me think in terms of "supporting" that product. I'm
> just as likely to buy a competing product next time, or something
> completely unrelated, or nothing at all - and just make it myself. The
> fact that something's "good" doesn't mean that nothing else is. I'd have
> to try them first to find out, and with many things (especially food)
> there are more choices than one man could ever possibly try in a single
> lifetime. I'm damned sure those companies are not loyal to me, so why
> the hell should I be loyal to them? Why should I limit my experiences
> for their benefit?

> With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson
> in misguided loyalty.

I never really thought of it as loyalty.  I was just shocked to find
that I could no longer get my preferred yogurt.  I want my damned yogurt
back.  I don't have time to make yogurt, and the rest of what's
available is not up to par.

> > That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
> > able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
> > though.

> You may surprise yourself, and anyway it's not like you have a choice
> now, is it, given that you believe this brand was irreplaceable?

It's not just my belief.  It's a fact.  Dammit.  I don't have time
for this yogurt making. 

> Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
> their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
> reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.

> In the case of yoghurt in particular, it's utterly trivial to do so. It
> literally takes seconds (of actual work). You may even end up with
> something /better/, given enough experimentation. Of course you'll never
> know unless you try.

> Beware brand fixation. It's a creeping disease spread by advertisers,
> and claims millions of victims every year. Of course, people usually
> don't realise they're infected until it's too late, and the "brand"
> they've been brainwashed into becoming addicted to goes belly-up. Some
> of those people go on to become addicted to other "brands" instead. Some
> are cured, and discover the truth about no-name products, autonomy, and
> other things advertisers don't want you to know about.

> Years ago I had a brand fixation on a yoghurt product called "Müller's
> Thick 'n Creamy". It was a plain yoghurt with a sweeter flavour and
> creamier texture, and I absolutely loved it. Then, predictably, one day
> some marketing dilbert decided it was 0.0000000001% less profitable than
> some other bullshit, and Müller unceremoniously axed it without warning,
> so some fat executive could have an extra 0.00000001 cent in his pocket
> every year. I was devastated.

> Then one day I bought a tub of no-name plain yoghurt, double cream, and
> various other things as part of my weekly shopping. I had intended using
> the yoghurt to make biryani, and the cream with some strawberries, but I
> ended up forgetting about them, and the other ingredients got used in
> other dishes. So I was left with some yoghurt and cream that were both
> in danger of going off soon. Just for the hell of it, I mixed them
> together. Quelle surprise ... "Müller's Thick 'n Creamy". I kid ye not.
> So much for /that/ "unique" product.

> There's so many examples like that in your typical supermarket, I don't
> know where to begin. Nearly every pack of real butter is identical, for
> example, except for salted vs. unsalted. Seriously, buy two completely
> different brands of salted butter, and taste them for yourself. Heck,
> they're probably both made in the same dairy.

> Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
> driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
> so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
> the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety. Think about it, how
> many different types of sodium chloride do you think there are, anyway?
> It's a crystalline compound with a simple chemical formula for God's
> sake, it's not like two refined samples of it could be radically
> different. And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
> price, or more.  Idiots.

> That's "brand" fixation for you. Most of the so-called "differentiation"
> in most products is pure marketing, indeed a lot of the same type of
> products are, in reality, manufactured by just one or two companies,
> usually in some foreign country using cheap labour, then "branded", with
> each "brand" being sold at sometimes radically different prices. Just
> look at Apple, as one of the most stereotypical examples.

> I do a hell of a lot of cooking. A /hell/ of a lot. In particular I do a
> lot of Indian dishes, and I always cook from scratch ... no "sauce jars"
> in this house. The thing about Indian food is it requires a lot of
> yoghurt, as that's the base for many sauces. Where I live is the back of
> beyond though, so asking for "exotic" items like yoghurt usually invites
> blank stares and questions like "are you on a diet?" Think John
> Boorman's "Deliverance" but with fewer shops. So if I want yoghurt, I
> either have to travel miles into civilisation or make it myself.

> Once I discovered how easy it is I never bought another tub of yoghurt
> ever again. I soon discovered how easy it is to make butter from yoghurt
> too, and the ghee (clarified butter - essential in a lot of Indian
> dishes) made from that butter is far superior to that made from
> supermarket butter as well.

> That's the thing about autonomy. Once you make the effort to learn how
> things work, you discover the answers to how other things work too, in a
> sort of cascading effect, because it's all connected. Then you don't
> need to worry about what some corporate dilbert has decided is best for
> you, you can decide that for yourself.

I'm not knocking this make-it-yourself philosophy.  I wish I could do
it.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21118

owl stated in post f9aw3fg.bguabaw3@rooftop.invalid on 5/4/11 1:03 PM:

> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
>>>> 
>>>> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies,
>>>> they care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name,
>>>> except to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for
>>>> some reason.
>>> 
>>> It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
>>> Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
>>> group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was
>>> associated with the high quality yogurt I preferred.
> 
>> Er, IOW the finished product.
> 
> Which I had no way of distinguishing without the brand.
> 
>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly. It's a business, not a
>> football team. But if one is the sort of person who worships
>> materialism, then businesses become temples, corporate bigwigs become
>> gods, and the entire premise of commerce becomes like a religious cult.
>> That's what (I would guess) motivates pretty much every anti-Linux nut
>> in this group. It challenges the sanctity of corporatism and libertarian
>> ideals.
> 
>> And even WRT the end products, the fact that I sometimes buy a certain
>> product doesn't make me think in terms of "supporting" that product. I'm
>> just as likely to buy a competing product next time, or something
>> completely unrelated, or nothing at all - and just make it myself. The
>> fact that something's "good" doesn't mean that nothing else is. I'd have
>> to try them first to find out, and with many things (especially food)
>> there are more choices than one man could ever possibly try in a single
>> lifetime. I'm damned sure those companies are not loyal to me, so why
>> the hell should I be loyal to them? Why should I limit my experiences
>> for their benefit?
> 
>> With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson
>> in misguided loyalty.
> 
> I never really thought of it as loyalty.  I was just shocked to find
> that I could no longer get my preferred yogurt.  I want my damned yogurt
> back.  I don't have time to make yogurt, and the rest of what's
> available is not up to par.

In Homer's world, given how your yogurt is not open source, it cannot be
good.  There is no value to what Breyers offered.  And this is based on
*your* taste.  You should not like what you like.

Yeah, he is a bit insane.

>>> That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
>>> able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
>>> though.
> 
>> You may surprise yourself, and anyway it's not like you have a choice
>> now, is it, given that you believe this brand was irreplaceable?
> 
> It's not just my belief.  It's a fact.  Dammit.  I don't have time
> for this yogurt making.
> 
>> Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
>> their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
>> reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.
> 
>> In the case of yoghurt in particular, it's utterly trivial to do so. It
>> literally takes seconds (of actual work). You may even end up with
>> something /better/, given enough experimentation. Of course you'll never
>> know unless you try.
> 
>> Beware brand fixation. It's a creeping disease spread by advertisers,
>> and claims millions of victims every year. Of course, people usually
>> don't realise they're infected until it's too late, and the "brand"
>> they've been brainwashed into becoming addicted to goes belly-up. Some
>> of those people go on to become addicted to other "brands" instead. Some
>> are cured, and discover the truth about no-name products, autonomy, and
>> other things advertisers don't want you to know about.
> 
>> Years ago I had a brand fixation on a yoghurt product called "Müller's
>> Thick 'n Creamy". It was a plain yoghurt with a sweeter flavour and
>> creamier texture, and I absolutely loved it. Then, predictably, one day
>> some marketing dilbert decided it was 0.0000000001% less profitable than
>> some other bullshit, and Müller unceremoniously axed it without warning,
>> so some fat executive could have an extra 0.00000001 cent in his pocket
>> every year. I was devastated.
> 
>> Then one day I bought a tub of no-name plain yoghurt, double cream, and
>> various other things as part of my weekly shopping. I had intended using
>> the yoghurt to make biryani, and the cream with some strawberries, but I
>> ended up forgetting about them, and the other ingredients got used in
>> other dishes. So I was left with some yoghurt and cream that were both
>> in danger of going off soon. Just for the hell of it, I mixed them
>> together. Quelle surprise ... "Müller's Thick 'n Creamy". I kid ye not.
>> So much for /that/ "unique" product.
> 
>> There's so many examples like that in your typical supermarket, I don't
>> know where to begin. Nearly every pack of real butter is identical, for
>> example, except for salted vs. unsalted. Seriously, buy two completely
>> different brands of salted butter, and taste them for yourself. Heck,
>> they're probably both made in the same dairy.
> 
>> Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
>> driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
>> so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
>> the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety. Think about it, how
>> many different types of sodium chloride do you think there are, anyway?
>> It's a crystalline compound with a simple chemical formula for God's
>> sake, it's not like two refined samples of it could be radically
>> different. And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
>> price, or more.  Idiots.
> 
>> That's "brand" fixation for you. Most of the so-called "differentiation"
>> in most products is pure marketing, indeed a lot of the same type of
>> products are, in reality, manufactured by just one or two companies,
>> usually in some foreign country using cheap labour, then "branded", with
>> each "brand" being sold at sometimes radically different prices. Just
>> look at Apple, as one of the most stereotypical examples.
> 
>> I do a hell of a lot of cooking. A /hell/ of a lot. In particular I do a
>> lot of Indian dishes, and I always cook from scratch ... no "sauce jars"
>> in this house. The thing about Indian food is it requires a lot of
>> yoghurt, as that's the base for many sauces. Where I live is the back of
>> beyond though, so asking for "exotic" items like yoghurt usually invites
>> blank stares and questions like "are you on a diet?" Think John
>> Boorman's "Deliverance" but with fewer shops. So if I want yoghurt, I
>> either have to travel miles into civilisation or make it myself.
> 
>> Once I discovered how easy it is I never bought another tub of yoghurt
>> ever again. I soon discovered how easy it is to make butter from yoghurt
>> too, and the ghee (clarified butter - essential in a lot of Indian
>> dishes) made from that butter is far superior to that made from
>> supermarket butter as well.
> 
>> That's the thing about autonomy. Once you make the effort to learn how
>> things work, you discover the answers to how other things work too, in a
>> sort of cascading effect, because it's all connected. Then you don't
>> need to worry about what some corporate dilbert has decided is best for
>> you, you can decide that for yourself.
> 
> I'm not knocking this make-it-yourself philosophy.  I wish I could do
> it.  

Well, you can: but it would not be the same.  Homer is delusional.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21121

owl wrote:

> I don't have time for this yogurt making. 

Have you tried some organic yogurts?  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21154

On 2011-05-04, owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>
> I never really thought of it as loyalty.  I was just shocked to find
> that I could no longer get my preferred yogurt.  I want my damned yogurt
> back.  I don't have time to make yogurt, and the rest of what's
> available is not up to par.

You don't have time? Heat milk to blood temp, put it in a thermos with a
spoon of 'starter' yoghurt... go to bed and you'll have yoghurt when you
get up in the morning.

-- 
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21157

Gregory Shearman stated in post slrnis3n4d.81k.ZekeGregory@netscape.net on
5/4/11 4:09 PM:

> On 2011-05-04, owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> I never really thought of it as loyalty.  I was just shocked to find
>> that I could no longer get my preferred yogurt.  I want my damned yogurt
>> back.  I don't have time to make yogurt, and the rest of what's
>> available is not up to par.
> 
> You don't have time? Heat milk to blood temp, put it in a thermos with a
> spoon of 'starter' yoghurt... go to bed and you'll have yoghurt when you
> get up in the morning.

That is how to make plain yogurt... which is not to say it will be the same
taste and consistency as what he got with Breyers.  And that does not
include whatever they add to it, when, etc.  They do offer a list of
ingredients, but that does not tell you everything you need to replicate
their product:

    CULTURED PASTEURIZED GRADE A SKIM MILK, SUGAR, CHERRIES,
    FOOD STARCH-MODIFIED, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, CREAM, KOSHER
    GELATIN, NATURAL FLAVOR, PECTIN, ELDERBERRY JUICE CONCENTRATE
    (FOR COLOR).

Frankly I do not like that much sugar in my yogurt and the idea of gelatin
in it is not really appealing.  To each their own though.

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21131

On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:

> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.

Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At 
least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your 
support.



> It's a business, not a football team. But if one is
 > the sort of person who worships materialism,

Yes, that's right, you did claim to be "very well-paid".  And I 
certainly don't see you returning a cent of that money.

And it's not a coincidence - at all - that you became a "software 
activist" ONLY after you made enough money developing/supporting 
proprietary code your entire career.



> then businesses become temples, corporate bigwigs become
> gods, and the entire premise of commerce becomes like a religious cult.
 > That's what (I would guess) motivates pretty much every anti-Linux nut
 > in this group. It challenges the sanctity of
 > corporatism and libertarian ideals.

What a pile of shit statement.

You know, [H]ypocrite, you have a really sick, depressing and ignorant 
view of reality and the world everyone but you lives in.

Nicotine has made you crazy.



> With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson
> in misguided loyalty.

You hear that owl?  You've just learned an important lesson from 
Headmaster Homer.  Now sit down or he'll spank you with his generic 
paddle - he doesn't buy brand name paddles.




> Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
> their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
> reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.

They are unique, and are usually difficult if not impossible to replace 
or reproduce, ie i tried 4 off/store brands of vanilla wafers and my 
devotion to Nabisco's Nilla Wafers was completely reinforced.

I'm sure I could waste days learning how to make them and arriving at my 
favorite recipe, but it won't save me time or money, and they won't be 
any better than Nabisco's.

Now get outsidea and enjoy Springtime with Nilla Wafers, oh yeah!
http://www.nabiscoworld.com/nilla/springtime/



> Beware brand fixation.

You're such a fuckin' hypocrite.  You smoke the same brand of ciggies, 
day after day for years.  And drink the same brand of rancid alcohol, 
and brush your 3 teeth with the same brush and paste for years, etc.



> Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
> driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
> so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
> the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety.

More ignorance.  They have different tastes, textures and ingredients.
http://www.slate.com/id/2117243/




> And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
> price, or more.  Idiots.

If you weren't such a shrieking liar and hypocrite, you would take pics 
or videos of your cabinets and refrigerator and clothing and computers 
(right now without removing things) and it would prove that most of your 
bullshit tales about brand names and "price has no relationship to 
quality" and so on are just babbling lies.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21134

DFS stated in post ipsfoc$krk$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:16 PM:

> On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:
> 
>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.
> 
> Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At
> least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your
> support.

Homer is concerned about software freedom... as if software has rights.  It
is... odd.

... 



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#21138

On 5/4/2011 5:23 PM, Snit wrote:
> DFS stated in post ipsfoc$krk$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:16 PM:
>
>> On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:
>>
>>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.
>>
>> Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At
>> least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your
>> support.
>
> Homer is concerned about software freedom... as if software has rights.  It
> is... odd.


The wackjobs think non-Free software restricts human freedom, and get 
this, "keeps people divided and helpless".

heh!

What it really comes down to is their frustration at being inferior 
developers, or their frustration at being unable to afford the better 
software.

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#21139

DFS stated in post ipsgsi$n7k$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:36 PM:

> On 5/4/2011 5:23 PM, Snit wrote:
>> DFS stated in post ipsfoc$krk$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:16 PM:
>> 
>>> On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.
>>> 
>>> Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At
>>> least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your
>>> support.
>> 
>> Homer is concerned about software freedom... as if software has rights.  It
>> is... odd.
> 
> 
> The wackjobs think non-Free software restricts human freedom, and get
> this, "keeps people divided and helpless".
> 
> heh!
> 
> What it really comes down to is their frustration at being inferior
> developers, or their frustration at being unable to afford the better
> software.
> 
I can understand people preferring the open source solutions... open source
(home made) yogurt and bread and cheeses are great - and I have made them
all.  I might even advocate that others do so - they are healthier and often
better tasting than the commercial ones.

But I cannot see fighting for the rights of cheese.  I cannot see insisting
that the corporations are trying to prevent me from making my own yogurt
because theirs is so darn good the supplies to make my own might be harder
to find.

That is, in essence, what many in COLA do in terms of desktop Linux.  It is
irrational.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

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#21178

On Wed, 04 May 2011 17:36:08 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/4/2011 5:23 PM, Snit wrote:
>> DFS stated in post ipsfoc$krk$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:16 PM:
>>
>>> On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.
>>>
>>> Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At
>>> least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your
>>> support.
>>
>> Homer is concerned about software freedom... as if software has rights.  It
>> is... odd.
> 
> 
> The wackjobs think non-Free software restricts human freedom, and get 
> this, "keeps people divided and helpless".
> 
> heh!


That's where they go off the rails IMHO.
I'm all for software freedom, I think some IP is bull crap but at the
same time people deserve to be compensated for their work, if they wish.
They should also be able to protect their work from theft or
unauthorized use.

 
> What it really comes down to is their frustration at being inferior 
> developers, or their frustration at being unable to afford the better 
> software.

I think that is a big part of it.
Just look at how some of the musicians in COLA go off the deep end when
I mention Protools or Nuendo etc.
They go out of their way to attempt to discredit 2 industry standard DAW
programs.
It's laughable.
To me that has sour grapes all over it.


-- 
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Watching Linux Fail:
http://limuxwatch.blogspot.com/
 
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta 
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html

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#21372

On 2011-05-05, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2011 17:36:08 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/4/2011 5:23 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> DFS stated in post ipsfoc$krk$1@speranza.aioe.org on 5/4/11 2:16 PM:
>>>
>>>> On 5/4/2011 2:50 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly.
>>>>
>>>> Not nearly as silly as the idea of supporting "software freedom".  At
>>>> least a corporation can provide your livelihood in exchange for your
>>>> support.
>>>
>>> Homer is concerned about software freedom... as if software has rights.  It
>>> is... odd.
>> 
>> 
>> The wackjobs think non-Free software restricts human freedom, and get 
>> this, "keeps people divided and helpless".
>> 
>> heh!
>
>
> That's where they go off the rails IMHO.

Not at all.

Software is what allows you to process information. Freedom of information
is very central to human freedom in general. You can't have one without the
other. Being able to say what I want, or read someone else's published 
materials, or being able to publish my own materials are all very key aspects
of basic civil liberties in a society.

[deletia]

-- 
NO! There are no CODICILES of Fight Club!                           |||
                                                                   / | \
That way leads to lawyers and business megacorps and credit cards!

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