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Re: Breyers Yogurt

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Homer stated in post moj898-oki.ln1@sky.matrix on 5/4/11 11:50 AM:

> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>> Homer <usenet@slated.org> wrote:
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that owl spake thusly:
>>>> Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Choice... And people chose NOT to support Breyers
>>> 
>>> LOL! "Support Breyers"? Normal people don't care about companies,
>>> they care about the finished products. The /company/ is just a name,
>>> except to fanatics like Larry who drool over corporate goons, for
>>> some reason.
>> 
>> It was not the Breyers company I supported, true, but it *was* the
>> Breyers brand.  (The brand was owned most recently by some investment
>> group).  I would actively seek out that brand because it was
>> associated with the high quality yogurt I preferred.
> 
> Er, IOW the finished product.
> 
> The idea of "supporting a company" is just silly. It's a business, not a
> football team. 

A football team is a business, too... yet you just implied you understand
supporting such businesses.  A business which has no tangible product.
Frankly I do not get that, either.  I do get taking pleasure in a company
doing well if that company produces a product I enjoy and value: esp. a tech
product where the advancement of the product depends, to a large degree, on
how well the company does.  With Apple doing so well I can be confident OS X
and other Apple products will be around for some time and will continue to
improve.  Excellent.

> But if one is the sort of person who worships materialism, then businesses
> become temples, corporate bigwigs become gods, and the entire premise of
> commerce becomes like a religious cult. That's what (I would guess) motivates
> pretty much every anti-Linux nut in this group. It challenges the sanctity of
> corporatism and libertarian ideals.

What?  I enjoy a product and want it to remain on the market and continue to
improve.

> And even WRT the end products, the fact that I sometimes buy a certain
> product doesn't make me think in terms of "supporting" that product. I'm
> just as likely to buy a competing product next time, or something
> completely unrelated, or nothing at all - and just make it myself.

Sure: if something were to offer me a better experience than what Apple
offers me with Macs, I would "jump ship" tomorrow.  No problem with that.

> The fact that something's "good" doesn't mean that nothing else is.

Yet look at how you lash out against non-OSS products.

> I'd have to try them first to find out, and with many things (especially food)
> there are more choices than one man could ever possibly try in a single
> lifetime. I'm damned sure those companies are not loyal to me, so why the hell
> should I be loyal to them? Why should I limit my experiences for their
> benefit?

Who said you should?  Sounds like you are confused.

> With the loss of this product, you've just learned an important lesson in
> misguided loyalty.

How dare he enjoy that brand of yogurt!  What a miserable thing for him to
do!

What?

>> That looks tedious, but I may end up trying it out.  Not likely to be
>> able to replicate the perfect flavor, consistency, etc. of the Breyers
>> though.
> 
> You may surprise yourself, and anyway it's not like you have a choice
> now, is it, given that you believe this brand was irreplaceable?
> 
> Companies spend an awful lot of money trying to convince people that
> their products are unique, irreplaceable, and not reproducible. The
> reality is somewhat different. If they can make it, then so can you.

It is not always so easy.  But if you think it is, do you make your own CPU?

> In the case of yoghurt in particular, it's utterly trivial to do so. It
> literally takes seconds (of actual work). You may even end up with
> something /better/, given enough experimentation. Of course you'll never
> know unless you try.

Sure: but most people are not interested in doing so.  Full disclosure, my
family *has* made our own yogurt on many occasions.  I have nothing against
people doing so - just as I have nothing against OSS.

> Beware brand fixation. It's a creeping disease spread by advertisers,
> and claims millions of victims every year. Of course, people usually
> don't realise they're infected until it's too late, and the "brand"
> they've been brainwashed into becoming addicted to goes belly-up. Some
> of those people go on to become addicted to other "brands" instead. Some
> are cured, and discover the truth about no-name products, autonomy, and
> other things advertisers don't want you to know about.

You speak of him liking one type of yogurt as a disease.  That is... odd.
To say the least.

> Years ago I had a brand fixation on a yoghurt product called "Müller's
> Thick 'n Creamy". It was a plain yoghurt with a sweeter flavour and
> creamier texture, and I absolutely loved it. Then, predictably, one day
> some marketing dilbert decided it was 0.0000000001% less profitable than
> some other bullshit, and Müller unceremoniously axed it without warning,
> so some fat executive could have an extra 0.00000001 cent in his pocket
> every year. I was devastated.

How dare they decide to sell something that would make them more money and
likely please more people.  How eeeeeeevil of them, eh?

I mean, really, did you write to Crayola and whine about them getting rid of
Lemon Yellow?  

> Then one day I bought a tub of no-name plain yoghurt, double cream, and
> various other things as part of my weekly shopping. I had intended using
> the yoghurt to make biryani, and the cream with some strawberries, but I
> ended up forgetting about them, and the other ingredients got used in
> other dishes. So I was left with some yoghurt and cream that were both
> in danger of going off soon. Just for the hell of it, I mixed them
> together. Quelle surprise ... "Müller's Thick 'n Creamy". I kid ye not.
> So much for /that/ "unique" product.

Oh no!  You found something else you liked.  How dare you!

Not sure what reaction you were looking for - did that do it for you?

> There's so many examples like that in your typical supermarket, I don't
> know where to begin. Nearly every pack of real butter is identical, for
> example, except for salted vs. unsalted. Seriously, buy two completely
> different brands of salted butter, and taste them for yourself. Heck,
> they're probably both made in the same dairy.
> 
> Talking of salt, that's all identical too, except for the price. There's
> driveway salt, which sometimes contains a lot of other nasty chemicals,
> so you probably don't want to eat that, but the edible varieties are all
> the same, including the supposed "cooking" variety. Think about it, how
> many different types of sodium chloride do you think there are, anyway?
> It's a crystalline compound with a simple chemical formula for God's
> sake, it's not like two refined samples of it could be radically
> different. And yet some people buy the "branded" variety at double the
> price, or more.  Idiots.
> 
> That's "brand" fixation for you. Most of the so-called "differentiation"
> in most products is pure marketing, indeed a lot of the same type of
> products are, in reality, manufactured by just one or two companies,
> usually in some foreign country using cheap labour, then "branded", with
> each "brand" being sold at sometimes radically different prices. Just
> look at Apple, as one of the most stereotypical examples.

Look at them: they sell a product which serves me better than any other
product at a similar price.  What is wrong with making that choice?  Why go
with an inferior product (one that serves *me* less well... and many
others)?

> I do a hell of a lot of cooking. A /hell/ of a lot. In particular I do a
> lot of Indian dishes, and I always cook from scratch ... no "sauce jars"
> in this house. The thing about Indian food is it requires a lot of
> yoghurt, as that's the base for many sauces. Where I live is the back of
> beyond though, so asking for "exotic" items like yoghurt usually invites
> blank stares and questions like "are you on a diet?" Think John
> Boorman's "Deliverance" but with fewer shops. So if I want yoghurt, I
> either have to travel miles into civilisation or make it myself.
> 
> Once I discovered how easy it is I never bought another tub of yoghurt
> ever again. I soon discovered how easy it is to make butter from yoghurt
> too, and the ghee (clarified butter - essential in a lot of Indian
> dishes) made from that butter is far superior to that made from
> supermarket butter as well.

Yes, it is.  I have no problem with that.

> That's the thing about autonomy. Once you make the effort to learn how
> things work, you discover the answers to how other things work too, in a
> sort of cascading effect, because it's all connected. Then you don't
> need to worry about what some corporate dilbert has decided is best for
> you, you can decide that for yourself.

Do you roll your own cigarettes?

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

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Thread

Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 11:13 +0000
  Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 13:16 +0200
    Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 12:03 +0000
      Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 07:38 -0500
        Re: Breyers Yogurt "carlos" <carlos@nospam.com> - 2011-05-04 10:54 -0400
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 17:08 +0200
      Re: Breyers Yogurt "amicus_curious" <acdc@sti.net> - 2011-05-04 08:52 -0400
        Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 16:08 +0000
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 18:12 +0200
            Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 16:22 +0000
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 15:26 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:30 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 17:12 -0400
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-04 12:21 -0400
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 20:00 +0100
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:13 -0700
          Re: Breyers Yogurt "amicus_curious" <acdc@sti.net> - 2011-05-04 18:58 -0400
      Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:59 -0700
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 16:17 +0200
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 08:02 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 17:12 +0200
          Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:35 +0000
            Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 10:42 -0500
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:05 -0700
      Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 16:29 +0100
        Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:56 +0000
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:12 -0700
          Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-04 19:50 +0100
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 12:50 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2011-05-04 20:03 +0000
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 13:16 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 15:26 -0500
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> - 2011-05-04 23:09 +0000
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 16:21 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-04 17:16 -0400
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 14:23 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-04 17:36 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 14:45 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-04 22:06 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-05 13:11 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 12:13 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 21:34 +0200
                Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:23 -0500
              Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-04 17:20 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-05 17:33 +0100
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 09:46 -0700
            Re: Breyers Yogurt Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> - 2011-05-04 23:06 +0000
              Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 16:19 -0700
              Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-05 07:40 -0500
              Re: Breyers Yogurt cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-05 12:01 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 16:34 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 13:58 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt An Old Friend <an.old@friend.com.invalid> - 2011-05-06 00:09 +0100
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 16:31 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-06 01:03 +0100
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 21:15 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:20 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 18:38 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-05 16:33 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Homer <usenet@slated.org> - 2011-05-06 00:51 +0100
                Re: Breyers Yogurt chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-06 07:31 -0500
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> - 2011-05-06 08:35 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt "Catch the Wave" <zm@nospam.com> - 2011-05-06 09:27 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchmail.com> - 2011-05-07 07:51 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-07 14:00 -0400
                Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-07 05:54 -0700
                Re: Breyers Yogurt JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-05-06 10:16 -0500
            Re: Breyers Yogurt cc <scatnubbs@hotmail.com> - 2011-05-05 11:56 -0700
        Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:10 -0700
    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:54 -0700
      Re: Breyers Yogurt Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 15:58 +0200
  Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 06:53 -0700
  Re: Breyers Yogurt TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 16:53 +0000
    Re: Breyers Yogurt Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-05-04 10:21 -0700
  Re: Breyers Yogurt flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-05-04 13:11 -0400
  Re: Breyers Yogurt DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2011-05-05 15:59 -0400

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