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Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates

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  Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-16 08:55 -0400
    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-17 03:06 +0000
      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-17 08:48 -0400
        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-17 14:04 +0000
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-17 10:14 -0400
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-18 05:36 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:23 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-18 09:35 +0000
                  Wayland (was: Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-18 09:57 +0000
                    Re: Wayland % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:21 -0700
                      Re: Wayland Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-18 12:10 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-18 10:51 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-18 12:08 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-19 10:24 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:20 -0700
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-18 10:11 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:57 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-04-19 10:01 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-18 07:24 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:51 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:46 -0400
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 05:01 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 08:00 -0400
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 22:10 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:48 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:48 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:45 -0400
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 05:00 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 07:59 -0400
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 20:12 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:00 -0400
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 22:08 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 00:58 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-22 01:05 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:16 -0400
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:11 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 07:51 +0000
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:58 -0400
                                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 18:23 +0000
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 15:03 -0400
                                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:45 +0000
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:15 +0000
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:09 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:53 -0400
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-22 18:40 +0000
                                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:20 +0000
                                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 09:09 -0400
                                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-24 12:45 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-21 21:06 -0400
                            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-22 06:13 +0000
                              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-22 08:54 -0400
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-21 10:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-21 12:35 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 20:54 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:19 -0700
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:21 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 20:46 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-19 07:43 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 04:47 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 02:33 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:48 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 04:07 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:02 -0700
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 05:22 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-23 07:21 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:03 -0700
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-23 07:01 -0700
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-24 08:42 -0400
        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 09:36 +0100
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-18 18:07 +0000
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-19 21:56 +1000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-19 09:15 -0400
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-21 01:46 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 02:22 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 02:29 +0000
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 03:58 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-04-23 04:11 +0000
                          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 07:36 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-04-23 18:16 -0500
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-24 00:14 +0000
                Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-21 19:40 +1000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Farley Flud <fsquared@fsquared.linux> - 2025-04-21 10:41 +0000
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-04-21 16:09 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 12:22 -0700
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:38 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-04-22 14:47 -0500
                      Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-23 04:02 +0000
                        Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-23 08:38 -0400
                  Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:32 +0000
                    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-22 19:58 +1000
          Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-21 05:43 +0000
            Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-21 19:25 +0000
              Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 12:33 -0700
    Re: Microsoft warns of blue screen crashes caused by April updates Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-17 05:02 -0400

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#689377

On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>>> most.
>>>>>
>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>>> appealing.
>>> 
>>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>>> little Mac experience I have.
>>
>> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what 
>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently 
>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only 
>> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, 
>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to 
>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under 
>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring 
>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. 
>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional 
>> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it 
>> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works 
>> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
>
> I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll 
> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are 
> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them 
> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better 
> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
>

I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.

I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
and works.

Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
Not worth it for me.


-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689385

On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:33:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the
> Mac.
> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.

When you live in a walled garden it's easy to ensure Apple devices connect 
to Apple peripherals and rule Apple software. In the Windows and Linux 
world, who knows what mishmash of parts somebody is going to try to run 
the software on?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689389

On 2025-04-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:33:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
>
>> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the
>> Mac.
>> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
>> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>
> When you live in a walled garden it's easy to ensure Apple devices connect 
> to Apple peripherals and rule Apple software. In the Windows and Linux 
> world, who knows what mishmash of parts somebody is going to try to run 
> the software on?

All true.
You either accept what Apple wants or you are screwed.
I get it.
Many people really don't care.
They just want their gadgets to work.



-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689409

pothead wrote:
> On 2025-04-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:33:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the
>>> Mac.
>>> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
>>> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>>
>> When you live in a walled garden it's easy to ensure Apple devices connect
>> to Apple peripherals and rule Apple software. In the Windows and Linux
>> world, who knows what mishmash of parts somebody is going to try to run
>> the software on?
> 
> All true.
> You either accept what Apple wants or you are screwed.
> I get it.
> Many people really don't care.
> They just want their gadgets to work.
> 
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689395

On 2025-04-23, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
> On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>>>> appealing.
>>>> 
>>>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>>>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>>>> little Mac experience I have.
>>>
>>> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what 
>>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently 
>>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only 
>>> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, 
>>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to 
>>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under 
>>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring 
>>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. 
>>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional 
>>> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it 
>>> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works 
>>> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
>>
>> I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll 
>> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are 
>> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them 
>> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better 
>> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
>>
>
> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>
> I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
> I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
> and works.
>
> Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
> Not worth it for me.

Device integration is something I avoid like the plague, so Apple has allure 
for me at all.

-- 
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy 
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.”  —J.R.R. Tolkien

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689399

On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 05:22:39 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote in <slrn100gu8s.3s3p.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home>:

> On 2025-04-23, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>>>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>>>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>>>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>>>>> appealing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>>>>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>>>>> little Mac experience I have.
>>>>
>>>> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what 
>>>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently 
>>>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only 
>>>> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, 
>>>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to 
>>>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under 
>>>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring 
>>>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. 
>>>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional 
>>>> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it 
>>>> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works 
>>>> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
>>>
>>> I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll 
>>> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are 
>>> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them 
>>> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better 
>>> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
>> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
>> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>>
>> I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
>> I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
>> and works.
>>
>> Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
>> Not worth it for me.
> 
> Device integration is something I avoid like the plague, so Apple has allure 
> for me at all.

(Chromebooks and Android.)

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Every man's work is a portrait of himself."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689410

vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 05:22:39 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
> wrote in <slrn100gu8s.3s3p.ronb02NOSPAM@3020m.home>:
> 
>> On 2025-04-23, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>>>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>>>>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>>>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>>>>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>>>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>>>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>>>>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>>>>>> appealing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>>>>>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>>>>>> little Mac experience I have.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what
>>>>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently
>>>>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only
>>>>> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides,
>>>>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to
>>>>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under
>>>>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring
>>>>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support.
>>>>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional
>>>>> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it
>>>>> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works
>>>>> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll
>>>> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are
>>>> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them
>>>> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better
>>>> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
>>> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
>>> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>>>
>>> I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
>>> I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
>>> and works.
>>>
>>> Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
>>> Not worth it for me.
>>
>> Device integration is something I avoid like the plague, so Apple has allure
>> for me at all.
> 
> (Chromebooks and Android.)
> 
is that what you named your kids

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689408

pothead wrote:
> On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
>>>>>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>>>>>>> On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>>>>>>>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words, never.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
>>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
>>>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
>>>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
>>>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
>>>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
>>>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
>>>>>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
>>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
>>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
>>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
>>>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can confirm, at least in some cases.  My wife needed a new laptop, but
>>>>>>> she wanted Apple.  They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
>>>>>>> a web-browser.  So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
>>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time.  (One
>>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
>>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded).  I put Linux, and there was a tiny
>>>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
>>>>>>> years successfully.  She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
>>>>>>> running Fedora.  Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
>>>>>>> familiarity with it.  But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
>>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
>>>>>>> desktop config.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
>>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
>>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
>>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
>>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
>>>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
>>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
>>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
>>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
>>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
>>>>>>> expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
>>>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
>>>>>>> similar.  It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
>>>>>>> most.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
>>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
>>>>> surveillance and the like.  He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
>>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
>>>>> laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
>>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop.  No issues so far.
>>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like.  Gnome on the other hand, I think that
>>>>> is more of a leap.  I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
>>>>> appealing.
>>>>
>>>> I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
>>>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
>>>> little Mac experience I have.
>>>
>>> I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what
>>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently
>>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only
>>> manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides,
>>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to
>>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under
>>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring
>>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support.
>>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional
>>> software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it
>>> works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works
>>> better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
>>
>> I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll
>> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are
>> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them
>> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better
>> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
>>
> 
> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
> 
> I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
> I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
> and works.
> 
> Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
> Not worth it for me.
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689421

% wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> pothead wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac.
>> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
>> devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
>> 
>> I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
>> I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices
>> and works.
>> 
>> Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
>> Not worth it for me.

On a side note, the Samsung Galaxy tablets and phone, once you create a Samsung
account, are integrated, as far as I can tell, in the same way as Apple
products.

By the way, I dumped the iPhone to go back to Android. The iPhone was good,
but I dislike the Apple silo. And I still get offers from Apple.

-- 
We have not inherited the earth from our parents, we've borrowed it from
our children.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689147

On 17/04/2025 13:48, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> At what point do we finally give up?
>>
>> When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
>>
>> In other words, never.
> 
> I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any 
> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are 
> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of 
> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the 
> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous 
> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use 
> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as 
> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if 
> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much 
> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got 
> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced 
> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
> 

+1

Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know 
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.


-- 
Regards
wasbit

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689185

On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:

> Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
> how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.

That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart 
I've wanted to know how stuff works. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689238

On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:
> 
>> Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
>> how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
> 
> That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
> I've wanted to know how stuff works.
> 
I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam 
Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it 
functioning.

About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics 
Apprenticeship!!
-- 
Daniel70

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689244

Daniel70 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:
>> 
>>> Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
>>> how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
>> 
>> That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
>> I've wanted to know how stuff works.
>> 
> I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam 
> Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it 
> functioning.
>
> About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics 
> Apprenticeship!!

When I was a teen I got some Social Security money from my father's SS.
Not sure why. It was about $230.

In spite of my parents' dismay, I blew it all on a PAIA synthesizer kit
and the tools needed to assemble it. Clipping leads, soldering, learning
resistor color coding, testing without an oscilloscope... I had years of
fun with that thing.

-- 
Heisenberg might have been here.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689290

On 2025-04-19, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> Daniel70 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
>>>> how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
>>> 
>>> That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
>>> I've wanted to know how stuff works.
>>> 
>> I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam 
>> Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it 
>> functioning.
>>
>> About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics 
>> Apprenticeship!!
>
> When I was a teen I got some Social Security money from my father's SS.
> Not sure why. It was about $230.
>
> In spite of my parents' dismay, I blew it all on a PAIA synthesizer kit
> and the tools needed to assemble it. Clipping leads, soldering, learning
> resistor color coding, testing without an oscilloscope... I had years of
> fun with that thing.
>
Now that is cool.
Possibly I have misjudged you Chris.
I will back off.

FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I spent
countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets from Radio Shack.
 It wasn't until I bought a used
Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some useful
stuff.



-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

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#689292

On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 01:46:14 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

> FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
> spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
> from Radio Shack.
>  It wasn't until I bought a used
> Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some
> useful stuff.

Another walk down memory lane...  I had a EICO VOM that I built from a 
kit. I got a lot of use from it before a coworker managed to destroy it. 
The company replaced it with a Simpson 260 so it was a trade-up probably 
although I think EICO copied the Simpson. I did not lend that one out and 
also had the roll top case to protect it from clumsy wrench jockeys.

https://www.simpson260.com/accessories/case/simpson_00248.htm

Back in the day you could get on an airplane with something like that.

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#689375

On 2025-04-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 01:46:14 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
>
>> FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
>> spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
>> from Radio Shack.
>>  It wasn't until I bought a used
>> Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some
>> useful stuff.
>
> Another walk down memory lane...  I had a EICO VOM that https://www.newark.com/simpson/12211/multimeter-analog-7-functions/dp/01B6875?CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-PMAX-Shopping-New&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|01B6875|pgrid||ptaid||&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_JzABhC2ARIsAPe3ynqF21qzFHdgwHKhNSUv0M-05_8AuGw_7dZsssIBsACo5ZvkcUQySfQaAjt2EALw_wcBI built from a 
> kit. I got a lot of use from it before a coworker managed to destroy it. 
> The company replaced it with a Simpson 260 so it was a trade-up probably 
> although I think EICO copied the Simpson. I did not lend that one out and 
> also had the roll top case to protect it from clumsy wrench jockeys.
>
> https://www.simpson260.com/accessories/case/simpson_00248.htm
>
> Back in the day you could get on an airplane with something like that.

You don't even want to know what a new Simpson meter cost these days.
I'm sure it can be had for less but here is one example..
<https://www.newark.com/simpson/12211/multimeter-analog-7-functions/dp/01B6875?CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-PMAX-Shopping-New&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|01B6875|pgrid||ptaid||&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_JzABhC2ARIsAPe3ynqF21qzFHdgwHKhNSUv0M-05_8AuGw_7dZsssIBsACo5ZvkcUQySfQaAjt2EALw_wcB>



-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

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#689387

On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:29:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

> You don't even want to know what a new Simpson meter cost these days.

Amazon is showing a 260-EP for $750. The handy dandy inflation calculator 
says that is $94.98  1971 dollars, which iirc is about right. They never 
were cheap. Who says Flukes are expensive? 

My old RatShack is holding up so far and does what I need. 

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#689390

On 2025-04-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:29:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
>
>> You don't even want to know what a new Simpson meter cost these days.
>
> Amazon is showing a 260-EP for $750. The handy dandy inflation calculator 
> says that is $94.98  1971 dollars, which iirc is about right. They never 
> were cheap. Who says Flukes are expensive? 
>
> My old RatShack is holding up so far and does what I need. 

Insane.
I have several Fluke meters.
The only analog meter I have is a TenMa millivolt meter I use
to calibrate analog tape decks,
-- 
pothead
Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
Treat it accordingly
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#689400

On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 04:11:40 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

> The only analog meter I have is a TenMa millivolt meter I use to
> calibrate analog tape decks,

I'd have to go digging but I think the only things I have with an analog 
meter movement are a dwell/tach and a Seiko guitar tuner, not counting the 
speedometers and tachs in the vehicles. 

I haven' used either in years. I haven't needed to set points in a while 
and I use a clip on Snark tuner for the guitars and banjo.

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#689416

rbowman wrote:

> pothead wrote:
>>
>> FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
>> spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
>> from Radio Shack.
>>  It wasn't until I bought a used
>> Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some
>> useful stuff.
>
>Another walk down memory lane...  I had a EICO VOM that I built from a 
>kit. I got a lot of use from it before a coworker managed to destroy it. 
>The company replaced it with a Simpson 260 so it was a trade-up probably 
>although I think EICO copied the Simpson. I did not lend that one out and 
>also had the roll top case to protect it from clumsy wrench jockeys.
>
>https://www.simpson260.com/accessories/case/simpson_00248.htm
>
>Back in the day you could get on an airplane with something like that.

I had a Beckman Tech330 DMM which I loved, but I dropped it on a
concrete floor and cracked the shit out of it.  0.1% basic DC
accuracy, true RMS AC, and manually-ranging like God intended.

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bekman_ins_digital_multimeter_tech_330_true_rms.html

Now I mostly use a Fluke 77 that I liberated from work (we downsized
and had extras).

For a 'scope, I have an ancient Tek 7834 400 MHz mainframe, with two
dual-channel vertical amplifier plug-ins to go along with the main and
delayed time-base plug-ins.  It's from the 80's but still works good.
I confess that it's mostly decorative, these days.  I've thought about
selling it but it's so damn cool looking.  All the knobs and buttons
and switches that you could desire!  8)

Here's an Ebay listing of a 7834 that looks exactly like mine (except
mine has no broken switches).   https://www.ebay.com/itm/266442020259

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