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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #476889 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Simon bar Sinister <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-11-12 04:49 -0800 |
| Last post | 2018-11-12 12:53 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 164 — 8 participants |
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Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Simon bar Sinister <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 04:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 05:11 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 07:42 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 08:01 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-12 16:19 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 08:32 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 01:04 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:17 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:24 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:55 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 21:51 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 02:02 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:27 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 01:34 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:21 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 18:58 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 21:35 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 13:04 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-13 07:35 -0600
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 14:00 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 07:17 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 15:49 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 08:51 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 17:26 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:11 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:38 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 20:05 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:22 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 14:47 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 23:46 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 16:19 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:32 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:54 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 03:56 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 10:52 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-13 20:01 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 12:44 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:00 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 13:31 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 00:02 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 18:43 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 04:12 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 08:01 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 18:28 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 11:22 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 19:47 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:07 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 20:29 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:59 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-14 21:44 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 13:53 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 14:18 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 15:07 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 02:03 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:01 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 04:17 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:42 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 04:58 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 07:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 08:21 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 16:31 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:00 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 17:30 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:50 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 18:04 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:58 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 20:25 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 13:04 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 20:25 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 11:17 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 08:59 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 13:02 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 17:42 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 09:51 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 18:01 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:06 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 20:42 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:06 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 22:31 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:34 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 22:49 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:04 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:24 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:56 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:11 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:53 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:57 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:17 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:24 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 14:48 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 23:24 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 18:25 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:31 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-15 23:33 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 15:45 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:02 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:14 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:26 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:43 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:56 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:16 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 01:28 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 21:22 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 22:55 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:44 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 19:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 22:24 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 19:42 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 00:48 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 19:54 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:12 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 16:55 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 20:09 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 17:12 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 21:37 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 08:22 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-16 11:49 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 17:28 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:29 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 09:04 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 11:55 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 08:53 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:50 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 17:08 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 09:53 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 18:11 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 10:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-16 13:06 -0600
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:09 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:33 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:35 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:43 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-16 19:00 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 17:25 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 09:08 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 19:29 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 12:01 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 20:21 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 12:27 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 13:52 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 14:02 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2018-11-16 23:23 +0000
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 08:56 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-17 10:52 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-11-16 13:23 -0700
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-16 11:55 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 13:09 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-15 10:59 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-15 17:07 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-11-14 16:43 -0700
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 12:50 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 11:51 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 20:13 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 21:14 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star DFS <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-14 09:51 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 07:23 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-14 08:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-14 11:19 -0600
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 06:44 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-13 05:41 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 17:23 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-11-12 12:40 -0500
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2018-11-12 09:49 -0800
Re: Sofia is an award winning Ukrainian Rock Star SilverSlimer <silver@slim.er> - 2018-11-12 12:53 -0500
Page 2 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next page →
| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 07:17 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <6e7c7653-4734-457c-b85b-fa5ccf3e6e90@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477101 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > owl wrote: > > > >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not > >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. > >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a solo vocalist). > > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. > > > > It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. > Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. > So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. > Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good at singing as EJ is at guitar. That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will".
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 15:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <p6kz0b803ga.gh34@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477107 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >> > owl wrote: >> > >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. > > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a > solo vocalist). > >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. >> > >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. > > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. > >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. > > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good > at singing as EJ is at guitar. > > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". > Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 08:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <876803f1-4014-46f4-bfbc-2551770d3711@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477114 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > >> > owl wrote: > >> > > >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not > >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. > >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. > > > > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' > > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double > > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony > > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, > > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a > > solo vocalist). > > > >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. > >> > > >> > >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. > > > > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, > > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are > > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys > > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. > > > >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. > >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. > >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. > > > > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted > > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is > > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year > > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get > > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good > > at singing as EJ is at guitar. > > > > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended > > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied > > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a > > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid > > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to > > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear > > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what > > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of > > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben > > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot > > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's > > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, > > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". > > > > Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that > is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without > vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else, sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation, is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space. Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't recognize they have produced some good material but, for the most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'.
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 17:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <18s9z0b803.ago3lp@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477124 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >> >> > owl wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not >> >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. >> >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. >> > >> > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' >> > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double >> > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony >> > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, >> > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a >> > solo vocalist). >> > >> >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. >> >> > >> >> >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. >> > >> > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, >> > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are >> > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys >> > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. >> > >> >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. >> >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. >> >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. >> > >> > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted >> > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is >> > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year >> > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get >> > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good >> > at singing as EJ is at guitar. >> > >> > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended >> > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied >> > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a >> > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid >> > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to >> > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear >> > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what >> > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of >> > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben >> > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot >> > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's >> > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, >> > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". >> > >> >> Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that >> is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without >> vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s > > Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else, > sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally > go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like > any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have > certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation, > is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm > far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space. > Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most > of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a > rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. > > In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as > many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very > much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions > I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't > recognize they have produced some good material but, for the > most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'. > Almost without exception, songs that are notable specifically *for* their great guitar work are songs that also had vocals. People like Vai and Satriani might be technical masters, but their original music is horrible, and when they try to play other genres -- usually in an attempt to show how "unsophisticed" or technically easy those genres are -- they fail utterly. They seem to have an assburger-like dissociation from the emotional aspect of music. That's also true of most jazzy stuff in general though. I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, for that matter, I'm happy to say. Case in point: Jeff Beck. :)
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 10:11 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <c5ceda5d-a772-4e4e-a47d-4b5d76c5d618@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477135 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > >> >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > >> >> > owl wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not > >> >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. > >> >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. > >> > > >> > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' > >> > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double > >> > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony > >> > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, > >> > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a > >> > solo vocalist). > >> > > >> >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. > >> > > >> > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, > >> > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are > >> > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys > >> > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. > >> > > >> >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. > >> >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. > >> >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. > >> > > >> > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted > >> > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is > >> > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year > >> > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get > >> > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good > >> > at singing as EJ is at guitar. > >> > > >> > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended > >> > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied > >> > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a > >> > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid > >> > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to > >> > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear > >> > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what > >> > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of > >> > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben > >> > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot > >> > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's > >> > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, > >> > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". > >> > > >> > >> Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that > >> is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without > >> vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : > >> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s > > > > Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else, > > sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally > > go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like > > any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have > > certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation, > > is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm > > far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space. > > Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most > > of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a > > rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. > > > > In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as > > many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very > > much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions > > I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't > > recognize they have produced some good material but, for the > > most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'. > > > > Almost without exception, songs that are notable specifically *for* > their great guitar work are songs that also had vocals. Depends on who is doing the listening, "notable" does not necessarily mean the most famous or popular with record sales to back it up. There are plenty of players who've played notable solos on instrumental tunes that the average music listener is totally unaware of simply because it's not a vocal tune. That the average music listener prefers vocal tunes is nothing new... the voice is the most 'relatable' of instruments and the best part is you don't need any musical training to sing in the shower. > People like > Vai and Satriani might be technical masters, but their original music > is horrible Some of it, no doubt. >, and when they try to play other genres -- usually in an > attempt to show how "unsophisticed" or technically easy those genres are > -- they fail utterly. They seem to have an assburger-like dissociation > from the emotional aspect of music. That's also true of most jazzy > stuff in general though. I don't disagree about certain aspects with Vai and Satriani (not the emotion part, though). But to say this of jazz music in general? Not buying... and not only because you're painting with too broad a brush but because you don't find it listenable... *you* don't, and maybe the gen pop doesn't, either, but that's only because they lack interest in instruments that aren't a voice. Guys like Vai and Satriani only fail utterly (and only relatively) in the commercial version of success, in the musical version they're both highly regarded (not really my cup of tea, however). > I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > Case in point: Jeff Beck. :) Nice try... Jeff Beck *also* fulfills the role of 'being popular' and became so under his own name fairly early in his career. Beck was going to make it regardless of who he played with, same with the players I mentioned above... same with guys like Scott Henderson, Mike Stern, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, etc. There are some people who just stick out due to their uniqueness, they're not being listened to by the average consumer of music because what they do doesn't focus on vocals... but they're playing circles around everybody else and doing so in ways that can't be easily emulated.
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 10:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <bf2fb510-ead6-4d32-aaa9-5534ca7d061b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477144 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 11:12:00 AM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > >> >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > >> >> > owl wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not > > >> >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. > > >> >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. > > >> > > > >> > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' > > >> > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double > > >> > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony > > >> > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, > > >> > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a > > >> > solo vocalist). > > >> > > > >> >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. > > >> > > > >> > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, > > >> > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are > > >> > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys > > >> > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. > > >> > > > >> >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. > > >> >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. > > >> >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. > > >> > > > >> > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted > > >> > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is > > >> > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year > > >> > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get > > >> > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good > > >> > at singing as EJ is at guitar. > > >> > > > >> > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended > > >> > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied > > >> > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a > > >> > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid > > >> > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to > > >> > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear > > >> > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what > > >> > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of > > >> > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben > > >> > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot > > >> > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's > > >> > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, > > >> > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". > > >> > > > >> > > >> Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that > > >> is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without > > >> vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : > > >> > > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s > > > > > > Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else, > > > sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally > > > go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like > > > any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have > > > certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation, > > > is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm > > > far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space. > > > Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most > > > of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a > > > rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. > > > > > > In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as > > > many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very > > > much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions > > > I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't > > > recognize they have produced some good material but, for the > > > most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'. > > > > > > > Almost without exception, songs that are notable specifically *for* > > their great guitar work are songs that also had vocals. > > Depends on who is doing the listening, "notable" does not necessarily > mean the most famous or popular with record sales to back it up. There > are plenty of players who've played notable solos on instrumental tunes > that the average music listener is totally unaware of simply because it's > not a vocal tune. That the average music listener prefers vocal tunes is > nothing new... the voice is the most 'relatable' of instruments and the > best part is you don't need any musical training to sing in the shower. > > > People like > > Vai and Satriani might be technical masters, but their original music > > is horrible > > Some of it, no doubt. > > >, and when they try to play other genres -- usually in an > > attempt to show how "unsophisticed" or technically easy those genres are > > -- they fail utterly. They seem to have an assburger-like dissociation > > from the emotional aspect of music. That's also true of most jazzy > > stuff in general though. > > I don't disagree about certain aspects with Vai and Satriani (not > the emotion part, though). But to say this of jazz music in general? > Not buying... and not only because you're painting with too broad > a brush but because you don't find it listenable... *you* don't, and > maybe the gen pop doesn't, either, but that's only because they > lack interest in instruments that aren't a voice. Guys like Vai and > Satriani only fail utterly (and only relatively) in the commercial > version of success, in the musical version they're both highly > regarded (not really my cup of tea, however). > > > I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > > players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > > to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > > anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > > exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > > "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > > itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > > for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > > > Case in point: Jeff Beck. :) > > Nice try... Jeff Beck *also* fulfills the role of 'being popular' and > became so under his own name fairly early in his career. Beck was > going to make it regardless of who he played with, same with the > players I mentioned above... same with guys like Scott Henderson, > Mike Stern, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, etc. There are some people > who just stick out due to their uniqueness, they're not being listened > to by the average consumer of music because what they do doesn't > focus on vocals... but they're playing circles around everybody else > and doing so in ways that can't be easily emulated. Already moved on from that. You are too slow! I have a number of reasons for believing the flooder is Jonas Eklundh Communication, who is a self professed programmer but I don't know if it could be used to automate this. Jonas Eklundh Communication is the outcome of the truth that Trotskyites have been employed to be in charge of instructing children. It's not chance that he is a mindless Russian sympathizer. What's the Earth coming to when a Jonas Eklundh Communication shill fails to get any notice... -- Eight things to never feed your cat http://www.5z8.info/creditscore_g7f8du_launchexe http://www.5z8.info/yourdick_v1o3ww_manhunter https://youtu.be/UkAyrfOZaXc Jonas Eklundh Communication
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 20:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <sz9b0803ga.4@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477144 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:00:13 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> >> >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: >> >> >> > owl wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>Guitar wankery has its place, but it needs to one part of a band, not >> >> >> >>the focus, or I just can't listen to it. The guitar is not the violin. >> >> >> >>It just cannot carry an entire song, even in the best of hands. >> >> > >> >> > You and I have very different definitions of the terms 'carry a tune' >> >> > and 'guitar wanking' but I'd point out a violin can only play double >> >> > stops well, a guitar, even a bass guitar, can play melody, harmony >> >> > and even percussion and it doesn't take the best of hands to do it, >> >> > just diligent practice (something that won't be accomplished by a >> >> > solo vocalist). >> >> > >> >> >> > Damn near. For example, Voodoo Child, by Hendrix. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> It's the "damn near" part that separates the great from the unlistenable. >> >> > >> >> > Unlistenable... to *you*. If you were to go listen to Tuck Andress, >> >> > Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Pass, etc. you may hear things that are >> >> > "unlistenable" to you because vocals are missing... but these guys >> >> > are carrying the hell outta tunes in ways nobody before them has. >> >> > >> >> >> Voodoo Chile has vocals. So does Machine Gun. So does Stranglehold. >> >> >> So does Bridge of Sighs. So does Highway Star. So does Comfortably Numb. >> >> >> Guitar just doesn't cut it by itself. >> >> > >> >> > We all have our own tastes... for example, despite Perry being touted >> >> > as 'The Voice', I only own the first 3 Journey albums. I think Perry is >> >> > a great vocalist but for *me* he's generally not doing what the 13 year >> >> > old Aguilera does on 'Think'. To my ear most vocal based tunes get >> >> > boring pretty quickly unless they're sung by a vocalist who is as good >> >> > at singing as EJ is at guitar. >> >> > >> >> > That Cliffs of Dover version was live so you'd expect it to be extended >> >> > but the whole point of the tune is to utilize musical textures as varied >> >> > as the landscape on the cliffs. To me wanking is repetitively playing a >> >> > scale fast with no sync to the underlying harmony, not playing hybrid >> >> > pentatonics that actually follow the harmony (which is what EJ does to >> >> > paint falling off the cliffs). The kinds of performers that catch my ear >> >> > are the ones who are doing things that fall outside of the norm of what >> >> > is generally considered 'good', they also usually have a certain type of >> >> > uniqueness that is difficult, if not impossible, to emulate. Take Robben >> >> > Ford for example... Guthrie Govan, a noted 'guitar god' who plays a lot >> >> > of different styles, most of them well, remarked in a video on RF's >> >> > playing style: "Without wishing to burst any bubbles you will never, >> >> > ever sound exactly like Robben Ford, none of us will". >> >> > >> >> >> >> Here is one of the most famous guitar solos in history, in a song that >> >> is dominated by guitar throughout, but can you imagine this song without >> >> vocals? Who would want to listen to it? : >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaAE33rMTSk&t=4m52s >> > >> > Most casual listeners of music value vocals above all else, >> > sometimes to the exclusion of everything else... I generally >> > go the other direction <shrug>. That's not to say I don't like >> > any vocals, I just tire of them more quickly unless they have >> > certain qualities or the tune, including the instrumentation, >> > is interesting. I'm not a huge fan of 'power chord' music, I'm >> > far more into harmony and being able to hear a bit of space. >> > Power chords and the sound used to obtain it consume most >> > of the space so unless it's highly musically engaging from a >> > rhythmic standpoint, I generally pass. >> > >> > In my generation I guess I'm what you'd call an 'old soul' as >> > many of the bands my peers raved over didn't interest me very >> > much. AD/DC? Pink Floyd? Judas Priest? With a few exceptions >> > I could take 'em or leave 'em. This doesn't mean that I don't >> > recognize they have produced some good material but, for the >> > most part, it just wasn't a large part of my 'musical diet'. >> > >> >> Almost without exception, songs that are notable specifically *for* >> their great guitar work are songs that also had vocals. > > Depends on who is doing the listening, "notable" does not necessarily > mean the most famous or popular with record sales to back it up. There > are plenty of players who've played notable solos on instrumental tunes > that the average music listener is totally unaware of simply because it's > not a vocal tune. That the average music listener prefers vocal tunes is > nothing new... the voice is the most 'relatable' of instruments and the > best part is you don't need any musical training to sing in the shower. > >> People like >> Vai and Satriani might be technical masters, but their original music >> is horrible > > Some of it, no doubt. > >>, and when they try to play other genres -- usually in an >> attempt to show how "unsophisticed" or technically easy those genres are >> -- they fail utterly. They seem to have an assburger-like dissociation >> from the emotional aspect of music. That's also true of most jazzy >> stuff in general though. > > I don't disagree about certain aspects with Vai and Satriani (not > the emotion part, though). But to say this of jazz music in general? > Not buying... and not only because you're painting with too broad > a brush but because you don't find it listenable... *you* don't, and > maybe the gen pop doesn't, either, but that's only because they > lack interest in instruments that aren't a voice. Guys like Vai and > Satriani only fail utterly (and only relatively) in the commercial > version of success, in the musical version they're both highly > regarded (not really my cup of tea, however). > >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. >> >> Case in point: Jeff Beck. :) > > Nice try... Jeff Beck *also* fulfills the role of 'being popular' Not. > and > became so under his own name fairly early in his career. Beck was > going to make it regardless of who he played with, same with the > players I mentioned above... same with guys like Scott Henderson, > Mike Stern, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, etc. Who? who who who and who? (an extra who there for some other you might want to add that also nobody listens to). > There are some people > who just stick out due to their uniqueness, they're not being listened > to by the average consumer of music because what they do doesn't > focus on vocals... but they're playing circles around everybody else > and doing so in ways that can't be easily emulated. > I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler.
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 13:22 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <75368795-2656-4cd4-add3-2ba89a5d4b21@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477154 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: (snip) > I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element and he's lost. Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because he has *it* in a jazz context. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that as well as that kid can.
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 14:47 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <8deed851-23b8-4eda-83cb-4fdcb2309e12@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477161 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 2:22:49 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > (snip) > > > I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. > > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element > and he's lost. Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because > he has *it* in a jazz context. > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> > > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that > as well as that kid can. In fact Jonas Eklundh Communication's lies became more vile. So naturally I regret assisting Jonas Eklundh Communication. While I am sure he approved of it, I've not helped the situation at all. Jonas Eklundh Communication is trying to project their MO onto Klaus Schadenfreude. For as long as I can remember Jonas Eklundh Communication has encouraged the view that Klaus Schadenfreude needs 'quotes' to point out all his slander. The fact is that nobody needs any proof to do that. So Jonas Eklundh Communication pulls this hateful ad hominem poppycock in an incompetent effort to 'push' the idea that Klaus Schadenfreude is like him. I think we have different beliefs entirely. I thought showing Jonas Eklundh Communication a taste of his own medicine might help the situation. It did not. You never take blame for your own words. Quotes that are easily found in a search. Despite Jonas Eklundh Communication's claim that he has "no skill in making automated posts" (a lie as illustrated by the fact that he posts over 1000 times a month) he was quoted asking support staff how they would automate posting through Google Groups. - Do not click this link! http://comp.os.linux.advocacy.narkive.com/711dskzA/steven-petruzzellis-admits-he-can-not-back-his-claims-about-snit https://youtu.be/IhOfBmWwCVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AglvCo3dJ38&feature=youtu.be Jonas Eklundh
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 23:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9a0sb803.au3@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477161 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > (snip) > >> I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. > > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element > and he's lost. Check out Guitar George. He knows all the chords. > Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because > he has *it* in a jazz context. > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> > > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that > as well as that kid can. Are you sure? Is that why a technical master like Steve Vai completely butchers Voodoo Chile, while SRV hits it out of the park? Look at this nonsense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrMYc1A2Sw compared to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoB_YBXXEOU Approaching music from a theoretical perspective almost always leads to a complete failure to understand the basics of what music is supposed to do: elicit emotion from the listener. That's why jazz just sucks. Music appreciation is not about sitting around in a smokey bar wearing a beanie and wayfarers and snapping your fingers, Daddio.
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 16:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <cd6c57d8-d1a8-41dd-b9b9-6725b39b25ae@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477172 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 4:46:50 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > >> I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. > > > > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but > > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element > > and he's lost. > > Check out Guitar George. He knows all the chords. > > > Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very > > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people > > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were > > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might > > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to > > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend > > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. > > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because > > he has *it* in a jazz context. > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> > > > > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and > > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing > > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before > > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that > > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, > > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that > > as well as that kid can. > > Are you sure? Is that why a technical master like Steve Vai completely > butchers Voodoo Chile, while SRV hits it out of the park? > > Look at this nonsense: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrMYc1A2Sw > > compared to this: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoB_YBXXEOU > > Approaching music from a theoretical perspective almost always leads > to a complete failure to understand the basics of what music is supposed > to do: elicit emotion from the listener. That's why jazz just sucks. > Music appreciation is not about sitting around in a smokey bar wearing > a beanie and wayfarers and snapping your fingers, Daddio. I just set a KF and will never see the posts. John Gohde's attack has made a veritable mess of this group via GG, so I don't waste time browsing chrisv with my client anymore. One good thing he has done with this flooding is that the John Gohde filter has been shown to be the right choice. Honestly, what lie? I am not going to play like chrisv didn't save my skin on this stuff and I appreciate his guidance. John Gohde has chrisv to study and can learn to seem like he is no longer complete ignorant from here on out. My view point: Even if you were merely researching for the sake of learning, the belief that acquiring know-how as being one of having "diddly" to show for it does not make sense because you'll of course have the proficiency to show for it and knowledge is something you can show off. To my way of thinking, spending effort researching a problem isn't a waste. Claiming you know all and making an effort to convince chrisv that it's true? That is a waste. HA! How did John Gohde get *so* vainglorious he concludes everything is about himself?? - Get Rich Slow!! https://youtu.be/UkAyrfOZaXc https://www.facebook.com/jenny.eklund Jonas Eklundh Communication
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 18:32 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <db88ef6d-2e5c-458a-92db-672a9fbb1518@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477172 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 4:46:50 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > >> I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. > > > > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but > > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element > > and he's lost. > > Check out Guitar George. He knows all the chords. > > > Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very > > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people > > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were > > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might > > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to > > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend > > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. > > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because > > he has *it* in a jazz context. > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> > > > > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and > > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing > > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before > > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that > > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, > > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that > > as well as that kid can. > > Are you sure? As sure as I am that Knopfler will never play like that kid. > Is that why a technical master like Steve Vai completely > butchers Voodoo Chile, while SRV hits it out of the park? > > Look at this nonsense: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrMYc1A2Sw ??? The sound quality of this video is *total* crap! No matter... the reality is, if Vai wanted to, he could play it exactly like Hendrix or any number of variations that sound much like him. But that's not his thing, it hasn't been since he was 15. > compared to this: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoB_YBXXEOU The sound of this video is professionally done and part of SRV's MO in covering Hendrix *was* to sound more like Jimi than not. > Approaching music from a theoretical perspective almost always leads > to a complete failure to understand the basics of what music is supposed > to do: elicit emotion from the listener. That's why jazz just sucks. To *you*, because you only derive emotion from a limited set of conditions you've grown accustomed to. > Music appreciation is not about sitting around in a smokey bar wearing > a beanie and wayfarers and snapping your fingers, Daddio. LOL! Music appreciation is more than listening to the 'pop' or 'glam' bands that even occur in metal and hard rock. One of the things that made Journey such a killer band before they went commercial was they didn't follow the 3-4 minute radio format and they played stuff that wasn't being done by a zillion other bands.
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 18:54 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <9d6fef5c-bce2-46fb-bb2e-704eeb9565bf@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477191 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 7:32:37 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 4:46:50 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > > > (snip) > > > > > >> I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. > > > > > > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but > > > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element > > > and he's lost. > > > > Check out Guitar George. He knows all the chords. > > > > > Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very > > > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people > > > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were > > > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might > > > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to > > > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend > > > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. > > > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because > > > he has *it* in a jazz context. > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> > > > > > > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and > > > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing > > > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before > > > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that > > > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, > > > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that > > > as well as that kid can. > > > > Are you sure? > > As sure as I am that Knopfler will never play like that kid. > > > Is that why a technical master like Steve Vai completely > > butchers Voodoo Chile, while SRV hits it out of the park? > > > > Look at this nonsense: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrMYc1A2Sw > > ??? The sound quality of this video is *total* crap! > > No matter... the reality is, if Vai wanted to, he could play it exactly > like Hendrix or any number of variations that sound much like him. > But that's not his thing, it hasn't been since he was 15. > > > compared to this: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoB_YBXXEOU > > The sound of this video is professionally done and part of SRV's > MO in covering Hendrix *was* to sound more like Jimi than not. > > > Approaching music from a theoretical perspective almost always leads > > to a complete failure to understand the basics of what music is supposed > > to do: elicit emotion from the listener. That's why jazz just sucks. > > To *you*, because you only derive emotion from a limited set of conditions > you've grown accustomed to. > > > Music appreciation is not about sitting around in a smokey bar wearing > > a beanie and wayfarers and snapping your fingers, Daddio. > > LOL! Music appreciation is more than listening to the 'pop' or 'glam' > bands that even occur in metal and hard rock. One of the things that > made Journey such a killer band before they went commercial was > they didn't follow the 3-4 minute radio format and they played stuff > that wasn't being done by a zillion other bands. I'm not angry, to the contrary, I'm in stitches because Sigmond's nonsense is so transparent. He actively didn't speak of all the tasks that he would soon poo poo... and we all know why. At least he has other trolls rushing to his rescue. Can you knock off seeking for my attention? Sigmond's toned down the zillions of self promoting, BS attacks he used to post but he is certainly unchanged in the honesty department. He just uses sock puppets more to make those circuses. - My Snoring Solution! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4xD43Khhkw http://www.5z8.info/facebook-of-sex_w4l4wg_bomb Jonas Eklundh Communication AB
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-14 03:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <szb90380ag.ay4@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477191 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 4:46:50 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> > >> > (snip) >> > >> >> I don't think anybody's playing circles around Knopfler. >> > >> > Harmonically they are (playing to changes). Knopfler is great but >> > he is largely a licks player. Put him in something out of his element >> > and he's lost. >> >> Check out Guitar George. He knows all the chords. >> >> > Most of the guys I'm talking about are musicians, very >> > different than being a guitar player. Some of these guys are people >> > you've heard on records but you had no idea it was them. If you were >> > to attempt to learn the licks to Sultans of Swing you could do it, might >> > take you a few months to nail it but you could do it. Compare that to >> > improvising over the changes in the Monmouth tune, you could spend >> > a decade and still not get close to being able to do what Ford did. >> > Here's a 14 year old kid making changes like few pros can... because >> > he has *it* in a jazz context. >> > >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iwgDFk62g> >> > >> > There's a huge difference between running scales or playing licks and >> > making tough changes (it requires a *lot* more knowledge). The thing >> > you're missing is... this kid can learn to play Sultans of Swing before >> > lunch time, by dinner he'd have enough of the stylistic stuff down that >> > he'd play it better than 90% of the people who have ever copied it. OTOH, >> > Knopfler will never, in his entire lifetime, play a complex tune like that >> > as well as that kid can. >> >> Are you sure? > > As sure as I am that Knopfler will never play like that kid. > Let's hope that one day that kid tells his dad, "I am not playing this shit music of yours anymore," and picks up a Les Paul and hits the road for for fame and fortune with some friends, one of whom is a singer. :) I guarantee that his eating disorder will fade then, and he'll start getting some girls. >> Is that why a technical master like Steve Vai completely >> butchers Voodoo Chile, while SRV hits it out of the park? >> >> Look at this nonsense: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yrMYc1A2Sw > > ??? The sound quality of this video is *total* crap! > Vai's sound comes through fine, and it's clear how out of touch he is with the song. > No matter... the reality is, if Vai wanted to, he could play it exactly > like Hendrix or any number of variations that sound much like him. > But that's not his thing, it hasn't been since he was 15. > He shouldn't be playing it if he's not going to put his heart into it. >> compared to this: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoB_YBXXEOU > > The sound of this video is professionally done and part of SRV's > MO in covering Hendrix *was* to sound more like Jimi than not. > It's not about sounding like Hendrix. It's about how into the song he is. That emotion comes through to the listener. >> Approaching music from a theoretical perspective almost always leads >> to a complete failure to understand the basics of what music is supposed >> to do: elicit emotion from the listener. That's why jazz just sucks. > > To *you*, because you only derive emotion from a limited set of conditions > you've grown accustomed to. > Yeah, that's it. Shucks. I guess I'm just not sophisticated. :) >> Music appreciation is not about sitting around in a smokey bar wearing >> a beanie and wayfarers and snapping your fingers, Daddio. > > LOL! Music appreciation is more than listening to the 'pop' or 'glam' > bands that even occur in metal and hard rock. One of the things that > made Journey such a killer band before they went commercial was > they didn't follow the 3-4 minute radio format and they played stuff > that wasn't being done by a zillion other bands. Dude, bands were playing long, album-format songs way before Journey came on the scene. And I just checked and only a few of Journey's songs on their first four albums went much longer than 5 minutes. But this is not about pop radio format anyway. Even those bands playing the long songs had *singers*, and emotion in their playing. Some of them were absolutely great and *never* got any radio play: Rainbow, with Ronnie Dio singing, for instance. "Rising" album had two 8-minute songs back- to-back, filling one side of the LP, with the second song continuing the story from the first. And both were masterful, both musically and especially vocally. The really good stuff from Kansas also never got any radio play. On and on... And BTW, I hated 80s shredders almost as much as I hate jazz.
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 10:52 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <b712fdf6-1125-439d-83c6-1c6a2a10031c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477135 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: (snip) > I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > for that matter, I'm happy to say. Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at 30 years of age.
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 20:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <x90b803g.ah3@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477147 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > (snip) > >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who > can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> > > My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's > due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies > of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to > listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet > my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, > much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually > *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a > "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at > 30 years of age. Dude, you just don't get it. Nobody wants to hear those chords at all, much less anybody wanking around them. :)
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 12:44 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <da530f1b-d610-4986-9393-a726fdc4015b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477153 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:01:58 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > > > Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who > > can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> > > > > My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's > > due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies > > of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to > > listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet > > my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, > > much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually > > *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a > > "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at > > 30 years of age. > > Dude, you just don't get it. Nobody wants to hear those chords at all, > much less anybody wanking around them. :) Android is based on Linux. You've proven that it is Klaus Schadenfreude. Despite all the bragging Klaus Schadenfreude has done on this topic, the 'Growth Hacker' does not know how to do this. It seriously takes a couple seconds to click and drag across a range and 'capitalize' it. Did Klaus Schadenfreude think that was clever? Was that meant to be your best shot? I bet Klaus Schadenfreude does not even know what is wrong with Cooledit. Klaus Schadenfreude suffers from senile fantasies so, to him, everything, even people ignoring him, are "insults". Who does not know this? HA! -- One Smart Penny https://youtu.be/m37dF5X2S-4 Jonas Eklundh
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| From | Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 13:00 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <75c65a20-5370-41b7-b390-7910cb90ff47@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477153 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:01:58 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > > > Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who > > can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> > > > > My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's > > due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies > > of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to > > listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet > > my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, > > much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually > > *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a > > "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at > > 30 years of age. > > Dude, you just don't get it. Nobody wants to hear those chords at all, Nobody who is an average listener, perhaps... but there are plenty of people who do listen. > much less anybody wanking around them. :) Seems it has something in common with Linux ;)
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| From | Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 13:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <3b718525-f6a9-4504-afad-9f7a7e58650c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #477159 |
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 2:00:36 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:01:58 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: > > > > > > (snip) > > > > > >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain > > >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed > > >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that > > >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive > > >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary > > >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present > > >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, > > >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. > > > > > > Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who > > > can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> > > > > > > My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's > > > due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies > > > of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to > > > listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet > > > my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, > > > much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually > > > *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a > > > "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at > > > 30 years of age. > > > > Dude, you just don't get it. Nobody wants to hear those chords at all, > > Nobody who is an average listener, perhaps... but there are plenty of > people who do listen. > > > much less anybody wanking around them. :) > > Seems it has something in common with Linux ;) Enough already. You're again trying to pretend you are something you are not. You're the dull knife in the drawer and your many stupid programs show this. I won't ask Despicable Owl how any part of Snit's rear tastes no matter how habitually Despicable Owl kisses it. Valuable content creation will leave once the druggies overindulge. That and there will invariably be a snit thrower or two in an unmoderated group (hint: Despicable Owl). The specifics of the bullshit aside, we've all seen who usually pitches a fit when he does not get a response. I bet he thinks his life was perfect. KDE is probably my second favorite DE and the only one I suggest to Linux morons. Primary interface is LXDE, though. Lots of desktop effects is all you require after transitioning. -- Eight things to never feed your dog! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/BVpdH5KOc6s Jonas Eklundh Communication
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| From | owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-14 00:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tzb80a03.ae3@rooftop.invalid> |
| In reply to | #477159 |
Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 1:01:58 PM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 10:26:27 AM UTC-7, owl wrote: >> > >> > (snip) >> > >> >> I've noticed the tendency of some guitarists to heap praise on certain >> >> players who are no doubt technically capable, but who have never managed >> >> to gain a popular following because they just don't play anything that >> >> anybody wants to hear. I think that praise has more to do with defensive >> >> exclusivity, keeping those players "theirs" and feigning an imaginary >> >> "inside knowledge" or "sophisticated ear" that just does not present >> >> itself to a non-guitarist listener, or even most guitarists in general, >> >> for that matter, I'm happy to say. >> > >> > Name one of the guitarists from any of the bands you've posted who >> > can improvise a solo over a complex set of chords like this: >> > >> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3e0BZTsXQ> >> > >> > My take: people who are casual listeners don't give credit where it's >> > due because they can't, they haven't put the time in to the intricacies >> > of art on a higher level than the commercial stuff they're used to >> > listening to. Angus Young is now 63 years of age, even now, I'd bet >> > my legs he wouldn't even be able to grasp a feel for the chord chart, >> > much less play over the changes. Why? Because doing so actually >> > *does* require "inside knowledge"... musical knowledge... and a >> > "sophisticated ear", both of which Ford clearly had in abundance at >> > 30 years of age. >> >> Dude, you just don't get it. Nobody wants to hear those chords at all, > > Nobody who is an average listener, perhaps... but there are plenty of > people who do listen. > But even they don't like what it does to their ears. They like the challenge of mining the details of what makes it "great" (since that's never obvious). >> much less anybody wanking around them. :) > > Seems it has something in common with Linux ;) I'd say it has more in common with Mack, since snobbery and metaphorical badge display seem to be a big part of jazz. Is there really anything to *like* about jazz, other than admiration for a player accomplishing something that may be technically difficult? Where does the emotional bond with the music come in? Because, honestly, I just don't get anything at all from jazz.
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