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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #317439

Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie

From owl <owl@rooftop.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie
Date 2015-08-29 09:33 +0000
Organization ok by me, so long as it doesn't get out of hand
Message-ID <fandms83.kjfd@rooftop.invalid> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <D20669CC.5916F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <fanmcjv83.djf@rooftop.invalid> <D2067E87.5918C%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> <fanmcj0.aw3fp@rooftop.invalid> <D2069CA7.5919F%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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In comp.os.linux.advocacy Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 8/28/15, 10:47 PM, in article fanmcj0.aw3fp@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 8/28/15, 7:48 PM, in article fanmcjv83.djf@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
>>> <owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:
>> ...
>> 
>>>     But for those users who require more control over the printing process
>>>     and the printers they use, OS X provides it.
>>>     -----
>> 
>>> This is the standard way apps print on OS X.
>> 
>> Why are you moving the goalposts from available PDF services to print
>> dialogs?  

> PDF Services are in the print dialogs! Does not mean you cannot work with
> PDFs elsewhere: heck, in many OS X programs you can. Here:

> <http://youtu.be/yufGdadRcdE>

> Those are two other programs... each has the "Share" menu, which is ALSO
> tied to OS X Services, but it is not the "PDF Services" feature. And each
> has OTHER features tied to PDFs which are not tied to either the PDF
> Services in the print dialog NOR the OS X Share feature.

> Nobody is saying programmers should not or could not add other features to
> their programs.

>> Any application on linux can do *all* of the things you mentioned earlier even
>> without the capability to print, which make sense given that none of those
>> things are even logically related to printing.

> Why not show a few programs doing this - say a couple of common web
> browsers, a couple common word processors, a couple common image editors,
> and a couple common email clients.

> This would be TRIVIAL to do on OS X. It is not a theoretical possibility
> that it COULD be done, it is that it is IS done. It is provided by the
> system itself and programs tap into PDF Services by simply using the
> almost-universally used Print dialog.

>> Who would think to go to a print dialog to send email?

> Who would think to go to a Print dialog to save a PDF? Yeah, it is a bit
> weird... but once you know it is there it is a great feature. They could
> rename "Print" to be "PDF Services" or "Convert to PDF and Handle", because
> that is really what is happening, but I think that would confuse more
> people.

>> Who would even *want* to?  That's just crazy.

> Why would you go to the Print dialog to save as PDF or postscript. It is
> because it makes technical sense... and nobody has come up with a more clear
> way to label the "Print" menu item. Maybe "Print and More"? "Print Plus"?
> "Print +"?

> Not sure that would help reduce confusion... but, sure, it is a bit of a bit
> of a conundrum for the UI designers. It is also completely off topic. :)

I think anything you do often enough to have a quick link in the
print dialog deserves a better workflow:

https://vid.me/2SuL

BTW, is El Capitan going to boot to the print dialog so OS X can be
more efficient?

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Thread

Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 01:13 +0200
  Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-27 16:21 -0700
  Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 10:06 +0200
    Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 13:39 +0200
      Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 15:33 +0200
        Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Tommy Troll <elkabong99@Itroll.org> - 2015-08-28 09:50 -0400
          Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 16:12 +0200
            Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 08:01 -0700
        Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-08-31 06:02 +0000
          Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-31 08:58 +0200
            Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 00:15 -0700
              Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 00:29 -0700
              Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-31 09:35 +0200
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 01:19 -0700
            Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 00:33 -0700
              Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-31 10:04 +0200
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 01:20 -0700
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-31 12:15 +0200
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 09:24 -0700
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-09-03 11:47 -0500
            Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-08-31 07:57 +0000
              Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-31 10:08 +0200
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 01:23 -0700
                Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-08-31 08:27 +0000
                Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 01:32 -0700
                Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2015-08-31 20:11 +0000
                Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 13:27 -0700
              Re: Peter Köhlmann lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 01:15 -0700
            Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-09-03 11:44 -0500
      Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 08:24 -0700
        Re: Michael Glasser lying again owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 02:13 +0000
          Re: Michael Glasser lying again Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 19:41 -0700
            Re: Michael Glasser lying again owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 02:48 +0000
              Re: Michael Glasser lying again Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 21:09 -0700
                Re: Michael Glasser lying again Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 21:16 -0700
                Re: Michael Glasser lying again owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 05:47 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 23:17 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 09:33 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 11:44 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 19:17 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 13:02 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 20:16 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 13:31 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 21:57 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 15:33 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 16:11 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-29 23:37 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-30 01:53 +0200
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 17:04 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-30 02:05 +0200
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 17:30 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-30 02:06 +0200
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 17:31 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-30 05:04 -0500
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 17:00 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-30 00:18 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 17:32 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2015-08-30 00:39 +0000
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 21:46 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-30 04:29 -0500
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-30 11:01 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Steve Carroll <fretwizzen@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 13:43 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-31 20:38 -0500
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 18:52 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2015-09-01 07:22 -0500
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-09-01 10:46 -0700
                Re: Owl and Peter deem knowledge to be a lie GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-09-01 12:06 -0600
    Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-08-28 12:34 -0600
      Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2015-08-28 20:43 +0200
        Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 13:17 -0700
        Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> - 2015-08-28 15:04 -0600
      Re: Michael Glasser lying again (Was: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-28 13:17 -0700
  Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-29 10:48 -0500
    Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 11:40 -0700
      Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-29 14:01 -0500
        Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-29 12:54 -0700
          Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Nobody <nobody@invalid.com> - 2015-08-29 19:56 -0500
        Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-08-31 09:07 -0500
          Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 12:35 -0700
    Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2015-08-31 09:04 -0500
      Re: OS X: Print to PDF from the Finder Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-08-31 10:33 -0700

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