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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #354209

Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.os.linux.advocacy, uk.misc, uk.politics.misc

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frederick wrote:

> On 08/05/16 17:55, 7 wrote:
>> frederick wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/05/16 14:41, 7 wrote:
>>>> frederick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/05/16 12:39, 7 wrote:
>>>>>> Linux largest investor in global electronics markets
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux has for a very long time been the largest investor
>>>>>> in the electronics market.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Linux foundation isn't really an investor, rather companies use
>>>>> Linux within their devices.
>>>>
>>>> WTF? Troll!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Linux is an operating system.
>>>> You can download it from here: https://www.kernel.org/
>>>> Its not a foundation!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> You've never heard of the Linux Foundation?
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation
>>>
>>> Linux is in-fact a kernel, and Linux has never "invested" in anything.
>>
>>
>> Troll!!!
>>
>> This is you and your sideways interpretations and
>> your speed trolling.
>>
>> The law of diminishing returns apply to all your trolls.
>>
>> When Linux invests its time in CPUs, products and gadgets,
>> it means all the developers who make Linux have invested
>> their time and code to make Linux work better onto
>> those numerous devices.
>>
>> Linux has invested heavily in ARM processors for example
>> which results in several billion Linux computing
>> devices in the market today.
>>
>> The Linux foundation has nothing directly to do with this.
>> They started long AFTER Linux had been around.
>>
> 
> So when you say things like: "Linux has for a very long time been the
> largest investor in the electronics market." What you really mean is the
> largest investor of time?


Clearly you are clueless are you not as to what Linux is now?

Anyone who downloads owns that Linux and can invest time
and money to make products. And if they want support,
the contribute drivers and updates back to the Linux kernel maintainers.
There are also vested interests that pay developers to
maintain drivers. Most products have a driver man.
So you bring out a new USB webcam, you can mail the right guy
with the numbers and it will magically work on all the billions
of PCs and gadgets that have update facilities.


>>>>>> Anything up to trillions of dollars worth of electronics
>>>>>> gadgets run Linux inside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux is the free operating system with source code
>>>>>> available to download to reconfigure and make
>>>>>> any gadget you want and sell and make money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apart from some of the firmware.
>>>>
>>>> Eh?
>>>>
>>>> Linux is free to download operating system
>>>> You can download it from here: https://www.kernel.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's free to download, but not all the firmware in vanilla Linux has
>>> "source code available to download" [1].
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.fsfla.org/svn/fsfla/software/linux-libre/releases/branches/4.5/deblob-check
>>
>>
>> The law of diminishing returns apply to all your trolls.
>> This doesn't represent anything of significance.
>>
> 
> It represents that there is firmware in the Linux kernel for which there
> is no source code.

The law of diminishing returns apply to all your trolls.
This doesn't represent anything of significance such
as show stopping functionality that anyone cares about.

More than likely the companies that are submitting this
kind of crap wants the attention or to ride on the coat
tails of Linux because they want their product
to work across the billions of devices out there.


>>>>>> So typically the 2 billion Android smartphones and
>>>>>> tablets out there has Linux as its core operating
>>>>>> system on top of which runs the Android software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take any router, ADSL or DSL modem, it has Linux
>>>>>> inside to make it work. That means every household
>>>>>> that has broadband already has a Linux gadget
>>>>>> protecting it from all the bad things the internet
>>>>>> has right there in the router.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every flat screen TV and monitor has Linux inside.
>>>>>> It needs it for the push buttons and the On Screen Display (OSD)
>>>>>> setting manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.
>>>>
>>>> So what does it use to make the OSD work troll?!
>>>>
>>>> Every flat screen TV and monitor has Linux built into
>>>> its controller with Linux running on it for the OSD.
>>>
>>> It probably uses something like µITRON, or runs bare metal.
>>>
>>> Linux would be somewhat overkill to run a flat-screen monitor.
>>
>> The law of diminishing returns apply to all your trolls.
>>
>> No such thing as "probably bare metal".
>> Things like µITRON have long ago faded - and you probably have to
>> pay good money to get it while Linux is free.
> 
> µITRON is still very much alive, and is in more devices than Linux.
> There are free versions of µITRON.

You are confused between devices that need an OS and embedded
that may need an RTOS.
uITRON is not something you would build a decent OS with.
So its faded in the sense its not important for gadgets
that need an OS like a smartphone or an IoT device with
ethernet, wifi stack and so on.


>> The Linux chips are about $2 to $5, RAM $1, and run
>> all the graphical stuff, window management and fonts.
>>
>> It would be your job to collect all the relevant
>> datasheets and libraries to make the Linux OSD
>> before releasing a TV, and then make it work
>> better than competing OSD.
>>
>>>>>> These Linux systems have been evolving all the time.
>>>>>> Many a flat TV has USB and can now play MP3 tunes,
>>>>>> play mpeg movie files and connect to network to become
>>>>>> smart TVs that can download and play content from
>>>>>> 10's of thousands of internet radio stations and internet
>>>>>> TV stations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the DVD recorders and players contains Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.
>>>>
>>>> Liar. They all have it. Which other OS is used for the mpeg decoder
>>>> format conversions, and embedded controller?
>>>
>>> It may have a DSP chip or be running something else.
>>
>> TROLL!!!!
>>
>> It doesn't!! No such thing these days!! :)
> 
> There are such things. Texas instruments makes them, Blackfin makes
> them. Many people make them.

Custom DSP chips? 
Not any more they don't.


>> The DSP is now all silicon IP and tied together
>> with Linux and an ARM or MIPS processor to make the
>> product. The products need to do video, sound, display,
>> touch screen, internet, USB, infra-red, and many other functions all of
>> which are available as IP for silicon along with code
>> for Linux CPUs such as ARM. These kinds of SoCs cost around $5.
>> And they all run Linux.
> 
> They do not "all run Linux". DVD firmware is often distributed as a hex
> file, or bin file, which suggests to me that they don't run Linux.

Doh!

What do you think is in that hex file?
it can be uCLinux, but more likely an app that Linux will then run.


>>>>>> All the IP cameras contains Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Liar. They all have it.
>>>> The video streams and http servers are Linux.
>>>
>>> Granted, most probably do use some form of Linux, but not all.
>>
>> The law of diminishing returns apply to all your trolls.
>>
>> It would be your education that would tell you
>> which is out there and which are not.
>>
>> For most things you can download all the necessary
>> things to make your own IP cameras.
>> Example is cubieboard.
>>
> 
> And? The people manufacturing the IP cameras may have decided to do
> things differently.

They run a minimalist uCLinux on a minimalist ARM with IP for DSP.
Standard procedure.

>>>>>> All the printers contains Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.

>>>> The rendering engines are all Linux.
>>>>
>>>>>> All the set top boxes contain Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.
>>>>
>>>> The MPEG decoders, and cryptographic engines
>>>> are all Linux.
>>>
>>> That's wrong. Linux is just a kernel. Furthermore, if we're talking
>>> about the entire operating system there are MPEG decoders and
>>> cryptographic engines that don't use Linux.
>>>
>>> Nero Digital, QuickTime, DivX Pro Codec, 3ivx are examples of MPEG
>>> decoders that are proprietary (evil) and don't have to run on Linux.
>>
>> You are confused between PC formats, hardware decoders,
>> software encoders and decoders, open source and closed sources.
> 
> You mentioned MPEG decoders.
> 
>> All closed sources version of Nero, quicktime, divx, etc will
>> run on Linux. You just compile it for fsck sake to make product!!! You
>> buy it from closed sources companies.
> 
> They may run on Linux, but that does not mean they are "all Linux". How
> can you trust a proprietary program to do what it says it will do and
> only that?


Don't use it if you don't trust it.
Or pay the owner of the software if you must use it.
He will sell you a binary blob and an API.
Just like all commercial vendors of software - Linux or proprietary.
None should require root permissions if done properly.


>> If you have the sources, you compile and run anything in Linux.
>> So it will run on Linux. There are also open sourced
>> version of closed sources divx for example. It can
>> be freely used anywhere where the divx patent has not
>> been filed.
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
>>
>>
>>>>>> Almost all the major electronics items sold in the high street
>>>>>> has Linux built inside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the retailers, they need to send their product
>>>>>> managers and locate and specify more Linux in
>>>>>> more products. So for example, putting a camera
>>>>>> and internet reporting fridge would add 20 dollars
>>>>>> to a fridge but you can sell it for $1000
>>>>>> and tons of money for the extra features.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you hire clowns for product managers, you will get
>>>>>> stupid products that is not trending. So you need
>>>>>> to push them and specify half of all fridges must come
>>>>>> with Linux and internet and cameras which can be sold at
>>>>>> a premium. And it will be done by the manufactures
>>>>>> because have free access to Linux and to all these
>>>>>> gadgets to add just for you because you requested it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all the major corporations now using Linux
>>>>>> such as IBM, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Cisco, Oracle,
>>>>>> NASDAQ, etc, all the tech jobs are now going Linux.
>>>>>> The aim is to bring Linux to every desktop.
>>>>>> Chromebooks have been explosive in this regards,
>>>>>> with Linux powering the machine on which Chrome runs.
>>>>>> But there are a lot more ways to get Linux desktop
>>>>>> such as deleting windopws and installing Linux on
>>>>>> old machines to learn Linux.
>>>>>> So get some experience when at university learning Linux,
>>>>>> because it will be needed for all the great things that
>>>>>> are out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.distrowatch.com
>>>>>> http://www.ubuntu.com
>>>>>> http://www.livecdlist.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whilst I generally agree with the enthusiasm for Linux, you can't go
>>>>> about making false statements and expect people to believe them. That,
>>>>> IMO, taints Linux and it's community rather than aids it.
>>>>
>>>> You really are a total ignoramus beginning with failure to understand
>>>> Linux is not a foundation but just source code for building an
>>>> operating systems. And that this operating system is critical to all
>>>> the software written on top of it such as graphics engines, window
>>>> managers, audio and video encoders and decoders, web servers etc.
>>>>
>>>> Nearly everything is done with Linux and if it isn't you merely
>>>> have to say what OSen and firmware they are running on.
>>>>
>>>> A long time ago, it was popular to make your own embedded OS
>>>> for products.
>>>>
>>>> These days, it is not possible because big items such as mpeg decoders,
>>>> window managers, ethernet controllers etc are not something
>>>> you can keep redesigning and redeveloping with every new product. You
>>>> instead take it from Linux with all the drivers built in and 
management
>>>> software for all the peripherals such as cameras, storage, USB,
>>>> ethernet, video streams etc built into Linux and the chip so that it
>>>> all works after configuration files have been set up and the entire
>>>> thing recompiled.
>>>>
>>>>
>>

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Thread

Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-08 11:39 +0000
  Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets frederick <fakeemail@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 14:16 +0100
    Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-08 13:41 +0000
      Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets frederick <fakeemail@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 15:23 +0100
        Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-08 16:55 +0000
          Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets frederick <fakeemail@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 19:41 +0100
            Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets August West <august@kororaa.com> - 2016-05-08 19:52 +0100
            Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-08 20:30 +0000
            Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-05-09 14:38 +0100
              Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-09 18:37 +0000
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-05-10 09:22 +0100
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2016-05-10 11:06 +0200
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-10 13:59 +0000
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Desk Rabbit <me@example.com> - 2016-05-12 17:56 +0100
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-12 19:15 +0000
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 12:24 -0700
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 12:42 -0700
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 14:30 -0700
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 12:45 -0700
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-12 14:30 -0700
                Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2016-05-14 18:52 +0000
  Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets X11 Sucks <xsucks@xxx.org/null> - 2016-05-08 22:26 +0100
    Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2016-05-09 04:47 -0700
    Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-09 18:16 +0000
  Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Me Sham <osirus47@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 11:05 -0700
    Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-09 18:22 +0000
      Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Me Sham <osirus47@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 12:20 -0700
        Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2016-05-09 12:22 -0700
        Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-05-09 21:35 +0000
          Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets Me Sham <osirus47@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 16:59 -0700
            Re: Linux largest investor in global electronics markets tmelmosfire <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 19:38 -0700
  BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! John Gohde <john.h.gohde@gmail.com> - 2016-05-10 09:38 -0700

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