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Hello World

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  Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-07 12:53 -0600
    Re: Hello World Inge Svensson <ingesvensson@bredband.net> - 2015-03-07 19:58 +0100
    Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-08 15:02 +0000
      Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 14:51 -0500
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:41 +0000
          Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:44 +0000
          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:51 -0500
            Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:11 -0500
              Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:51 +0000
                  Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:52 +0000
                    Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 21:52 -0500
                      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 12:09 +0000
                        Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 07:52 -0500
                          Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 13:31 +0000
                            Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 09:04 -0500
                              Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:10 -0500
                                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 10:14 -0500
                                  Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:26 -0500
                                  Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:32 +0000
                                    Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 14:57 -0400
                                      Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                                        Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 22:02 +0000
                                          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 22:36 -0400
                                            Re: Hello World Tony Cito <tonycito@this.is.invalid> - 2015-03-10 13:23 +0000
                                              Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                                        Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 19:28 -0400
                                          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                                            Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-10 20:58 -0400
                                          Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-10 22:31 -0400
                                      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:14 +0000
                                    Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                                  Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 13:56 -0400
                                    Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:15 -0500
                                      Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                                        Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:25 -0500
                                          Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 11:23 +0000
                                      Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:37 -0400
                                      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 21:58 +0000
                                        Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 18:09 -0500
                                          Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-10 23:43 +0000
                                          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                                    Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:17 -0500
                                      Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                                        Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:27 -0400
                                        Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 15:18 +0000
                                      Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 13:31 +1300
                          Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:29 +1300
                            Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:29 -0500
                  Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 13:26 +1300
          Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:08 -0500
            Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
        Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-09 03:26 +0000
    Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 14:20 +0000
      Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:42 +0100
        Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:05 +0000
      Re: Hello World Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-09 08:12 -0700
      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:48 +0000
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 18:30 +0000
          Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 19:35 +0100
        Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:11 +0000
          Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-10 12:16 +0000
        Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:35 +1300
        Re: Hello World "HankG" <hgxrp@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-11 13:58 -0400

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#46233

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 21:58:22 +0000, Lewis wrote:

> Not at all the same thing as OO.
> 
> print address.number + address.street
> 
> Where address is an object that contains classes number and street
> (and maybe others as well).

That's merely an array.

Unless I misunderstood your example, you can make an array in *any* 
language.

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#46257

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
> On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 21:58:22 +0000, Lewis wrote:

>> Not at all the same thing as OO.
>> 
>> print address.number + address.street
>> 
>> Where address is an object that contains classes number and street
>> (and maybe others as well).

> That's merely an array.

Nope. I can see how it might appear to be similar, but it is not an
array.

> Unless I misunderstood your example,

You did.


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
But I been sane a long while now, and change is good.
But I been sane a long while now, and change is good.

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#46260

In article
<4bd48$54fe281a$43da7656$25205@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:

> > Not at all the same thing as OO.
> > 
> > print address.number + address.street
> > 
> > Where address is an object that contains classes number and street
> > (and maybe others as well).
> 
> That's merely an array.

no it isn't.

> Unless I misunderstood your example, you can make an array in *any* 
> language.

you can, but it will be buggy. 

much better to use container classes which manage everything *for* you.

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#46208

On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:56:30 -0400, Alan Meyer wrote:

> A huge one is APIs.  In the old days, if I needed a hash table, a tree 
> structure, or a linked list, I wrote it myself.  Today it all comes out 
> of APIs that are built-in to the language and/or environment.

Yes but...

This should make things simpler.

Instead of writing your own bubble sort, or zeller's congruence, or
whatever, you just find one and feed it the variables in the order
it wants it.

So, seems to me, the whole API & "widget" thing (Qt or whatever), should
make things *easier*; not harder.

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#46211

In article
<cf9ae$54fdffd6$43da7656$24852@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:

> So, seems to me, the whole API & "widget" thing (Qt or whatever), should
> make things *easier*; not harder.

it does, by orders of magnitude.

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#46215

On 3/9/2015 5:19 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article
> <cf9ae$54fdffd6$43da7656$24852@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
> Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> So, seems to me, the whole API & "widget" thing (Qt or whatever), should
>> make things *easier*; not harder.
>
> it does, by orders of magnitude.

I agree with you and nospam here absolutely.  In the complex modern 
environments they make things practical that otherwise would not be. 
But the kinds of things we do today are hugely more complicated than 
they used to be.

Call up a complicated web page, for example from cnn.com or whoever you 
like.  View the source of the page in your browser.  Then try to figure 
out exactly how it works.  It can be mind boggling.

There can also be a surprising learning curve for some of the APIs. 
Some of them employ some exceptionally sophisticated concepts that take 
a lot of studying and experimentation to understand.  I'm not saying 
they don't make things easier.  I'm saying there's a lot to learn.

    Alan

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#46248

On 09/03/15 21:19, nospam wrote:
> In article
> <cf9ae$54fdffd6$43da7656$24852@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
> Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> So, seems to me, the whole API & "widget" thing (Qt or whatever), should
>> make things *easier*; not harder.
>
> it does, by orders of magnitude.
>

Well, it's one of those double edged swords.

When you know an API in detail it makes things so much simpler.

However, the number and complexity of many of the APIs can make the learning curve so steep that it's seems impossible 
when you first look at it. The usability of an API is directly related to the quality of the documentation which comes 
with it, and the quality of the documentation varies enormously.

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#46236

In article
<cf9ae$54fdffd6$43da7656$24852@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 13:56:30 -0400, Alan Meyer wrote:
> > 
> > A huge one is APIs.  In the old days, if I needed a hash table, a tree 
> > structure, or a linked list, I wrote it myself.  Today it all comes out 
> > of APIs that are built-in to the language and/or environment.
> 
> Yes but...
> 
> This should make things simpler.
> 
> Instead of writing your own bubble sort, or zeller's congruence, or
> whatever, you just find one and feed it the variables in the order
> it wants it.
> 
> So, seems to me, the whole API & "widget" thing (Qt or whatever), should
> make things *easier*; not harder.

It can make it easier and faster to create applications ... but it also
means you're relying on someone else's building blocks, which may not
be as efficient or as fast as they could / should be. That probably
doesn't matter so much with today's fast computers, unless you're
trying to do something that requires high speed or direct hardware
access.

In some cases those building blocks may not allow you to do what you
want to do, which in Apple's case is purposely done to keep the system
safer.

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#46216

In article
<b4004$54fd977c$43da7656$20482@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:09:15 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
> > 
> > forget Cobol & Fortran
> 
> But that's what I learned on!
> :)

Yep, that's the good ol' days of real programming, along with BASIC, C,
Pascal, Assembler / machine code, etc.

These days "programming" is mostly "point 'n' click" involving little
more than moving little blocks of pre-defined code around with a mouse
and typing in a few parameters.  :-(

Many "programmers" these days don't have the first understanding of how
to write a program ... even when I ask for a bank statement at a branch
I get a printout where the columns don't line-up properly, which is one
of the very basic things you learn in business programming.  :-\

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#46218

In article <100320150929429126%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> These days "programming" is mostly "point 'n' click" involving little
> more than moving little blocks of pre-defined code around with a mouse
> and typing in a few parameters.  :-(

nonsense. you're talking out your ass again.

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#46151

In article <mdijp3$bvp$1@dont-email.me>, Ed Cryer
<ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
> > In article
> > <dd1ed$54fcbb0a$43da7656$14356@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
> > Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ios needs a mac to develop, but android does not.
> >>>
> >>> the original post was cross-posted to both the ipad and android groups.
> >>
> >> I have both Android and iOS phones.
> >> I have only Windows for my PC.
> >>
> >> Does this mean I can't program for iOS?
> >
> > a mac is required for ios development, since xcode only works on a mac.
> > you don't need anything fancy, so a used mac will suffice.
> >
> > you can run windows on the mac too, so no loss.
> >
> 
> You can also run iOS on a Windows virtual environment.

XCode and Swift are the official Apple methods, but you may not need
those. There are other programming environments that claim to be able
to be able to create applications for Windoze, Mac, iOS, Android,
although I've never needed to look at them to know how good or
otherwise they are or if there are Windoze versions. It's likely they
use some sort of runtime environment to handle the differences, meaning
the application will be much bigger than it really needs to be.

For example, at one point Adobe's Flash application (rather than the
browser plug-in) was going to be able to create iOS apps, but they ran
into issues with Apple and I didn't bother following it since Flash is
complete crap.

RealBASIC might be another one that claimed to be able to make iOS apps.

Of course, if you really want to program iOS apps, then you also need
to join the Apple's Developer program (which does require a Mac, etc.).
You're not allowed to install your own apps on iOS devices without it.

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#46141

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 20:41:22 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:

> Have you got a Mac computer?

Just an iPhone and Android phone and a Windows PC.

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#46143

In article
<f1929$54fcba60$43da7656$14356@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com>,
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:

> > Have you got a Mac computer?
> 
> Just an iPhone and Android phone and a Windows PC.

then no ios dev for you.

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#46155

For your reference, records indicate that 
Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> wrote:

> No matter whether you're coding in the C-shell, assembly language, 
> C, Fortran, Basic, Java, Cobol, etc., if you can get a program
> to simply print "hello world" to the standard output (stdio), 
> then you've got a basic understanding of what's needed.

Your inability to grasp the interface differences between mobile apps
and command line tools is impressive.

> You can build from there.

Yes, I can.  You . . . not so much.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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#46164

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
> I just want to make a simple Hello World style app, to be
> my first app ever. 

> Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
> very first app?

10 print "Hello World"
20 goto 10


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
Mirrors contain infinity. Infinity contains more things than you think.
Everything, for a start. Including hunger. Because there's a million
billion images, but only one soul to go around. --Witches Abroad

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#46165

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> schreef:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
> > I just want to make a simple Hello World style app, to be
> > my first app ever. 
> 
> > Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
> > very first app?
> 
> 10 print "Hello World"
> 20 goto 10


Java.

-- 
____________________________________________
                             Bye, BugHunter.

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#46194

Okay, so one time? In band camp? BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> was all, like:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> schreef:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
>> > I just want to make a simple Hello World style app, to be
>> > my first app ever. 
>> 
>> > Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
>> > very first app?
>> 
>> 10 print "Hello World"
>> 20 goto 10

> Java.

<spit>


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
'Oh, I never play to win.' She smiled. 'But I do play not to lose.'

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#46171

In article <slrnmfrb3a.ucd.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
> > very first app?


5  PR #3
> 10 print "Hello World"
> 20 goto 10

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#46185

Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
>> I just want to make a simple Hello World style app, to be
>> my first app ever.
>
>> Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
>> very first app?
>
> 10 print "Hello World"
> 20 goto 10
>
>

REM To print "Hello World" 100 times
10  Let a$ = "Hello World"
20  Let x = 1
30  Print a$
40  Let x = x+1
50  If x < 101 goto 30
100 Stop

Alternatively;

20  For n= 1 to 100;
     Print a$
     Let n= n+1
100 Stop

 From that raw beginning you can build; adding things like stepping the 
displays from line to line, inputting data, outputting graphical stuff.

It's a beginning, but it has the benefit of taking you right in.

Ed

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#46189

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Sunshine
>> <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> was all, like:
>>> I just want to make a simple Hello World style app, to be
>>> my first app ever.
>>
>>> Is there a good tutorial you know of for making someone's
>>> very first app?
>>
>> 10 print "Hello World"
>> 20 goto 10
>>
>>
>
> REM To print "Hello World" 100 times
> 10  Let a$ = "Hello World"
> 20  Let x = 1
> 30  Print a$
> 40  Let x = x+1
> 50  If x < 101 goto 30
> 100 Stop
>
> Alternatively;
>
> 20  For n= 1 to 100;
>      Print a$
>      Let n= n+1
> 100 Stop
>
>  From that raw beginning you can build; adding things like stepping the
> displays from line to line, inputting data, outputting graphical stuff.
>
> It's a beginning, but it has the benefit of taking you right in.
>
> Ed
>
>
>

20  For n= 1 to 100;
     Print a$
     Let n= n+1

There's an error in the above coding. As it stands it would only print 
the message 50 times.

Ed

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