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Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals

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  Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-22 16:33 +0000
    Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-22 09:48 -0700
      Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Victor <victorheyne@notreal.org> - 2025-05-22 12:07 -0500
        Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-22 10:14 -0700
          Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Victor <victorheyne@notreal.org> - 2025-05-22 12:31 -0500
            Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-22 11:50 -0700
      Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Victor <victorheyne@notreal.org> - 2025-05-22 12:17 -0500
    Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 13:38 -0400
      Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-22 17:48 +0000
        Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 14:25 -0400
          Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-22 19:48 +0000
            Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 15:53 -0400
              Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-22 20:02 +0000
                Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 16:34 -0400
                  Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-22 22:22 +0000
    Re: Everyone now has your login.   No they don't. (was: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals) Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-05-23 00:23 +0000
      Re: Everyone now has your login.   No they don't. Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-23 02:51 +0000
        Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-22 20:18 -0700
        Re: Everyone now has your login.   No they don't. Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-05-23 22:29 +0000
          Re: Everyone now has your login.  No they don't. Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 16:17 +0000
            Re: Everyone now has your login.  No they don't. Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-24 20:46 +0000
              Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-24 14:34 -0700
    Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2025-05-23 18:07 +0000
      Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-05-23 18:38 +0000
        Re: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-05-23 12:10 -0700

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#77006 — Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals

Since only Apple devices are designed as dumb terminals, you must have a
login to the Apple mothership - which - Apple can't protect.

So everyone has your login now.
Because you chose to buy a dumb terminal instead of a real computer.

 Apple logins with plain text passwords found in massive database of 184M records
 <https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/22/apple-logins-with-plain-text-passwords-found-in-massive-database-of-184m-records/>

No other operating system requires a mothership account.
Just Apple.

No wonder Apple devices are the most exploited in the world.
 <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog> 

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#77007

On 2025-05-22 09:33, Marion wrote:
> Since only Apple devices are designed as dumb terminals,

False.

> you must have a
> login to the Apple mothership - which - Apple can't protect.

False.

> 
> So everyone has your login now.

False.

> Because you chose to buy a dumb terminal instead of a real computer.
> 
>   Apple logins with plain text passwords found in massive database of 184M records
>   <https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/22/apple-logins-with-plain-text-passwords-found-in-massive-database-of-184m-records/>

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'

> 
> No other operating system requires a mothership account.
> Just Apple.

<https://www.howtogeek.com/739837/fyi-windows-11-home-will-require-a-microsoft-account-for-initial-setup/>

'However, if you want to use the Google Play Store, download apps, or 
back up your data, you will need to sign in with a Google account.'

<https://hellosmartlife.com/do-you-need-a-google-account-to-use-google-pixel/>

> 
> No wonder Apple devices are the most exploited in the world.
>   <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

False.

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#77008

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

> 'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'

None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.

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#77009

On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:
> On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:
> 
>> 'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'
> 
> None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.

The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything in 
particular about any one company.

And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much personal 
information.

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#77011

On Thu, 22 May 2025 10:14:24 -0700, Alan wrote:

> On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:
>> 
>>> 'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'
>> 
>> None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.
> 
> The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything in 
> particular about any one company.
> 
> And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much personal 
> information.

When someone has your Apple ID and password, especially from a database
leak like the one mentioned in the 9to5Mac article, they gain access to a
significant portion of your digital life within the Apple ecosystem. This
is incredibly serious, and here's a breakdown of what they could get:

Direct Access to Your Apple Services and Data:

iCloud Data: This is a huge one. They can access:
Photos and Videos: All photos and videos stored in iCloud Photos.
iCloud Drive Files: Any documents, PDFs, or other files you've saved to
iCloud Drive.

iCloud Backups: Backups of your iPhone, iPad, and other Apple devices,
which can contain a vast amount of personal data (messages, app data,
health data, call history, etc.).
Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders: All your synced personal
information.

iMessage and FaceTime History: Your communication records.
Health Data: If synced to iCloud.
Passwords (iCloud Keychain): While iCloud Keychain is encrypted, if they
can log in to your Apple ID on a new trusted device (which they could
attempt to do), they might gain access to your saved passwords for websites
and apps.

Purchases:
App Store and iTunes Store Purchases: They can see your purchase history
and potentially make new purchases using your saved payment methods.
Apple Pay: If your Apple ID is linked to Apple Pay, they might be able to
use your payment methods.

Find My:
Device Location: They can see the real-time location of all your Apple
devices (iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, AirPods, AirTags).
Device Locking/Erasing: They could remotely lock your devices, display a
message, or even erase them, rendering them unusable to you.

Tracking You: They can track your location and the locations of people you
share your location with.

Messages and FaceTime: They can send and receive messages and make FaceTime
calls as you, potentially scamming your contacts.
Settings and Preferences: They can see and potentially change many of your
Apple ID and device settings.
Risks Beyond Direct Access:

Identity Theft: With access to your personal information (email, phone
numbers, birth date, payment info, even documents in iCloud Drive), they
could use this to attempt identity theft.
Financial Loss: Unauthorized purchases through the App Store, iTunes Store,
or Apple Pay.

Phishing and Scams: Knowing your Apple ID and password makes it easier for
them to craft highly convincing phishing attempts that could trick you into
revealing even more sensitive information (e.g., banking details, other
online account passwords).

Access to Other Accounts (Password Reuse): The 9to5Mac article explicitly
states that this database contained logins for various other services,
including Facebook, Google, Microsoft, banks, and government portals. If
you reuse your Apple ID password on other sites, those accounts are also
now severely compromised. This is why password reuse is a major security
risk.

Ransomware/Extortion: In extreme cases, they might lock your devices or
encrypt your data and demand a ransom.
What You Should Do IMMEDIATELY (if your Apple ID was part of a breach or
you suspect compromise):

Change your Apple ID password immediately. Make it strong, unique, and
long.
Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for your Apple ID if you haven't
already. This is critical! Even if they have your password, they won't be
able to log in without access to your trusted device to receive the
verification code.
Review your trusted devices in your Apple ID settings (Settings > [Your
Name] > Password & Security > Trusted Devices). Remove any devices you
don't recognize.
Check your account information: Verify your name, phone numbers, email
addresses, and payment methods are correct and haven't been altered by the
attacker.
Monitor your bank and credit card statements for any unauthorized
purchases.
Be vigilant for phishing attempts: Be extra cautious about any emails or
messages that appear to be from Apple or other services, especially if they
ask for personal information or direct you to click on links.
Consider using a password manager to generate and store strong, unique
passwords for all your online accounts, reducing the risk of password
reuse.
Use tools like Have I Been Pwned to check if your email addresses or phone
numbers have appeared in other data breaches.
The article emphasizes that the passwords were found in "plain text," which
is a nightmare scenario as it means the attackers don't even need to crack
or decrypt them. This underscores the severity of such a breach and the
importance of strong security practices.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77015

On 2025-05-22 10:31, Victor wrote:
> On Thu, 22 May 2025 10:14:24 -0700, Alan wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft,
>>>> and PayPal.'
>>> 
>>> None of those are ever required just to make the device work
>>> normally.
>> 
>> The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything
>> in particular about any one company.
>> 
>> And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much
>> personal information.
> 
> When someone has your Apple ID and password, especially from a
> database leak like the one mentioned in the 9to5Mac article, they
> gain access to a significant portion of your digital life within the
> Apple ecosystem. This is incredibly serious, and here's a breakdown
> of what they could get:
> 
> Direct Access to Your Apple Services and Data:
> 
> iCloud Data: This is a huge one. They can access: Photos and Videos:
> All photos and videos stored in iCloud Photos. iCloud Drive Files:
> Any documents, PDFs, or other files you've saved to iCloud Drive.

If you choose to use iCloud Data...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and 
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

> 
> iCloud Backups: Backups of your iPhone, iPad, and other Apple
> devices, which can contain a vast amount of personal data (messages,
> app data, health data, call history, etc.). Contacts, Calendars,
> Notes, Reminders: All your synced personal information.

If you choose to use iCloud Backups...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and 
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

> 
> iMessage and FaceTime History: Your communication records. Health
> Data: If synced to iCloud. Passwords (iCloud Keychain): While iCloud
> Keychain is encrypted, if they can log in to your Apple ID on a new
> trusted device (which they could attempt to do), they might gain
> access to your saved passwords for websites and apps.

If you choose to use iMessage and FaceTime...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and 
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

> 
> Purchases: App Store and iTunes Store Purchases: They can see your
> purchase history and potentially make new purchases using your saved
> payment methods. Apple Pay: If your Apple ID is linked to Apple Pay,
> they might be able to use your payment methods.

Oh, no! They can see you bought Angry Birds!

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and 
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

> 
> Find My: Device Location: They can see the real-time location of all
> your Apple devices (iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, AirPods,
> AirTags). Device Locking/Erasing: They could remotely lock your
> devices, display a message, or even erase them, rendering them
> unusable to you.

This one is true.

> 
> Tracking You: They can track your location and the locations of
> people you share your location with.
> 
> Messages and FaceTime: They can send and receive messages and make
> FaceTime calls as you, potentially scamming your contacts. Settings
> and Preferences: They can see and potentially change many of your 
> Apple ID and device settings. Risks Beyond Direct Access:

Not if you've established two-factor authentication...

...which is required by Apple.

> 
> Identity Theft: With access to your personal information (email,
> phone numbers, birth date, payment info, even documents in iCloud
> Drive), they could use this to attempt identity theft. Financial
> Loss: Unauthorized purchases through the App Store, iTunes Store, or
> Apple Pay.

1. You don't need to put much of any personal information into an Apple 
Account

2. We've already covered that merely having your Apple Account userID 
and password isn't enough to access iCloud.

3. Same for purchases
> 
> Phishing and Scams: Knowing your Apple ID and password makes it
> easier for them to craft highly convincing phishing attempts that
> could trick you into revealing even more sensitive information
> (e.g., banking details, other online account passwords).

How would that work, exactly?

> 
> Access to Other Accounts (Password Reuse): The 9to5Mac article
> explicitly states that this database contained logins for various
> other services, including Facebook, Google, Microsoft, banks, and
> government portals. If you reuse your Apple ID password on other
> sites, those accounts are also now severely compromised. This is why
> password reuse is a major security risk.

And how is that Apple's fault if you reuse passwords?

> 
> Ransomware/Extortion: In extreme cases, they might lock your devices
> or encrypt your data and demand a ransom. What You Should Do
> IMMEDIATELY (if your Apple ID was part of a breach or you suspect
> compromise):

They can't "encrypt your data".

> 
> Change your Apple ID password immediately.

Duh.

> Make it strong, unique,
> and long.

Duh.

> Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for your Apple ID
> if you haven't already. This is critical! Even if they have your
> password, they won't be able to log in without access to your
> trusted device to receive the verification code. Review your trusted
> devices in your Apple ID settings (Settings > [Your Name] > Password
> & Security > Trusted Devices). Remove any devices you don't
> recognize. Check your account information: Verify your name, phone
> numbers, email addresses, and payment methods are correct and
> haven't been altered by the attacker. Monitor your bank and credit
> card statements for any unauthorized purchases. Be vigilant for
> phishing attempts: Be extra cautious about any emails or messages
> that appear to be from Apple or other services, especially if they 
> ask for personal information or direct you to click on links. 
> Consider using a password manager to generate and store strong,
> unique passwords for all your online accounts, reducing the risk of
> password reuse. Use tools like Have I Been Pwned to check if your
> email addresses or phone numbers have appeared in other data
> breaches. The article emphasizes that the passwords were found in
> "plain text," which is a nightmare scenario as it means the
> attackers don't even need to crack or decrypt them. This underscores
> the severity of such a breach and the importance of strong security
> practices.

Indeed.

You've discovered that good security practices are important.

Bravo.

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#77010

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

>> No other operating system requires a mothership account.
>> Just Apple.
> 
> <https://www.howtogeek.com/739837/fyi-windows-11-home-will-require-a-microsoft-account-for-initial-setup/>

Maybe this idiot should tell the millions of Windows 11 owners who only had
to set up a local account if this idiot thinks the account is required.

This idiot should ask the windows 11 ng for details before responding.

> 'However, if you want to use the Google Play Store, download apps, or 
> back up your data, you will need to sign in with a Google account.'
> 
> <https://hellosmartlife.com/do-you-need-a-google-account-to-use-google-pixel/>

Maybe this idiot should tell the millions of Android owners who only hit
the skip button when Google asked if they wanted to set up an account that
this idiot knows more than they do about not setting up an Android account.

All the apps on the google play store are downloadable without an account.
This idiot should ask the Android newsgroup for details before responding.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77012

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

>Apple devices are designed as dumb terminals
>
>No other operating system requires a mothership account.
>Just Apple.


Where do you come up with that?  I loathe iOS and macOS, but they are
real OSes, and Microsoft is moving to requiring an online account. You
can criticize Apple without making up ridiculous nonsense.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77013

On Thu, 22 May 2025 13:38:49 -0400, Joel wrote :


>>No other operating system requires a mothership account.
>>Just Apple.
> 
> Where do you come up with that?  I loathe iOS and macOS, but they are
> real OSes, and Microsoft is moving to requiring an online account. You
> can criticize Apple without making up ridiculous nonsense.

Hi Joel,

Remember, I probably have more Apple devices than you do.
And I have Android devices too. And I test them.

I don't do only what Apple tells me to do, Joel. Nor Google.
So I know the differences.

You have no clue. Neither do any of the Apple trolls.
None of the Apple trolls knows anything about iOS.

iOS can't really be called a full-fledged operating system.
Because iOS can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does.

I'm not so sure about MacOS but iOS isn't really an operating system.
Being nice, the best you could call it is that it's a toy operating system.

There's almost nothing you can do with it that *every* other common
consumer operating system does, e.g., something as simple as add a
system-wide firewall, or use the Tor Browser, or run Wi-Fi graphical
debugging tools, or simply change the skin (i.e., the launcher) or set the
default app to almost any file type, to spoofing the GPS, to simply
connecting the device to a PC not from Apple and slide files back and
forth.

At best, iOS is brain dead out of the box.
It can't do the most basic of things every other operating system does.

Even if you pull down your pants to let Apple gleefully shove their
privacy-robbing AppleID deeply into your asshole, all the painful screaming
in the world means nothing to Apple who hates their customer two much they
won;t even let you remove that stick up your ass by removing the 2FA.

No other common consumer OS vender hates their customer as much as Apple
does in that NOBODY but Apple requires 2FA just to use the device daily.

Only Apple requires that mothership account shoved up your ass (if you want
the device to do anything at all - even as it's brain dead anyway).

And only Apple enjoys your pain so much after shoving that account up your
ass that Apple won't let you remove the 2FA which Apple requires you have.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77014

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

>>>No other operating system requires a mothership account.
>>>Just Apple.
>> 
>> Where do you come up with that?  I loathe iOS and macOS, but they are
>> real OSes, and Microsoft is moving to requiring an online account. You
>> can criticize Apple without making up ridiculous nonsense.
>
>Hi Joel,
>
>Remember, I probably have more Apple devices than you do.
>And I have Android devices too. And I test them.
>
>I don't do only what Apple tells me to do, Joel. Nor Google.
>So I know the differences.
>
>You have no clue. Neither do any of the Apple trolls.
>None of the Apple trolls knows anything about iOS.
>
>iOS can't really be called a full-fledged operating system.
>Because iOS can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does.
>
>I'm not so sure about MacOS but iOS isn't really an operating system.
>Being nice, the best you could call it is that it's a toy operating system.
>
>There's almost nothing you can do with it that *every* other common
>consumer operating system does, e.g., something as simple as add a
>system-wide firewall, or use the Tor Browser, or run Wi-Fi graphical
>debugging tools, or simply change the skin (i.e., the launcher) or set the
>default app to almost any file type, to spoofing the GPS, to simply
>connecting the device to a PC not from Apple and slide files back and
>forth.
>
>At best, iOS is brain dead out of the box.
>It can't do the most basic of things every other operating system does.
>
>Even if you pull down your pants to let Apple gleefully shove their
>privacy-robbing AppleID deeply into your asshole, all the painful screaming
>in the world means nothing to Apple who hates their customer two much they
>won;t even let you remove that stick up your ass by removing the 2FA.
>
>No other common consumer OS vender hates their customer as much as Apple
>does in that NOBODY but Apple requires 2FA just to use the device daily.
>
>Only Apple requires that mothership account shoved up your ass (if you want
>the device to do anything at all - even as it's brain dead anyway).
>
>And only Apple enjoys your pain so much after shoving that account up your
>ass that Apple won't let you remove the 2FA which Apple requires you have.


So, is it meth or cocaine, that you're on?  Heh.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77016

On Thu, 22 May 2025 14:25:57 -0400, Joel wrote :


> So, is it meth or cocaine, that you're on?  Heh.

Classic Apple troll response, Joel.
You prove all the Apple trolls own the capacitive mind of a small child.

You tell these Apple trolls facts about the Apple devices they love.
And all they can respond with to the facts - are their childish taunts.

Q: Why can't Joel respond to the facts about Apple like an adult would?
A: He's an Apple troll, that's why. He owns the mind of a small child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77017

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

>> So, is it meth or cocaine, that you're on?  Heh.
>
>Classic Apple troll response, Joel.
>You prove all the Apple trolls own the capacitive mind of a small child.
>
>You tell these Apple trolls facts about the Apple devices they love.
>And all they can respond with to the facts - are their childish taunts.
>
>Q: Why can't Joel respond to the facts about Apple like an adult would?
>A: He's an Apple troll, that's why. He owns the mind of a small child.


Incorrect, I think iOS and macOS are garbage, crapware, goofy even.
Certainly I agree with you that they're less secure, but I don't agree
that an iPhone is a dumb terminal, that's just ignoring a basic fact.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77018

On Thu, 22 May 2025 15:53:47 -0400, Joel wrote :


> Incorrect, I think iOS and macOS are garbage, crapware, goofy even.
> Certainly I agree with you that they're less secure, but I don't agree
> that an iPhone is a dumb terminal, that's just ignoring a basic fact.

You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.

I respond to each person in the way that they approach me, where I consider
your response above that of an adult - so I will respond in kind as an
adult.

Why do I claim the iPhone is a dumb terminal, Joel?

Might it be because almost nothing works on iOS unless you log that
terminal into the Apple mainframe servers, Joel? 

Worse, if you don't have an account on the mainframe, then the dumb
terminal device does almost nothing but take pictures. That's about it.

You can't run any software other than what came with the device, Joel.
That's pretty dumb since almost nobody can make do with the native apps.

But what's worse, is even if you do create an account on the mainframe, the
device is *still* a dumb terminal in that it can't do anything every other
operating system does, Joel.

Why can't iOS run the Tor Browser, for example?
Why can't iOS run a system-wide Firewall, for example?
Why can't iOS do graphical wi-fi/cellular debugging, for example?

The list of things every other operating system does that iOS can't do is
astoundingly high, Joel. It's astronomical what iOS can't do. It's a toy.

At best, iOS is a toy.
But it's really just a dumb terminal.

Without logging into Apple's mainframes, it can't do anything useful.
And even with logging into the mainframes, it's still brain dead.

Try to set the default app launcher for example, on iOS.
Try to spoof your GPS location for example, on iOS.
Try to set the default camera app, or music player or video player or file
manager or homescreen launcher, etc.

The best characterization of iOS is that it's merely a dumb terminal.

And even when you log into the mainframe, then it progresses to being brain
dead since it can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does. 

You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.

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#77019

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

>> Incorrect, I think iOS and macOS are garbage, crapware, goofy even.
>> Certainly I agree with you that they're less secure, but I don't agree
>> that an iPhone is a dumb terminal, that's just ignoring a basic fact.
>
>You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
>because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.
>
>I respond to each person in the way that they approach me, where I consider
>your response above that of an adult - so I will respond in kind as an
>adult.
>
>Why do I claim the iPhone is a dumb terminal, Joel?
>
>Might it be because almost nothing works on iOS unless you log that
>terminal into the Apple mainframe servers, Joel? 
>
>Worse, if you don't have an account on the mainframe, then the dumb
>terminal device does almost nothing but take pictures. That's about it.


It may have restrictions on what you can do without logging in, I
really don't know, but that doesn't equate to it being a dumb
terminal.  It is a real computer system known as smartphone.


>You can't run any software other than what came with the device, Joel.
>That's pretty dumb since almost nobody can make do with the native apps.


Well, frankly I don't get why one would buy a proprietary-OS device if
they aren't willing to have an online account with the OEM, that's
true in Windows 11, Google account for an Android device, it might not
always be required as you are saying it is with iOS, but it has real
purpose in using the device.


>But what's worse, is even if you do create an account on the mainframe, the
>device is *still* a dumb terminal in that it can't do anything every other
>operating system does, Joel.
>
>Why can't iOS run the Tor Browser, for example?
>Why can't iOS run a system-wide Firewall, for example?
>Why can't iOS do graphical wi-fi/cellular debugging, for example?
>
>The list of things every other operating system does that iOS can't do is
>astoundingly high, Joel. It's astronomical what iOS can't do. It's a toy.
>
>At best, iOS is a toy.
>But it's really just a dumb terminal.
>
>Without logging into Apple's mainframes, it can't do anything useful.
>And even with logging into the mainframes, it's still brain dead.
>
>Try to set the default app launcher for example, on iOS.
>Try to spoof your GPS location for example, on iOS.
>Try to set the default camera app, or music player or video player or file
>manager or homescreen launcher, etc.
>
>The best characterization of iOS is that it's merely a dumb terminal.
>
>And even when you log into the mainframe, then it progresses to being brain
>dead since it can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does. 
>
>You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
>because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.


I don't know enough about iOS to take all that apart, you could be
right I guess, I'll probably never know because I wouldn't spend a
dime on Apple's crapware and gear.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent.  States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#77020

On Thu, 22 May 2025 16:34:22 -0400, Joel wrote :


> It may have restrictions on what you can do without logging in, I
> really don't know, but that doesn't equate to it being a dumb
> terminal.  It is a real computer system known as smartphone.

I appreciate that you are speaking like an adult, where the dumb terminal
concept, I'm sure you're aware of, which is that the computer monitor and
the keyboard and the modem connection were needed to "do anything", right?

You'd use the monitor/keyboard/modem to connect to the mainframe servers,
and from there you can make the monitor in front of you "do something".

The iOS device is very similar to that dumb terminal, although I do agree
with you that it can do some things without logging into the mainframes.

What's DIFFERENT about iOS is that you *must* log into those mainframes in
order to do the stuff you like about iOS such as installing apps.

In that respect, the iOS device is a dumb terminal since every other
operating system does NOT need to log into anything to install apps.

To be patently clear, you do NOT need to log into Microsoft to install apps
on Windows & you do NOT need to log into Google to install apps on Android.

Only iOS is built to be so dumb that you can't do anything without logging
into the mainframe - which is akin to the old concept of a dumb terminal.
 
>>You can't run any software other than what came with the device, Joel.
>>That's pretty dumb since almost nobody can make do with the native apps.
> 
> Well, frankly I don't get why one would buy a proprietary-OS device if
> they aren't willing to have an online account with the OEM, that's
> true in Windows 11, Google account for an Android device, it might not
> always be required as you are saying it is with iOS, but it has real
> purpose in using the device.

I thank you for keeping an adult hat on when you made that observation.

However... it's hard to answer you when you say that, because it's like
saying "frankly I don't get why one would buy food at a grocery store when
you can have a delivery service deliver that food to you every day.

Sure, you can have a delivery service deliver you all your food. 
For that, you'd have to have an account with that delivery service.

But most people are perfectly fine with NOT having an account with a
delivery service and then when they need food, they go to the grocery store
to get that food.

Sometimes they may have an account at a grocery store. Sometimes not.
But they can go to any grocery store with cash - even the one they have a
credit card on file with - so they have the perfect freedom they want.

It's the same with every operating system except Apple's dumb systems.
With Apple's dumb system, you're forced to have that delivery service.

Whether you want it or not.

As an example, I'm on Windows and I've *never* had a Microsoft Account.
And I can install any app I want on my Windows machine without it.

Likewise, I'm on Android and I haven't had a Google Account on my phone
for, oh, I don't know. Maybe 8 or so years. Android works fine without it.

And I can install any app I want on my Android device without it.
Even apps from the Google Play Store repository - so there's no negative.

Now, I do have iOS devices. They don't work that way. They're all designed
to be dumb terminals. So without an account on Apple's mainframes, they
pretty much don't do much. Sure, they can take pictures. But not much else.

Without logging into Apple's mainframes every day of your life, Joel, the
Apple devices don't do anything much - which is why they're dumb terminals.


>>But what's worse, is even if you do create an account on the mainframe, the
>>device is *still* a dumb terminal in that it can't do anything every other
>>operating system does, Joel.
>>
>>Why can't iOS run the Tor Browser, for example?
>>Why can't iOS run a system-wide Firewall, for example?
>>Why can't iOS do graphical wi-fi/cellular debugging, for example?
>>
>>The list of things every other operating system does that iOS can't do is
>>astoundingly high, Joel. It's astronomical what iOS can't do. It's a toy.
>>
>>At best, iOS is a toy.
>>But it's really just a dumb terminal.
>>
>>Without logging into Apple's mainframes, it can't do anything useful.
>>And even with logging into the mainframes, it's still brain dead.
>>
>>Try to set the default app launcher for example, on iOS.
>>Try to spoof your GPS location for example, on iOS.
>>Try to set the default camera app, or music player or video player or file
>>manager or homescreen launcher, etc.
>>
>>The best characterization of iOS is that it's merely a dumb terminal.
>>
>>And even when you log into the mainframe, then it progresses to being brain
>>dead since it can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does. 
>>
>>You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
>>because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.
> 
> I don't know enough about iOS to take all that apart, you could be
> right I guess, I'll probably never know because I wouldn't spend a
> dime on Apple's crapware and gear.

My main problem with Apple is simply that Apple is a deceitful company who
gets rich off of lying to its customer base, much like Big Tobacco did.

Just like millions smoked Marlboro thinking they were rough & tough
cowboys, Apple is a cancer stick for the owners of their products.

The Apple troll's cancer has taken over the Apple owner's brain to the
point that they think the worst operating system support is the best.

That is the power of propaganda.
Instead of spending money on the operating system, Apple spends all their
money on marketing it. That's why iOS is the most exploited in history.

I rue that Apple is so successful at hating their own customer base and as
a result, each Apple customer gets a stick shoved up their ass & they
defend Apple's right to shove that stick up their ass, even to the point of
waiting outside the Apple store just so Apple can remove the last stick
Apple shoved up their ass, only to shove another stick up their ass.

This new stick has no charging block (that's separate) or aux jack.
So there are multiple sticks Apple gleefully shoves up its customers' ass.
-- 
The graphic is clearly to make the point obvious what Apple does.

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#77021 — Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't. (was: Everyone now has your login - which is the problem with Apple's dumb terminals)

On May 22, 2025 at 12:33:07 PM EDT, "Arlen" <arlen@neveranyfacts.com> wrote:

More bullshit from the master bullshitter. 

First, I just changed my Apple password a couple weeks ago.  No one has my
login.

Second, you always claim you have Apple devices.   Do they have YOUR login?

Third, Google is included. Do they have YOUR Google login?  Microsoft?  
Amazon?

Fourth, this database is tiny. 184 million?  BFD. There are around 6 billion
computers/phones/tablets in use. Which means this database has maybe 3% of
logins. Very remote chance of "everyone now has your login".  

Not to mention that this 184 million records contains login info for 12
companies. So why do you focus ONLY on Apple?  What if there is a
semi-consistent distribution of logins/companies?  There may only be around 15
million (more or less) Apple logins. 

Not to mention (again) that no one knows how old this data is.  Since it is
standard procedure to change your passwords regularly, this data could easily
be 50% (more or less) junk. 

As usual, you don't think very far before you post your wildly inaccurate
claims. Lest anyone forget, just a few weeks ago you loudly claimed it was
impossible to get a photo from a Windows PC to an iPhone/iPad without using
the internet.

After we proved you were wrong on that absurd claim, you then claimed it was
impossible to install a standard SMB Server on an iPhone/iPad. After we proved
you wrong on that absurd claim, you finally shut up.

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#77022 — Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't.

On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:23:01 +0000, Tyrone wrote :


> Third, Google is included. Do they have YOUR Google login?  Microsoft?

Everything I said is factually true. You just don't like the facts.

The only common consumer operating system which requires a mothership login
just for the device to load software on it are Apple's operating systems. 

Android works just fine without a mothership account on the phone.
So does Windows.

It's only Apple devices which are designed as dumb terminals.

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#77023 — Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't.

On 2025-05-22 19:51, Marion wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:23:01 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
> 
> 
>> Third, Google is included. Do they have YOUR Google login?  Microsoft?
> 
> Everything I said is factually true.

It's not factually true that iOS devices are just "dumb terminals".

Period.

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#77028 — Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't.

On May 22, 2025 at 10:51:58 PM EDT, "Marion" <marion@facts.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:23:01 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
> 
> 
>> Third, Google is included. Do they have YOUR Google login?  Microsoft?
> 
> Everything I said is factually true. You just don't like the facts.

LOL, good one. 

So "everyone now has your login" is "factually true"? It's an opinion not
based in reality. Which means it is "non-factually" true in your mind.  

Which accounts for 99% of the absurd claims you post.

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#77034 — Re: Everyone now has your login. No they don't.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> On May 22, 2025 at 10:51:58 PM EDT, "Marion" <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 00:23:01 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
>> 
>> 
>>> Third, Google is included. Do they have YOUR Google login?  Microsoft?
>> 
>> Everything I said is factually true. You just don't like the facts.
> 
> LOL, good one. 
> 
> So "everyone now has your login" is "factually true"? It's an opinion not
> based in reality. Which means it is "non-factually" true in your mind.  
> 
> Which accounts for 99% of the absurd claims you post.

Accurate. 

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