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Re: Hello World

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 3/9/2015 4:07 PM, nospam wrote:
...
>> It largely depends on what you're writing.  If you are writing systems
>> software, you use a language like C/C++ that compiles to native machine
>> code.  If you are writing an application, the equation changes.
>
> no it doesn't.
>
> apps that are native code run faster and give a much better user
> experience.

If a task completes in 3 milliseconds instead of 30, is that a much 
better user experience?  Bear in mind that a blink of an eye is 300 
milliseconds.

If a program generates a web page in 500 milliseconds, but it takes 5 
seconds to stream all of the associated resources (images, etc.) to a 
user's browser and have the browser render it, would it really matter if 
we got the server time down to 100 milliseconds, or 10 milliseconds, or 
even 1 millisecond?

>> iOS, as mentioned, expects Objective-C or Swift.  On
>> Windows, Linux, or OS/X, you might use Python.
>
> python is not a good choice for apps, except maybe very simple ones.

It turns out that there is a great quantity of production code written 
in Python.  I've used it on projects where I believe it saved hundreds 
of thousands of dollars in programmer time while producing applications 
that ran at least as fast as the users wanted.

Java has a lot of runtime overhead not associated with C or C++ but I 
have seen benchmarks showing that, for many applications, using the 
recent Java runtimes, it's just about as fast.  I believe that I could 
write most big applications twice as quickly in Java as in C++, and I 
have a lot of experience with both.

>> The advantage to Java and Python is that they compile to an intermediate
>> representation targeted at the virtual machine implemented by the
>> language runtime.  It's possible to write and compile Java, for example,
>> on Windows, and run the code on a different platform.  The output from
>> Java compilation is the same regardless of what you compiled it on.  I
>> have IBM's Eclipse IDE written in Java here.  I run the *same* binary on
>> Windows and Linux.
>
> that doesn't work well in practice.

>> Modern hardware is fast and powerful enough that you can write in
>> something like Python and get good enough performance that you don't
>> *have* to compile to native code.
>
> except that other developers *are* compiling to native code, which
> means their apps will be that much better.

Maybe, maybe not.  It depends how mush extra work is required to develop 
the programs and how much extra work and time it takes to fix bugs, add 
enhancements, document code, and bring new programmers on board.  In my 
experience C++ is one of the harder languages for all of those issues.

Performance is only one of the criteria for selecting a programming 
language, and it can become pretty unimportant if an implementation in a 
language that's cheaper and easier to develop, debug, and maintain is 
acceptably fast.

     Alan

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Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-07 12:53 -0600
  Re: Hello World Inge Svensson <ingesvensson@bredband.net> - 2015-03-07 19:58 +0100
  Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-08 15:02 +0000
    Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 14:51 -0500
      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:41 +0000
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 20:44 +0000
        Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:51 -0500
          Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:11 -0500
            Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
              Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:51 +0000
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-08 22:52 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 21:52 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 12:09 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 07:52 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 13:31 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 09:04 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:10 -0500
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 10:14 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 11:26 -0500
                Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:32 +0000
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 14:57 -0400
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 22:02 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 22:36 -0400
                Re: Hello World Tony Cito <tonycito@this.is.invalid> - 2015-03-10 13:23 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-09 19:28 -0400
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World DMcCunney <dennis.mccunney@gmail.com> - 2015-03-10 20:58 -0400
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-10 22:31 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:14 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:07 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 13:56 -0400
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:15 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:25 -0500
                Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 11:23 +0000
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:37 -0400
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 21:58 +0000
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 18:09 -0500
                Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-10 23:43 +0000
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:17 -0500
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:19 -0500
                Re: Hello World Alan Meyer <ameyer2@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-09 16:27 -0400
                Re: Hello World Nigel Wade <nmw@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2015-03-10 15:18 +0000
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 13:31 +1300
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:29 +1300
                Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-09 16:29 -0500
                Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-09 13:26 +1300
        Re: Hello World Sunshine <sunshine@my.antispam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 16:08 -0500
          Re: Hello World nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-08 17:23 -0500
      Re: Hello World Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-09 03:26 +0000
  Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 14:20 +0000
    Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 15:42 +0100
      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:05 +0000
    Re: Hello World Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-09 08:12 -0700
    Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 17:48 +0000
      Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-09 18:30 +0000
        Re: Hello World BugHunter <bughunter@com.invalid> - 2015-03-09 19:35 +0100
      Re: Hello World Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-09 19:11 +0000
        Re: Hello World Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-03-10 12:16 +0000
      Re: Hello World Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-03-10 09:35 +1300
      Re: Hello World "HankG" <hgxrp@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-11 13:58 -0400

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