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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #73151 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-01-07 19:25 +0000 |
| Last post | 2021-01-13 22:54 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 89 — 19 participants |
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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-07 19:25 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-07 19:32 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-10 14:18 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-01-11 21:47 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-11 19:25 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 01:48 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 02:31 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-12 17:02 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-12 14:32 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:03 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 10:26 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:12 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-12 20:07 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:06 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-12 16:12 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 15:02 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-12 19:49 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 14:06 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 10:29 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:08 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 12:37 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 19:52 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2021-01-13 18:11 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 16:20 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:27 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:48 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 16:18 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 03:36 +1100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:22 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2021-01-14 09:41 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 14:33 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-14 20:16 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 15:43 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:09 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 22:54 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 19:26 +1100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-15 09:33 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:32 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-16 09:56 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-15 09:32 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 23:20 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:24 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 15:41 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:30 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 20:37 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:14 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-14 13:22 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:34 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 09:44 -0700
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 12:42 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 13:49 -0700
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-13 12:52 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-13 02:36 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:16 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 01:36 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-12 08:48 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 15:38 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-14 21:12 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-12 16:57 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:08 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-13 02:36 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 22:41 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-13 13:44 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 22:38 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 02:51 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Savageduck <savageduck1@removespam.me.com> - 2021-01-13 20:31 -0600
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2021-01-14 08:06 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 15:35 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 14:51 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 14:33 +1100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 14:34 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 03:29 +1100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 22:59 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-14 16:43 -0800
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 03:33 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-15 16:03 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 05:55 +1100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 13:28 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 14:51 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 15:16 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 19:56 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 13:55 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 15:12 +0000
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2021-01-14 16:29 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:26 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:38 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 20:22 -0500
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 03:38 +0100
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-01-13 22:54 +0100
Page 2 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next page →
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-13 12:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rtnb60$3bl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73501 |
"Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
|
| AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is
| 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not
| that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be
| 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is
| primarily instant messaging.
|
Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only
uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't
ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on
a phone when you could just send a text message.
But it's probably not a problem for you, anyway. The problem
is in the US, where Facebook
intends to force WA users to Facebook next month. I don't
know exactly what that means, but it at least entails giving
Facebook -- and their partners -- phone # and so on.
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| From | Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-13 19:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtnmi8.9v8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #73511 |
Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: > "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote > > | AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is > | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not > | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be > | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is > | primarily instant messaging. > > Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only > uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't > ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on > a phone when you could just send a text message. Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. YMMV/YMWV. The app is much more user-friendly than most SMS 'apps'. You can easily communicate in groups. That's not possible with SMS. In *addition* to those main advantages, IM apps/platforms have capabilities to include pictures, video, audio, web-content, you name it. So it can do loads more than just the plain text which SMS can do. > But it's probably not a problem for you, anyway. The problem > is in the US, where Facebook > intends to force WA users to Facebook next month. I don't > know exactly what that means, but it at least entails giving > Facebook -- and their partners -- phone # and so on. I don't know exactly what that means either, but I think it's mainly FUD and a way for Facebook to up their diminishing user base. I.e. "We now have umpteen zillion Facebook users!" Big fscking deal! With Facebook you can effectively have a 'lurkers' account. You don't have to post anything and you don't have to read anything, you just have an account (with very little personal info in it (like in my Santa Claus Google account :-))). (How do I know that? Because SWMBO has such an account so we can follow the kids and grandkids. But that's already outdated as well, because Facebook is for oldies, Real People TM are on Instagram and whatever.) But enough of this new-fangled stuff. We just had a long phone call - you know, such a thingie in which you can speak and can hear the other party - on a *fixed* phone. So there's still hope for us/me!
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| From | Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-13 18:11 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rtnum9$i9r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73527 |
On 1/13/2021 2:52 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: > Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: >> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote >> >> | AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is >> | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not >> | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be >> | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is >> | primarily instant messaging. >> >> Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only >> uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't >> ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on >> a phone when you could just send a text message. > > Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: > > It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at > home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, > SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is > <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is > very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. > YMMV/YMWV. > > The app is much more user-friendly than most SMS 'apps'. > > You can easily communicate in groups. That's not possible with SMS. > > In *addition* to those main advantages, IM apps/platforms have > capabilities to include pictures, video, audio, web-content, you name > it. So it can do loads more than just the plain text which SMS can do. > >> But it's probably not a problem for you, anyway. The problem >> is in the US, where Facebook >> intends to force WA users to Facebook next month. I don't >> know exactly what that means, but it at least entails giving >> Facebook -- and their partners -- phone # and so on. > > I don't know exactly what that means either, but I think it's mainly > FUD and a way for Facebook to up their diminishing user base. I.e. "We > now have umpteen zillion Facebook users!" Big fscking deal! > > With Facebook you can effectively have a 'lurkers' account. You don't > have to post anything and you don't have to read anything, you just have > an account (with very little personal info in it (like in my Santa Claus > Google account :-))). (How do I know that? Because SWMBO has such an > account so we can follow the kids and grandkids. But that's already > outdated as well, because Facebook is for oldies, Real People TM are on > Instagram and whatever.) > > But enough of this new-fangled stuff. We just had a long phone call - > you know, such a thingie in which you can speak and can hear the other > party - on a *fixed* phone. So there's still hope for us/me! > NYTimes By Shira Ovide There was a backlash to WhatsApp in recent days after it posted what appear to be overhauled privacy policies. Let me try to clarify what happened. Some people think the messaging app will now force those using it to hand over their personal data to Facebook, which owns WhatsApp. That’s not quite right. WhatsApp’s policies changed cosmetically and not in ways that give Facebook more data. The bottom line is that Facebook already collects a lot of information from what people do on WhatsApp. The confusion was the result of Facebook’s bungled communications, mistrust of the company and America’s broken data-protection laws. Here’s what changed with WhatsApp, and what didn’t: Facebook bought WhatsApp in 2014, and since 2016, almost everyone using the messaging app has been (usually unknowingly) sharing information about their activity with Facebook. Facebook knows the phone numbers being used, how often the app is opened, the resolution of the device screen, the location estimated from the internet connection and more, as my colleague Kashmir Hill explained five years ago. Facebook uses this information to make sure WhatsApp works properly and to help a shoe company show you an ad on Facebook. Facebook can’t peer at the content of texts or phone calls because WhatsApp communications are scrambled. Facebook also says that it doesn’t keep records on whom people are contacting in WhatsApp, and WhatsApp contacts aren’t shared with Facebook. (This Wired article is also useful.) WhatsApp has a lot of positives. It’s easy to use, and communications in the app are secure. But yes, WhatsApp is Facebook, a company many don’t trust. There are alternatives, including Signal and Telegram — both of which have gotten a surge of new users recently. The digital privacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation says Signal and WhatsApp are good choices for most people. The Wall Street Journal also ran through the pros and cons of several popular messaging apps. The reason WhatsApp recently notified app users about revised privacy rules is that Facebook is trying to make WhatsApp a place to chat with an airline about a missed flight, browse for handbags and pay for stuff. WhatsApp’s policies changed to reflect the possibility of commercial transactions involving the mingling of activity among Facebook apps — a handbag you browse in WhatsApp could pop up later in your Instagram app, for example. Unfortunately, WhatsApp did a terrible job explaining what was new in its privacy policy. It took me and Kash, a data-privacy rock star, a good amount of reporting to understand. I also want to touch on deeper reasons for the misunderstandings. First, this is a hangover of Facebook’s history of being cavalier with our personal data and reckless with how it’s used by the company or its partners. It’s no wonder that people assumed Facebook changed WhatsApp policies in gory ways. Second, people have come to understand that privacy policies are confusing, and we really don’t have power to make companies collect less data. “This is the problem with the nature of privacy law in the United States,” Kash said. “As long as they tell you that they’re doing it in a policy that you probably don’t read, they can do whatever they want.” That means digital services including WhatsApp give us an unappealing choice. Either we give up control over what happens to our personal information, or we don’t use the service. That’s it. Clearing up more WhatsApp confusion Another false belief floating around about WhatsApp — and again, this is WhatsApp’s fault, not yours — is that the app is just now removing an option for people to refuse to share their WhatsApp data with Facebook. Not quite right. Yes, when Facebook made major changes to WhatsApp privacy policies in 2016, there was a brief moment of choice. People could check a box to order Facebook not to use their data from WhatsApp for commercial purposes. Facebook would still collect the data from WhatsApp users, as I explained above, but the company would not use the data to “improve its ads and product experiences,” like making friend recommendations. But that option in WhatsApp existed for only 30 days in 2016. That was a lifetime ago in digital years, and approximately four million Facebook data scandals ago. For anyone who started using WhatsApp since 2016 — and that’s many people — Facebook has been collecting a lot of information without an option to refuse. “A lot of people didn’t know that until now,” Gennie Gebhart of the Electronic Frontier Foundation told me. And, she said, we are not to blame. Understanding what happens with our digital data feels as if it requires advanced training in computer science and a law degree. And Facebook, a company with oodles of cash and a stock value of more than $700 billion, didn’t or couldn’t explain what was happening in a way that people could grasp.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <r246dh-db9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73559 |
On 14/01/2021 00.11, Zaidy036 wrote: > On 1/13/2021 2:52 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: >> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: >>> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote ... >> With Facebook you can effectively have a 'lurkers' account. You don't >> have to post anything and you don't have to read anything, you just have >> an account (with very little personal info in it (like in my Santa Claus >> Google account :-))). (How do I know that? Because SWMBO has such an >> account so we can follow the kids and grandkids. But that's already >> outdated as well, because Facebook is for oldies, Real People TM are on >> Instagram and whatever.) >> >> But enough of this new-fangled stuff. We just had a long phone call - >> you know, such a thingie in which you can speak and can hear the other >> party - on a *fixed* phone. So there's still hope for us/me! >> > NYTimes By Shira Ovide Link, please? > > There was a backlash to WhatsApp in recent days after it posted what > appear to be overhauled privacy policies. Let me try to clarify what > happened. > ... -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 17:27 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rtqgga$kui$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73601 |
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote | > NYTimes By Shira Ovide | | Link, please? | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/technology/whatsapp-data.html Disable script before loading the page.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 23:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <uau6dh-37r.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73636 |
On 14/01/2021 23.27, Mayayana wrote: > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote > > | > NYTimes By Shira Ovide > | > | Link, please? > | > > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/technology/whatsapp-data.html > > Disable script before loading the page. Just erase cookies and reload :-) Thanks. I already found the page, anyway, by googling the text he posted ;-) -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 16:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ev36dh-db9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73527 |
On 13/01/2021 20.52, Frank Slootweg wrote: > Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: >> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote >> >> | AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is >> | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not >> | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be >> | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is >> | primarily instant messaging. >> >> Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only >> uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't >> ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on >> a phone when you could just send a text message. > > Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: > > It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at > home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, > SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is > <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is > very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. > YMMV/YMWV. I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked. By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system, universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to provide. I forgot the name. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-15 03:36 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <i6ba9eFe1p1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #73600 |
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message news:ev36dh-db9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor... > On 13/01/2021 20.52, Frank Slootweg wrote: >> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: >>> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote >>> >>> | AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is >>> | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not >>> | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be >>> | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is >>> | primarily instant messaging. >>> >>> Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only >>> uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't >>> ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on >>> a phone when you could just send a text message. >> >> Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: >> >> It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at >> home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, >> SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is >> <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is >> very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. >> YMMV/YMWV. > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked. I have a non contract plan that allows me unlimited calls, SMSs and MMSs to anyone in my country and all the other countrys that matter in the world. And it doesn’t cost me a cent and would only cost me $10 per month if I did have to pay for it. > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging > system, universal, improving over SMS, and free. Facebook has had that for years. > But they need providers to provide. I forgot the name.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 21:22 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <opl6dh-fkk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73610 |
On 14/01/2021 17.36, Rod Speed wrote: > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in message > news:ev36dh-db9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor... >> On 13/01/2021 20.52, Frank Slootweg wrote: >>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: >>>> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote >>>> >>>> | AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is >>>> | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. >>>> Not >>>> | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be >>>> | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is >>>> | primarily instant messaging. >>>> >>>> Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only >>>> uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't >>>> ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on >>>> a phone when you could just send a text message. >>> >>> Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: >>> >>> It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at >>> home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, >>> SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is >>> <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is >>> very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. >>> YMMV/YMWV. > >> I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked. > > I have a non contract plan that allows me unlimited > calls, SMSs and MMSs to anyone in my country > and all the other countrys that matter in the world. > And it doesn’t cost me a cent and would only cost > me $10 per month if I did have to pay for it. Sure. on my main phone SMSs are free. > >> By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging >> system, universal, improving over SMS, and free. > > Facebook has had that for years. Not what I'm talking about. > >> But they need providers to provide. I forgot the name. > > -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 09:41 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.25B0B9AE010FEB3870000591B38F@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #73600 |
On Jan 14, 2021, Carlos E.R. wrote (in article <ev36dh-db9.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>): > On 13/01/2021 20.52, Frank Slootweg wrote: > > Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote: > > > "Frank Slootweg"<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote > > > > > > > AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is > > > > 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not > > > > that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be > > > > 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is > > > > primarily instant messaging. > > > > > > Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only > > > uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't > > > ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on > > > a phone when you could just send a text message. > > > > Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are: > > > > It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at > > home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes, > > SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is > > <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is > > very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS. > > YMMV/YMWV. > > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked. > > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system, > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to > provide. I forgot the name. 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed. -- Regards, Savageduck
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| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 14:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rtq6b4$bbj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73615 |
"Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
| > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked.
| >
| > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system,
| > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to
| > provide. I forgot the name.
|
| 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed.
|
He's in Spain. I'm guessing that's why WA is so
big in Europe. I have a Tracphone and the one time
I received a text I think it cost me $4 worth of
minutes. :) But interestingly, I recently had to switch
from a fliphone to an Android slab and for some
reason Tracphone matched my accumulated 3,000
prepaid minutes with 3,000 texts and 3,000 MB
of data. It keeps getting cheaper all the time.
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| From | Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 20:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <3dl6dh-05s.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> |
| In reply to | #73620 |
Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
>
> | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked.
> | >
> | > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system,
> | > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to
> | > provide. I forgot the name.
> |
> | 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed.
> |
>
> He's in Spain. I'm guessing that's why WA is so
> big in Europe. I have a Tracphone and the one time
> I received a text I think it cost me $4 worth of
> minutes. :) But interestingly, I recently had to switch
> from a fliphone to an Android slab and for some
> reason Tracphone matched my accumulated 3,000
> prepaid minutes with 3,000 texts and 3,000 MB
> of data. It keeps getting cheaper all the time.
>
The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a
phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm
in the USA but, believe it or not, you're not the only country in the
world.
--
Chris Green
·
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| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 15:43 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rtqaej$ab5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73625 |
"Chris Green" <cl@isbd.net> wrote | > | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked. | The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a | phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm Carlos is in Spain. He just said he pays 30 cents per text. It used to be that way in the US. These days most people get unlimited text and calls. This discussion has been partly about why WhatsApp is so popular in Europe. Frank, in the Netherlands, said one reason was no charges for texts. I'm no expert on this. I'm just going by what others are saying. I rarely use a cellphone at all. Given the discussion it sounds to me like many Europeans pay for text messages. I'd be interested to hear more details, from a sociological more than tech point of view. My initial curiosity was trying to figure out why WhatsApp is such a popular thing in Europe but seems to be little used in the US. If you have a theory I'd be interested to hear it. You probably know more about it than I do, even if you're not a yank. :) | in the USA but, believe it or not, you're not the only country in the | world. | Got up on the wrong side of the EU today, did we?
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 23:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <n2s6dh-crp.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73630 |
On 14/01/2021 21.43, Mayayana wrote: > "Chris Green" <cl@isbd.net> wrote > > | > | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I > looked. > > | The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a > | phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm > > Carlos is in Spain. He just said he pays 30 cents per text. On a auxiliary phone, not the main one :-) I used it as an example of how absurd it can be. > It used to be that way in the US. These days most people > get unlimited text and calls. > This discussion has been partly about why WhatsApp is > so popular in Europe. Frank, in the Netherlands, said one > reason was no charges for texts. > > I'm no expert on this. I'm just going by what others are > saying. I rarely use a cellphone at all. Given the discussion > it sounds to me like many Europeans pay for text messages. > I'd be interested to hear more details, from a sociological > more than tech point of view. My initial curiosity was trying > to figure out why WhatsApp is such a popular thing in Europe > but seems to be little used in the US. If you have a theory > I'd be interested to hear it. You probably know more about it > than I do, even if you're not a yank. :) The main reason was that in Europe we had to pay for each SMS we sent, while WhatsApp was free, or at least much cheaper. We paid only the internet connection; even with a 1 GB/month it made more sense for us to use WhatsApp than SMS (we could disable automatic download of photos/videos if not on WiFi). After WhatsApp usage exploded the telephone companies realized they had lost the SMS business (they could clearly see their own figures) and only then they gave us bundles in which we could send a thousand SMS/month for a very reasonable amount, and later for nothing. But there are still plans out there where an SMS may cost anything from 10 cents to 30. Or much more if we travel to the USA/Canada: I pay almost a dollar per message in my main phone. Why WhatsApp and not another app, no idea. It was not owned by Facebook at the time. Friends told me to use WhatsApp, so that was it. You use the application most used by your contacts. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 22:54 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <rtre7f$q4c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73625 |
On 01/14/2021 12:16 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
>>
>> | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked.
>> | >
>> | > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system,
>> | > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to
>> | > provide. I forgot the name.
>> |
>> | 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed.
>> |
>>
>> He's in Spain. I'm guessing that's why WA is so
>> big in Europe. I have a Tracphone and the one time
>> I received a text I think it cost me $4 worth of
>> minutes. :) But interestingly, I recently had to switch
>> from a fliphone to an Android slab and for some
>> reason Tracphone matched my accumulated 3,000
>> prepaid minutes with 3,000 texts and 3,000 MB
>> of data. It keeps getting cheaper all the time.
>>
> The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a
> phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm
> in the USA but, believe it or not, you're not the only country in the
> world.
We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed
it. When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just
obscure English dialects.
Yeah, it sucks. What's an average European vs American monthly cost for
cell service?
--
Cheers, Bev
"Incontinence hotline, can you hold?"
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-15 19:26 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <i6d1u0Fo91tU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #73649 |
"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rtre7f$q4c$1@dont-email.me...
> On 01/14/2021 12:16 PM, Chris Green wrote:
>> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
>>>
>>> | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I
>>> looked.
>>> | >
>>> | > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system,
>>> | > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to
>>> | > provide. I forgot the name.
>>> |
>>> | 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed.
>>> |
>>>
>>> He's in Spain. I'm guessing that's why WA is so
>>> big in Europe. I have a Tracphone and the one time
>>> I received a text I think it cost me $4 worth of
>>> minutes. :) But interestingly, I recently had to switch
>>> from a fliphone to an Android slab and for some
>>> reason Tracphone matched my accumulated 3,000
>>> prepaid minutes with 3,000 texts and 3,000 MB
>>> of data. It keeps getting cheaper all the time.
>>>
>> The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a
>> phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm
>> in the USA but, believe it or not, you're not the only country in the
>> world.
> We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed it.
> When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just obscure
> English dialects.
That’s bullshit.
> Yeah, it sucks. What's an average European vs American monthly cost for
> cell service?
$10 a month here with unlimited calls, SMSs
and MMSs to anywhere in this country.
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| From | Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-15 09:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9448dh-sk34.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> |
| In reply to | #73652 |
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote: > > We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed it. > > > When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just obscure > > English dialects. > > That’s bullshit. > Rod, I think it was meant to be a joke! :-) -- Chris Green ·
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| From | The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-15 18:32 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <rttj83$gsi$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73656 |
On 01/15/2021 01:33 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed it.
>>
>> > When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just obscure
>> > English dialects.
>>
>> That’s bullshit.
>>
> Rod, I think it was meant to be a joke! :-)
Are you calling me a comedian? That was TRUE, dammit. I personally
speak two obscure dialects in addition to proper English.
Oh. Rod Speed. Never mind.
--
Cheers, Bev
"You should be glad that bridge fell down -- I was planning
to build thirteen more to the same design."
-- Attributed to I.K. Brunel, addressing the
Directors of the Great Western Railway
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| From | Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-16 09:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <brpadh-0e8a.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> |
| In reply to | #73670 |
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: > On 01/15/2021 01:33 AM, Chris Green wrote: > > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed it. > >> > >> > When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just obscure > >> > English dialects. > >> > >> That’s bullshit. > >> > > Rod, I think it was meant to be a joke! :-) > > Are you calling me a comedian? That was TRUE, dammit. I personally > speak two obscure dialects in addition to proper English. > > Oh. Rod Speed. Never mind. > Quite! :-) -- Chris Green ·
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| From | Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-15 09:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i248dh-sk34.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu> |
| In reply to | #73649 |
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 01/14/2021 12:16 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> > Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> >> "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote
> >>
> >> | > I have a prepaid phone where each SMS is 30 cents, last time I looked.
> >> | >
> >> | > By the way, Google was trying to push another text messaging system,
> >> | > universal, improving over SMS, and free. But they need providers to
> >> | > provide. I forgot the name.
> >> |
> >> | 30 cents for an SMS! You are being robbed.
> >> |
> >>
> >> He's in Spain. I'm guessing that's why WA is so
> >> big in Europe. I have a Tracphone and the one time
> >> I received a text I think it cost me $4 worth of
> >> minutes. :) But interestingly, I recently had to switch
> >> from a fliphone to an Android slab and for some
> >> reason Tracphone matched my accumulated 3,000
> >> prepaid minutes with 3,000 texts and 3,000 MB
> >> of data. It keeps getting cheaper all the time.
> >>
> > The whole idea that it could cost *anything* to receive a message or a
> > phone call is totally foreign to anyone in Europe. It may be the norm
> > in the USA but, believe it or not, you're not the only country in the
> > world.
>
> We heard something like that a while back but we never really believed
> it. When we study "foreign languages" we know they're really just
> obscure English dialects.
>
:-)
> Yeah, it sucks. What's an average European vs American monthly cost for
> cell service?
>
What's a 'cell service' - we call them mobiles! :-)
Anything from almost nothing to a horrendous (to me anyway) amount.
Many (most?) contracts here include a handset so comparisons aren't
easy.
I pay very little because I use a pay-as-you-go SIM only contract, I
rarely spend more than £10 to £20 per year. Calls cost 3p/min, texts
cost 2p, data costs 1p/Mb.
Heavier users on monthly contracts will get much cheaper per call rates.
--
Chris Green
·
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