Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.mobile.android > #73523 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-01-13 10:54 -0800 |
| Last post | 2021-01-20 07:19 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 114 — 16 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.mobile.android
OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 10:54 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-13 11:09 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 12:08 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-13 15:19 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 13:40 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 15:43 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-14 10:59 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 22:58 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 15:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 07:33 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 21:27 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 23:28 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 23:07 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 15:58 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-15 09:34 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 15:30 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-15 18:13 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:47 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-16 04:17 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 09:14 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-17 02:31 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 22:08 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-18 23:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:22 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-19 13:50 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 10:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-19 12:34 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-19 22:35 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 15:55 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 01:42 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 19:54 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 21:02 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-20 08:38 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 10:01 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-20 12:37 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 23:14 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-20 23:34 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 14:56 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:59 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 22:09 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 14:06 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 19:35 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 12:45 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 09:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:21 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 19:59 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 19:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:31 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-21 22:22 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:16 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:42 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 15:16 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:46 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:25 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 19:49 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 21:01 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 22:47 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 05:16 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:55 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 20:05 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 14:49 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 06:46 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 10:09 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 13:04 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Boris <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-22 02:02 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 09:30 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:36 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 12:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:07 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:41 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 15:03 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2021-01-19 16:02 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 20:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 20:43 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-20 09:08 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 23:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 09:08 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-20 07:42 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 08:25 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 09:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 08:16 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 00:37 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-20 09:03 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 09:53 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 20:20 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 08:00 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 05:31 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 07:14 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 12:28 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 11:18 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 22:15 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 17:50 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:43 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 08:43 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:27 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 12:46 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 12:50 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:29 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication - Wine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:36 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:42 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 16:05 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-23 09:11 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 10:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-23 17:23 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-23 09:07 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-23 13:42 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-22 14:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-23 05:02 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-23 08:47 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-23 00:20 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 12:29 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 07:19 -0500
Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next page →
| From | micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 08:25 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nabg0gp6f1lr4qlrhm9nhhis4gij4csnoo@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #73577 |
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:27:59 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >On 01/13/2021 04:33 PM, John B. wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:56:10 -0800, The Real Bev >> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>On 01/13/2021 01:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> On 13/01/2021 21.08, The Real Bev wrote: >>>>> I'm pissed that I can't just get a regular key that will open the door >>>>> and start the engine. Why do I have to spend big bucks for a >>>>> convenience that I've managed to do without for 60 years? >>>> >>>> The idea is that there is some interaction between the car and the >>>> transponder inside the metal key. Both have to be present to start the >>>> car. At least that is what the manufacturer claims. >>> >>>Still, it ought to be an option. Before I had it I thought it was >>>stupid to press a button on your key to open the door, but I got used to >>>it pretty quickly. Still, I never had a car stolen in 60 years of >>>driving even when I left it completely unlocked with a window open. >>>OTOH, no sane car thief would have bothered... >> >> :-) I once locked the keys in my old pickup truck, parked on a main >> street in a little town in S. Thailand. I was standing there looking a >> bit forlorn I guess, and a Thai guy came down the street and saw me. >> He asked me if I had locked my keys in the car and when I said yes he >> went in a hardware store and borrowed a steel ruler and came back and >> tripped the door lock. I thanked him profusely and drove away. And the >> thought entered my mind... errr, what good are door locks :-) > >Maybe 10 years ago I watched the fire department guy try to open a >woman's car that way -- she'd locked her keys and her kid inside. The >woman said it would be OK to break the window, but it wasn't a real >emergency (screaming 2-YO is normal, not a life-threatening situation) >and he didn't want to do that -- it took him at least 15 minutes to >push something like the ruler over the top of the window (no idea why he >had to do that rather than the easy way) but he eventually got it open. > >When I locked my keys inside my office one of the guys got the door open >with a plastic coffee-can lid ???? I understand loiding a lock, with a celluloid sheet**, but plastic coffe can lids have a ridge that keeps them from sliding in **Like even a credit card, but better if bigger and more flexible and does't work well with jimmy-proof locks, the ones that have more than one bolt springing back and forth. (several different designs for that.) >and considerable violence. He said >everybody in New York (or maybe Chicago) knew how to do that. I lived in both those towns. One time a group of us were on I guess a historical tour and we were in downtown Cambridge Md. and the driver locked the keys in his car. In that town, the police will unlock the car for you for free. IIRC he didn't even check if the guy owned it, but there were 4 of us standing there, didn't seem like car thieves. But don't let someone do this to the driver's door. He unlocked it but disconnected the rod inside, so the door lock or even the latch didn't work right. Better to have done this to the passenger door or a rear seat door. When we got back at the end of the day, I took the door apart for him and fixed it.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 09:37 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ru9po7$cr7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73825 |
On 01/20/2021 05:25 AM, micky wrote: > In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:27:59 -0800, The Real Bev > <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >>When I locked my keys inside my office one of the guys got the door open >>with a plastic coffee-can lid > > ???? I understand loiding a lock, with a celluloid sheet**, but > plastic coffe can lids have a ridge that keeps them from sliding in > > **Like even a credit card, but better if bigger and more flexible and > does't work well with jimmy-proof locks, the ones that have more than > one bolt springing back and forth. (several different designs for that.) This one opened inward and had a protective strip of molding (or something) keeping you from shoving a stiff card in and pushing the thing away from the hole. He cut a chord off the lid, jammed it into the space between the jamb and the door and heaved the door back and forth while shoving the lid further into the space between. It needed the flexibility of the plastic lid rather than the rigidity of the credit card. >>and considerable violence. He said >>everybody in New York (or maybe Chicago) knew how to do that. -- Cheers, Bev My computer doesn't have to be friendly; civil is entirely sufficient.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 08:16 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vfag0gd1hm54gh3tv98iuvve1bkt7sb49n@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #73567 |
In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 14 Jan 2021 07:33:03 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote: >On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:56:10 -0800, The Real Bev ><bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: > >>On 01/13/2021 01:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 13/01/2021 21.08, The Real Bev wrote: >>>> I'm pissed that I can't just get a regular key that will open the door >>>> and start the engine. Why do I have to spend big bucks for a >>>> convenience that I've managed to do without for 60 years? >>> >>> The idea is that there is some interaction between the car and the >>> transponder inside the metal key. Both have to be present to start the >>> car. At least that is what the manufacturer claims. >> >>Still, it ought to be an option. Before I had it I thought it was >>stupid to press a button on your key to open the door, but I got used to >>it pretty quickly. Still, I never had a car stolen in 60 years of >>driving even when I left it completely unlocked with a window open. >>OTOH, no sane car thief would have bothered... > > :-) I once locked the keys in my old pickup truck, parked on a main >street in a little town in S. Thailand. I was standing there looking a >bit forlorn I guess, and a Thai guy came down the street and saw me. >He asked me if I had locked my keys in the car and when I said yes he >went in a hardware store and borrowed a steel ruler and came back and >tripped the door lock. I thanked him profusely and drove away. And the >thought entered my mind... errr, what good are door locks :-) I locked the keys in my car once. It had been a very wet snowy day the previous day and I was at a DIY carwash trying to get the sludge and salt off my car. I guess I'd locked the door on the way out. I went to the convenience store next door to get something and came back with a wire coathanger. I think I took the crummiest hanger he had and it was too thin, so I went back a second time and that time someone asked me what the problem was, and he went to the car with me. He was a locksmith and had all his tools with him. He used two of them, one to hold the the metal away from the window. Took about 3 minutes. Did I mention it was Christmas. He wouldn't take money. What are the odds of finding a free locksmith next door?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-14 00:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rto3or$8f6$1@news.mixmin.net> |
| In reply to | #73565 |
o <http://tinyurl.com/rec-autos-tech> o <https://tinyurl.com/alt-locksmithing>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 09:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ru9d7s$caf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73530 |
"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote | One of them said that they usually can, but not now because of COVID. | My jaw kind of dropped and I forgot to ask them the price. Another is | closed today. What kind of retail store closes on Wednesdays? The | third can only do GM and Ford. Not Toyota. Feh. | Toyota have always been sleazy that way. They've been charging mechanic markup on parts for decades. The standard operation in the US is 40% of parts cost is a markup scam. So you go to a mechanic, they need to buy a part for $60, they charge you $100 for parts. Toyota started doing that at their dealerships for parts sales. Maybe they all do now. I don't know. But I was surprised when I first ran into it. So I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota rigs their keys to be impossble for third parties to make. They seem to be the Apple of the car world. In general you should never buy anything you don't have to at a dealership. That's how they make their money -- by gouging customers who think they should go to the dealer for maintenance. Actually, even the chains seem to be doing that markup now. Some years ago I bought an exhaust pipe/mullfer combo at Auto Zone and then found it was about half that price at a local, private shop. Exact same item and brand. One of the nice things about pickup trucks is that you can avoid much of the overproduced crap if you want to. After two Toyota pickups, the last time I needed a new truck the Toyotas had gone way up in price, there were no longer Tacomas with a 6' bed... they'd gone suburban. Seating for 5 and room in back for a bag of grass seed. So I bought a Nissan. No electronic anything. Though I did spring for auto. trans. and AC this time. The key is normal. The window cranks are normal. The only notable idiocy is that there's a motor to switch between heater vent options. And wouldn't you know it: Half the time it doesn't work right! The one time I actually went to Toyota was for recall work. The trucks were rusting and they recalled them for an underbody treatment. They had brought in what looked like a dozen Brazillians to save money. I got the truck back with a broken tailpipe bolt to hold on an emissions sensor. They didn't tell me and I didn't find out for a couple of weeks. But I never had serious trouble with the vehicles from Toyota. I drove one of them 239K miles and only lost it because some kid on his phone plowed into it while it was parked on a sidestreet.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 09:53 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ru9qml$jkc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73826 |
On 01/20/2021 06:03 AM, Mayayana wrote: > "The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote > > | One of them said that they usually can, but not now because of COVID. > | My jaw kind of dropped and I forgot to ask them the price. Another is > | closed today. What kind of retail store closes on Wednesdays? The > | third can only do GM and Ford. Not Toyota. Feh. > | > > Toyota have always been sleazy that way. They've > been charging mechanic markup on parts for decades. > The standard operation in the US is 40% of parts cost > is a markup scam. So you go to a mechanic, they need > to buy a part for $60, they charge you $100 for parts. Last time I looked the rate for labor was $60/hour at a chain, probably Pep Boys. Probably more now, but I bet the kid who does the work doesn't get even 1/4 of that. I've never been unhappy with their work and my Sentra went to the wrecking yard with a LOT of lifetime parts (smog stuff not being any of them -- thanks, Kalifornia!). > Toyota started doing that at their dealerships for parts > sales. Maybe they all do now. I don't know. But I was > surprised when I first ran into it. So I wouldn't be surprised > if Toyota rigs their keys to be impossble for third parties > to make. They seem to be the Apple of the car world. Best price I found for a dupe: $150. > In general you should > never buy anything you don't have to at a dealership. Exactly. I really liked buying parts at the Honda dealership back when they only made motorcycles. Making cars ruined them. > One of the nice things about pickup trucks is that you > can avoid much of the overproduced crap if you want to. People who drive pickups are more likely to want to keep them running forever at minimal cost because they use them for WORK! > ... Though I did spring for > auto. trans. and AC this time. The key is normal. The > window cranks are normal. The only notable idiocy is that > there's a motor to switch between heater vent options. > And wouldn't you know it: Half the time it doesn't work right! That's sick. What's wrong with LEVERS? For a while I wondered if it was still possible to buy a car perhaps designed for the Third World with everything mechanical. When I actually bought, I just bought a Corolla. We already have an elderly pickup. > The one time I actually went to Toyota was for recall > work. The trucks were rusting and they recalled them for > an underbody treatment. They had brought in what looked > like a dozen Brazillians to save money. I got the truck back > with a broken tailpipe bolt to hold on an emissions sensor. > They didn't tell me and I didn't find out for a couple of weeks. That's cheesy. I've had the airbags dealt with twice with no problems. I had them change the oil last time, and they said I needed a new battery (no) and new tires (no) and new front pads (yes, but my kid did them for me) and a replacement brake light (I did that myself). ALL SoCal tires have checks/cracks in the sidewalls; you replace a battery when the old one doesn't work any more, not by the calendar. Only 31K miles on the tires, no problem. > But I never had serious trouble with the vehicles from Toyota. > I drove one of them 239K miles and only lost it because some > kid on his phone plowed into it while it was parked on a sidestreet. I had a Datsun 210 that was absolutely pristine on the bottom (I'd never seen a car like that -- not even a DRIP of oil) when I bought it several years old. Underpowered, driven by a little old lady, but everything worked fine and I figured it would last forever. And then some stupid woman pulled out of a side street and bashed in the passenger side. -- Cheers, Bev My computer doesn't have to be friendly; civil is entirely sufficient.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-20 20:20 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ruavdo$nn3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73826 |
On 1/20/2021 6:03 AM, Mayayana wrote: > "The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote > > | One of them said that they usually can, but not now because of COVID. > | My jaw kind of dropped and I forgot to ask them the price. Another is > | closed today. What kind of retail store closes on Wednesdays? The > | third can only do GM and Ford. Not Toyota. Feh. > | > > Toyota have always been sleazy that way. They've > been charging mechanic markup on parts for decades. > The standard operation in the US is 40% of parts cost > is a markup scam. So you go to a mechanic, they need > to buy a part for $60, they charge you $100 for parts. > > Toyota started doing that at their dealerships for parts > sales. Maybe they all do now. I don't know. But I was > surprised when I first ran into it. So I wouldn't be surprised > if Toyota rigs their keys to be impossble for third parties > to make. They seem to be the Apple of the car world. > > In general you should > never buy anything you don't have to at a dealership. > That's how they make their money -- by gouging customers > who think they should go to the dealer for maintenance. My local Toyota dealer has a web site. Order parts there, then go pick them up at the dealer, and save big bucks. I got my Toyota (2004) keys and FOBs fron ebay for $15 or so for a set. I had the keys cut by a local fly-by-night guy with a key cutter, and programmed them in with the key on/off, door open shut thing. I believe I might have used the $25 Toyota scan program/cable thing to re-program it for the FOB's. I believe both processes required the previous keys to accomplish the task.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 08:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rubttm$9ng$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73913 |
"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote | > Toyota started doing that at their dealerships for parts | > sales. Maybe they all do now. I don't know. But I was | > surprised when I first ran into it. So I wouldn't be surprised | > if Toyota rigs their keys to be impossble for third parties | > to make. They seem to be the Apple of the car world. | > | > In general you should | > never buy anything you don't have to at a dealership. | > That's how they make their money -- by gouging customers | > who think they should go to the dealer for maintenance. | | My local Toyota dealer has a web site. Order parts there, then go pick | them up at the dealer, and save big bucks. | Save big bucks over what? Toyota are not competing with aftermarket. And they're going out of their way to gouge their own customers. They always have. Car companies have been spending millions to stop open access to car computers. They want to stop independent mechanics and do-it-yourselfers. So I don't believe they're trying to sell you parts at the cheapest price. They probably wouldn't sell parts at all if they could get away with it. (This past Nov in Massachusetts, car companies vastly outspent others with TV ads, trying to scare the public into thinking that women would be raped and murdered in their suburban driveways if it were possible for owners or repiar shops to access telemetry data via bluetooth. Crooks would walk by with a cellphone and just slurp their whole personal history, so they'd know where to attack the poor women.... Fortunately the car companies lost the vote. Though it was actually the wrong issue. The vote should have been on whether the car companies have any right to collect data in the first place.) This is part of a trend that's also been happening with computers and software. Computerization is allowing various kinds of companies to sell products but treat the deal like a lease, spying to profit from your personal data (Microsoft, Apple, Google, TV makers, car companies), claiming exclusive rights to that data, making repairs extremely difficult or impossible (Apple). Microsoft and Adobe now claim to be renting their software. Cars could go the same way. And if they do there will undoubtedly be people who believe they have a right because you don't own the software in the car. That's already been happening with John Deere tractors. (Search for "right to repair john deere" for that story.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 05:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <rubvmp$mlr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73920 |
On 1/21/2021 5:00 AM, Mayayana wrote: > "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote > > | > Toyota started doing that at their dealerships for parts > | > sales. Maybe they all do now. I don't know. But I was > | > surprised when I first ran into it. So I wouldn't be surprised > | > if Toyota rigs their keys to be impossble for third parties > | > to make. They seem to be the Apple of the car world. > | > > | > In general you should > | > never buy anything you don't have to at a dealership. > | > That's how they make their money -- by gouging customers > | > who think they should go to the dealer for maintenance. > | > | My local Toyota dealer has a web site. Order parts there, then go pick > | them up at the dealer, and save big bucks. > | > > Save big bucks over what? Toyota are not competing > with aftermarket. And they're going out of their way > to gouge their own customers. They always have. > > Car companies have been spending millions to stop > open access to car computers. They want to stop > independent mechanics and do-it-yourselfers. So I > don't believe they're trying to sell you parts at the > cheapest price. They probably wouldn't sell parts at > all if they could get away with it. > > (This past Nov in Massachusetts, car companies vastly > outspent others with TV ads, trying to scare the public > into thinking that women would be raped and murdered > in their suburban driveways if it were possible for owners > or repiar shops to access telemetry data via bluetooth. > Crooks would walk by with a cellphone and just slurp > their whole personal history, so they'd know where to > attack the poor women.... Fortunately the car companies > lost the vote. Though it was actually the wrong issue. > The vote should have been on whether the car companies > have any right to collect data in the first place.) > > This is part of a trend that's also been happening with > computers and software. Computerization is allowing > various kinds of companies to sell products but treat > the deal like a lease, spying to profit from your personal > data (Microsoft, Apple, Google, TV makers, car companies), > claiming exclusive rights to that data, making repairs > extremely difficult or impossible (Apple). Microsoft and > Adobe now claim to be renting their software. Cars could > go the same way. And if they do there will undoubtedly > be people who believe they have a right because you > don't own the software in the car. That's already been > happening with John Deere tractors. > (Search for "right to repair john deere" for that story.) > > When I needed tranny fluid, their price beat anything else I could find in stores or online. It was right around $5/qt for the Toyota fluid last summer, and no shipping charge since I picked it up. Good price on wipers too. I have not needed much else.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 07:14 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ruc5oq$4e9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73920 |
On 1/21/2021 5:00 AM, Mayayana wrote: <snip> > Save big bucks over what? Toyota are not competing > with aftermarket. And they're going out of their way > to gouge their own customers. They always have. There are some Toyota dealers that have parts departments that sell parts online a significant discount over MSRP. Ditto for Honda. I.e., I needed an O2 sensor for my 4Runner. The local dealer charges MSRP of $211, an on-line Toyota dealer charges $107. The after-market sensors don't last long, and are no cheaper than the discounted price of the OEM part. But you have to wait a few days for the genuine OEM part if you want it cheaper.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 12:28 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rucdl1$68t$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73928 |
"sms" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote | There are some Toyota dealers that have parts departments that sell | parts online a significant discount over MSRP. Ditto for Honda. | Interesting. I haven't seen that. When I needed exhaust line sensors and disc brake wheel sensors I looked online and found pretty much standard pricing. I don't remember ever coming across a Toyota dealer. I'll have to check that next time. When I needed discs and pads for my Nissan I ended up going to NAPA. It was difficult to compare prices and quality, so I just figured they would be dependable. So far I haven't needed OEM parts. | I.e., I needed an O2 sensor for my 4Runner. The local dealer charges | MSRP of $211, an on-line Toyota dealer charges $107. The after-market | sensors don't last long, and are no cheaper than the discounted price of | the OEM part. But you have to wait a few days for the genuine OEM part | if you want it cheaper.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 11:18 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ruck1k$r37$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73933 |
On 1/21/2021 9:28 AM, Mayayana wrote: > "sms" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote > > | There are some Toyota dealers that have parts departments that sell > | parts online a significant discount over MSRP. Ditto for Honda. > | > > Interesting. I haven't seen that. When I needed exhaust > line sensors and disc brake wheel sensors I looked online > and found pretty much standard pricing. I don't remember > ever coming across a Toyota dealer. I'll have to check that > next time. > > When I needed discs and pads for my Nissan I ended up > going to NAPA. It was difficult to compare prices and quality, > so I just figured they would be dependable. So far I haven't > needed OEM parts. When my brother-in-law had a shop he was really good about knowing when the after-market parts were okay and when they were not. For a few things he advised against using the after-market parts versus Toyota parts, oil filters, brake pads, and O2 sensors were included. For radiators, even though the Toyota ones were better, they were 5x the price so he would advise people to choose the after-market version. When 5W-20 oil first came out, I believe in 2003, it was only for some Hondas and Fords. It was not available in bulk. When he did oil changes on Hondas that specified 5W-20 he bought it from the Honda dealer in quart bottles. The parts guy laughed at him and said that the dealer's repair department just used bulk 5W-30 in the vehicles that were supposed to use 5W-20. But for an independent shop, using the wrong oil could open them up to problems should there be engine damage, even if not really caused by using the wrong oil.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 22:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <fh7pdh-5hk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73920 |
On 21/01/2021 14.00, Mayayana wrote: ... > (This past Nov in Massachusetts, car companies vastly > outspent others with TV ads, trying to scare the public > into thinking that women would be raped and murdered > in their suburban driveways if it were possible for owners > or repiar shops to access telemetry data via bluetooth. > Crooks would walk by with a cellphone and just slurp > their whole personal history, so they'd know where to > attack the poor women.... Fortunately the car companies > lost the vote. Though it was actually the wrong issue. > The vote should have been on whether the car companies > have any right to collect data in the first place.) > > This is part of a trend that's also been happening with > computers and software. Computerization is allowing > various kinds of companies to sell products but treat > the deal like a lease, spying to profit from your personal > data (Microsoft, Apple, Google, TV makers, car companies), > claiming exclusive rights to that data, making repairs > extremely difficult or impossible (Apple). Microsoft and > Adobe now claim to be renting their software. Just switch to Linux and be Free ;-p > Cars could > go the same way. And if they do there will undoubtedly > be people who believe they have a right because you > don't own the software in the car. That's already been > happening with John Deere tractors. > (Search for "right to repair john deere" for that story.) -- Cheers, Carlos.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-21 17:50 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <rud0g4$icq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73956 |
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote | Just switch to Linux and be Free ;-p | Ha ha. Yes. Free to wrestle with commandline. I hope I won't have to leave XP for awhile. But I actually just downloaded Suse Tumbleweed because I read that WINE 6 came out. I haven't looked at it for some years. Might be worth checking out. I saw the news about WINE 6 after having had my Win10 laptop switch services settings and go online for an update. It was well behaved for 3 months. Then I installed Office 365. Now it looks like it may override my settings every time O365 loads. This thing of seeing a screen telling me Windows is updating, don't shut down, is new to me. I can't use a system like that.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 04:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <97updh-28a.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #73976 |
On 21/01/2021 23.50, Mayayana wrote: > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote > > | Just switch to Linux and be Free ;-p > | > > Ha ha. Yes. Free to wrestle with commandline. Or enjoy the command line :-P You might run Linux daily without touching the command line, except for some repairs or maintenance. Hey, even Windows has a command line, but the Linux one is more powerful and useful. Yu can even install something I forgot the name, from the store, to run Linux commands in Windows. > I hope I won't have to leave XP for awhile. But > I actually just downloaded Suse Tumbleweed > because I read that WINE 6 came out. I haven't > looked at it for some years. Might be worth checking > out. Haven't tried it. > > I saw the news about WINE 6 after having had my > Win10 laptop switch services settings and go online > for an update. It was well behaved for 3 months. Then > I installed Office 365. Now it looks like it may override > my settings every time O365 loads. This thing of seeing > a screen telling me Windows is updating, don't shut > down, is new to me. I can't use a system like that. Yikes. -- Cheers, Carlos.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 08:43 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ruekq5$p7r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #73996 |
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote | > Ha ha. Yes. Free to wrestle with commandline. | | Or enjoy the command line :-P | Possibly. I plan to go for a walk today on crutches, which I don't need. I'll test your idea that idiotic tedium can be more fun. :) For years I would try Linux periodically. I set a goal. If I can set up what I want without editing files in /etc or using console windows, and if I could find an easy, intuitive firewall that blocks outgoing by process, then I might get more serious about Linux. A very low bar. I'm happy to have commandline. I just don't want it to be required. I figure that's common sense. I wouldn't buy a new car that needs a transmission. I wouldn't move into a house with ceilings that are falling down. I wouldn't use an OS that requires me to become an expert before I can do basic things easily. Linux hasn't even come close so far. I looked at the WINE site for versions and ended up coming across a long page of commandline instructions to install it on Mint. Huh?! What's the matter with these people? Are they all still 15 year old virgins? ... But, I haven't tried Linux lately, so... the bar is now even lower because Win10 is so bad. I've used Suse before so I decided to try that instead of Mint. They seem to have a smoother system for software install. But in recent years it seems that Linux has been missing the point in other ways. Increasingly there's a "civilian" wrapper that locks down the system and works great for elderly people who want to check their email. But the in-between -- the approach that used to be done so well on Windows -- is missing. That was the way that MS provided options for people at every level of expertise... before they decided to lock customers out of the product with Win10. In Linux there's an attitude that if you're not fluent in C++ and can't recite the 5 greatest achievements of Richard Stallman then you shouldn't be able to change system settings. The elephant in the room is that the vast majority of pimple-faced Linux nuts don't want it to be usable. They like to imagine themselves like wizards, using arcane incantations that no one else can understand. It's like the representation of advanced computing in TV shows. They always show something like a green screen with yellow text showing scarps of DOS or C++ to indicate "incredibly advanced computer stuff that you could never hope to understand". It was similar recently setting up a raspberry pi. It works pretty well. But I had to go online to figure out some basics. Then I had to write down the incantations needed and run them. That's a serious design flaw, when I need to search through online forums to find out how to use the product... and have to be tech-savvy to carry it out. | You might run Linux daily without touching the command line, except for | some repairs or maintenance. | | Hey, even Windows has a command line Yes, but I almost never have to use it. I used it recently on an old XP computer to swap out hal.dll for the multi-core-cpu version of hal.dll. I used to use it for youtube-dl before I wrote a wrapper for that. There's a reason for GUI. It's much, much easier. If I have to do anything in console more than once, that's a design problem. There should be a button or slider or radio buttons or checkbox somewhere to perform that action. | Yu can even install something I forgot the name, from the | store, to run Linux commands in Windows. | Windows subsystem for Linux? Imagine my excitement. Now I can run commands from 1980 in 2 different dialects. :) They did a similar thing with PowerShell. What I heard was that they're trying to cater to Linux/Unix server admins, in order to make it easy for them to switch to Windows. It's a horrendous system, which I've so far had no use for. Just as well. A lot of malware has been written for PS and it's optional on XP. So there's no reason to install it. Windows scripting was created in the 90s to replace commandline. They're only bringing it back so that Linux geeks can feel at home. It's like McDonald's adding a hunting range so that you can feel like a caveman by hunting down your hamburger.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 07:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <i705ncFg7b1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #74017 |
On 1/22/2021 6:43 AM, Mayayana wrote: > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote > > | > Ha ha. Yes. Free to wrestle with commandline. > | > | Or enjoy the command line :-P > | > > Possibly. I plan to go for a walk today on crutches, > which I don't need. I'll test your idea that idiotic tedium > can be more fun. :) > > For years I would try Linux periodically. I set a goal. > If I can set up what I want without editing files in /etc > or using console windows, and if I could find an easy, > intuitive firewall that blocks outgoing by process, then > I might get more serious about Linux. A very low bar. I'm > happy to have commandline. I just don't want it to be > required. > > I figure that's common sense. I wouldn't buy a new > car that needs a transmission. I wouldn't move into a > house with ceilings that are falling down. I wouldn't > use an OS that requires me to become an expert > before I can do basic things easily. Linux hasn't even > come close so far. I looked at the WINE site for versions > and ended up coming across a long page of commandline > instructions to install it on Mint. Huh?! What's the matter > with these people? Are they all still 15 year old virgins? > > ... But, I haven't tried Linux lately, so... the bar is now > even lower because Win10 is so bad. > > I've used Suse before so I decided to try that instead of Mint. > They seem to have a smoother system for software install. > But in recent years it seems that Linux has been missing the > point in other ways. Increasingly there's a "civilian" wrapper > that locks down the system and works great for elderly > people who want to check their email. But the in-between -- > the approach that used to be done so well on Windows -- > is missing. That was the way that MS provided options for > people at every level of expertise... before they decided to > lock customers out of the product with Win10. > > In Linux there's an attitude that if you're not fluent in > C++ and can't recite the 5 greatest achievements of > Richard Stallman then you shouldn't be able to change > system settings. The elephant in the room is that the vast > majority of pimple-faced Linux nuts don't want it to be > usable. They like to imagine themselves like wizards, using > arcane incantations that no one else can understand. It's > like the representation of advanced computing in TV shows. > They always show something like a green screen with yellow > text showing scarps of DOS or C++ to indicate "incredibly > advanced computer stuff that you could never hope to > understand". > > It was similar recently setting up a raspberry pi. It > works pretty well. But I had to go online to figure out > some basics. Then I had to write down the incantations > needed and run them. That's a serious design flaw, when > I need to search through online forums to find out how > to use the product... and have to be tech-savvy to carry > it out. > > | You might run Linux daily without touching the command line, except for > | some repairs or maintenance. > | > | Hey, even Windows has a command line > > Yes, but I almost never have to use it. I used it > recently on an old XP computer to swap out hal.dll > for the multi-core-cpu version of hal.dll. I used to > use it for youtube-dl before I wrote a wrapper for > that. There's a reason for GUI. It's much, much > easier. If I have to do anything in console more > than once, that's a design problem. There should > be a button or slider or radio buttons or checkbox > somewhere to perform that action. I've never used, or even tried Linux or Apple's operating system, or any other operating system except for Android. (and IBM's mainframe operating systems, none of which I've used for almost 30 years now). Which is the best operating system for PCs? I don't know and I don't care. Windows is fine for me. I'm not the world's biggest Windows expert, but I know it very well, and I'm not about to toss away the time and trouble I've spent learning it, and start all over again to learn something new. -- Ken
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 12:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ruf32c$4l8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #74018 |
"Ken Blake" <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote | I'm not the world's biggest Windows | expert, but I know it very well, and I'm not about to toss away the time | and trouble I've spent learning it, and start all over again to learn | something new. | I feel the same way. I have loads of custom programs and scripts I use. I don't want to move. But I keep it in mind, especially since Win10. I just don't want a system where I'm a guest, with no control over spying and forced updates. WINE is interesting in that respect. I explored it a bit some years ago. WINE programmers were looking for Windows programmers to test their software. That didn't work out so well. Their operation was something I can only describe as paramilitary hierarchy. They were unwilling to share docs or explanations. The Win32 functions were spread around willy nilly, so you couldn't check to see whether a particular function was supported. For instance the basic function CreateFile is in kernel32.dll. In WINE? It might be anywhere. So is it supported? Who knows. The big cheese refused to give me any info and the docs were nearly non-existent. He refused to cooperate by sharing information that might help with translating functions. My job was simply to test my software and report bugs, then be responsible for "herding" the bug while college interns tried to fix it. Windows developers were considered to be non-tech people. The WINE plan was to support whatever Windows people expected to work, rather than cooperating. It's a shame. They could have had a parallel API in place many years ago. Instead they limp along, fixing one bug at a time, and mostly concentrating on the games that the WINE "team" wants to play on Linux. On the bright side, it is a real API. I installed Windows Script Host under WINE and was able to write a perfectly functional VBScript that enumerated files. It's very much running in Linux. The down side was that no one program seemed to entirely work. But I found that sticking to the Win32 API was a very good bet for support under WINE. So I'm hopeful that eventually I might be able to write Linux software... in my favoirite VB6... in VS6... on Linux... Talk about not wanting to change. :)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 12:50 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ruf3a1$6la$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #74029 |
I actually started looking into Linux many years ago. I first discovered Windows and fell in love with tinkering. Then I got adventurous. I tried Linux. Be. I set both up as much as I could. But then I was faced with an unexpected problem: There was no software! So I never really have seriously used anything but Windows, despite exploring Linux quite a bit.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-22 23:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <m70sdh-vua.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #74031 |
On 22/01/2021 18.50, Mayayana wrote: > I actually started looking into Linux many years ago. I first > discovered Windows and fell in love with tinkering. Then I got > adventurous. I tried Linux. Be. I set both up as much as I could. > But then I was faced with an unexpected problem: There was > no software! So I never really have seriously used anything > but Windows, despite exploring Linux quite a bit. There is a lot of software now. The issue is rather whether your particular need is covered or not. Ideally, you would search what tools to do your job, and then select the operating system. There are areas where certainly there is much more software in Windows, and some where not, or many others where you have the choice. But, there are differences, sometimes very important. -- Cheers, Carlos.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 5 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.mobile.android
csiph-web