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DEC and The Americans

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  DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-25 17:26 +0300
    Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 10:58 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-25 11:47 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2016-01-25 16:47 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-25 17:41 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2016-01-25 19:25 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-01-25 16:15 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-25 13:17 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-01-26 08:20 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-26 11:32 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:23 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2016-01-26 19:08 +0200
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:20 -0600
            Re: DEC and The Americans scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2016-01-27 19:40 +0000
          Re: DEC and The Americans Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> - 2016-01-27 22:40 -0800
        Re: DEC and The Americans Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> - 2016-01-26 21:16 +0200
          Re: DEC and The Americans "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-28 10:07 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:48 +1100
      Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-26 13:56 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-26 17:43 -0600
          Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
            Re: DEC and The Americans pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-02-03 00:36 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-03 14:25 +0000
    Re: DEC and The Americans Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2016-01-25 17:27 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-25 11:18 -0800
    Re: DEC and The Americans "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-26 05:40 +1100
    Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 19:12 -0500
      Re: DEC and The Americans RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-01-26 14:22 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-26 16:20 +0100
          Re: DEC and The Americans Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-26 11:36 -0500
          Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:37 -0500
            Re: DEC and The Americans Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2016-01-27 03:58 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-27 06:16 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-27 15:42 +0000
              Re: DEC and The Americans Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-27 18:14 +0000
        Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 18:34 -0500
    Re: DEC and The Americans bleep@compy.0-0 (Colonel Bleep) - 2016-01-30 07:07 +0000
      Re: DEC and The Americans "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-30 09:43 -0500
        Re: DEC and The Americans Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2016-01-30 09:02 -0800
      Re: DEC and The Americans Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> - 2016-01-30 20:36 +0000

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#10116 — DEC and The Americans

Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If you're 
not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 
1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing 
off.

Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian 
embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features 
a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's 
desks.

At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the 
terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the 
desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: 
the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond 
with the show.

That got me thinking about how likely it would be for a diplomatic 
mission to invest in DEC terminals (and presumably a mini somewhere in 
the basement to which you could connect) to do business.  What would 
you do with them?  Word processing, maybe database work, but would they 
have invested in custom software for something or other - processing 
visas or equivalent?  Then I thought, the Soviets had their own 
hardware around that time - I'd think they'd have chosen something 
native to the USSR rather than buying American hardware (which would 
run the [very real] risk of backdoors).  In 1982 would VT100s still 
have been anchored in academia, science and research, or would they 
have already made the jump to other sectors - such as diplomacy and 
bureaucracy?

Final thought (mostly because I just finished Bruce Schneier's _Data 
and Goliath_ - a highly recommended read that will show you in no 
uncertain terms just how deeply the modern surveillance state goes[3]): 
 I'm wondering if there isn't room for a new age of minicomputers.  If 
surveillance scares customers out of the cloud, there's room again for 
something serious in the workplace.  Other than software-as-a-service, 
why run the risk of offloading all your data to some cloud provider 
(read Schneier's book!) when you can keep it in house.  It might look 
different, say thin clients and VMWare serving centralized desktops and 
a couple racks of storage servers etc., but is the move to the cloud so 
inevitable?  I kind of like the idea of everyone going back to a 
terminal on their desk and some behemoth of a machine in the basement, 
quietly keeping everything in-house.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Americans_(2013_TV_series)
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100
[3] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22253747-data-and-goliath

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#10118

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote:

> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If you're not, I 
> can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982 Washington 
> DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off.
>
> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian embassy to 
> the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of 
> prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks.
>
> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the terminals 
> look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of the 
> FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 reigned 
> from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show.
>
But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer 
stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying 
outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was 
often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.

   Michael

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#10119

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:

> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote:
>
>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If
>> you're not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in
>> about 1982 Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI
>> are facing off.
>>
>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian
>> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC)
>> features a lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing
>> everyone's desks.
>>
>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the
>> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on
>> the desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be
>> accurate: the VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would
>> correspond with the show.
>>
> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some
> computer stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if
> not, buying outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I
> thought was often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important
> things.

Don't need a DEC computer to find a VT100 useful.

My first exposure to Unix was at Bell Labs where they used all kinds
of terminals.  Quite an eye opener after only being familiar with
the IBM 2260 and IBM 3270.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#10120

>But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer 
>stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying 
>outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was 
>often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.

At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
the U.S.

So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
could well have similar looking home made ones.

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#10123

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
>>But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer 
>>stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying 
>>outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was 
>>often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>
> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
> the U.S.
>
> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>

The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last
year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I
passed...

There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling
these, but he *won't* ship to the US.

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

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#10128

On 25/01/2016 17:41, Stan Barr wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer
>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>
>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>> the U.S.
>>
>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>
>
> The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last
> year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I
> passed...
>
> There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling
> these, but he *won't* ship to the US.
>

Well America wouldn't ship to the USSR when they wanted them either.

Karma payback!

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#10129

On 25/01/2016 12:41 PM, Stan Barr wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer
>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>
>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>> the U.S.
>>
>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>
>
> The Soviets made a number of DEC clones, there was one on eBay last
> year, but everything, including the RSX clone, was in Russian so I
> passed...
>
> There's a guy in the Ukraine (I think) who specializes in selling
> these, but he *won't* ship to the US.
>

I spent a day at the the University of Havana in the mid 70's. There was 
a hand wired running PDP 8 there. It wasn't a classical copy but a 
re-implementation of the PDP8 ISA with 7400 series logic parts or clone 
parts. It ran a 3 or 4 line Basic program I typed in during the tour I 
had of the lab it was in.

w..

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#10124

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote:

>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer
>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>
> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
> the U.S.
>
> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>
>
Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close 
to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a 
few, basically copies of US computers.  But they also had 
copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs
rather than the single IC in the US.  SO that was an indication that they 
were lagging in what they could produce.

   Michael

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#10131

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote:
>
>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer
>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>
>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>> the U.S.
>>
>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>
>>
> Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close 
> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a 
> few, basically copies of US computers.  But they also had 
> copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs
> rather than the single IC in the US.  SO that was an indication that they 
> were lagging in what they could produce.
>
>    Michael
>

The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit
like a large Apple ][.  Probably a bit too expensive new for any
average Soviet worker!  

Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKNC

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

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#10132

On 2016-01-26, Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote:
>>
>>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer
>>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>>
>>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>>> the U.S.
>>>
>>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close 
>> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a 
>> few, basically copies of US computers.  But they also had 
>> copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs
>> rather than the single IC in the US.  SO that was an indication that they 
>> were lagging in what they could produce.
>>
>>    Michael
>>
>
> The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit
> like a large Apple ][.  Probably a bit too expensive new for any
> average Soviet worker!  
>
> Just found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKNC
>

From my memories of the time, Bulgaria was selected as the country
to lead the  warsaw pact into the computer age, and streams started
in the educational system there to do that. Only real result was virus
creation, and some part of tetris. 

Accounts of the Hungarian Revolution was that people broke into
the secret police headquarters, while the secret police were working
on which side to go, and were amazed at how up-to-date the equipment
 was.


-- 
greymaus
 .
  .
...

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#10142

"Stan Barr" <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote in message 
news:slrnnaeb2s.8je.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 13:17:26 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote:
>>
>>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some 
>>>> computer
>>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, 
>>>> buying
>>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>>
>>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>>> the U.S.
>>>
>>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably 
>> close
>> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a
>> few, basically copies of US computers.  But they also had
>> copies of US microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs
>> rather than the single IC in the US.  SO that was an indication that they
>> were lagging in what they could produce.
>>
>>    Michael
>>
>
> The USSR PDP-11 clone on eBay a while back was a one-piece desktop unit
> like a large Apple ][.  Probably a bit too expensive new for any
> average Soviet worker!
>

ISTM that the "average Soviet worker" would *not* be allowed to own a 
computer.  Even back in the 80s, one could get five years hard labor in 
prison... for owning an unlicensed copy machine.

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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#10137

with <evydnbjwX7ZJHDvLnZ2dnUU7-RWdnZ2d@giganews.com> Jon Elson wrote:

*SKIP*
> Yes, the "Agat" which means apple in Russian, but it was not available for 
> home use.  I think the one in the article was used to compute anaethetic 
> doses for surgery.

"Агат" means "agate" (as in mineralogy) and, indeed, there's *sort* of
apples.  Unfortunately, I've never touched one or even acquired a manual
for such.  Thus I can't say if there's any connection with apples.

*CUT*

-- 
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

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#10141

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message 
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1601251315180.9697@darkstar.example.org...
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, John Levine wrote:
>
>>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some 
>>> computer
>>> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
>>> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
>>> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>>
>> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
>> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
>> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
>> the U.S.
>>
>> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
>> could well have similar looking home made ones.
>>
>>
> Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close 
> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a 
> few, basically copies of US computers.  But they also had copies of US 
> microprocessors, but at least one needed two or three ICs
> rather than the single IC in the US.  SO that was an indication that they 
> were lagging in what they could produce.
>

The Soviets reached a point in the development of their digital 
electronics... where they decided it was more effective to *steal* Western 
technology than to design their own. I remember a 60 Minutes segment many 
years ago; they showed a microscopic picture of a Russian-built 1 k memory 
chip.  The micrograph of the chip still had the Intel logo etched into it.

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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#10156

In article <n88uq5$l31$1@dont-email.me>,
Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>The Soviets reached a point in the development of their digital 
>electronics... where they decided it was more effective to *steal* Western 
>technology than to design their own. I remember a 60 Minutes segment many 
>years ago; they showed a microscopic picture of a Russian-built 1 k memory 
>chip.  The micrograph of the chip still had the Intel logo etched into it.

Sounds like the Tu-4, an unauthorized copy of the B-29 in which it's been
said they went so far as to copy the "Boeing" script on the rudder pedals.

  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/           Top-posting!
 \_^_/                              >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#10160

Michael Black wrote:
> Yes.  There was an article in Byte at some point (so it was probably close 
> to the end of the USSR) about their "home" computers, and they showed a 
> few, basically copies of US computers.

You may be thinking of
<URL:http://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-11/1984_11_BYTE_09-12_New_Chips#page/n135/mode/2up>

-- 
Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> | San Francisco

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#10147

with <n85jju$15lh$1@miucha.iecc.com> John Levine wrote:

>>But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some
>>computer stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if
>>not, buying outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I
>>thought was often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important
>>things.
>
> At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
> made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
> S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
> the U.S.

BESM was true home-made (with hilarity):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BESM .
While clone of S360 was ESEVM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_EVM .

> So it's unlikely the Soviets would have real DEC machines, but they
> could well have similar looking home made ones.

Yes, watch Jackson-Vanik at work.  Apparently, history isn't going to
repeat itself this time.

-- 
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

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#10171

In alt.folklore.computers Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:
> with <n85jju$15lh$1@miucha.iecc.com> John Levine wrote:

> > At computer conferences in the 1970s I saw a clone of a DEC computer
> > made in Hungary, and I gather the BESM series in Russia was a clone of
> > S/360 running software borrowed from a real S/360 in their embassy in
> > the U.S.

> BESM was true home-made (with hilarity):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BESM .
> While clone of S360 was ESEVM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_EVM .

In 1978 we hired a recent refugee from Russia at a PPOE. He arrived on
the job with a thick computer reference book for a research computer
He carried it out in his luggage. The book covered the whole gamut from
digital circuitry, architecture, hw/sw interfaces, macro programming,
software system design, and on to high-level languages.

If you were restricted to just one S/360 reference, that would be
the one to own.

-- 
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
  - Lewis Carroll

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#10126

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message 
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1601251056460.9361@darkstar.example.org...
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote:
>
>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If you're 
>> not, I can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982 
>> Washington DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off.
>>
>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian 
>> embassy to the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a 
>> lot of prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks.
>>
>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the 
>> terminals look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the 
>> desks of the FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the 
>> VT100 reigned from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the 
>> show.
>>
> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?  I thought at least some computer 
> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying 
> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was 
> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.

Its far from clear that they would have thought anything else
was more important. Certainly Putin himself was involved in
that sort of stuff a bit later than that 85-90, in embassies
outside the USSR, in his case mostly in Germany.

Dunno about access to DEC minis tho. The program may
well have used those instead of the russian clones of them
just because there aren't any clones available to use to even
do a decent mockup of those, so used real VT100s instead. 

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#10133

Michael Black wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote:
>
>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If you're not,
I
>> can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982
Washington
>> DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off.
>>
>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian embassy
to
>> the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of
>> prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks.
>>
>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the
terminals
>> look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of the
>> FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 reigned
>> from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show.
>>
> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?

No.  The Soviets couldn't buy any US modern computers.  They had to use
subterfuege to get modern gear for reverse engineering.

> I thought at least some computer
> stuff was restricted in where it could be sold.  And even if not, buying
> outside of the USSR meant needing "hard currency", which I thought was
> often lacking.  They had to spend it on the important things.
>
>    Michael

/BAH

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#10146

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM00052A3CF4346EF5@aca46c41.ipt.aol.com...
> Michael Black wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, RS Wood wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone here familiar with that TV series, The Americans?[1]  If you're 
>>> not,
> I
>>> can recommend it - it's pretty well done drama, set in about 1982
> Washington
>>> DC, where undercover KGB agents and the FBI are facing off.
>>>
>>> Thought I'd mention it because every scene shot within the Russian 
>>> embassy
> to
>>> the USA (ie, the USSR's building in Washington DC) features a lot of
>>> prominent shots of DEC VT100 terminals gracing everyone's desks.
>>>
>>> At first I thought, typical Hollywood - they chose DEC because the
> terminals
>>> look a bit more dated than the more modern PCs sitting on the desks of 
>>> the
>>> FBI, but poking around a bit [2], it might be accurate: the VT100 
>>> reigned
>>> from about 1978 to 1982, so that would correspond with the show.
>>>
>> But could the Soviets buy DEC computers?
>

One way the Soviets bought modern computers is to have a third-party in some 
other country, like Germany or France, to buy the U.S. computer.  The 
computer would be transferred to the USSR in secret.  So the Soviets could 
*not* legally buy advanced US computers, but they could buy them through 
back-alley deals.

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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