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Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls

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  Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-20 13:20 +0000
    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-03-20 13:22 -0600
      Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-20 20:17 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-20 20:23 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls john <nospam@no.net> - 2014-03-20 13:32 -0800
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-20 23:20 +0000
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-03-21 01:08 +0100
            Usenet clients: knode, other RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 09:03 +0000
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-03-21 07:58 -0500
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-21 15:26 +0100
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-21 18:03 +0000
                  20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 20:52 +0000
                    Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-22 02:02 +0100
                      Re: 20 Years of September Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2014-03-29 16:47 +0200
                    Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-23 15:07 +0000
                      Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-23 16:10 +0000
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-21 21:47 +0000
                    Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-22 10:46 +0100
                      Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-22 12:36 +0000
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other "G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+usenet@w6yx.stanford.edu> - 2014-03-21 16:15 +0000
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other john <nospam@no.net> - 2014-03-25 11:34 -0800
              Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-04 13:36 +0000
                Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-04 14:03 +0000
                  Re: Usenet clients: knode, other RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-04-04 15:14 +0000
                    Re: Usenet clients: knode, other Shehu Dikko <unreachable@destination.invalid> - 2014-04-05 10:25 +0000
            Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Chris Elvidge <chris@raspberrypi.mshome.net> - 2014-03-21 09:41 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-21 10:04 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-21 11:38 +0100
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-21 15:23 +0000
              Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-21 18:01 +0000
                Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2014-03-21 14:26 -0700
                  Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-22 03:06 +0000
                  Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-22 12:34 +0000
                    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls "John" <j@j.j> - 2014-03-25 08:54 -0700
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-02 03:21 +0000
      Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-20 20:22 +0000
        Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-20 22:50 +0000
          Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-21 09:22 +0000
    Re: Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 19:50 +0000

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#1820 — Full Disclosure mailing list buried by trolls

From the «Usenet can sympathize» department:
Title: The full-disclosure mailing list shuts down
Author:
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 10:14:00 -0400
Link: http://lwn.net/Articles/591045/rss

John Cartwright, the administrator of the venerable full-disclosure
security-oriented mailing list, has announced that it is shutting down. "The
list has had its fair share of trolling, flooding, furry porn, fake exploits
and DoS attacks over the years, but none of those things really affected the
integrity of the list itself. However, taking a virtual hatchet to the list
archives on the whim of an individual just doesn't feel right. That 'one of
our own' would undermine the efforts of the last 12 years is really the straw
that broke the camel's back."

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#1827

There's a lot of speculation on /. about what prompted this. 

The original thread that sparked this is here: 
<http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Mar/123> 

There  is a summary on reddit here : 
<http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/20sxd2/full_disclosure_mailing_list_closes/cg6fbgk> 

which has this summary 

>     Nicholas Lemonias posts the file upload bug disclosure and info about his exchange 
> with Google. 
>     Initial responses question whether it's really a security issue and probe for 
> more info. 
>     Lemonias responds, stating that he hasn't found a way to get the uploaded files 
> back. 
>     More people respond saying it's not a bug. 
>     Lemonias gets defensive. 
>     More people wade into the discussion, mainly on the dissenting side. 
>     Lemonias tries to justify his position by making claims about his education 
> and the companies he works for. 
>     People don't buy it, some trolling ensues. 
>     Couple of unknowns appear in support of Lemonias. 
>     Sockpuppetry accusations (can't remember whether this was on FD or elsewhere) 
>     Whole thread dissolves into petty arguments and trolling. 

at which point Nicholas Lemonias apparently sent takedown requests to the list admin 
(John Cartwright) demanding archives of the thread be removed. John Cartwright couldn't 
be bothered with the legal hassle so shut the list instead. 

As John Cartwright said: 

> It's getting harder to operate an open forum in today's legal climate 


If only it had been on Usenet instead. 

see also <https://twitter.com/nicholemonias> 







-- 
regards
~tdk
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/5520#comment-18956

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#1832

On 2014-03-20, tdk <forum.tdk@squte.com> wrote:
> There's a lot of speculation on /. about what prompted this. 
>>     Whole thread dissolves into petty arguments and trolling. 
>
> at which point Nicholas Lemonias apparently sent takedown requests to
> the list admin (John Cartwright) demanding archives of the thread be
> removed. John Cartwright couldn't be bothered with the legal hassle so
> shut the list instead. 
>
> As John Cartwright said: 
>> It's getting harder to operate an open forum in today's legal climate 
> If only it had been on Usenet instead. 
>
> see also <https://twitter.com/nicholemonias> 

I guess it's easy (and not even inappropriate) to look into this and see
evil machinations and subtle plots.  Applying Occam's Razor, it's also
potentially nothing more than, the guy got tired of all the bullshit.
It's too bad, anyway.  (the idea of furry porn on the security list is
kind of funny, though)

I suppose that's another advantage of Usenet.  You can absolutely suffer
the same ills on Usenet, but you can't just shut down the list and go
home.  You abandon participating in the newsgroup, but the newsgroup
goes on...

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#1834

On 2014-03-20, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:

> I suppose that's another advantage of Usenet.  You can absolutely suffer
> the same ills on Usenet, but you can't just shut down the list and go
> home.  You abandon participating in the newsgroup, but the newsgroup
> goes on...

Or, in an awful lot of cases, doesn't.  Huge chunks of Usenet are just
tumbleweed and spam.


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 6th day of Discord in the YOLD 3180
A non-empty Hausdorff topological space is a continuous image of the unit
interval if and only if it is a compact, connected, locally connected
second-countable space.

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#1836

RS Wood wrote:
> 
> I suppose that's another advantage of Usenet.  You can absolutely suffer
> the same ills on Usenet, but you can't just shut down the list and go
> home.  You abandon participating in the newsgroup, but the newsgroup
> goes on...

Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long 
standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?

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#1838

john <nospam@no.net> wrote:
> RS Wood wrote:
> > 
> > I suppose that's another advantage of Usenet.  You can absolutely suffer
> > the same ills on Usenet, but you can't just shut down the list and go
> > home.  You abandon participating in the newsgroup, but the newsgroup
> > goes on...

> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long 
> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?

One does not use a GUI usenet client.

Usenet is textual, one uses a textual news reader.  Just as it should
be.

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#1839

On Thursday 20 March 2014 22:32, john conveyed the following to 
comp.misc...

> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long
> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?

KNode here.  Longstanding user.  It's got bugs - indeed - but I like 
it's look & feel.  I've tried Pan - which definitely has more fans than 
KNode - but I hate Pan.  Well, lately I'm not big a fan on anything GTK-
based anymore, except for GIMP.

Sylpheed Claws is also quite popular, but that's not strictly speaking a 
newsreader, as it does e-mail too.  Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users 
also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a 
dedicated newsreader.  And the same thing again for Opera Mail.

-- 
= Aragorn =

         http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

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#1843 — Usenet clients: knode, other

On 2014-03-21, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 March 2014 22:32, john conveyed the following to comp.misc...
>
>> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long
>> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?
>
> KNode here.  Longstanding user.  It's got bugs - indeed - but I like
> it's look & feel.  I've tried Pan - which definitely has more fans
> than KNode - but I hate Pan.  Well, lately I'm not big a fan on
> anything GTK- based anymore, except for GIMP.
>
> Sylpheed Claws is also quite popular, but that's not strictly speaking
> a newsreader, as it does e-mail too.  Many GNU/Linux and/or *BSD users
> also use Thunderbird, but that one has the same problem: it's not a
> dedicated newsreader.  And the same thing again for Opera Mail.
>

Not clear to me what you'd mean by 'rejuvenate.'  I thought it was in
active development?  And I don't see immediately much of anything I wish
it had in addition - it's got pretty decent filters, sorting, etc.
Maybe better search?  I can only imagine they're hoping Nepomuk/Akonadi
will take care of search on all KDE apps' behalf.  My only personal
gripe is that when they went from KDE3 to KDE4 (I think), Knode lost the
ability to cause the individual panels to float, or you could move them
around.  I used to like somewhat non-traditional panel arrangements
(groups in top left, messages on bottom left, and message viewer the
entire right side, for example) and you can no longer do that.  I still
get that functionality running an old SUSE distro in a VM.

As for Pan, same comment: I'm convinced the version they put out in
about 2000-2001 was about as good as it got.  I still use it from time
to time, but never really 'like' it.  I also like back in the day, their
killfiles were called "bozo filters."  That's exactly how I use them.

These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.

Aragorn, you're absolutely right about operamail, sylpheed, etc.  I
guess the Rolls Royce of news readers is gnus.  I've played with a bit
and found it more powerful than any other newreader I've ever seen.  But
I haven't done the homework to use it properly yet, so it has sort of
scared me off.  I wasn't even able to get aliases to work properly, for
example, and that's just a starting point.

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#1852 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:03:44 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood belched forth:


> On 2014-03-21, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thursday 20 March 2014 22:32, john conveyed the following to comp.misc...
>>
>>> Now I wish someone would rejuvenate KNode. Or at least fix some long
>>> standing bugs. What GUI usenet client are y'all using?
>>
>> KNode here.  Longstanding user.  It's got bugs - indeed - but I like
>> it's look & feel.  I've tried Pan - which definitely has more fans
>> than KNode - but I hate Pan.  Well, lately I'm not big a fan on
>> anything GTK- based anymore, except for GIMP.

(snip)

> These days SLRN is my preference, though I've never liked the fact that
> once you've read a message, it's gone unless you "un-catch up" the
> group.  Other than that, SLRN + vim is very nice.
> 

My own preferences (depending on system used) are:

[linux]
Tin (I have an inexplicable fondness...)
Pan

[Windows]
40tude Dialog

[other]
MT-Newswatcher (Mac)
Newscoaster (Amiga)


-- 
Am I really conceited?  No, but I have every right to be!
conceitedjerk.blogspot.com / Twitter: @Conceitedjerk

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#1854 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]

Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.

Ah, how I've missed USENET :)

DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no

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#1864 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

In message <86bnwzzkz4.fsf@nine.des.no> 
  Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)

Oh man, I need one of those shirts.

-- 
Clarke's Law: Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic

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#1870 — 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other)

On 2014-03-21, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
>> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]
>
> Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.
>
> Ah, how I've missed USENET :)
>
> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)

Holy crap, they exist!
http://ingebrigtsen.no/twenty.php

They seem to be a creation of Lars Ingebrigtsen, who I guess is
connected to the gnus newsreader?  Might have to get one of these.

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#1876 — Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other)

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> writes:
> > DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)
> Holy crap, they exist!

I should hope so.  If not, I was hallucinating and actually went to work
shirtless this morning, which is generally frowned upon, even in Norway.

> They seem to be a creation of Lars Ingebrigtsen, who I guess is
> connected to the gnus newsreader?  Might have to get one of these.

Yes, larsi is the author of Gnus.  Or perhaps I should say the original
author of the current incarnation of Gnus, since a) it's more of a
community effort these days and b) ISTR there was something called Gnus
before he came along and rewrote it from scratch.

DES
-- 
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@des.no

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#2126 — Re: 20 Years of September

Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> writes:

> b) ISTR there was something called Gnus before he came along and
> rewrote it from scratch.

Actually it was called GNUS, in all caps. I remember using that in 1996
or so. And yes, Gnus was a huge improvement from the start. Still kinda
slow back then, not a problem in this day and age though.

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#1914 — Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other)

In message <lgi8qh$7lr$1@solani.org> 
  RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-21, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
>> Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
>>> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]
>>
>> Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.
>>
>> Ah, how I've missed USENET :)
>>
>> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)

> Holy crap, they exist!
> http://ingebrigtsen.no/twenty.php

They existed.

-- 
Forever was over. All the sands had fallen. The great race between
entropy and energy had been run, and the favourite had been the winner
after all.  Perhaps he ought to sharpen the blade again?  No.  Not much
point, really.

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#1916 — Re: 20 Years of September (was Re: Usenet clients: knode, other)

On 2014-03-23, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> Holy crap, they exist!
>> http://ingebrigtsen.no/twenty.php
>
> They existed.

Sorry to hear they're no longer for sale.  Your .sig accompanying that
post was strangely appropriate - but depressing.

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#1872 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

On 2014-03-21, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
>> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]
>
> Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.
>
> Ah, how I've missed USENET :)
>
> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)

I do hope this doesn't presage a repeat of the editor wars ...

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#1883 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

On 2014-03-21, Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:
> On 2014-03-21, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
>> Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
>>> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]
>>
>> Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.
>>
>> Ah, how I've missed USENET :)
>>
>> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)
>
> I do hope this doesn't presage a repeat of the editor wars ...

Probably not.  I think folks got fed up of them.  I know I did.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#1887 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

On 2014-03-22, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-03-21, Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-03-21, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
>>> Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> writes:
>>>> My own preferences (depending on system used) are:  [...]
>>>
>>> Gnus is the One True email and news client for the One True editor.
>>>
>>> Ah, how I've missed USENET :)
>>>
>>> DES (wearing his "Twenty Years of September" T-shirt)
>>
>> I do hope this doesn't presage a repeat of the editor wars ...
>
> Probably not.  I think folks got fed up of them.  I know I did.

We can hope for a peaceful renaissance.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#1862 — Re: Usenet clients: knode, other

> [news readers]

I got hooked on nn around 1990. I'm not a touch-typist so its economy
of keystrokes appeals to me. I build from FreeBSD ports but apply a
local patch to mask off the high bit in displayed text because otherwise
it leaks terminal control codes from messages that contain non-ascii
characters. Not optimal, but good enough.

All my mailing list subscriptions are gated to local newsgroups
so I can access them via nn.

The efficiency of nn's UI is the killer feature for me. The GUI
newsreaders seem cumbersome in comparison.

It's getting a bit long in the tooth (needs better character-set
and MIME support, as well as kill pattern-matching  improvements,
for example). I fantasize about an nn rewrite in python or perl
because I think it would simplify the code quite a bit and make
maintenance and enhancements easier, but alas, no time to work
on it.
-- 
G. Paul Ziemba
FreeBSD unix:
 9:11AM  up 54 days, 10:10, 12 users, load averages: 1.67, 1.62, 1.54

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