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500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

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  500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it RS Wood  <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-22 10:45 +0000
    Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-22 12:36 +0100
    Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-22 10:28 -0300
      Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2014-02-22 15:20 +0100
      Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-22 15:37 +0100
        Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-22 12:01 -0300
      Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-22 17:38 +0000
        Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-22 16:48 -0300
      Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-23 13:34 -0300
        Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-23 19:44 +0100
          Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-23 16:59 -0300
            Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Kees Nuyt <k.nuyt@nospam.demon.nl> - 2014-02-23 22:11 +0100
              Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-02-23 21:31 +0000
                Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2014-02-24 12:35 -0300
                  Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-25 13:19 +0000
            Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-24 07:47 +0100
    Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 01:20 +0000
      Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-23 02:55 +0000
        Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 08:50 +0000
          Omea Reader (was 500K users left ...) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-23 09:25 +0000
            Re: Omea Reader (was 500K users left ...) Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 10:00 +0000
          Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 09:28 +0000
            Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 09:41 +0000
              Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 09:44 +0000
                Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 10:03 +0000
                  Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 13:11 +0000
                Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-23 11:14 +0000
                  Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 17:31 +0000
            Netiquette WAS: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-23 12:39 +0100
              Re: Netiquette WAS: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-02-23 13:14 +0000
                Re: Netiquette WAS: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-23 16:04 +0000
                  Re: Netiquette WAS: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 05:34 +0000
          Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-24 05:29 +0000
      Re: 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it Fum <fum@fum.fum> - 2014-02-24 07:32 +0000

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#688 — 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

From the "I am back on AIM" department:
Title: WhatsApp lost 500,000 of its users to Telegram, but most others seem happy to stay
Author: Jon Russell
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:39:19 -0500
Link: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheNextWeb/~3/NivHhG4RLoE/
Podcast Download URL: http://cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/whatsapp1-520x245.jpg

[image 1]

There doesn’t appear to be drones of WhatsApp users running for a rival
service following the messaging app’s $19 billion acquisition by Facebook[2].
Telegram — a security-focused messenger from Russia — looks to have netted
the bulk of the migrants after announcing a record 500,000 new sign-ups after
the deal, while other apps enjoying spikes include Threema, which attracted
200,000 new users[3].

To the good news. 500,000 people signed up for Telegram today.

— Telegram Messenger (@telegram) February 20, 2014[4]

Reviews of the Telegram app on Google Play show plenty of new users who
switched over from WhatsApp because it is now owned by Facebook:

[image 6][5]

Launched last year, Telegram is a messaging client for iOS and Android that
is very WhatsApp-like with a basic user interface and focus on sending
messages quickly and efficiently. Like its big rival, Telegram doesn’t serve
ads, but there are key differences between the two.

WhatsApp charges users $1 per year after an initial 12 months for free, but
Telegram is free to use forever. Telegram’s core appeal is a strong focus on
security[7], an area where WhatsApp is less steady[8]. It is open source and
based on a custom data protocol, which has led to a roster of unofficial apps
being developed and offered by enthusiasts.

Founders Nikolai and Pavel Durov launched Russian social network VK, and are
focused on making Telegram a non-profit organization that is solely focused
on serving its users.

Its website explains[9] that Telgram is not for sale[10], and sheds light on
its donation-based funding structure:

We believe in fast and secure messaging that is also 100 percent free.

Commercial companies frequently face the need to compromise their values
for financial gain. This is why we made Telegram a non-commercial project.
Telegram is not intended to bring revenue, it will never sell ads or accept
outside investment. It also cannot be sold. We’re not building a “user
base”, we are building a messenger for the people.

Pavel Durov, who shares our vision, supplied Telegram with a generous
donation through his Digital Fortress fund, so we have quite enough money
for the time being. If Telegram runs out, we’ll invite our users to donate
or add non-essential paid options.

TechCrunch reported[11] that the app had 100,000 daily active users in late
October 2013, no further update has been shared since then.

Aside from picking up a sizable boost from the WhatsApp deal, Telegram has
made steady progress in Spain — where WhatsApp rules the messaging roost and
Japan’s Line is challenging:

@alt1040[12] Actually, it’s over 200.000 new Spanish users daily now. And
still growing. ))

— Telegram Messenger (@telegram) February 5, 2014[13]

To be clear, though a promising start for Telegram, this is not an immediate
threat to WhatsApp. The company adds over one million new sign-ups per day,
and losing 500,000 users to Telegram – assuming that they all came from
WhatsApp – would represent a mere 0.1 percent of its total active user base.

WhatsApp appears to have gotten a good reception from its users, with few
sightings of user protests and little evidence of large scale fleeing. It
seems that most fully believe the company and Facebook when they say things
won’t change, or simply aren’t interested in switching to a rival service.

Headline image via LIONEL BONAVENTURE/AFP/Getty Images[14]
[image 16][15][image 18][17][image 20][19][image 21]

Links:
[1]: http://cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/whatsapp1-520x245.jpg (image)
[2]: http://thenextweb.com/facebook/2014/02/19/facebook-acquires-whatsapp-16-billion/ (link)
[3]: http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/21/bye-bye-whatsapp-germans-switch-to-threema-for-privacy-reasons/ (link)
[4]: https://twitter.com/telegram/statuses/436648220392161280 (link)
[5]: http://cdn1.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/telegram.png (link)
[6]: http://cdn2.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2014/02/telegram-730x197.png (image)
[7]: https://telegram.org/blog/crowdsourcing-a-more-secure-future (link)
[8]: http://pando.com/2014/02/21/the-problem-with-whatsapps-privacy-boasts-theyre-not-true/ (link)
[9]: https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-are-you-going-to-make-money-out-of-this (link)
[10]: https://twitter.com/telegram/statuses/436790170445414400 (link)
[11]: http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/27/meet-telegram-a-secure-messaging-app-from-the-founders-of-vk-russias-largest-social-network/ (link)
[12]: https://twitter.com/alt1040 (link)
[13]: https://twitter.com/telegram/statuses/431035097119088640 (link)
[14]: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-logo-of-mobile-app-whatsapp-is-displayed-on-a-tablet-on-news-photo/460308557 (link)
[15]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?a=NivHhG4RLoE:YnooDJh7BYM:D7DqB2pKExk (link)
[16]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?i=NivHhG4RLoE:YnooDJh7BYM:D7DqB2pKExk (image)
[17]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?a=NivHhG4RLoE:YnooDJh7BYM:yIl2AUoC8zA (link)
[18]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?d=yIl2AUoC8zA (image)
[19]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?a=NivHhG4RLoE:YnooDJh7BYM:V_sGLiPBpWU (link)
[20]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/TheNextWeb?i=NivHhG4RLoE:YnooDJh7BYM:V_sGLiPBpWU (image)
[21]: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheNextWeb/~4/NivHhG4RLoE (image)

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#694

On 2014-02-22, RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:
> To the good news. 500,000 people signed up for Telegram today.

I checked Telegram, and of all options it appears to be the most
viable one for me at the moment. Unfortunately, according to their own
FAQ it is not fully open source yet, although it does not list the
closed source components explicitly. Still, it is the only practical
service I know which apparently plans to make the software entirely
open source, and I guess it should be possible to implement a client
which never even exposes the private key to the API, thus using their
infrastructure without relying on their honesty. At least, for the
encryption they use well established algorithms (AES, RSA,
Diffie-Hellman for key exchange).

> To be clear, though a promising start for Telegram, this is not an immediate
> threat to WhatsApp. The company adds over one million new sign-ups per day,
> and losing 500,000 users to Telegram – assuming that they all came from
> WhatsApp – would represent a mere 0.1 percent of its total active user base.

I also didn't delete WhatsApp immediately. I just updated my Status to
"Ciao Whatsapp, Welcome Telegram and Viber". This gives my friends
time to figure out, where to find me in the future. But nevertheless I
will not use Whatsapp for messaging anymore.

My wife apparently also didn't delete her account, just the app from
her phone. So this is already two lost users not show in the number of
accounts yet.

I think it would be more interesting to see the amount of traffic
routed via WhatsApp instead of user numbers.


-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#700

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:45:51 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
<rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:

>Title: WhatsApp lost 500,000 of its users to Telegram

	If it's about privacy, moving to yet another USA based company
will accomplish absolutely nothing, it will still be subjected to
illegal tapping. I was rather pleased with the Russian-sounding names
of the founders, until I tracerouted it to the USA. It's just another
honeypot.
	Are there any companies providing free messaging outside the
NSA-collaborating countries ?
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#703

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:28:59 -0300
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

> 	Are there any companies providing free messaging outside the
> NSA-collaborating countries ?

Yes, any XMPP server out there. Or even your own, hosted wherever you damn
please.

Whatsapp-to-Telegram move? Pointless, in my opinion. You're trading one closed
solution for another, while XMPP has been around for decades, and has
dozens of clients available for any popular platform.

-- 
A.

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#704

On 2014-02-22, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
> 	If it's about privacy, moving to yet another USA based company
> will accomplish absolutely nothing, it will still be subjected to
> illegal tapping. I was rather pleased with the Russian-sounding names
> of the founders, until I tracerouted it to the USA. It's just another
> honeypot.

How is Telegram US based? How did you trace that?

Closed source: They at least announced that they plan to are in the
progress of open-sourcing stuff, even if not yet there. I'll give them
the benefit of the doubt in that one and have a look at the open
source components one of these days. 
But as long as they have an open protocol, it should be possible to
implement a completely free client using the protocol only to transfer
a public key and encrypted messages, and to locate fellow users.

Comparison to WhatsApp: If they are actually US based, I agree their
data will be accessible by NSA. But at least it won't be openly shared
to any advertiser, so I would see it as an improvement compared to
whats-app. 

I do agree that some of Telegrams claims look fishy. Self-destroying
messages are a stupid claim. Once they arrive at the target, the
client there can store it indefinitely.
From all those solutions currently getting publicity, they are the
best alternative for now. Lets wait and see.

-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#706

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:37:25 +0100, "q.kontinuum"
<achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 2014-02-22, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>> 	If it's about privacy, moving to yet another USA based company
>> will accomplish absolutely nothing, it will still be subjected to
>> illegal tapping. I was rather pleased with the Russian-sounding names
>> of the founders, until I tracerouted it to the USA. It's just another
>> honeypot.
>
>How is Telegram US based? How did you trace that?

	OK, I lied. FYEO:
	Traceroute was cut off. Another sign it might be a honeypot.

United States, Rochester, 14606	Telegram Messenger for iPhone and
Android

	Currports coupled with an old GeoLiteCity.dat (newer ones are
censored)
	Google "Currports Nirsoft"
>Comparison to WhatsApp: If they are actually US based, I agree their
>data will be accessible by NSA.

	That just makes you paranoid number 2. I'm certified.
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#714

In message <859hg99jgoq875nvpb1l1s3v0eeh472knb@4ax.com> 
  Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:45:51 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
> <rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:

>>Title: WhatsApp lost 500,000 of its users to Telegram

> 	If it's about privacy, moving to yet another USA based company
> will accomplish absolutely nothing, it will still be subjected to
> illegal tapping. I was rather pleased with the Russian-sounding names
> of the founders, until I tracerouted it to the USA. It's just another
> honeypot.

Wait, you think the tapping only applies to US Companies? Seriously?

Is your world filled with lollipops and candy canes? Are there puppies
and kittens on every street corner?`

> 	Are there any companies providing free messaging outside the
> NSA-collaborating countries ?

There is nowhere on the face of the planet (or near the face of the
planet for that matter) outside of the NSA's ability to tap.

-- 
in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on

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#724

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 17:38:07 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <859hg99jgoq875nvpb1l1s3v0eeh472knb@4ax.com> 
>  Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:45:51 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
>> <rswood@therandymon.com> wrote:
>
>>>Title: WhatsApp lost 500,000 of its users to Telegram
>
>> 	If it's about privacy, moving to yet another USA based company
>> will accomplish absolutely nothing, it will still be subjected to
>> illegal tapping. I was rather pleased with the Russian-sounding names
>> of the founders, until I tracerouted it to the USA. It's just another
>> honeypot.
>
>Wait, you think the tapping only applies to US Companies? Seriously?

	Of course not, that's why I use Russian and Chinese.
>
>Is your world filled with lollipops and candy canes? Are there puppies
>and kittens on every street corner?`

	Yes. Bloody Brazilian animal control does not work. And some
of the animals are rabid or have leishmaniosis.
>
>> 	Are there any companies providing free messaging outside the
>> NSA-collaborating countries ?
>
>There is nowhere on the face of the planet (or near the face of the
>planet for that matter) outside of the NSA's ability to tap.

	Probably.
	But there must be a compromise between cost/data obtained. Or
can you imagine an America starving so that a chosen few can have the
privilege of reading a Tibetan Schoolgirl's secret diary ?
	[]'s

	PS My data is for sale. Physical access to all my files.
$10.000 ONO. Much cheaper than spying.
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#798 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 10:28:59 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

>	Are there any companies providing free messaging outside the
>NSA-collaborating countries ?

	Serious questions seem to be OT here, hence the flag.
	That was a serious question. Are there any options ? Real
Russian or Chinese maybe ?

//	Created by the founders of Russia’s biggest social networking
platform, Telegram is a new messaging app that offers speed, security
and features such as secret chats with end-to-end encryption and
self-destructing messages.

Brothers Nikolai and Pavel Durov, who launched VK (originally called
VKontakte) in 2006, began working on Telegram 18 months ago as a
research project because they wanted to create something that was
“really secure and fun at the same time.” The importance of Telegram
was underscored when Edward Snowden’s revelations about NSA and PRISM
were first made public in June.//

	An obvious honeypot, with all the Russian names thrown in to
lull people into a false sense of security.
	It's servers geolocate to the Rochester, USA.
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#802 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On 2014-02-23, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
> 	An obvious honeypot, with all the Russian names thrown in to
> lull people into a false sense of security.
> 	It's servers geolocate to the Rochester, USA.

I'm not so sure. Maybe it's possible to test it... Following site
analyzed the protocol last autum:

# http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/

The main flaw appears to be the missing end2end-authentication, which
makes MITM attacks possible. Some others pointed out that the
key-generation is based on message content, which is a bad
idea. However, the essential question is, is the whole client open
source? If so, these problems can me fixed. If not, the next question
is: Is the protocol sufficiently documented to implement a full open
source client? If yes, doing that would be essential. If not, Telegram
lost all credibility.

-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#806 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:06 +0100, "q.kontinuum"
<achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 2014-02-23, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>> 	An obvious honeypot, with all the Russian names thrown in to
>> lull people into a false sense of security.
>> 	It's servers geolocate to the Rochester, USA.
>
>I'm not so sure. Maybe it's possible to test it... Following site
>analyzed the protocol last autum:
>
># http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/
>
>The main flaw appears to be the missing end2end-authentication, which
>makes MITM attacks possible. Some others pointed out that the
>key-generation is based on message content, which is a bad
>idea. However, the essential question is, is the whole client open
>source? If so, these problems can me fixed. If not, the next question
>is: Is the protocol sufficiently documented to implement a full open
>source client? If yes, doing that would be essential. If not, Telegram
>lost all credibility.

	Unless they are bluffing, the Telegram owners explain each so
called fault ---- so maybe it is safe. Read the comment section.
	Which still does not explain why when I connect my connection
goes through the USA. Surely it would route directly to Russia, or is
the NSA hijacking my connection ?
	I'm in Brazil, BTW.
	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#809 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 16:59:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:06 +0100, "q.kontinuum"
><achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 2014-02-23, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>>> 	An obvious honeypot, with all the Russian names thrown in to
>>> lull people into a false sense of security.
>>> 	It's servers geolocate to the Rochester, USA.
>>
>>I'm not so sure. Maybe it's possible to test it... Following site
>>analyzed the protocol last autum:
>>
>># http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/
>>
>>The main flaw appears to be the missing end2end-authentication, which
>>makes MITM attacks possible. Some others pointed out that the
>>key-generation is based on message content, which is a bad
>>idea. However, the essential question is, is the whole client open
>>source? If so, these problems can me fixed. If not, the next question
>>is: Is the protocol sufficiently documented to implement a full open
>>source client? If yes, doing that would be essential. If not, Telegram
>>lost all credibility.
>
>	Unless they are bluffing, the Telegram owners explain each so
>  called fault ---- so maybe it is safe. Read the comment section.
>	Which still does not explain why when I connect my connection
>  goes through the USA. Surely it would route directly to Russia, or is
>  the NSA hijacking my connection ?
>	I'm in Brazil, BTW.


Hm, There aren't many direct routes from Brazil to Russia....

http://submarinecablemap.com/


>	[]'s
-- 
Kees Nuyt

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#812 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On 23/02/2014 21:11, Kees Nuyt wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 16:59:07 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:06 +0100, "q.kontinuum"
>> <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2014-02-23, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>>>> 	An obvious honeypot, with all the Russian names thrown in to
>>>> lull people into a false sense of security.
>>>> 	It's servers geolocate to the Rochester, USA.
>>>
>>> I'm not so sure. Maybe it's possible to test it... Following site
>>> analyzed the protocol last autum:
>>>
>>> # http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/
>>>
>>> The main flaw appears to be the missing end2end-authentication, which
>>> makes MITM attacks possible. Some others pointed out that the
>>> key-generation is based on message content, which is a bad
>>> idea. However, the essential question is, is the whole client open
>>> source? If so, these problems can me fixed. If not, the next question
>>> is: Is the protocol sufficiently documented to implement a full open
>>> source client? If yes, doing that would be essential. If not, Telegram
>>> lost all credibility.
>>
>> 	Unless they are bluffing, the Telegram owners explain each so
>>   called fault ---- so maybe it is safe. Read the comment section.
>> 	Which still does not explain why when I connect my connection
>>   goes through the USA. Surely it would route directly to Russia, or is
>>   the NSA hijacking my connection ?
>> 	I'm in Brazil, BTW.
>
>
> Hm, There aren't many direct routes from Brazil to Russia....
>
> http://submarinecablemap.com/
>
>
>> 	[]'s

Do they not say that it is based in Berlin (rather than Russia or USA)?

-- 
Rod

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#851 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 21:31:24 +0000, polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk>
wrote:

>>> 	Unless they are bluffing, the Telegram owners explain each so
>>>   called fault ---- so maybe it is safe. Read the comment section.
>>> 	Which still does not explain why when I connect my connection
>>>   goes through the USA. Surely it would route directly to Russia, or is
>>>   the NSA hijacking my connection ?
>>> 	I'm in Brazil, BTW.
>>
>>
>> Hm, There aren't many direct routes from Brazil to Russia....
>>
>> http://submarinecablemap.com/
>>

	Someone worried:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/24/us-eu-brazil-idUSBREA1N0PL20140224

	[]'s
-- 
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy  - Google 2012

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#903 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

> >> Hm, There aren't many direct routes from Brazil to Russia....
> >>
> >> http://submarinecablemap.com/
> >>
> 
> 	Someone worried:
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/24/us-eu-brazil-idUSBREA1N0PL20140224

Amazingly, this apppeared on Soy today:

http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/02/25/051238

c0lo writes: "Reuters reports
(Reuters) Brazil and the European Union agreed on Monday to lay an undersea communications cable from Lisbon to Fortaleza to reduce Brazil's reliance on the United States after Washington spied on Brasilia.

At a summit in Brussels, Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff said the $185 million cable project was central to "guarantee the neutrality" of the Internet, signaling her desire to shield Brazil's Internet traffic from U.S. surveillance. According to other sources, the construction is scheduled to begin in July.

A joint venture between Brazilian telecoms provider Telebras and Spain's IslaLink Submarine Cables would lay the communications link. Telebras would have a 35 percent stake, IslaLink would have a 45 percent interest and European and Brazilian pension funds could put up the remainder.

So it has come to this"

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#826 — Re: [OT] 500K users left WhatsApp when Facebook bought it

On 2014-02-23, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:06 +0100, "q.kontinuum"
>># http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/17/telegram-stand-back-we-know-maths/
>>
>>The main flaw appears to be the missing end2end-authentication, which
>>makes MITM attacks possible. 
>
> 	Unless they are bluffing, the Telegram owners explain each so
> called fault ---- so maybe it is safe. Read the comment section.

I did read the faq section. It only explains why supposedly the choice
of algorithms is secure for their use case. I did not find any point
about end2end authentication, which is the crucial point for MITM
attacks. Do you have a link on any comments on that?
I just started looking into the client (well, not much. I need to
learn more about crypto to get some real benefit, and I don't have
much experience with gradle or Android development.)
Inside the repository is a shared object "libtmessages.so", for which
I can't find source code. When I try to build, lots of dependencies
are pulled via maven; I didn't review the list yet, the ones I knew
sounded like open source projects though.

I think it should be possible to add an own session-key-exchage on an
unsecured chat, based on email/keyserver/public key, and even have it
compatible enough to run with other, unmodified clients, But since the
pre-compiled shared object runs in the same process space, this might
not be save. (Then again, most phones have locked boot-loaders and
precompiled images; even with cyanogen-mod, the modem code [and some
drivers] are usually closed source, so the trust to device
communication should be taken with a grain of salt anyways.)

> 	Which still does not explain why when I connect my connection
> goes through the USA. Surely it would route directly to Russia, or is
> the NSA hijacking my connection ?

I'm not concerned about that. If the crypto-implementation is sound,
they can redirect all they want, and even without redirection I
wouldn't trust they can't sniff it in some friendly state nearby.


-- 
Trolling is a art!

My public-key is available on http://tinyurl.com/ps9r99y

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#746

> losing 500,000 users to Telegram – assuming that they all came from
> WhatsApp – would represent a mere 0.1 percent of its total active user
> base.

What the hell? WhatsApp has half a BILLION active users? And DAILY sign-ups 
of over one million?
Who made up those numbers and why did facebook believe them to buy out this 
scam of a company for a ton of money?



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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#747

In message <a7d6b974aee8d0fe54e9505ef0@news.neostrada.pl> 
  Fum <fum@fum.fum> wrote:
>> losing 500,000 users to Telegram – assuming that they all came from
>> WhatsApp – would represent a mere 0.1 percent of its total active user
>> base.

> What the hell? WhatsApp has half a BILLION active users? And DAILY sign-ups 
> of over one million?
> Who made up those numbers and why did facebook believe them to buy out this 
> scam of a company for a ton of money?

Why would you think the numbers are made up?

> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com

1) this is not an email
2) the posting also lacks a proper signature delimiter
3) Your lame-ass virus bullshit isn't wanted here, nor is it needed.

-- 
'You don't think you've had enough, do you?' he said.  I KNOW WHEN I'VE
HAD ENOUGH.  'Everyone says that, though.  I KNOW WHEN EVERYONE'S HAD
ENOUGH. --Moving Pictures

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#752

> Why would you think the numbers are made up?
Oh, I don't know... Maybe because that would mean almost 50% of all android 
users are constantly using it.
Maybe because Google Play page lists the total number of installs as between 
one hundred and five hundred million?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.whatsapp
I'm pretty sure they have half a billion installs, but active users? Not 
a chance in hell.

> 1) this is not an email
This is an e-mail. Please educate yourself on how usenet works.

> 2) the posting also lacks a proper signature delimiter
Stop being a rude and pretentious dork who nit-picks on things nobody cares 
about.

> 3) Your lame-ass virus bullshit isn't wanted here, nor is it needed.
Which I promptly disabled. I was not aware Avast adds this sort of crap to 
the end of e-mails.

-- 
Also, people who require signatures of others need to get a life.

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#755 — Omea Reader (was 500K users left ...)

On 2014-02-23, Fum <fum@fum.fum> wrote:
>> 3) Your lame-ass virus bullshit isn't wanted here, nor is it needed.
> Which I promptly disabled. I was not aware Avast adds this sort of crap to 
> the end of e-mails.
>

Before you two decide to launch into the sort of flamewar for which
Usenet is all too famous, I'm hoping we can get back on topic or at
least back to a place of civility.  Usenet's filter-free conversation is
a benefit, but also unfortunately makes this sort of confrontation
develop far too easily into unpleasant stuff.

Fum - I habitually keep the X-Newsreader header visible out of
curiosity what software other people use to post, and I've never heard
of yours, Jetbrains Omea Reader.  How do you like it?   Looks useful.

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