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  olduse.net RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-07 20:23 +0000
    Re: olduse.net john <nospam@no.net> - 2014-03-07 12:35 -0900
      Re: olduse.net Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-08 07:23 +0000
        Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-08 14:27 +0000
          Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-08 15:13 +0000
            Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-08 15:46 +0000
              Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-08 17:35 +0000
                Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-08 19:07 +0000
                  Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-09 08:15 +0000
                    Re: olduse.net Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-09 09:43 +0000
                      Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-09 10:51 +0000
                    Re: olduse.net Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-03-09 11:04 -0400
                      Re: olduse.net Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-09 17:27 +0200
                      Re: olduse.net RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-09 17:54 +0000
                        Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-09 18:12 +0000
                        Re: olduse.net Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-03-17 13:02 -0500
                          Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-17 19:48 +0000
                            Re: olduse.net Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-03-17 15:32 -0500
                              Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-17 22:20 +0000
                                Re: olduse.net Conceited Jerk <cj.speakeasy@AAARGHgmail.com> - 2014-03-19 08:44 -0500
                      Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-09 17:55 +0000
                        Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-09 18:14 +0000
                          Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 08:59 +0000
                            Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-10 10:18 +0000
                              Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 10:39 +0000
                                Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-10 10:58 +0000
                                  Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 11:38 +0000
                                    Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-10 11:48 +0000
                                      Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 12:05 +0000
                                      Re: olduse.net RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-10 12:09 +0000
                                        Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-10 12:44 +0000
                                          Re: olduse.net RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-10 13:08 +0000
                                            Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 13:16 +0000
                                            Re: olduse.net Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-10 14:27 +0000
                                          Re: olduse.net Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-10 13:13 +0000
                                        Re: olduse.net Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-10 22:28 +0000
                              Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-10 16:51 +0000
                                Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-10 16:55 +0000
                            Re: olduse.net Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-10 21:25 +0000
                              Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-10 22:31 +0000
                      Re: olduse.net Adrian C <email@here.invalid> - 2014-03-09 20:52 +0000
                        Re: olduse.net cykros@devio.us - 2014-03-11 04:42 +0000
                      Re: olduse.net Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-10 00:31 +0000
                        Re: olduse.net Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-03-11 11:21 +0000
                          Re: olduse.net Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-11 14:08 +0000
                            Re: olduse.net Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2014-03-11 17:39 +0000
                              Re: olduse.net Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-03-11 15:02 -0400
                                Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-11 19:32 +0000
                                  Re: olduse.net Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2014-03-11 15:56 -0400
                                    Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-11 23:31 +0000
                                    Re: olduse.net Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-12 00:34 +0000
                                      Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-12 01:34 +0000
                                        Re: olduse.net Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-12 02:36 +0000
                                          Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-12 09:37 +0000
                                            Re: olduse.net Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-12 17:08 +0000
                                              Re: olduse.net Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-12 17:43 +0000
                                                Re: olduse.net Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-13 00:38 +0000
      Re: olduse.net Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-08 10:11 +0000
    Re: olduse.net "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 18:58 -0600
    Re: olduse.net "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-07 22:25 -0600

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#1397

On 09/03/2014 15:04, Dan Espen wrote:
> Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> writes:
>
>> My field is the creative industry and my degree is in photography, but over
>> the last 10 years or so I've become increasingly a "computer nerd" and
>> would love to drop everything and spend 3 years doing a CS degree, not
>> necessarily to pursue a career but rather to just geek out. Any chance I
>> can gate crash your session on the 17th? ;-) heh. Probably best not to, I
>> don't know shite from dirty pudding when it comes to Unix, only significant
>> CLI work I ever did was on my Amiga 1200, and I never got on with it.
>
> It has been a long time since the CLI was a necessary part of using
> unix.
>
> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.
> Good luck even finding the CLI there.
>
> If you do want to learn about computers,  doing a Linux install
> is probably the best way to go.  And, it's completely free.
> Get yourself a live CD or bootable USB key and you don't even have to
> change anything on your hard disk.
>

Best start with the 'net install' / 'minimal install CD' and skip the X 
stuff. AND use a hard drive. Hell, even an otherwise dead machine.

Or a Rasberry Pi / HP Microserver.

Live CDs are for wimps ...

-- 
Adrian C

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#1446

Adrian C <email@here.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/03/2014 15:04, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> writes:
>>
>>> My field is the creative industry and my degree is in photography, but over
>>> the last 10 years or so I've become increasingly a "computer nerd" and
>>> would love to drop everything and spend 3 years doing a CS degree, not
>>> necessarily to pursue a career but rather to just geek out. Any chance I
>>> can gate crash your session on the 17th? ;-) heh. Probably best not to, I
>>> don't know shite from dirty pudding when it comes to Unix, only significant
>>> CLI work I ever did was on my Amiga 1200, and I never got on with it.
>>
>> It has been a long time since the CLI was a necessary part of using
>> unix.
>>
>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.
>> Good luck even finding the CLI there.
>>
>> If you do want to learn about computers,  doing a Linux install
>> is probably the best way to go.  And, it's completely free.
>> Get yourself a live CD or bootable USB key and you don't even have to
>> change anything on your hard disk.
>>
> 
> Best start with the 'net install' / 'minimal install CD' and skip the X 
> stuff. AND use a hard drive. Hell, even an otherwise dead machine.
> 
> Or a Rasberry Pi / HP Microserver.
> 
> Live CDs are for wimps ...

Heh, why pull the punches there?  Just tell him to do a stage1 Gentoo
install, or go with Arch.

Do a few installs that way and you'll start to realize that the "Slack"
in "Slackware" isn't meant to be ironic after all...

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#1402

In message <icob1fv2fb.fsf@home.home> 
  Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> writes:

>> My field is the creative industry and my degree is in photography, but over
>> the last 10 years or so I've become increasingly a "computer nerd" and
>> would love to drop everything and spend 3 years doing a CS degree, not
>> necessarily to pursue a career but rather to just geek out. Any chance I
>> can gate crash your session on the 17th? ;-) heh. Probably best not to, I
>> don't know shite from dirty pudding when it comes to Unix, only significant
>> CLI work I ever did was on my Amiga 1200, and I never got on with it. 

> It has been a long time since the CLI was a necessary part of using
> unix.

The CLI is necessary if you want to use it *well*.

> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.
> Good luck even finding the CLI there.

The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
the way down.

> If you do want to learn about computers,  doing a Linux install
> is probably the best way to go.  And, it's completely free.
> Get yourself a live CD or bootable USB key and you don't even have to
> change anything on your hard disk.

I prefer BSD myself, but yes.

-- 
Of course, there were various groups seeking his overthrow, and this was
right and proper and the sign of a vigorous and healthy society. No-one
could call him unreasonable about the matter. Why, hadn't he founded
most of them himself? And what was so beautiful was the way they spent
nearly all their time bickering with one another.  Human nature, the
Patrician always said, was a marvelous thing. Once you understood where
its levers were. --Guards! Guards!

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#1458

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:

>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>> finding the CLI there.
>
> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
> the way down.

The e-ink devices don’t use Android (or at least, they certainly didn’t
used to, and I think this remains true); they include a long list of
components familiar from desktop systems.  Download Amazon’s
GPL-compliance tarball and take a look.

The Kindle Fire is an Android tablet.  But Android isn’t “Java all the
way down”.  You will find a variant of the BSD Libc in there for a
start; also AIUI SQLite, Webkit and probably other native-code
components.  I can run ksh on my Android phone (though I suspect you
can’t do that on a Kindle Fire).

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#1461

In message <wwvvbvldlpt.fsf@l1AntVDjLrnP7Td3DQJ8ynzIq3lJMueXf87AxnpFoA.invalid> 
  Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:

>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>>> finding the CLI there.
>>
>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
>> the way down.

> The e-ink devices don’t use Android (or at least, they certainly didn’t
> used to, and I think this remains true); they include a long list of
> components familiar from desktop systems.  Download Amazon’s
> GPL-compliance tarball and take a look.

I was *obviously* talking about the kindle that runs android.

-- 
You may be anti anti-spam-kook if: Despite having invented the FUSSP you
not only don't know the difference between the SMTP envelope and SMTP
headers; you doubt there is such a thing as the SMTP envelop because
email doesn't involve paper.

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#1471

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>>>> finding the CLI there.
>>>
>>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
>>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
>>> the way down.
>
>> The e-ink devices don’t use Android (or at least, they certainly didn’t
>> used to, and I think this remains true); they include a long list of
>> components familiar from desktop systems.  Download Amazon’s
>> GPL-compliance tarball and take a look.
>
> I was *obviously* talking about the kindle that runs android.

I think what matters may be what Dan meant, but in any case, see the
other half the posting, then.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#1475

Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>>>>> finding the CLI there.
>>>>
>>>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
>>>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
>>>> the way down.

I don't see what difference it makes what the apps are written in.
It's Linux, it has no CLI to speak of.

Other distros come with pretty complete configuration tools too.
I use the CLI sometimes, (when I'm not using Emacs) but I don't view it
as necessary, just an added bonus.

And the last time I checked, Windows has a CLI too.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#1477

In article <iczjkwsgmu.fsf@home.home>, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> writes:
> 
> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> >> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
> >>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
> >>>>> finding the CLI there.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
> >>>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
> >>>> the way down.
> 
> I don't see what difference it makes what the apps are written in.
> It's Linux, it has no CLI to speak of.

On the assumption that the CLI of Linux is similar to that of OS X,
then I don't see how you can justify that statement.

> And the last time I checked, Windows has a CLI too.

And a PoS it is, too. A few weeks ago I had to make versions of some
PHP scripts that ask OS X to run an executable for them, and provide
output from the executable back to the PHP script. In most cases this
was problematic under the Windows CLI. Either I couldn't get a return
code, or I couldn't get results back, or, in the case where I was
trying to ask Win7 what timezone it had set, there was no reliable way
to do it at all.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#1480

Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:

> In article <iczjkwsgmu.fsf@home.home>, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>
>> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>> >> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> >>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>> >>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>> >>>>> finding the CLI there.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
>> >>>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
>> >>>> the way down.
>>
>> I don't see what difference it makes what the apps are written in.
>> It's Linux, it has no CLI to speak of.
>
> On the assumption that the CLI of Linux is similar to that of OS X,
> then I don't see how you can justify that statement.

You lost me there.
I didn't mention OS X.
Linux has many CLIs.

The Kindle is Linux and so far, it's hidden it's CLI pretty damn well.
I've no doubt there is some kind of terminal app for the device but
I haven't needed it.

Which supports my point.  You can use Linux without a CLI.

>> And the last time I checked, Windows has a CLI too.
>
> And a PoS it is, too. A few weeks ago I had to make versions of some
> PHP scripts that ask OS X to run an executable for them, and provide
> output from the executable back to the PHP script. In most cases this
> was problematic under the Windows CLI. Either I couldn't get a return
> code, or I couldn't get results back, or, in the case where I was
> trying to ask Win7 what timezone it had set, there was no reliable way
> to do it at all.

I'm really in the dark on the subject of Windows CLIs,
except that I've installed Cygwin on several Windows boxes.
Seems fine to me.

I thought the "Power Shell" might be a step up, but I haven't
looked.

Okay, looked around.

In Cygwin, "echo $TZ" works fine.
For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".

Wait a minute, I don't do Windows!

-- 
Dan Espen

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#1490

In article <icvbvkse5b.fsf@home.home>, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Okay, looked around.
> 
> In Cygwin, "echo $TZ" works fine.
> For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".

I tried the latter. I can't remember exactly what the problem was, but
after poking around it seemed like it was not possible to unambiguously
obtain the time zone. That was about 3 months ago and I haven't
bothered since.

-- 
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling 
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't 
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities."                  - D M Procida, UCSM

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#1492

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:56:16 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
>
>> In article <iczjkwsgmu.fsf@home.home>, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>>
>>> > Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>>> >> Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> >>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:
>>> >>>> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>>> If you have a Kindle, you are using a flavor of unix.  Good luck even
>>> >>>>> finding the CLI there.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The Kindle (as all Android) is a Java platform. There is no UNIX there.
>>> >>>> There is a Linux KERNEL, but that is not the same thing. It's Java all
>>> >>>> the way down.
>>>
>>> I don't see what difference it makes what the apps are written in.
>>> It's Linux, it has no CLI to speak of.
>>
>> On the assumption that the CLI of Linux is similar to that of OS X,
>> then I don't see how you can justify that statement.
>
>You lost me there.
>I didn't mention OS X.
>Linux has many CLIs.
>
>The Kindle is Linux and so far, it's hidden it's CLI pretty damn well.
>I've no doubt there is some kind of terminal app for the device but
>I haven't needed it.
>
>Which supports my point.  You can use Linux without a CLI.
>
>>> And the last time I checked, Windows has a CLI too.
>>
>> And a PoS it is, too. A few weeks ago I had to make versions of some
>> PHP scripts that ask OS X to run an executable for them, and provide
>> output from the executable back to the PHP script. In most cases this
>> was problematic under the Windows CLI. Either I couldn't get a return
>> code, or I couldn't get results back, or, in the case where I was
>> trying to ask Win7 what timezone it had set, there was no reliable way
>> to do it at all.
>
>I'm really in the dark on the subject of Windows CLIs,
>except that I've installed Cygwin on several Windows boxes.
>Seems fine to me.
>
>I thought the "Power Shell" might be a step up, but I haven't
>looked.
>
>Okay, looked around.
>
>In Cygwin, "echo $TZ" works fine.
>For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".
>
>Wait a minute, I don't do Windows!

 In win2k I get:

" Time zone:  GMT Standard Time  GMT Daylight Time"

-- 
Regards, J B Good

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#1494

In article <8qavh9d98idqt1m9edr15r0l5hf7al623h@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
<johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:56:16 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
> wrote:

> >For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".

>  In win2k I get:
> 
> " Time zone:  GMT Standard Time  GMT Daylight Time"

Ok, which is it?

Here under OS X I get "Europe/London" which is what I want.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#1497

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 01:34:51 +0000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

>In article <8qavh9d98idqt1m9edr15r0l5hf7al623h@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
><johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:56:16 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> >For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".
>
>>  In win2k I get:
>> 
>> " Time zone:  GMT Standard Time  GMT Daylight Time"
>
>Ok, which is it?

 I'm guessing that GMT Standard Time simply means the time zone. The
GMT Daylight Time looks odd, perhaps it'll change to "GMT Daylight
Saving Time" when the clocks go forward to BST (aka Bull Shit Time[1])
just after the spring equinox.

>
>Here under OS X I get "Europe/London" which is what I want.

 That's just an alias for GMT Standard Time.

[1] The only nice thing about being on Bull Shit Time is that I can
jump out bed just before 1pm BST and still fulfil my promise that I
always get up "By the crack of noon". :-)
-- 
Regards, J B Good

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#1509

In article <ddhvh91ig7ge1cuto7vr64ksb3ha1loo64@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
<johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 01:34:51 +0000, Tim Streater
> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> >In article <8qavh9d98idqt1m9edr15r0l5hf7al623h@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
> ><johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:56:16 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> >For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".
> >
> >>  In win2k I get:
> >> 
> >> " Time zone:  GMT Standard Time  GMT Daylight Time"
> >
> >Ok, which is it?
> 
>  I'm guessing that GMT Standard Time simply means the time zone. The
> GMT Daylight Time looks odd, perhaps it'll change to "GMT Daylight
> Saving Time" when the clocks go forward to BST (aka Bull Shit Time[1])
> just after the spring equinox.

Fine, so which part of this string do I feed to PHP's function
date_timezone_set()? More generally, which part of the output of "w32tm
/tz" do I use?

> >Here under OS X I get "Europe/London" which is what I want.
> 
>  That's just an alias for GMT Standard Time.

Alias or not, it's what I want. Here (and I'm guessing on any unix), I
can do:

cd /etc
ls -la localtime

and I get:

lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  33 20 Dec 22:58 localtime ->
/usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/London

so I get something predictable rather than the random shit I get using
w32tm.

-- 
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling 
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't 
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities."                  - D M Procida, UCSM

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#1529

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:37:46 +0000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

>In article <ddhvh91ig7ge1cuto7vr64ksb3ha1loo64@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
><johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 01:34:51 +0000, Tim Streater
>> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <8qavh9d98idqt1m9edr15r0l5hf7al623h@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
>> ><johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:56:16 -0400, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >For plain Windows, try "w32tm /tz".
>> >
>> >>  In win2k I get:
>> >> 
>> >> " Time zone:  GMT Standard Time  GMT Daylight Time"
>> >
>> >Ok, which is it?
>> 
>>  I'm guessing that GMT Standard Time simply means the time zone. The
>> GMT Daylight Time looks odd, perhaps it'll change to "GMT Daylight
>> Saving Time" when the clocks go forward to BST (aka Bull Shit Time[1])
>> just after the spring equinox.
>
>Fine, so which part of this string do I feed to PHP's function
>date_timezone_set()? More generally, which part of the output of "w32tm
>/tz" do I use?
>
>> >Here under OS X I get "Europe/London" which is what I want.
>> 
>>  That's just an alias for GMT Standard Time.
>
>Alias or not, it's what I want. Here (and I'm guessing on any unix), I
>can do:
>
>cd /etc
>ls -la localtime
>
>and I get:
>
>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  33 20 Dec 22:58 localtime ->
>/usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/London
>
>so I get something predictable rather than the random shit I get using
>w32tm.

 Sorry if I came over as someone 'Who Gives a Shit'. I'm no great
expert in things *nix. I just thought I'd offer you what that command
returns in a win2k environment as an extra data point for you to
consider.

 Please "Don't Shoot the messenger"! Lighten up a little. :-)
-- 
Regards, J B Good

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#1532

In article <go41i990tf1fmptisnc3muo1jftn9k4g8g@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
<johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:37:46 +0000, Tim Streater
> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> >so I get something predictable rather than the random shit I get using
> >w32tm.
> 
>  Sorry if I came over as someone 'Who Gives a Shit'. I'm no great
> expert in things *nix. I just thought I'd offer you what that command
> returns in a win2k environment as an extra data point for you to
> consider.

:-)  Yeah, I do appreciate that, thanks. I did already try that under
win7 but came away defeated.

>  Please "Don't Shoot the messenger"! Lighten up a little. :-)

<innocent look> Isn't that what they're for?

-- 
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

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#1544

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:43:27 +0000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

>In article <go41i990tf1fmptisnc3muo1jftn9k4g8g@4ax.com>, Johny B Good
><johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:37:46 +0000, Tim Streater
>> <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> >so I get something predictable rather than the random shit I get using
>> >w32tm.
>> 
>>  Sorry if I came over as someone 'Who Gives a Shit'. I'm no great
>> expert in things *nix. I just thought I'd offer you what that command
>> returns in a win2k environment as an extra data point for you to
>> consider.
>
>:-)  Yeah, I do appreciate that, thanks. I did already try that under
>win7 but came away defeated.
>
>>  Please "Don't Shoot the messenger"! Lighten up a little. :-)
>
><innocent look> Isn't that what they're for?

 Yes, but with some discretion please. Wholesale slaughter just makes
you look bad. :-)
-- 
Regards, J B Good

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#1365

On 2014-03-07 21:35, john wrote:
> RS Wood wrote:
> 
>> Maybe you all are already aware of this.  In case you aren't:
>>
>> olduse.net is a real-time historical exhibit: a Usenet server that posts
>> whatever was posted thirty years ago, so you can watch things as they
> 
> That is pretty cool. Much respect the old-timers!

I much enjoyed reading some of the articles on amateur radio satellites
back in November: discussions of Oscar-10's packet mailbox tests,
transponder QSOs, analyses of the deployment collision (which would have
far-reaching effects on the mission), and initial prognoses. In those
days 50kg payloads to high elliptical orbits were still affordable. How
times have changed.

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#1358

RS Wood wrote: 

> olduse.net is a real-time historical exhibit: a Usenet server that posts 
> whatever was posted thirty years ago, so you can watch things as they 
> unfolded in the 80s. You can get to it at the web at http://olduse.net 
> but it's much more interesting to use a Usenet client to get to 
> nntp.olduse.net and enjoy it that way 


This is awesome, thanks for posting it! I've already added it to my newsreader. 
According to the FAQ on the website, you can post, but you'll have to wait 30 years 
for your message to show up. :-) 

-- 
I drive a '74 AMC Hornet in my dreams. Also, I really like cheese.
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/5306#comment-16628

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#1363

RS Wood post a link to http://www.olduse.net which is a replay in "real-time" 
of Usenet from 30 years ago. I did a little looking around and found net.unix-wizards, 
a newsgroup I had heard about but never really explored. Within, I found a post 
asking for a copy of the "infamous" HAKMEM document, another thing I'd heard 
stories about but had never seen. Anyway, it turns out that a copy of this document, 
along with all the MIT AI lab memos from 1959 onwards, are available online... a 
veritable treasure trove of old lore. (Maybe it's well-known, but I didn't know 
before this.) 

Anyway, here's a link to the archive, and one to the HAKMEM doc. Enjoy. 

archive - http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/5460/browse 
HAKMEM - http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/6086 

-- 
I drive a '74 AMC Hornet in my dreams. Also, I really like cheese.
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/5306#comment-16632

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