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Life after Windows 7

Started bySylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
First post2019-05-21 13:07 +1000
Last post2019-06-17 08:35 +0000
Articles 7 on this page of 27 — 15 participants

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  Life after Windows 7 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-05-21 13:07 +1000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2019-05-21 07:27 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-05-21 19:17 +1000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-05-21 11:09 +0100
      Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-29 18:19 +0100
        Re: Life after Windows 7 ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-05-29 21:19 -0500
          Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-30 17:24 +0100
            Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-06-02 19:11 +0100
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 10:14 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 "Dirk T. Verbeek" <dverbeek@xs4all.nl> - 2019-05-21 12:54 +0200
        Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 10:58 +0000
        Re: Life after Windows 7 kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-05-21 12:28 -0400
          Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-05-21 19:49 +0000
          Re: Life after Windows 7 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-05-22 22:30 -0400
          Re: Life after Windows 7 Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-07 20:54 +0000
            Re: Life after Windows 7 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-06-07 23:07 -0400
              Re: Life after Windows 7 Ryan Kavanagh <rkavanagh@cs.cmu.edu> - 2019-06-08 12:30 -0400
            Re: Life after Windows 7 kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-06-08 10:11 -0400
              Re: Life after Windows 7 Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-08 19:31 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-21 10:47 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-05-21 11:28 +0000
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> - 2019-05-21 08:43 -0400
    Re: Life after Windows 7 mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-29 18:16 +0100
    Re: Life after Windows 7 Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> - 2019-06-16 23:00 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> - 2019-06-16 23:18 +0000
        Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-17 08:40 +0000
      Re: Life after Windows 7 Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-17 08:35 +0000

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#18033

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2019-05-21 11:28 +0000
Message-ID<qc0ndi$uft$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#18024
Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
> without warning with updates.

Do these family members use desktops with screens and mice, or do they 
use tablets?  I'm presuming desktops, screens, mice, given that you 
imply they are still on W7.

If so, you'll probably first have to deal with the huge change in 
appearance in just going to W10.  Esp. if these family members are 
within the typical group that tends to be resistant to change in the 
first place and that tend to learn computer UI's by memorizing the 
physical positions of groups of pixels without understanding the 
underlying "request" they are presenting to the program they are using.

Nothing will look the same to them, and if they are members of that 
"change resistant" group, and have memorized physical positions of 
controls instead of understanding the underlining request, they will 
have a hard time adapting.  Which means they will likely be just as 
lost navigating around the "new look" of W10 as they were when they 
first encountered a computer.  And your task of hand-holding them 
through discovering where to poke will not be made any easier by the 
new "everything looks the same, and nothing has any contrast or 
separation from anything else" look of the UI.

The "it all looks the same, and has no contrast" look is largely 
related to the fact that MS seems to have decided that there seem to be 
only four colors in the world, #000000, #ffffff, #eeeeee, and #dddddd, 
and every UI highlight has to be done using only those four, and basic 
black must be avoided in almost all cases [1].  So one ends up with 
pale shades of white on pale shades of white that are almost identical 
where one used to have a clear window boundary, or a clear boundary 
around a button, or some such.  Those who have memorized the physical 
look of W7 (vs.  what the things on screen "do") will have quite a bit 
of difficulty making the switch.  Oh, and there are no longer any 
window borders around the sides or bottoms of windows.  Well..., they 
are there, but they are invisible borders around the edges that you 
only realize are present because the mouse pointer changes to one of 
the "resize arrow" pointers.  The "memorize the physical pixel 
positions" type users will have a hard time with those as well.

[1] meaning where one might have had a button with a label "save" and a 
    square or round border of one or two black pixels to make it look 
    "button like", instead with W10 one has the word "save" floating in 
    a sea of stark white (#ffffff) with a border of "slighly less 
    intense white" (#eeeeee or #dddddd).  Making the border all but 
    invisible without a perfectly tuned screen, perfect room lighting, 
    and nearly perfect vision.

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#18034

FromNyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net>
Date2019-05-21 08:43 -0400
Message-ID<qc0rqs$sjl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#18024
Sylvia Else wrote:

> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only
> eight months left before Windows 7 support ceases.
> 
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff
> in a VM for any programs that aren't supported under
> Linux. I already have several systems running Linux anyway
> (Fedora, for historical reasons).
> 
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family
> members, and I see Windows 10 in their futures, which
> probably means that I'll end up dealing with the issues
> that arise when its behaviour its modified without warning
> with updates.
> 
> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm
> just hoping for some reassurance that things won't be that
> bad.
> 
> Probably the wrong group for that.
> 
> Sylvia.
> 
> 
> 
I have XP on a partition on the desktop I use most, but only
use it for downloading Kindle books to Kindle for PC (since
amazon, among others will not do a Linux version) which I 
then import into Calibre for Linux. 95% of everything else
is done on Linux.

I do have Win7 and Win8.1 partitions on various laptops, but 
again, rarely use anything besides Linux, so Win10 has not 
darkened my door on any of my devices.

I've been warning people about just-say-no-to-Win10 since a
year before it hit, and have made it clear that if anyone
ignores this warning, they will get NO help from me unless it's
to move to a Linux distro.

The few who have ignored this warning have regretted their
decision, and one of them has happily migrated to Linux. He's
in his late 80s, and has found he prefers Linux.

A bit of backstory on that migration that might help. I had
previously sent him a bootable thumb drive with Puppy Linux
to play with. He liked that he could try it out without committing
to the change on his hard drive and got comfortable with the
environment.

After he became a victim of a Win10 download and install, he
wiped it and jumped into Linux with both feet, so to speak.

Long way of saying that perhaps you could created a few bootable
thumb drives with a well-behaved Linux distro to allow your
family/friends to give it a try before making the decision to
go to Win10 or to stay with Win7 with caution.

BTW my neighbor ended up buying a new desktop with Win10. She
ran into problems and ended up a victim of a scammer "help 
desk" from a phone number that was on the computer as delivered
from Best Buy. No idea how something like that got there, but
it cost her $250 before it was over, charged to her credit card.
She learned a very expensive lesson the hard way.

Nyssa, who at least was able to explain to the neighbor why she
should NOT give them more money when they tried calling her back
a few days later for more "help desk" assistance

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#18079

Frommm0fmf <none@invalid.com>
Date2019-05-29 18:16 +0100
Message-ID<qcmeoq$81c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#18024
On 21/05/2019 04:07, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up
> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified
> without warning with updates.
>
> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for
> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.
>
> Probably the wrong group for that.
>
> Sylvia.
>
>
>
It (Windows10) is shit but not as shit as you may have been led to 
believe. W10 running on the same hardware as W7 is notably faster at 
grpahics and disk stuff. You can defuse much of the phone home crap.

It's probably an easier support option for you than moving people to 
anything else. And from version 1903 you have more control about when 
upgrades get installed than before.

Using Mint, Debian, W7, W10 & Android..... they're all shit in different 
ways. We should all go back to punch cards and JCL.

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#18223

FromSteve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid>
Date2019-06-16 23:00 +0000
Message-ID<qe6hm5$sh0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#18024
On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>
> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>
> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
> without warning with updates.
>
> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.
>
> Probably the wrong group for that.
>
> Sylvia.
>
>
>
If you want an easy way to try linux, I can recommend linux mint.
I installed it recently on an old netbook and everything worked
straight out of the box, including wifi and even my usb HP all-in-one
laserprinter.  Personally I prefer more bare-bones linux versions
like slackware, but if you just want something for a quick try-out
with minimal configuration, then mint is a good one to try.
https://linuxmint.com/

-- 
  Gnd  -|o----|- Vcc      Hey computer, what's the weather in Sydney?
 trig  -| 555 |- dschrg   $> finger o:sydney@graph.no|tail -1|espeak
  o/p  -|     |- thrsh
  rst  -|-----|- cntrl    Steve555

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#18224

FromSteve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid>
Date2019-06-16 23:18 +0000
Message-ID<qe6ion$10mh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#18223
On 2019-06-16, Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>>
>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>>
>> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
>> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
>> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
>> without warning with updates.
>>
>> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
>> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.
>>
>> Probably the wrong group for that.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>>
>>
>>
> If you want an easy way to try linux, I can recommend linux mint.
> I installed it recently on an old netbook and everything worked
> straight out of the box, including wifi and even my usb HP all-in-one
> laserprinter.  Personally I prefer more bare-bones linux versions
> like slackware, but if you just want something for a quick try-out
> with minimal configuration, then mint is a good one to try.
> https://linuxmint.com/
>
If you do decide to try it, the Cinnamon desktop is the best one IMHO.
When I put this on a couple of weeks ago, it took probably less than half
an hour to install it and get it up and running.  Very easy :-)

-- 
  Gnd  -|o----|- Vcc      Hey computer, what's the weather in Sydney?
 trig  -| 555 |- dschrg   $> finger o:sydney@graph.no|tail -1|espeak
  o/p  -|     |- thrsh
  rst  -|-----|- cntrl    Steve555

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#18227

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2019-06-17 08:40 +0000
Message-ID<gmp1vtFnmg4U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#18224
On 2019-06-16, Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-06-16, Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
>>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>>>
>>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
>>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
>>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>>>
>>> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
>>> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
>>> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
>>> without warning with updates.
>>>
>>> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
>>> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.
>>>
>>> Probably the wrong group for that.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> If you want an easy way to try linux, I can recommend linux mint.
>> I installed it recently on an old netbook and everything worked
>> straight out of the box, including wifi and even my usb HP all-in-one
>> laserprinter.  Personally I prefer more bare-bones linux versions
>> like slackware, but if you just want something for a quick try-out
>> with minimal configuration, then mint is a good one to try.
>> https://linuxmint.com/
>>
> If you do decide to try it, the Cinnamon desktop is the best one IMHO.

Bot Cinnamon and MATE are broken in their own individual ways. I used
to use MATE but have switched to Cinnamon; TBH, they both irritate me,
but Cinnamon irritates me slight less.


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 22nd day of Confusion in the YOLD 3185
                  Rising above bedlam

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#18226

FromHuge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid>
Date2019-06-17 08:35 +0000
Message-ID<gmp1mqFnmg4U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#18223
On 2019-06-16, Steve555 <Steve555@reallybogus.nodomain.nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-05-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>> I knew the day was coming, and it seems there's now only eight months 
>> left before Windows 7 support ceases.
>>
>> I could probably switch to Linux, and run Windows 7 stuff in a VM for 
>> any programs that aren't supported under Linux. I already have several 
>> systems running Linux anyway (Fedora, for historical reasons).
>>
>> Alas, I don't think that's an option for my family members, and I see 
>> Windows 10 in their futures, which probably means that I'll end up 
>> dealing with the issues that arise when its behaviour its modified 
>> without warning with updates.
>>
>> Actually, I'm not sure why I'm posting this. Maybe I'm just hoping for 
>> some reassurance that things won't be that bad.
>>
>> Probably the wrong group for that.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>>
>>
>>
> If you want an easy way to try linux, I can recommend linux mint.

Seconded. I've been running it since Ubuntu went Unity (how many years
is that?) The UI contains a fair number of irritations (I have a list
somewhere, if anyone's interested) and (sadly) it uses systemd, but
generally speaking, it's OK. I wish they'd stop trying to make it more
like Windows, though; I run it because I don't like Windows.


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 22nd day of Confusion in the YOLD 3185
                  Rising above bedlam

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